P. Diddy proclaims "black power" on national TV. Was it racist?

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


(I'm going to answer your edit here, easier to keep the discussion clear)

And Tif..no offense...but you are just another European that seem to have a wildly different opinion of race relations than most in the United States do.

I'm not offended at all,you know me enough to understand that I make a clear difference between a debate and a personal attack.

But yes, I do agree with that statement. European people have a very different stand on racism than the one that exists within the US.

I just think you have a different understanding of race relations...you probably don't have family or friends that went through the civil rights era...and you may not realize that there are still unique struggles that minorities go through in the United States.

The reason why europeans have a different stand on racism issues it's because we already went down that road before. First because most european countries have a terrible conscience sheet regarding racist actions, and because since Europe is filled with lots of different ethnic groups, we had to learn how to live next door to each-other.

Case in point being Germany. The Germans were terribly racist during the Nazi regime, and they had "their reasons" (Hitler used a nationalistic pride and sense of superiority to pump people up to the fight and segregation).

Germans had to learn how to accept other people, if they didn't want to be left out of modern Europe. That's why you have Turkish communities in Germany, for instance.

And that's the lesson america needs to learn. You don't need to like the people next to you to respect them. That's why I used those quotes. It's not about color, nor arguments. It's about people dealing with the problems with a reasonable and sane mind.

It's exactly like he said. If people continue to argue over racism, people will pick sides, and if people pick sides, separation will continue to exist.

And yes, I have had family in situations where racism existed.

I actually had family that fought during the Portuguese colonial war in Africa. It was during the dictatorship (that ended in 1974), and during that time, the dictatorship regime portrayed the same kind of thought of the nazi. That these african people were inferior, and all that crap.

Well, people got tired of it and saw that the reasons that made them apart didn't really existed.

We had to embrace our mistakes during the slavery era, and we had to be responsible for what we've done in the past, so we could build a better future.

That's why you see europeans having such a strong stand on respect and balance between ethnic groups. Because we already got the lesson that it is all useless, and only brings pain. To all sides.

If you listen to people from the US on ATS...no...you wouldn't know this either...because a lot of ATSers think "whites" are the current day "victims"...even though every statistic proves that wrong.

I don't think white people are victims of racial segregation. I think that's just stupid. And I also don't think black people are victims. They were, like many other ethnic groups were victims.

Like I continue to portray, I think that while people make sure there is a "victim" and a "guilty side", the discussion will go on, people will still pick sides, and this useless and hurtful debate will continue.

Regards

reply to post by Tifozi


im sorry , but as a european do you feel qualified to speak on race relations in america? Because it surely seems as though you're not trying to learn anything.

For instance, i can only guess the race relations from what I hear and read. You say everyone respects each other there, can you provide insight on:

"The day after Obama's victory, a leading Austrian television journalist said on camera that he "wouldn't want the Western world to be directed by a black man." A Polish lawmaker stood up in Parliament and called the election result "the end of the white man's civilization."


"Some racist comments have come from people who have expressed such views before. "Africa Conquers the White House," read a headline on the Web site of the National Democratic Party of Germany, a political party that sympathizes with neo-Nazi groups. In an accompanying article, Jürgen Gansel, a party leader and an elected lawmaker in the German state of Saxony, blamed Obama's victory on "the American alliance of Jews and Negroes." "

"On 15 October 2011, Luis Suárez was accused of racially abusing Patrice Evra,[93] and the English Football Association opened up an investigation into the incident.[93] On 16 November, the FA announced they would be charging Suárez, while his club, Liverpool, announced support for their player.[94] On 20 December, the FA concluded a seven-day hearing and fined Suárez £40,000 fine and banned him for eight matches for racially abusing Evra."


I'm not from Europe so..I don't claim to be an authority. Please enlighten.

