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Britain’s battle plan for war with Iran

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posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 05:36 PM
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reply to post by LeBombDiggity
 


You are either incedibly stupid or hell bent determined to provoke people.

You arrogantly insist upon calling it the 'English Navy' when you know it's correct name and how inaccurate and insulting it is.

Nearly every single post I can recall you making, in any thread, has an anti-English slant to it.

The simple fact is we are not under any sort of realistic threat and as such we can afford to leave our domestic shores slightly unattended.
That is unless your countrymen plan yet another surreptitious attack, which in all seriousness I very much doubt.

And as many others have pointed out, there is very little credebility in the source and as such the whole thread is based on dubious conjecture.

I have no desire to report you to anyone, I only wish that you discuss the topic at hand and without pursuing some sort of biased and bigotted anti-English agenda.




posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 05:42 PM
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reply to post by LeBombDiggity
 


By "Anti French Troll Gang" do you mean every person Born on the Isle of Avalon since 1066 who was not part of Bill the Bastards group!??

If so then yes! all 70 million of us> (Including the Scots) hehehe

And yes I do know what the two finger gesture means, do you?



posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 05:46 PM
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reply to post by LeBombDiggity
 


And another thing. Why oh why do you insist on calling rhe Falkland the Isles Moulooonesesssess or whatever. YOu are aware that the "claim" to those is from a SPANISH speaking nations. At least if you are going to take sides then use the right wording if you want to be "rude"

Se llaman Las Islas Malvinas carbron!! pinches gueyes ranas de los Frances! eso es como te llamamos en Mexico!



posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by rigel4


Well there is that Russian aircraft carrier parked off Scotland, perhaps the Russians will let us lend it for a bit


The Kuznetsov is back in home port as of 16 February.

rusnavy.com...



posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 06:07 PM
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Only one option remains for peace — if the vast majority of Iranian people can rise up and overthrow their tyrannical leaders.


hmmm..where have I heard this before?



posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 07:22 PM
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Originally posted by TrueInstinct
You buy the Sun if you like exaggerated stories.

For example, the MOD might say to the Sun, 'We've had plans drawn for a conflict with Iran for years'.

Next day in the Sun 'War with Iran this year'.

The sad thing is, the people that buy this paper actually believe most of the rubbish they read in it. You're better off reading the Daily Mail, and that's saying something...
edit on 26-2-2012 by TrueInstinct because: (no reason given)


That is an almost exact description of another Murdoch media outlet here in the states... It's nice to know he's consistent.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 05:42 AM
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Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
Ok then, let's see where this navy of yours is Stumason. Now this is based on my best trawl of the net for current locations.


Ok, let's....

Destroyers/Frigates

HMS Argyll - Hormuz CORRECT- but it is due to be relieved
HMS Lancaster - REFIT WRONG - Has completed it's refit and is undergoing sea trials
HMS Iron Duke - REFIT WRONG - She is actually performing crew training excercises and is due to go in for a slight refit this year, although it isn't a full one
HMS Somerset - Mount of Tariq WRONG - arrived in Portsmouth on Saturday
HMS Monmouth - England CORRECT - Bound to happen at some point
HMS Montrose - South Africa CORRECT
Westminster - Outbound to Hormuz Actually in Bahrain as we speak
Northumberland - REFIT CORRECT - But this will be complete by years end
Richmond - REFIT CORRECT - But due to complete by the end of the Summer
Sutherland - England CORRECT - But is performing a training role for new sepcialists
Kent - England WRONG - Actually undergoing refit and Sea Trials
Portland - REFIT CORRECT - But due back in November
Saint Albans - HormuzCORRECT - But due back later this year

Daring - Hormuz
Dauntless - I deleted you deliberately insulting reference to the Falklands.
Diamond - Sea Trials

You forgot HMS Liverpool, which although due for decommision in March is still very much an active Destroyer, then there is HMS Edinburgh and HMS York, two more Destroyers very much in active service.


Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
Which means at BEST there are four destroyers/frigates in active service currently protecting English waters, does it not ? Or do you count ships in drydock as part of your total ?


Nope, what you'll find with accurate info rather than what you can glean of Wiki is that, within UK waters, we have 7 ships (3 Destroyers and 4 Frigates) active at this very moment. Not to mention that HMS Invincible is still actually in service and sea worthy (although in Denmark at the moment), so can be used as a helo or STOVL carrier. Then there are the varied SSN's we have which, I have no doubt, we have a couple within a few days sailing of the UK.


Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
Well, my point was that there isn't much to defend england with.

Stumason instinctively launched into attack mode and I've proven him wrong.


No, actually, what you did was provoke me into being a smart and use my rather extensive contacts and knowledge of the UK Forces to correct you.

AND ONCE AGAIN, IT ISN'T ENGLANDS NAVY AND ISN'T THERE SOLELY FOR ENGLISH WATERS


Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
In naval terms, there really isn't much on station to defend england with, is there ?


In naval terms, the few ships we have in UK waters is larger than most navies on the planet. Just who is this enemy we need to defend from? The RN is one of the largest and most advanced Fleets on the planet, only dwarfed in size by the USN and is pretty much the same size (and certainly more advanced than) as the Chinese PLAN.

reply to post by LeBombDiggity
 


There is no difference between English and Scottish waters as far as the UK and the RN is concerned. The fact you are trying to create a split is testament to your already obvious pro-Scottish and anti-English rehtoric you spout regularly. In fact, you know the difference and do it deliberately.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 06:31 AM
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im on a poor net connection right now unfort. But i'll say this. Even on your own figures, stumason, you've passed from having s battlefleet worthyof jutlandto seven destroyers in the space of one psge. Si i think u owe me an apology for yournearlier rubbish stats. And, btw your carrier invincible has been cut up for razor blades so still youre wrong. As to the issue if maritime borders, freeborn raised that not i. I reply moresubstantively when im om net at home instead of in rainstorm on my phone



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 07:14 AM
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Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
im on a poor net connection right now unfort. But i'll say this. Even on your own figures, stumason, you've passed from having s battlefleet worthyof jutlandto seven destroyers in the space of one psge.


I have not "passed from" anything. I have always maintained the same Naval strength figures when anyone has asked or otherwise made a tit of themselves.

As it stands today, we have the worlds 2nd or 3rd largest Navy and are one of only 3 Navies in the world with true blue water capability. The RN is bigger than the pathetic French Navy at any rate!

Also, no one has Battelships or Battlecrusiers anymore, so referring to Jutland is like asking why the army no longer uses single bolt action Winchester rifles or MkIV tanks.

Pointless.


Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
Si i think u owe me an apology for yournearlier rubbish stats.


What rubbish stats? Do enlighten me what I got wrong. If your hinting at the fact I included ships in refit, that is such a pedantic thing to be demanding an apology over it speaks volumes of you. Ships in refit are still part of the Fleet, deployable or not. As it stands, you still got your retort wrong when claiming ships were in refit when they weren;t and claiming ships were elsewhere when they are actually in the UK.

You posed a question asking what ships we have remaining after sending some to the Gulf, I have not once but twice pointed out the fact you haven't really got a clue and are merely trying to get some anti-English crap out, again.


Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
And, btw your carrier invincible has been cut up for razor blades so still youre wrong.


I meant HMS Illustrious, so apologies for that typo, I was trying to do work while half-heartedly making you look like a melon. Of course, Illustrious is an Invinceable class, hence why I typed that. I was looking at photos of the bloody ship with it's name on it and still typed the wrong one!


Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
As to the issue if maritime borders, freeborn raised that not i. I reply moresubstantively when im om net at home instead of in rainstorm on my phone


No, actually, look back. You were the first to constantly refer not only to the RN as the English Navy, but also say "english waters", well before Freeborn corrected you on it. If you cannot even get your own comments correct, what hope have you of getting anything else right?



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 08:04 AM
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reply to post by LeBombDiggity
 


You aren't very good at this are you?



As to the issue if maritime borders, freeborn raised that not i. I reply moresubstantively when im om net at home instead of in rainstorm on my phone


You first mention 'English waters' here
www.abovetopsecret.com...
And then 'SCOTTISH waters' here
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Both before I mentioned anything about territorial waters.

Both are inaccurate and don't exist, there are only UK Territorial waters as I previously explained to you.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by LeBombDiggity
 


You aren't very good at this are you?



As to the issue if maritime borders, freeborn raised that not i. I reply moresubstantively when im om net at home instead of in rainstorm on my phone


You first mention 'English waters' here
www.abovetopsecret.com...
And then 'SCOTTISH waters' here
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Both before I mentioned anything about territorial waters.

