I love it, I love it, i love it!

You really got to see this LOL

www.moveon.org...

I think that America is better than that too. Unfortonately it's not. Then again we as the people are here to change that. We can make a change in every way, any way we want. Yet it is the plague of ignorance that threatens our cause for freedom and justice. We are the bastion of that ideal, yet that ideal is not known to this generation of patriots. Many patriots today are blind to the injustice they know. They are even more blind in regards to their own hand in it. Does anyone cry out for justice anymore????

Really, I mean REAL JUSTICE. Is it not known that Nigeria and Columbia are states in civil chaos with wars in all spectrums of life. Is it not known that Nigeria is the worlds largest illegal drug exporter, bigger than Columbia and China. Is it not known that Nigeria has a diamond war??? That war has kidnapped, abused, and mind controlled child sex slaves fight a war to keep a ruthless and corrupt empire of global capitalism a thread on a string everyone wants to burn. The only thing we have to do is fight for freedom. Yet freedom is not known to those child sex slaves.

Columbia is a country no different. No freedoms exist there. Yet we spend large amounts of cash finacing a civil war between the people there. That very money is used to buy guns for drug barons and communists so than can fight the war. I wouldn't be suprised if we funded both sides of this war. Or should I say all sides. What people need to understand is that this war is killing our children. This war is a sponser of the drug trade. For if the war stopped then the money would stop. The money is mixed with drug money. The money needs to be seperated. What money??????

Our money. It is our money that corrupts and destroys freedom for the people of the third, second and first world. This is not because of America either. This is because of ignorance.

ITS SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO TRUE!!!!!

hummmm

Amen !

Originally posted by Abraham Virtue

Our money. It is our money that corrupts and destroys freedom for the people of the third, second and first world. This is not because of America either. This is because of ignorance.

i completely agree... Mr. Virtue, nothing is sadder than the waste of our money while our own children are ill-educated and starving and we sit around quoting the Bushies talking about folk that want to destroy us when our own ignorance is doing a hellva job of it. couldn't have said it better myself, cousin. yup.

You know what, Saph, I have some breaking news for you. We have public education in this nation that gives everyone a start. The fact that too much of the money is squandered by a combination of both incompetence and stupid programs with one objective and that is social reengineering is shameful (the problem not a conservative creation, mind you) but is not such a stumbling block so as to keep one who wants an education from getting it.
The ones who make the nation ignorant are the same ones that tell you you have freedom of expression, that tout the constitutionally mandated separation of church and state, and tell you that guns are bad and that the second amendment is the government's way of telling the government that the government can have weapons. These are the people that scream that it is a woman's right to murder an unborn baby, yet will allow you the microphone only if you free speech is politically correct. It isn't the "Bushies" that have intentions of destroying us, the ones that want to destroy us from the inside have been working on that for decades now, using both the media to attack the whole family (TV "amusement": A=without, muse=mind. As you are amused by the stupid programming, they alter your beliefs. Pure and simple brainwashing and we all volunteer for the treatment) and through the education system (Do you think it is by accident that the system has been stacked with liberalism? How else can they pervert the character of the human when it counts; at a young age. How else can they teach distorted history revisionism except in the education system, while at the same to teaching other garbage that shouldn't be near a child much less in a tax-funded school?) Why do you think they revile homeschooling and mock private schooling? They lose control.

The good news is that the message isn't getting through all the way. The vast majority see through the garbage and are aware that we have enemies and they do in fact want us dead, and all the liberal appeasement will bring us is more assaults while at the same time cost us the blood money they'd have us pay. Calling us Bushies won't change facts, and when the presidency changes, and, and I pray to God when it does it isn't a spineless liberal that takes the helm, my views won't change. If he is in accord with my views, I won't be a ----ie, I'll still be me.

Abraham Virtue, your knowledge and understanding of the Columbian struggle is woefully lacking, although I believe I've tried to explain a bit of it to you. But to clarify a little bit for you, even if the drug trade dried up, the struggle would still be going on there. FARC would still be killing innocent people, setting off car bombs, kidnapping and killing civilians and members of government alike, and they'd still put mortar rounds through church roofs on Sundays. I'm not going any farther on the issue than that, it'd be a waste of time as you are probably one of these that romanticizes the Communist struggle.
As far as the drug problem that is killing members of society, I have one answer for you on that; without a demand, there is no supply. Simple economics. The people that I've met that have died down there died because of our selfishness and demand for a stupid drug. Now they'll also be able to use U.S. funded equipment in their struggle against the communist terrorist guerrillas, and for that I'm grateful. I hear a greated number of the filthy animals, a good many aren't even Columbian but are from neighboring countries, have been waxed! Not enough, though. Too many good people have died, I want all of FARC and their supporters dead.