Ah, the crutch of a disparaged people, hobbled by their own perceptions of inequality they NEED the crutch to walk like the privileged whites. Or, so it seems.
I am reminded of the football team at my predominantly white college. The team is predominately black. I wonder why they have so many black players. Since this is a competitive sport, and coaches can lose their jobs for losing, I think it must be because these black players have outperformed the others that didn't make the team, white, or even other blacks! Gasp!
Those that see racism in statistics can see racism in virtually any statement you could utter. They are looking for evidence of racism, and they will find something they will call this "evidence", because they have foregone conclusions that it exists.
They are right, racism does exist. Racism is alive and well, thanks to a small percentage of bigots that seek to benefit from the dialogue. These bigots are multi-colored, bigots are defined by their words and actions, not by color.
As a business owner, I can assure you that businessmen and women want the very best employee they can afford to hire, and if they are choosing based upon skin color they are making themselves LESS competitive. Period. Does it happen? Probably, on occasion for whatever reason. Perhaps fear. Perhaps ignorance. But these traits are not limited to whites. To pretend they are is, yes, RACIST.

reply to post by femalepharoe

im sorry , but as a european do you feel qualified to speak on race relations in america? Because it surely seems as though you're not trying to learn anything.

I'm not going to address your posts anymore, because you clearly don't understand what a public forum is for.

I'm qualified to speak of the things in my life, my experiences and my opinions. I'm qualified to speak on my behalf, and I'm entitled to have an opinion.

And that's what I'm referring to here. My opinion, my point of view.

And instead of judging me saying that "I'm not trying to learn anything", you should consider actually learning from my point of view, instead of continuously attacking it with peripheral BS.

Maybe you are the one who should learn.

And btw, yes. I learn. There are several things that I learn reading through people posts and threads. Many things portrayed around here teach me a lot of things that I've never experienced. but usually, when I don't know, I keep my mouth shut.

Giving my opinion is not a statement of authority or representative status.

EDITED TO ADD

For instance, i can only guess the race relations from what I hear and read. You say everyone respects each other there

I was speaking in general terms. You don't see racism or racial issues as often as you see in the US. OKS understood my point.

And yes, there are racial problems in Europe too. We also have neo-nazi parties, we also have racist people. but that's also within my point. Racist people exist everywhere. If people continue to give attention to them, the problem only continues.

reply to post by Tifozi


I don't have a great understanding of "racism" or race relations in Europe...I have never been there and I haven't read much on the topic.

But I do know, and supported by this thread, that it is drastically different in Eurpoe than it is in USA. It seems that the wounds are still fresh in the USA. I think it has to do with the fact that the America has always claimed to be "land of the free" and where "all men are created equal"...but that has very rarely been the case. It has only been about 50 years...a little over a generation...where there have been legislated "equal rights". For anyone to believe that we are 100% equal now is a bit naive.

You can't undo 200+ years of systematically oppression with 50 years of legislative forced acceptance. There are deep inequalities due to the past oppression. No black person's family had the opportunity to participate in the American land grabs, no black person's family had the opportunity to participate in gold rushes, no black person's family had the opportunity to set up long standing financial institutions that still stand today, no black person's family had th opportunity to prosper during the industrial revolution and create companies that still stand today. No black person's family has had the opportunity to create family dynasties that have large control over the country still to this day.

For anyone to claim that things are now completely "equal" because blacks can now vote and can't be told they aren't going to be hired because of the color of thier skin...is being totally dishonest and ignoring an uncomfortable history.

Things aren't equal...there is still a need for minorities to help each other out to rise to the level of success that is enjoyed mostly by whites in this country. There is nothing wrong with helping each other out, whites have been doing it for hundreds of years in this country...why can't minorities do it now?

Which is why when I see white people getting upset over blacks or other minorities uniting together and wanting to help each other out...I see that as racism because it appears they are upset that minorities may just rise to the level of success that has traditionally only been enjoyed by whites in this country.

Racism in America is not dead at all...I'd say it is as widespread today as it ever has been...it is just more hidden in today's society.

reply to post by Tifozi


i did, with an open mind.
Thanks for the European History Lesson on Race relations, which is another matter from race relations in America.

apples and oranges.

i doubt it matters since your not responding. but thanks for the dance.

Q: Diddy just say that?
A: Yes he did!

By definition he may not be a racist but he is acting like one because Black Supremacist is certainly a synonym of Racist.

The truth is, racism will never will never go away because the antithesis of racism is stubborn pride.
This means you can't get rid of one without getting rid of the other and we all know pride is part of the human DNA.
Long story short, get over it, live with it and let's all move on.

reply to post by SurrealisticPillow


actually the statistics of predominantly black football players have a further meaning.

