Muslims: I'm becoming very tired of your violence

reply to post by torqpoc


Star for coming back to me so quickly with a coherent explanation - thanks for that.

There are so many arguments flying on this thread i'd lost track! Whilst it really doesn't mean anything, as you pointed out, i do see the point Maclane Inc was making - to anyone seeing that avatar for the first time, you would automatically expect to be communicating with someone with, how shall we say, more radical ideas.

And whilst we all know you shouldn't judge a book by its cover, how many can hand on heart say that they do not do exactly that from time to time?

I dont know why they get a pass all the time. Rioting and killing because someone burns the Quran or even makes a cartoon of Mohammed, and everyone has to apologize to them. These aren't the acts of a civilized people. Why aren't they held to the same standard as law abiding people? Even a child is corrected when they throw a tantrum, not apologized to or respected.

reply to post by nenothtu


Dear Nenothtu,
Actually no I don't know any Christians who use that phrase. However judging how a religious person chooses to follow his religion is also something I don't know about, or wish to, because it is extremely arrogant, self centred and ultimately very oppressive and that is the point right?

It is fully acceptable to judge Muslims and their actions but "en revanche" we're not allowed to say a single thing about Christians, or everything which has been done in the name of the Christian God, right?

So if we wish to make a tangent, everyone who doesn't follow Christian or Western doctrine is open to criticism, because we.. the almighty Christian West have the right to judge and discipline anyone and everyone who doesn't follow our doctrine. Remind you much of early Christianity and the atrocities done in it's name? It does me at the very least.

Just a quick example.. en.wikipedia.org...
and
en.wikipedia.org...

Seems pretty fervent to me, wouldn't you say?

T

Originally posted by some freak
before you all go full retard on muslim bashing here, maybe you should put aside some of your time to research about wahabism

that is all

Salam alaykum (Peace be upon you all)

Wahabbism isn't the only problem in Islam.

وعليكم السلام (and upon you, peace)

reply to post by Flavian


Dear Flavian,
You're very welcome. I am always happy to elaborate when it's required or asked.

Hand on heart I have also judged and to this day regret it, which is why I decided to jump on board this post to, at the very least, throw some arguments to not defend extremism or violence, but to open eyes as to why you cannot make this kind of point without looking at it from the other side of the fence also.

T

Originally posted by torqpoc
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Dear Nenothtu,
Actually no I don't know any Christians who use that phrase. However judging how a religious person chooses to follow his religion is also something I don't know about, or wish to, because it is extremely arrogant, self centred and ultimately very oppressive and that is the point right?

Yes, it is arrogant, self-centered, and oppressive - up to the point where they associate their religion with a political statement that threatens a breach of the peace of others, and promises mayhem. At that point, it becomes prudent.

This is one of the reasons that religion and politics should never be mixed, and it is one of the shortcomings of traditionalist Islam - it's more than a religion, it is a political system as well. Ask a Muslim, I'm sure you know at least as many as I do. they will tell you, in the more candid moments, that Islam is more than a religion, it's a way of life - religious, social, economic, and political.

It is fully acceptable to judge Muslims and their actions but "en revanche" we're not allowed to say a single thing about Christians, or everything which has been done in the name of the Christian God, right?

Why? I say stuff about Christians all the time - even to the point of arguing theology with preachers - and have yet to have the first one threaten to kill me over it. There are some Muslims out there that one can discuss the finer points of theology with, just as one can with a Christian, and there are others whom it is best to stick to sports and weather as discussion topics.

So if we wish to make a tangent, everyone who doesn't follow Christian or Western doctrine is open to criticism, because we.. the almighty Christian West have the right to judge and discipline anyone and everyone who doesn't follow our doctrine. Remind you much of early Christianity and the atrocities done in it's name? It does me at the very least.

EVERYONE is fair game for criticism. EVERYONE. We are not discussing early Christianity here - it's long gone, a topic for the history books. We are discussing current actions, a topic for current affairs.

Just a quick example.. en.wikipedia.org...
and
en.wikipedia.org...

Seems pretty fervent to me, wouldn't you say?

T

It strikes me as more formulaic than fervent.

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by torqpoc

Let's imagine a bunch of guys invade the US. They tell you what to think, do, how to raise your children, what religion to follow and that everything you stand for is a lie. Would you sit idly by and say "yes please, thank you very much, please tell me how to live" or would you be somewhat irritated and perhaps, just perhaps, feel a little bit threatened?

Yeah. Except the US isn't doing those things, so that argument is a non-starter.

Add to that that these invaders then go ahead and burn replicas of the declaration of independence, or Bible.. you pick.

They already do, and flags, too. I've yet to threaten to kill the first one over such trivialities.

Dear Nenothtu,
Then here is where we differ in opinion. I feel the US has done exactly that. They invaded Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya (albeit undercover), will do the same in Iran and Syria more than likely.