One more thing while I'm wound up. I think the government should put a darned drum of coc aine and a drum of heroine on every street corner, shoot, even supply needles and spoons and whatever tool the user might need. You want it? Use all you can inject or snort. You die? You go to the dump if no family member will claim you. You need medical assistance? Sure, if you have the wherewithall to pay for it, otherwise no taxpayer will be burdened by your stupidity.
Maybe a little intellectual evolution is necessary. Quit blaming the other guy, place the blame squarely where it belongs- on ourselves.

What makes you think I have communist leanings???

Also my knowledge of Columbia is still intact, for you never said why it wasn't. I never said that the drugs were the reason people die under the FARC's hand. Yet you implied that I did. Please be more clear Thomas. I don't see how you can cast blame on my statements.

Originally posted by Abraham Virtue
I think that America is better than that too. Unfortonately it's not. Then again we as the people are here to change that. We can make a change in every way, any way we want. Yet it is the plague of ignorance that threatens our cause for freedom and justice. We are the bastion of that ideal, yet that ideal is not known to this generation of patriots. Many patriots today are blind to the injustice they know. They are even more blind in regards to their own hand in it. Does anyone cry out for justice anymore????

Really, I mean REAL JUSTICE. Is it not known that Nigeria and Columbia are states in civil chaos with wars in all spectrums of life. Is it not known that Nigeria is the worlds largest illegal drug exporter, bigger than Columbia and China. Is it not known that Nigeria has a diamond war??? That war has kidnapped, abused, and mind controlled child sex slaves fight a war to keep a ruthless and corrupt empire of global capitalism a thread on a string everyone wants to burn. The only thing we have to do is fight for freedom. Yet freedom is not known to those child sex slaves.

Columbia is a country no different. No freedoms exist there. Yet we spend large amounts of cash finacing a civil war between the people there. That very money is used to buy guns for drug barons and communists so than can fight the war. I wouldn't be suprised if we funded both sides of this war. Or should I say all sides. What people need to understand is that this war is killing our children. This war is a sponser of the drug trade. For if the war stopped then the money would stop. The money is mixed with drug money. The money needs to be seperated. What money??????

Our money. It is our money that corrupts and destroys freedom for the people of the third, second and first world. This is not because of America either. This is because of ignorance.

Very good speech

That is not war between ideals of conservative democratic hippie or whatever u think, this is a question of the rest of the world, forget all the BS about useless politics ideals to brainwash population, think about the ppl in all these countries, suffering all this, you don;t care really about it, just wanna see something positive on massacres in countrys is really ignorant...

Honestly? I don't know, A-V. I just read another post of yours on another thread that gave me reaason to believe your point was in another direction.
Let me reread and see what you said is different than what I said I thought you wanted me to think I was to believe you were thinking!

A-V, I was very wrong, if I think what you were saying is what you meant to say. I wish I could delete my post and erase it, but I think its better to leave monuments of personal stupidity around for reminders than monuments to greatness!

Columbia does have freedom there, at least that is what the government wants for the people, and the people want it as well. The problem is that they are in the same boat as Israel; an evening at a disco could mean a fiery death because of terrorists.

Do we fund both sides? I doubt it as the Columbian cartels, I believe, are not thoses who are allowed the monopoly. Of course the East India Company, who was given that right to the monopoly by the very first American Congress, has since changed names and has become lost in the shuffle of the shell game, might have bought out the cartels and be controlling the efforts down there. I doubt it, though, as FARC gets revenue from mutual cooperation with the drug cartel.