Blacks were bred like horses, which assist in competitive sports. Had they not been, the "playing field" would be level ...no pun intended.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
reply to post by martianmallow

 

I was around during the 60's and remember segregated bathrooms, water fountains, school integration - all that stuff. The US has come a long, long ways since then. I hate to see people of any color pushing separatism in any form.
I just wish everyone could be happy to call themselves "Americans" and not having to add some type of racial/geographic prefix.

You are completely ignoring the fact that for over 200 years that minorities weren't welcomed to call themselves "Americans". But now it makes you uncomfortable, so you want them to ignore hundreds of years of mis-treatment and just do as they are told.

You lived the segregation...so that means so did many living black people. And you want them to just "forget about it" and move along huh?

Slavery and all racist acts toward us will always be part of us...But, I am tired...SO TIRED.. Of being treated like such an infant by blacks and whites alike because of it. Black folks have internalized the soft bigotry of low expectation, to the point that black achievement is met with outright hatred by other blacks(crabs in a barrel. One crab tries to crawl out, the others pull him back). It's black self and same hatred that has become the main problem today, not slavery or racism. As a well-spoken black man, I can't tell you how many times black folks have attacked me as an oreo, or "other" because I can speak a complete sentence without slang, or because I know, and have been employed by white people (which means that I am, of course, a house 'n-word' too. Tired of the bull#. My people keep themselves down. How is it that any immigrant from any culture t
You can name, can come to the US and have a thriving business and a house in 10 years, while black folks who have been here their whole lives still on welfare? The answer is hustle and hard work. Some of those people are coming straight from a mud hut in the Congo. Ask them what they think of black Americans. Maybe they'll tell you..

After they stop laughing.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

But I do know, and supported by this thread, that it is drastically different in Eurpoe than it is in USA. It seems that the wounds are still fresh in the USA.

Absolutely.

But like I said, maybe the wounds in the USA are so fresh, because people also make a point in putting fingers in the wound.

I never stated that afro-american citizens aren't entitled to feeling hurt, treated differently or any of those issues. I'm actually aware of how different people get treated often.

But again, making a racist battle over it only seems to make it worst. The US should make a stand on labeling "right" or "wrong" instead of "racist" or "non-racist".

I think it has to do with the fact that the America has always claimed to be "land of the free" and where "all men are created equal"...but that has very rarely been the case. It has only been about 50 years...a little over a generation...where there have been legislated "equal rights". For anyone to believe that we are 100% equal now is a bit naive.

I agree, and I'm not even trying to portray the contrary. Racism does exist, and there are racist people in places that unable, for instance, people from other ethnicities from moving upwards.

And I also agree that the wounds are still too fresh. I mean, Martin L. King wasn't that long ago. The racial battle still has a lot of mentalities to change.

But I also think that change also has to happen within the groups that complain about racism.

It's one thing to claim your rights and fight for them, and it's another very different to make a racial battle over it.

One person who is victim of racist should complain about it, and yes, I'm aware that's a bit optimistic since the problem could be put under a desk and "forgot" about.

People shouldn't yell "that's racist" and then start battles where other people are forced to pick sides, bringing emotional issues to the discussion, forcing people to get defensive and use arguments that don't bring anything good to the discussion.

You can't undo 200+ years of systematically oppression with 50 years of legislative forced acceptance. There are deep inequalities due to the past oppression. No black person's family had the opportunity to participate in the American land grabs, no black person's family had the opportunity to participate in gold rushes, no black person's family had the opportunity to set up long standing financial institutions that still stand today, no black person's family had th opportunity to prosper during the industrial revolution and create companies that still stand today. No black person's family has had the opportunity to create family dynasties that have large control over the country still to this day.

I agree, and that is also the main problem to my view.

For anyone to claim that things are now completely "equal" because blacks can now vote and can't be told they aren't going to be hired because of the color of thier skin...is being totally dishonest and ignoring an uncomfortable history.

I agree. There is a difference between having legislation and behaving in a proper manner. But I'm not saying people should ignore it. I'm saying people should embrace it and fight for unity. Forgive one another, even if one side suffered more than the other...

Which is why when I see white people getting upset over blacks or other minorities uniting together and wanting to help each other out...I see that as racism because it appears they are upset that minorities may just rise to the level of success that has traditionally only been enjoyed by whites in this country.