They dictated to people how they should follow their religion, live their lives and attempted to "indoctrinate" the populace in exactly the same way as the missionaries did way way back in our history. It's the same principle, and the invaded have a right to defend themselves, as they are doing.

It's not a complicated situation for me to understand. Quite simple.. don't get involved in other country's issues and you won't get this kind of reaction.

The US didn't learn it's lesson in Vietnam and hasn't stopped making the same mistake since.

I'm editing here to answer your last post also.

You seem to argue that because we in the West transcended from our barbaric religious nature, everyone else must do so also. If they wish to have religion intertwined with government and law, so be it.

By telling them they can't, judging, invading and enforcing we, the "civilised West" will never succeed. Simple human nature. It is also highly questionable if we have the legal right to, under our own Western laws. I don't see the difference between early Christianity and modern. I see West versus Middle East or anything which doesn't fall into it's cookie cutter mold. I see a big problem or arrogance and desire to rule the world by the very same sword. It is now done with missiles and drones, not armies on horseback with a red cross emblazoned on their chest. Nothing is forgotten, history is simply repeated and WE are repeating it and wondering why it's not turning out well this time around. How stupid must we all be to think it would?

A square peg will not go into a round hole. I learnt that as a child. It seems to me some Westerners and their governments are still trying to get past that very basic point.

T

reply to post by nenothtu


But surely that works with all religions? In the same way that a form of Islam often affects lives around the world by becoming politicised, so too does Christianity. For example, you can't become President of the US without being a Christian (it certainly appears that way to the rest of the world). Look at Bush and his "god told me to invade Iraq" quote!

Dear OP,

I can understand your pain and feelings, over the chaos you had witnessed around the world.

But it would be a great, if not the greatest mistake, to pin the blame on muslims in general.

Look towards those whom claimed to be religious leaders. They are the ones responsible for the mayhem and chaos.

Islam have NEVER meant to bring chaos and mayhem. It was to bring civilisation to mankind. The good prophet Muhammad DID NOT start off as a conqueror. He converted the heathen arabs in Arabia whom were fire worshippers whom engaged in human sacrifices amongst many other attrocities, to know our common Creator, through sweat and toil on foot.

He only put on battle gear when his followers were brutally tortured and murdered, despite many attempts at diplomacy. No one was even molested if they left those of muslims live in peace. Yet, many of the other nations in Arabia refused, and faced the wrath of divine justice.

Children of the Book whom were willing to see errors in their way and willing to change were let live, so too those whom were pagans. Those whom refused, but to continue in barbarism and human sacrificies, murder of humans, were themselves cut down deservedly for the beasts they had become, such as what the world is doing now to destroy terrorists, as a means to protect the rest of humans.

Diplomacy had always been his policy under divine guidance till his last dying breathe. Thus the survival of the barbaric Persians. Unfortunately, he left no heirs, nor instructed to, for he saw our Creator's wisdom to not leave middle men to intercede between God and man. Power corrupts all and absolute power by way of religion will only lead to mortals being absolutely corrupted. The prophet's central tenet had always been that there will be NO mortal man between man and God, to live by conscience and moral guidance and guide/contribute to society as a whole.

Diplomay, tolerance and much more ended when the prophet Muhammad passed on. Many of the followers, mere mortal ancient men long lived under heirachies, unfortunately were not ready for his progressive message, and thus, the chaos we see from time to time, with mortal men corrupted by power misusing religion for their own personal aims.

It is only a common theme all too familiar with the human race in every religion taught by divine teachers sent to Earth. We had equally seen chaos and mayhem with Catholic christianity, bigotrous Hinduism, robotic Judaism, enslavement Buddhism, etc.

It was because of our human flaw - lust by man and a very much uneducated kept stupid masses.

Fortunately, today we live in a very much enlightened world where education is avaliable for many. It does not mean only those with PHDs are the enlightened ones. It means all whom at least have years of basic education in maths, science and language, able to read, to conceptulise, to critically think, to regect falsehoods but seek for truths, no matter how painful is will be, can be and will be enlightened.

Many of the old had long controlled and shaped our world. Old does not often mean wisdom. Many never grow up They just grow old. They had refused to let go of the baggages of the past, sought only for comfort and familiarity of old age, reject changes even if it would mean progress and evolution for mankind.

They are responsible for passing on their filth to the new generations, contaminating them with rigid flawed ways of the past, misusing religion and power for only their own personal and hypocrisy glory.