TC: I hate to break it to you...but, free education doesn't mean good education. in the urban areas there is a very visible disparity in the level of education and quality of education one gets through public schooling. while, private funds are pushed through rich school to build additions to handle the expanding population most urban public schools don't have proper funding and as it is in Indy, IPS, they are required to compensate these same suburban (rich) schools for allowing kids to be bussed from urban areas. Leaving more than 70% of urban kids behind because of the lack of funding for new books and expansions while the suburban schools have federal, local, and private funding plus the extras they recieve from the bussing programs.

it's fine to blame all of the ills in this society on the liberals. but they are not the only ones sitting up on captial hill allowing things to rot. and we could blame clinton as much as we could blame the current president for all the ills in this society. but i rather not play the blame game i'd rather folk call ignorance-ignorance and accept the fact that our government is no longer for the people and it never was intended to be for all the people anyway.

i refuse to accept your views on what is and isn't moral and i refuse to accept any government that pretends they can dictate what is or isn't moral in my life. who are you to tell anyone what they can or can't do. you are just a man...like every other man no greater or lesser because you pick a side. specially because both are evil...no better or worse. please step down off your high horse we are tired of smelling your ass. we are all equal no one is immoral because your list says so. damn your list! and mind your own business.

still heart you though...hmmm, that was harsh but oh well.

Everyone here loves to hear your opinions and personally I find your views appealing, but you must curb the personal issues on not personal topics. This is about the US and it's image not about you and Thomas. If you have something to say to Thomas USU him. He will respond reasonably and tactly.

y are you scolding me? he mentioned the degradation of the US (mainly abortion) and i responded to the things he said. i don't think i was out of line...if i was sorry but i stayed on topic. and you could have u2u'd me with ur objection so now you are guilty of the same thing you have just accused me of.

[Edited on 19-4-2003 by Saphronia]

Oh, baby, I love it when you play rough!!

I have a little more bit of info for you, morality isn't subjective and it isn't something you can create out of thin air. It is something that you either accept or don't. Otherwise there is nothing but confusion and hipocrisy. For example, I hear that guy out in California has been arrested for the murders of both his wife and his unborn son! While I personally agree with this (that it is murder, not that he did it. I don't have the facts to make that judgement), I find amazement with the fact that the government can hit him with two counts. Why? Is it because he doesn't have a liecense to kill like an abortionist does? See the moral dilemma? (Pardon the pun)

An example of it being what you want it to be:

About 10 years ago I was a correctional officer at a prison here in Alabama. I worked second shift and was a full time college student during the day (I except no excuses, so quit bothering. Nothing was handed to me and I haven't turned to selling drugs or armed robbery for a living). One day while taking over my open-dorm wing of 66 inmates, I walked past a goup of black inmates huddled in a circle of about 20, and I heard a voice talking about down with whitey, the white man is keeping us down and all that type of stuff. The voice was very familiar, so I waded into the crowd to see the speaker. I recognized him and called him by name. A couple seconds later a big smile came across his face and he called out to m e by my first name, in an uncertain manner. I corrected him that I am officer ******* now and he is inamte *****. I then Iasked him a series of questions, "didn't we go to elementary school together?", ".... Junior High together....." "same school books, same teachers, same meals, ....."etc. All the answers were of the affirmative nature, including "highschool", at which time I reminded him that he dropped out, sold and did drugs and became an imprisoned loser, while I graduated the same public education he could have, then joined the same military he could have and was then attending the same university he could have, but he, not anyone else, made the stupid decisions that led him to prison.

I finished my mini-sermon with,"I can't speak about any of these other guys in your little circle-jerk, here, but as for you, nobody but you held you down, so I don't want to here another stupid word about anyone holding you down while we're in the same prison" He hung his head down, the rest of the crowd went a bit quiet (not the big fraccus I was expecting), and I went about patroling the dorm.

There is no way that we can all be given equal footing in life. Its just not that way. Some are going to have a better start, some better education, some better looks, etc. But we were given the right to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness by the same One who set down the moral standard to which you will or won't recognize and attempt to follow. What that means is you have the opportunity to succeed. I know people who had a better start in life that would love to have my life, the one that I had to work for, and I know people who didn't have nearly the start I did yet have far exceeded me. No excuses. Responsibility. Evryone needs to take it and drive on. The old saying is life's hard but its fair. I say its hard and not fair, get over it. Get a helmet.

TC: i wish it were that simple. it's not that black and white. sure folk have choices and no one is saying any different. all i'm saying is the system is set up in such a manner that folk fail. and often times when those few reach the college level they come ill-equiped to handle the pressure of college class work because of the disparity in the type of education they recieved.

as for the ONE, who is to say your ONE is the ONE for me and if he isn't why should i be forced to live by his rules. it's not the function of government to decide what my moral code should be. there are things that are illegal in this society and those thing are clear cut wrongs but when government tries to step into folk personal choices that's going too far. have your morals; teach them to your children but don't tell me what my morals should be and who i should serve as my higher power. if we have rules/laws based on a specific religion or a specific religions moral code of ethics then we are no longer the people ruled by the people; we become the people ruled by A people. we are already there.