Both are inaccurate and don't exist, there are only UK Territorial waters as I previously explained to you.


Dunno how you have the patience educating him, it's like teaching George bush maths.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 11:59 AM
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reply to post by stumason
 


My question was what ships were left to defend England with. You quoted a veritable armada. You did that to impress everyone with England's power. No doubt you love your country. And you want to ingratiate yourself with the largely American contributors on here. Lots of stars.

But I think it's reasonable for me to point out that you can't defend your nation with ships in refit, or those placed in a state of extended readiness, as the propellerless, rudderless and engine-part-less Invincible was before she was sold for cutting up.

You think ships like that count towards your immediate defence needs. Well I don't. Because until such time as those refit ships are made seaworthy, crewed, fuelled and armed they're of no immediate value.

So our opinions differ. You see that as anti English. Hey diddly dee.

As to Freeborn and his wackaday outing to the issue of Scottish waters, English waters ... I didn't raise this as an issue at all.

I really didn't.

That's because I genuinely don't consider it an issue. The sea of France is French, the sea off Scotland is Scottish, off England is English etc etc (and that's defined by orders of Parliament as part of the Scottish constitutional/home rule settlement). You lot seem to think it's British seas, policed by Her Majesty on some romantic golden barge with a union jack on the flagstaff, with HMS Victory and half a hundred museum ships, commissioned, de-commissioned rustbuckets, ghost ships forming the escorting fleet.

Class A barmy bonkers. Your naval glory glory days are long gone.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 12:05 PM
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reply to post by LeBombDiggity
 


You're an idiot. British seas defenceless? What bout the RAF? They're capable of sinking ships, what bout our subs? Our land to sea missiles?

And who the heck is going to attack Britain? If Russia attack, then there'd be #loads of sanctions on them which would cripple their economy. China, we've just made deals with them and are trading with them (plus sanctions would cripple their economy).

Well France certainly wont after the announcement of a JOINT HQ between UK and France. The Arab states couldn't touch our shores. Argentina? No chance.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by Krono
 


The reason you NEED a French naval alliance, better maritime links with OTAN etc is exactly BECAUSE your navy is overstretched.

Can you not see that ?

It's not anti English to say that. You need a bigger navy. Many English people say that.

Why do you SO object to someone from abroad telling you that.

I know you're all defensive on the subject because you're all so hostile to me.

So you know I'm right. And because I'm French, it hurts you that much more.

Well get over that, seriously. And build yourself a bigger navy.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 12:17 PM
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Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
My question was what ships were left to defend England with. You quoted a veritable armada. You did that to impress everyone with England's power.


Dude, compared to 90% of the worlds navies, 7 Frigates and Destroyers actively available within UK Waters is a veritable Armada! And on top of those 7 ships, you can count SSN's, SSBN's, a Helicopter carrier, assault ships which can also double as helo carriers and the Illustrious that, despite not having Harriers, is still very much an active ship and can carry helo's as well.

You're painting a picture of a delapidated, second rate junk Navy, when in actual fact it is one of the most powerful forces on the worlds oceans today and only set to become ecven more [powerful by the end of the decade with the T45's being completed, the Astutes being completed and the new Frigate replacement programme due to deliver new ships starting in 2020.

Find me another nation on Earth (that isn't the US) that could even touch that amount of hardware. This isn't about national pride, but simple fact.

At any rate, this argument is over the defence of our home waters from some nebulous and unideitifed fictitious enemy. You also seem to be blissfully ignorant that any nation stupid enough to attack the UK (at any time) would feel the wroth of the entirety of NATO, which is simply another league above any other military power on this planet.


Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
No doubt you love your country. And you want to ingratiate yourself with the largely American contributors on here. Lots of stars.


Not at all, not at all. If you even paid a cursory amount of attention to my posting (you must have some sense as we have crossed swords before) you would know I have absolutley zero desire to suck up to any American.


Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
But I think it's reasonable for me to point out that you can't defend your nation with ships in refit, or those placed in a state of extended readiness, as the propellerless, rudderless and engine-part-less Invincible was before she was sold for cutting up.


Not sure why you bring up the Invinceable, we know it's scrap. Again though, with the ships that are not in refit we still outclass every navy on the planet bar the US. I would also ask again that what exactly are we expected to defend from that the over a dozen active warships and submarines near the UK would not be enough?


Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
You think ships like that count towards your immediate defence needs.


No, but they do not take long to get to sea if needed, pour example, HMS Hermes was already undergoing mothballing and had to be refit at sea when sailing to the Falklands in 1982!


Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
Well I don't. Because until such time as those refit ships are made seaworthy, crewed, fuelled and armed they're of no immediate value.


As pointed out above, if needed (and depending on the state of the ship when this "crisis" happens), it can only be a matter of days before a ship "in refit" can be put to Sea. So not counting them is far more dangerous for any potential foe than counting them.


Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
So our opinions differ. You see that as anti English. Hey diddly dee.


No, what I and others see as anti-English is the tone, the little things you say to deliberately cause a response and your blatant history of anti-english posts in many other threads. Plus, you're French so isn't it natural for you guys to hate us? It's in your genes isn't it



Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
As to Freeborn and his wackaday outing to the issue of Scottish waters, English waters ... I didn't raise this as an issue at all.


You were the first to mention it and when corrected, you argued the point, so yes, you were the first to raise it. The Royal Navu is the Navy of the UK, ergo, it defends the entirety of UK waters. Also, as part of the devolution, defence matters were not devolved and are the responsibility of the UK Government, so again, it is pointless saying English waters or Scottish waters as we are not two seperate countries.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 12:23 PM
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reply to post by LeBombDiggity
 


You're right, we need a bigger navy, heck a bigger army. But I dunno if you've noticed but we have a clueless prime minister who has ruined the economy and weakened our forces.

P.s I have no issues with the French and you're right our armed forces ARE overstretched.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 12:27 PM
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reply to post by LeBombDiggity
 


We may need a few extra ships (and we are building new ships) but the UK's defence stance is to be able to project power and deploy a brigade sized force at short notice anywhere in the world, or a division sized force for short duration campaigns, almost always as part of a coalition (NATO mainly)...

However, we simply do not need a massive Navy as we are not about to be blockaded or invaded by the French or Germans or Spanish (quite the contrary, they would assist us in any attack on our country) who were the main reasons why we built a huge navy in the 18th and 19th centuries.

Post WW2 and the winding up of the Empire negated the need for a massive fleet to protect it and we re-focussed the fleet on ASW ops in the GIUK gap during the cold war, while the US took the lead in the expeditionary role. As it stands, the UK is the best ASW Navy on the planet and I can tell you stories, such as how the HMS Iron Duke managed to "kill" 2 US Destroyers and one of their SSN's in an exercise, for example, or expanding to the RAF, how 2 F-15s (the most proven combat aircraft in the world) got the jump on a Typhoon over Cumbria, yet ended up spanked.

Since the end of the Cold War, we are reconfiguring the Navy back to an expeditionary force, which is consistent with our defence posture, and one which will work as part of a coalition. We simply do not need a Grand Fleet of hundreds of ships (we have almost 90 anyway), as the combined might of NATO with our own Navy is enough to make sure we are pretty much the safest place on earth.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 12:29 PM
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reply to post by stumason
 


That's genuinely weak, Stumason, weak as.

Because it gives the impression you are content with the naval cutbacks. Same with Freeborn and the minor English (and Welsh) echoes here who add to the merriment. That's a shame. Because I don't think you're living happily with your small naval presence really, are you ?

"There's no threat to Britain" ... "Who can touch us ?"

You know, I love the English language. Todays word is hubris. ... over the top and unwarranted pride, loss of reality. That's how you're coming over.

And that's a shame.

Because instead, you could just say that this Frenchie's called it right.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 12:31 PM
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reply to post by Krono
 


Don't believe the hype. the Army is configured to maintain a combat Brigade in theatre indefinately. They are not "overstretched" now they have left Iraq.

What you forget is the military always complains it never has enough money (the Pentagon complains it doesn't get enough!!!) AND we built the worlds largest Empire with an Army smaller than the one we have today!

The forces are going through a reconfiguration and, trust me, come 2020 and the end of the Afghan campaign, serving members of the Forces will once again be bored and complaning of having nothing to do, much like they did for most of the 1990's! But they'll still complain they don't have enough money, men or equipment!



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 12:33 PM
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I'm afraid on that note I have to cut this evening short already. I'm sorry.

And no, I'm not running away in the best tradition of my nation *sigh*

Instead I have parents night to attend.



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