The young must wake up, and to critically assess what had been taught. The old will not live to see their errors of their own ways, BUT the young and the innocent next generations will have to live with the mistakes of the past and pay such debts for the rest of their lives ahead. May the young not be misled.

you're seeking the roots of the whole problem in the wrong places. wahhabism is one of the biggest global threats and its being funded by the saudi. let me sum it up;

white man is addicted to oil like an alcoholic to booze. white man wants oil. house of saud is sitting on an oil resource with approx. 80 years of reserve. white man must invest on better alternative resources. stop buying oil from the saudis and cut their income. let them drink the rest of he oil as there'll be nothing else to do with it.

here.

the game dates back to the 16th century and the 1930's where the british elite sent agents to the arab peninsula to infiltrate the community and spread the harshest form of religious practice.

islam as a whole does not equal terror. the majority of muslims are peaceful people who are also opposed heavily by the wahhabis and accused as infidels just because of their sects. educate thyself.

Originally posted by kn0wh0w
Why is this all connected to Islam?

Or rather why are these actions attributed to the Islam. (sure some will willingly blow themselves up in the name of Allah)

If i blews myself up here in the Netherlands would it also be attributed to Christianity?

Don't think so, they'll probably report a mentally deranged man blew himself up.

The only difference is that in the case of Muslims who strap on suicide vests or use car bombs to kill innocent people, there is usually an Imam somewhere who told them Allah will consider him a hero and he will have untold blessings in paradise. The Imams will also assure him that his immediate family will be cared for. This is a little different than some deranged Christian man blowing himself up. There usually is no support group behind him supplying him with explosives, passports, and the other resources he needs to accomplish his act of Jihad.

I have about 150 Muslims that work for me. Almost to a man they reject the violence carried out in the name of Islam., but they also happen to come from countries with secular governments that for the most part do not concede to the demands of the Imams.

So I'm in Afghanistan right now... right this very second... let me give you some "intelligent" insight to this country, because I realize most (about 99%) of you have never been here, or any other middle east Islamic state.

If you are a Muslim, and you are offended by Islam bashing on the internet, you are...
1. Not from the Middle East
2. From the Middle East and rich
3. From India and think you are from the Middle East

Let me make some things very clear guys/gals..
This country does not have internet, unless you are extremely rich
The flow of knowledge is passed through word of mouth and/or VHS/DVD video
The highest level of education attainable by everyday citizens puts them at about a 5th grade reading level and about 7th grade everything else
If you are rich, you can go to a "University" where you will be lucky to attain a 10th grade reading level
If you are from Kuwait/UAE and EXTREMELY rich you could have a western education

So... now that I've explained why 99% of the people living in this Sh*thole of Earth are, how do I say this... Mentally Retarded, I can further explain the situation

These people are literally mentally handicapped.

They struggle to understand basic human rights, reasoning, and equality. They are archaic to say the least.
They are retarded.

If you talk to anyone over here, they are all mean. And by mean, I imply that they want to slit your f*cking throat.
We as "westerners" represent everything evil to them, everything.
If they are too chicken sh*t to slit your throat, they will gather intelligence about you. And by intelligence I mean they will write down times you visit, and they will use a 1994 nokia to phone a terrorist who is a little smarter than them to try and kill you.
This is everyone...
literally everyone
no seriously, they all want you dead
and they will tell you this if you piss them off just a little bit
correct them once, you may think you are doing them a favor and being very nice about it
they will give you the eye
the eye, the best I can explain it, is remember when you were a little pyschopath child and that one school teacher you hated punished you, the eye is the look you gave that teacher. Its the if-I-could-slit-your-throat-dispose-of-the body-and-no-one-would-miss-you-I-would-do-it-in-a-heartbeat look.
It's not really scary to myself, because Im staring at a 5'4" smelly man who cant even spell his own name let alone wield a weapon, but its enough to make you realize, WOW these people f*ucking hate me for no reason at all

The people here aspire to do nothing, be nothing, and be given everything. They expect you to pay more for their absolutely shi* quality crafts because you are American. They will give you a different exhange rate for 5x1$ bills than a 5$ bill because they are too stupid to understand the concept behind exchange rates. They want to be left alone....

fine... leave them alone

you know what that turns into....

the people here are stupid, they are unable to make anything of value... they literally believe technology will be given to them by Muhommad (f*ck you and your prophets), you know why? Because terrorist Abdul gives it to them for free and tells them it was a gift from Muhommad or Allah. And they take it literally. That their god wished them to have technology, so it was, and is. Now is it their fault, no, not really, you have to treat and educate them like 5yr olds. But at a certain point you have to realize that common sense isnt something you learn.... they have none.

None of them aspire to westernize. They want to stay here and herd goats and weave cotton for eternity, until their prophet returns to take them to glory. So they support the radicals that promise them his return, they view terrorists as prophets because they bring change. They bring new military equipment to the country from westerners, and they see that as progress. They glorify IED's and RPG's which inflict no damage or deaths but go BOOM because they cant do it, so this terrorist must be a prophet if he can make fire and noise from yellow pebbles and gas...