This dispute between you and Thomas could have been avoided if you had U2Ued him. Now the gate is open and the wind is blowing in. I am only trying to keep peace and in order in this topic. I am not trying to get on your nerves, even though I already have. Yet it is a matter you must deal with, because it is a personality issue and you need to be more personal with yourself and not so personal. You See?

Ok, first of all your all wrong. Colombia is the name of the country in South America, not Columbia. Columbia is a name of many American cities.

And the Colombian government was corrupt, until recently of course with the election of the new president. The previous president was a drug trafficer himself.

Thomas, although I agree with you that people, no matter what color should blame themselves for their mishaps your slightly wrong. For black people, there will always be one thing when non blacks look at blacks and that is the "Oh, your black attitude". Not that that's an exuse, but it's a part of our society unfortunately.

"What do you call a white man with a PH.d in Psychology? A psychologist

What do you call a black man with a Ph.d in Psychology? A 'n-word'."

And that prison inmate did know what he was talking about. He was talking about an era when the blacks were less than nothing. Yea, we had won the civil war and we were "free," free from the cotton fields that's what. Blacks didnt know what true freedom was until men like Marcus Garvey and Malcolm X came along.

So after the civil war, blacks were still second class citizens, and A LOT were forced to live in the projects and low income housing because they just didnt have any jobs, which brings us today where blacks are still in the housing projects. So a little black kid is poor as hell he's forced to sell the crack in the streets to make ends meet. He doesnt sell crack because he wants to, but he sells it because it's his only way to make the desparate dollar. That's what that prison inmate was talking about.

[Edited on 4-19-2003 by Illmatic67]

[Edited on 4-20-2003 by Illmatic67]

Thomas does well to direct our attention towards the difference �not merely of degree, but of essence �between legality/criminality and (im)morality. The former reflects the sovereignty of the state; the latter should reflect the sovereignty of the individual conscience. Increasingly, the latter is becoming simply an aspect of the former. Our masters build our consciences for us.
The fact, for example, that the United Kingdom does not have a death penalty, whereas the United States does, is not � in my opinion � an indicator of diametrically opposed views on the part of the populations thereof, with regard either to the morality of murder, or of retribution on an �eye for an eye� level. It is simply a matter of government.
The electorates of both nations have been well-attuned for more than half a century (I have full universal suffrage in mind, before the Sons and Daughters of Driveldom are moved to intrude) of a bipartisan approach to politics and a world of black and white with no intervening shades. There is no doubt that this has had an impact on ethical thinking leading to a level of debate, all too often, that a 5th Century BC Athenian would have found laughable.
Yet let us not forget that those who most prominently conduct this �debate� are the media hacks and political wannabe�s who by and large serve Mammon, their own self-interest, and the wishes of their political and corporate masters. They give us the bread and circuses of the new Caesars.
In some sense - �deep down� for want of a more precise phrase � many of us know that, ethically, that is not how the world is. Yet, having so long allowed our masters and the rivals for that mastery, to do our collective thinking for us, we are at risk of entirely forgetting how to do individual thinking.
This inability to accept that we have, perhaps to an irretrievable degree, surrendered our individualism to a spurious collectivism is to be seen also in much of the quibbling about �public� services. The endless cry is for �them� to do something: if they do not, we do not address the issues, we merely vote in the other �them�. It was so with supporters of the chariot teams 2,000 years ago in Imperial Rome.
We treasure our largely illusory personal freedoms while neglecting to observe that the essence of successful collectivism is the omnipotent State. And, the successful State must of necessity tend to the left in all matters: the State can only be an entity if the people are essentially reduced to crowds, factions, classes, parties, political and economic abstracts. This is the core of dialectical materialism and indeed of any socialistic thinking: the individual is subsumed in some notion called �society�.
Iron Curtain Europe had mass provision of health and education that was generally far superior to the mass provision (I speak of �mass� �not the private sectors where money, not need or appropriateness, is the key). Now they have discovered �liberal� democracy and unemployment and second-rate mass provision. We of the West will probably say, or rather, our masters will say on what they will insist is our behalf, that this is a beneficial trade.
An efficient state is incompatible with individuality and vice versa. The choice in the West is largely between accepting the limitations of individualism, or turning off the drivel-spigot of �liberalism� and embracing collectivism.