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Questions of Zen: Is there any scientific proof or evidence for Zen? Also was is the difference betw

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posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by ImaFungi
 


The not a thing that you are, experiences. It experiences what it 'thinks' is 'things'. 'Things' separate to itself. It believes itself to be separate from it's experience but it is not.
What is seeing the constanty changing, fleeting, moving world of 'things' is not moving, not changing.
It's a matter of where you are looking from:

youtu.be...
edit on 25-2-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by ImaFungi
 


That's a very diverse question.

Yes and No in many ways...

This link is a more concise articulation. You can explore the links in my signature also (the second white one mostly)
www.unexplained-mysteries.cotm...

Essentially yes there is a driving force and it's consciousness. The implications are that life has always existed and all dimensions and experiences or non-experiences (in the hypersphere's case) are simultaneously happening in every moment. It is only objective experience that perceives linear time via choice (emphasis upon point of view of one possibility (i.e. each individual objective "moment") of all possibilities that happen simultaneously) Also some possibilities have never been objectively expirenced by an observer (self) whilst some have been experienced many times (deja-vu).

The purpose...?

to experience evolution of one's consciousness, to reach ones highest potential of self in perceived reality.

LOVE
...

ETERNITY


edit on 25-2-2012 by Spiratio because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-2-2012 by Spiratio because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 11:23 AM
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reply to post by Spiratio
 


life has always existed? what are the limitations or conditions of life? or life to you is transient of the human experience and more of the conscious awareness aspect? how can consciousness exist if it is not attached to the physical? what would it be? where would it be? where would it have come from? would it be an individually bound entity? what is the consciousness you describe? if it has no focal point how can it be functioning as an aware consolidation of churning information?



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 11:27 AM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 





you say it is not changing, it is a matter of where you are looking from..... is that not a change?

when you were a baby till you are how you are now... you did not change, you just look at things different? semantics no?

is there better or worse? even if those things are subjective..... could the subjectiveness prove better or worse?

as in good or bad may not objectively absolutely exist,,,,, but a guy rapeing a little girl,, we can call bad, and it can be considered true,...... and a guy giving a few bucks to someone starving on the street so that he can eat a meal truly effected this mans life positively good
edit on 25-2-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 11:30 AM
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reply to post by ImaFungi
 


I urge you to watch the video, he explains it very well.
edit on 25-2-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by arpgme

If Zen is true, then there is no spirit or god or prophet, they are just things created from the human mind.




I'm under the opinion that Zen—like every other synthetic judgements and systems of life—is also created in the human mind, and thus cannot be true. If zen is merely another interpretation of truth, and man is merely his own measure of all things, we'll find that zen and other doctrines are merely one man's dogmatic attempt at interpreting life for others. The only time I ever feel nihilistic is when I study these interpretations knowing that whoever first conceived of the idea, wrote it down and preached it to others, was doing so for vain and valueless reasons.


Originally posted by arpgme
What is the difference between Zen and Nihilism for example?


Nihilism at least assumes we are something. Inside and outside of us there is constant chaos and cause and effect happening, it seems fairly obvious, except that there is no value in that something; and all morals, values, definitions and measurements of life we create are absolutely meaningless and done in vain. That's why nihilism is dangerous: if we cannot find value in something—life for example—then it may as well be destroyed.

The state of zen and the practice of Zen buddhism almost sounds like the pursuit of nihilism, but rather than find something valueless, it finds value in nothingness (if that makes sense). It still offers value and worth to the practitioners of Zen buddhism. If zen was nihilistic, there would be no point in practicing it or attaining any form of it.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 11:33 AM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


ive seen it before you showed me, ill watch again,,, it ignores a lot while only describing and paying attention to a little.

do you see no distinction between a race of beings, who harness intelligence and the power to create their own realities to their own desires, set the rules and control, live for thousands of years, kick back, have family and company, and experiment with shapes and size and matters and materials... no difference between the best thing one can think of and the worst? or if there is a difference you can always ignore it? or there is only a difference if one perceives it is what your saying......
edit on 25-2-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)



you dont think it took any effort or discipline to formulate material, or order.... you shrug your shoulders at amazing architectural feats,, you have to admit and understand it is impressive... in the same way that this reality exists and the form of life in its diversity exists is impressive, and how could it have been easy to accomplish...
edit on 25-2-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)


there is the artist and the viewer,,, the entertainer and the entertained........ the natural animal beings of this world live their lives passively in the sense that they cant understand the complexity of their existence, they only follow their nature,, humans are attempting to become like creators of nature..... they dont wish to be stuck with this experience placed onto them,,, they wish to create their own experience,, just like that wish created the platform for all experience,, creates platforms and experiences.
edit on 25-2-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 11:40 AM
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reply to post by ImaFungi
 


It shows the truth.
The truth is not good for questions. Questions don't want the truth because question would die.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 11:48 AM
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reply to post by ImaFungi
 


There is only ever what is happening presently. It is all that exists. But humans carry around stories about all sorts of stuff and complete with a story about this and that.
There is only ever this.
I am/this is. Together as one.