Im not exaggerating or lying

Once we secure routes, and China mines this sh*t dry, and the US has left all its Uranium in the mountains, we will leave. We will leave and let the future of this country die. Because all of the people will.

You know what... no one will care

They contribute Opiates to the world

nothing more

nothing less

The super powers do not care about this country

Russia didnt

and neither do I

and neither should you

because these people are being left behind in the game of evolution, and they deserve it. They are horrid people. Ask a person who left the Middle East, I bet they want them all dead
The citizens here support the terrorists or they wouldnt exist, the wouldnt survive.

Next time you defend Islam and say all Muslims aren't radicals, ask yourself, if you lived there, would you snitch the bomb maker? Would you endanger your family for future peace?

Thought so.

Originally posted by jamsession
you're seeking the roots of the whole problem in the wrong places. wahhabism is one of the biggest global threats and its being funded by the saudi. let me sum it up;

white man is addicted to oil like an alcoholic to booze. white man wants oil. house of saud is sitting on an oil resource with approx. 80 years of reserve. white man must invest on better alternative resources. stop buying oil from the saudis and cut their income. let them drink the rest of he oil as there'll be nothing else to do with it.

here.

the game dates back to the 16th century and the 1930's where the british elite sent agents to the arab peninsula to infiltrate the community and spread the harshest form of religious practice.

islam as a whole does not equal terror. the majority of muslims are peaceful people who are also opposed heavily by the wahhabis and accused as infidels just because of their sects. educate thyself.

Which white man would that be? Have a name?

Originally posted by METACOMET
reply to post by beezzer

 

What would have been winning the war?

General Black Jack Pershing did more to combat islamic terrorists in one afternoon than we (the west ) have done in the last 10 years Know Your Enemy www.sharenator.com...

reply to post by 3nlightened


dude. i was born, raised and still live in a country where you hit a mosque every 500 meters. i live in turkey and i assure you, the society and form of islam you are talking about right now is the most extreme style mixed up with the lack of education and insight. read my former post above and you'll understand the basics. the western world wants you yo believe that islam is evil in nature, in fact, it is not more evil than judaism or christianity. you cannot find one single line in koran about stoning women. but it originates from talmud. same goes for headscarves, although it is written in koran, the original source is talmud.

the elite want islam to be identified with terrorist attacks and 9/11 was intended for and staged as the biggest propaganda.

reply to post by alienorgy


insert any non-muslim in there, used as an idiom for the western elite regardless if they're white, blue or green in color.

Originally posted by 3nlightened
Once we secure routes, and China mines this sh*t dry, and the US has left all its Uranium in the mountains, we will leave. We will leave and let the future of this country die. Because all of the people will.

So essentially you're confirming my point.
a) They don't want us there, so we're invading
b) We're there for material rather than social reasons.

So, let's applaud the West for invading countries and raping their resources because the people are "too stupid" to understand, right?

I'm so impressed, and now I wonder why people wish to kill Westerners... duh!

T

Originally posted by torqpoc
reply to post by Mclaneinc

 

Dear Mclaneinc,
I'm going to derail this exchange, with a little insight.

Symbolism like this you mean?
www.masterplaques.com...

Or something along these lines?
en.wikipedia.org...

Less we forget who truly is innocent or guilty

T

I think my depiction of the point about the avatar was more precise than a general who's who of the bad guy world.

As for who's innocent..No one...

reply to post by torqpoc


Let's not forget the atrocities of Christianity and Judaism... when the Muslims believed they were entitled to Jerusalem and The Rock... Oh what did Christianity have to do to get it through the barbaric mind of Muslims, that's right, they ate your children. The only thing Muslims understood was not that they could not have land that did not belong to them, it was we should stop trying now because they are eating our children.

Bravo, yet another Islamic argument where other religions are worse and only the minority of YOUR religion are the bad people

Guess what, Templars were only a minority. The Spanish only represented a small percentage of Christians.

That argument goes both ways untouchables

Yet another incident where Muslims proved to be incompetent and unable to form a valid argument that doesnt backlash at them. What other religious example you want to hide behind, I can go on all daaaaaayuuuuuummm day.

History is history, Christians aren't killing in the name of religion right now are they?

If you wanna start that war be my guest, but I would say Christianity has a good 500 year technological advancement over Islam and would have absolutely no problem takin y'all out...quick. That would be a wonderfully short war

and no.. I dont want your malaria water tea and half cooked cow. Learn to use eating utensils animal

reply to post by Mclaneinc


Dear Mclaneinc,

Precision aside, it was a valid retort. You're discussing symbolism based on your own feelings about it. Biased or not, you find his comments to be "concerning" because of what is expressed and the context.

Precision aside, yet again, Western symbolism is just as "concerning", and I think that is somewhat irrefutable.

T