I'm not upset by this, and I'm not upset for people calling for unity. I just don't agree with the sort of unity that is being portrayed. People should embrace unity for all, not between groups. And that effort has to come from both sides.

Racism in America is not dead at all...I'd say it is as widespread today as it ever has been...it is just more hidden in today's society.

Again, I agree. But if people continue to make this a discussion about racism, racism will continue to exist. The arguments will continue to be based on the colors, and not on the actual arguments (just or unjust, rightful or not, etc).

reply to post by LightsideAssassin


First off, I agree that there is a complete seperate issue within any minority group of members of the group showing negativity to those looking to make a better life for themselves...but IMO...that is a seperate issue. But....

My people keep themselves down.

Don't you think that is a reason why something like "Black Power" to unite people and encourage people to help each other out instead of working against each other is a good thing?

What would be your solution?

reply to post by Tifozi


actually ignoring racist is the worst thing we can do:

" Such an attitude stems from a tragic misconception of time, from the strangely irrational notion that there is something in the very flow of time that will inevitably cure all ills. Actually, time itself is neutral; it can be used either destructively or constructively. More and more I feel that the people of ill will have used time much more effectively than have the people of good will. We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people but for the appalling silence of the good people. Human progress never rolls in on wheels of inevitability; it comes through the tireless efforts of men willing to be co workers with God, and without this hard work, time itself becomes an ally of the forces of social stagnation. We must use time creatively, in the knowledge that the time is always ripe to do right....

I had hoped that the white moderate would see this need. Perhaps I was too optimistic; perhaps I expected too much. I suppose I should have realized that few members of the oppressor race can understand the deep groans and passionate yearnings of the oppressed race, and still fewer have the vision to see that injustice must be rooted out by strong, persistent and determined action.

I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Councilor or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says, "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another mans freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro the wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating that absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection."

-
Letter from a Birmingham Jail, Martin Luther King, Jr., 1963

I am thinking completely different now after reading all this, i thought race relations were good at the moment (obviously not). I don't thinki those bringing up all the black slavery are doing themselves or there races any favours. How can you move on, or don't you want to?

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


That's right son!! Was gonna post it but you beat me to it.

Peace!

reply to post by martianmallow


I know why he made the statements he made. However, it's still a double standard and if I were to do that I would be called a racist for doing so. It's a two way street and he knows better than that. Business hype or not, he knows better.

reply to post by goinglocodowninacapulco


its like the husband that cheats and wants to "move past it" without an apology.

or the kid who breaks your crayons and eats your snack and wonders why you don't want to be on their kickball team.

if it's not such a big deal why can't people in positions of power just acknowledge that they are priveleage, and we both can start the healing together?

Instead of asking me "what's your problem"??!?!
,,, whilst my Doritoes are all over your face...

reply to post by femalepharoe


Stop twisting my words.

I'm not saying to ignore racism ffs.

I'm saying people should stop making an emotional battle over it.

There are plenty of cases where black communities TOOK AWAY all the excuses for people to be racist towards them. That's how I think things should be handled. Face the problem, don't make stupid alliances where people will see them as a separating attitude.

reply to post by Tifozi

But I also think that change also has to happen within the groups that complain about racism.
...
I just don't agree with the sort of unity that is being portrayed. People should embrace unity for all, not between groups. And that effort has to come from both sides.

And this is where I see "Black Power" as a positive message rather than a negative message.

There ARE issues within minority groups like another member pointed out...the message is to help each other out instead of hold each other back.

I don't see, and many others don't see, "Black Power" as being a call for segregation or black dominance over others...it has historically been, and I believe still is a call for within the group to change their attitudes, to help each other out instead of holding each other down and fighting amongst each other.

On the other hand "White Power" in America has been a call to keep minorities down that are trying to rise up out of thier oppression. I have never seen "White Power" used in a context in a call for white people to help each other out.

The two just have different meanings altogether, similar phrases...different meanings.

reply to post by femalepharoe


I know, but it was a long time ago, why do we have to pay for other generations sins?

reply to post by Tifozi


sir, or madame

this is what you said verbatum:

"Racist people exist everywhere. If people continue to give attention to them, the problem only continues."

how am i twisting your words by responding to exactly what you said? Let's not get emotional here.

You called to ignore racist people - that would be dangerous.