Humans believe in 'other', but 'other' does not exist in reality.
Reality is this present moment and everything that is contained in it.

edit on 25-2-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 11:51 AM
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You think humans are doing it:
youtu.be...

Find out who is driving the dreambus.
edit on 25-2-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 11:53 AM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


yes.... anyone who thinks otherwise does not have much power themselves to for the lack of a better term, get snip done... you think humans havent created/manifested every material item that is on earth? boats, homes, all technology, computers, phone lines, phones, streets, vehicles, libraries and internets of information.etc.etc.etc.etc.


i watched a few of the videos you posted with that guy now, not peter brown, but that other dude...... he says some ridiculously incorrect things.... you cannot say that someone else doesnt have a choice..... i know the philosophical arguments, and quantum probability whatever.... but that just removes all responsibility from the individual.... i didnt choose to kill that person officer it was the wave, god did it......... you choose everything you do..... and being a human is one of the highest expressions of freedom i know of,,,,, compared to snails, rocks, and the sea... ( a few of the other things we know exist,,,, as appearances at least)
edit on 25-2-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by ImaFungi
 


As a human you have the choice to 'think' you have made the wrong/right decision. A snail can not be wrong, a snail can not sin.
You believe you can sin. Because humans believe they should be good they do dreadful sins against themselves.
They lie to themselves and decieve themselves and deny the Self.
edit on 25-2-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 12:04 PM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


sin is a concept used to help humans live healthy lives..... if humans didnt believe they should be good, the world would be a completely different place, and we probably wouldn't be talking right now..


i like a lot of stuff you say, and at times you are spot on....... but i dont like the .... enlightenment is so easy, just embody ignorance.... ironically ignorance is bliss..
edit on 25-2-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by ImaFungi
 


'Be good' is what controls humans, it is planted deep (inception), it implies that you have to try. It says you are born bad. Not true. Your true nature is love. Fear of not being good enough is what hides that fact.
The fear that someone might see that you have not achieved 'good' yet.
You do not have to be any 'thing' because 'you are'.
Recognize the 'I am'. It is everywhere you go, it is presence itself.
edit on 25-2-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by ImaFungi
 


'Be good' is what controls humans, it is planted deep (inception), it implies that you have to try. I says you are born bad. Not true. Your true nature is love. Fear of not being good enough is what hides that fact.
The fear that someone might see that you have not achieved 'good' yet.
You do not have to be any 'thing' because 'you are'.
edit on 25-2-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)





the will to be good does not necessarily imply that you are born bad,,,,, it implies bad is possible,,, bad is bad,,,, to not be bad, would be good...... peoples own fears are situational from person to person unless you are speaking for all people,, struggle that they are not good enough so they are unable to experience love.......same with the fear someone might see you no achieving good,,, thats very situational case by case unless you proclaim that ever human has that same anxiety.......

how can humans cooperate without being good to one another? an original tribe or community, would it work well if everyone was bad to each other?



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


I recognize.... do you perceive any difference between...... " I am Hitler" " I am Ghandi" " I am Da vinci" " I am a dung beetle" " I am a alien humanoid being advanced far beyond you understanding" " I am Enjoying this nice piece of fruit" " i am poor and dying of starvation" " I am rich and have 4 yachts and gold courses" " I am a bee" " I am a queen bee" .


you are saying.... no difference.... because they all are..
edit on 25-2-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by ImaFungi
 


It is assumed that humans are bad and have to be controlled. It is the control that makes humans 'bad', dysfunctional. The constraints, the conditions, the rules put on humans and the choice they have is good or bad. Different countries have different rules, conditioning and who is good and who is bad.
Be what you are, don't put labels on you:

youtu.be...



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 12:37 PM
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reply to post by ImaFungi
 


'I am' is not someone else. 'I am' is knowing presence.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 12:43 PM
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are you assuming that humans are unable to be bad? and that they would be better off without any control ( which i equate to order)



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by ImaFungi


are you assuming that humans are unable to be bad? and that they would be better off without any control ( which i equate to order)


I more read it as him saying control cannot stop bad like it cannot create good.



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