Questions of Zen: Is there any scientific proof or evidence for Zen? Also was is the difference betw

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by arpgme

 

I see it as a lot more then nothing... nothing is just another word to describe something which ironically doesn't exist,,, nothing doesnt exist,, can nothing be?

Yes, nothingness does exist. It is the void, the vacuum scientifically speaking, and from the void virtual particles come in and out of existence.

So it is true nothingness that creates something. Nothing exists

reply to post by arpgme


ok so zen acknowledges this nothingness at that something can come from it like you said?

or you think people of zen believe that the something the nothing creates is actually nothing?

reply to post by ImaFungi


The nothingness manifests the thing. We know this because in science, virtual particles (things) are manifest from the vacuum (nothingness). Also, particles (thing) are %99.9 emptiness (nothingness).

reply to post by arpgme


No thing. Not a thing. There are 'things' and then there is the 'not a thing'.

youtu.be...

When you realize you are nothing, that is wisdom.
When you realize you are everything, that is love.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


If you want to put it in terms of duality. In Zen, it is the darkness that allows the light to exist.

reply to post by arpgme


The 'not a thing' is non dual.

reply to post by arpgme


virtual particles manifest from the vacuum........... So it is possible for particles to exist of matter, and in what we believe is vacuum or space between large concentrations of matter.... is it possible for particles to pop up beyond the reaches of the universe? what im asking is, is this phenomon of uniform and related particles that consist and present everything that can be physically known,,, is this all that can be in the expense of eternal forever ever ever ever? is there no such thing as nothing? as devoid of particle, material, energy,.... or is the universal system we exist in a closed system,,, a creation,, like a box that was made with us allowed to be made within it,,, and everything we know and can know is bias to the ways of this box?

reply to post by ImaFungi


It's all one substance, emptiness, or no thingness:
youtu.be...

reply to post by Itisnowagain


thats not true, because everything is different... you can label everything into a category of one word, nothing,, but that doesn't make it so,,, all things that occur and exist on other worlds and in other realms, under the sea and in other towns are surely actual events occurring with reactions and and effects, causes, responses,,, surely this is something more then the dismissive nothingness you claim to be... you can not accept this so you deny the existence of everything?

you can close your eyes and say,, nothing exsits,,, and to yourself be correct and true...... but it wont change the existence of everything.

reply to post by arpgme


I feel Zen nothing-ness is referring to quantified infinity.

According to Grigor Aslanyan the cosmos is likely a torus: www.cosmosmagazine.com...

It is believed the dimensions of a Torus could be arranged in 3 different variations. 

a. Infinite in 1 dimension and finite in 2. 
b. Finite in 1 dimension and Infinite in 2. 
c. Finite in all 3
..

From the macro-quantum perspective, cosms are comprised of microcosms (the quntum foam) which arrange themselves into clusters – multiverses which serve as particles of matter in the quantum foam of a single cosmos with which they are within. Also the cosmos implodes rather than explodes i.e. all matter and energy shrink by equal measure into infinite depth very fast and expansion is Quantum foam dividing itself (cosmic mitosis) to expand the shrinking playing field's potential of space, but it divides at a slower rate than the shrinking of resolution that exists at any time. So there is an increasing amount of free space and energy produced (dark energy/matter) whilst greater resolution and stuff fills into ever smaller points.

If a torus becomes infinite in all 3 dimensions it is no longer a torus and instead collapses back into the transcendent semi-formlessness of the 4D Hypersphere to which it is the infinitesimal potential of (in 3D space). I feel that this is actually happening in every moment at an unfathomable rate. Thus producing the heart beat of the cosmos which governs the rate of implosion.

The 3D cosm does encompass the entire volume of the hypersphere but the two are dimensionally separated... the way to envision this is that the hypersphere is infinite in eternal time. i.e. it has all points of depth into infinity accessed by it simultaneously in every passing moment. It is self similar and changeless.. Just as there are microcosms inside cosms there infinite micro-hyperspheres which make up hyperspheres. But an infinite number exist within each at every given moment. Each Hypersphere holds the blue print potential of all possible things by proxy that every micro hypersphere within itself holds the informational potential of all possible things (like how each cell in ones body knows what all other cells are doing their a hive of information) each knowing the roll of every other and all being able to adapt and share the information or roll of others because they are self similar at the penultimate level of reality.

Because a hypersphere is infinite it can house an infinite number of wavelength velocities into infinity. So 3D expressions can cycle through those hypersphere's as energetic fields at different rates producing tangible things of many different varieties. The way they work is scalar based tho so the fields do not conduct and produce kinetic energy. Its consciousness which is limited to an extent who's role is to collapse possibilities into and out of existence via the 4th dimension, this happens because living beings cannot perceive all of a hypersphere (quantified infinity) so only portions of the collectively observed micro-hyperspheres can be perceived i.e. toroids which vortate in accordance to expectation. A way to think of this is that 3D objects are to a hypersphere like how if sand could slipping through ones hand so fast it went by unnoticed i.e. undetectable. So the hypersphere is like self awareness but at a frequency beyond all other things so it knows not of things – even tho it holds the blue prints they are only informational potential and they are all known at once so definition is cancelled out. Consciousness' role in the observer is to extract the difference of contrast (potentials of all possibilities) into the 3rD dimension.

When the 4D hypersphere's 3D toroids/components are active they que the finite possibilities (comprehensive of 3D consciousness) and they spring out into defined form in linear time and then dissipate but at an incomprehensible rate. Same as quantum physics implies that particles pop in and out all the time in supperpositional states. Well since the cosmos is also existing by proxy of a Hypersphere at a higher level then the cosmos as a quantum component for the higher reality is also popping in and out.

Because the 4thD functions in eternal time it means that the cosmos can collapse for a really long time and spring out whilst the perception of the length of time is unnoticed by those within. Linear time carries on as if nothing happened. This is why the scalar function works (see my sig links) because of the no time factor in between the collapse and inflation of the quantum components/ microcosmoses, which defines the frequency of matter and particles for their objective reality whilst having no effect on the tents of the subjective cosms within themselves.

So I think Zen is referring to the Quantified infinity of a hypersphere.

reply to post by ImaFungi


There is an appearance that looks like something. But it is just vibrating energy all made of the same substance which is not a thing. Einstien said "Everything is emptiness, form is condensed emptiness".

Hehehehe...you better not to ask that to a Zen master. He would just walk away and smile at you. So, what happens if there are hardcore scientific proofs that what Zen Buddhism is real? Are you going to study Zen and to achieve enlightenment? What if I tell you that you still can't achieve enlightenment even knowing that Zen Buddhism is real and scientifically proven?

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Yes, a sense of nothing is a sense of just being, none-duality. Your being isn't pulled by one force or the other.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


vibrating energy is something....... the appearance of a rock looks like something,, if you believe it is nothing smash it over your head?

Originally posted by FlyersFan
What I don't understand about Buddhism ... (I was just reading this yesterday) ... is the nothingness of 'I' and no personality .. but then the oracles channel the 'dieties'. So if everyone eventually empties him/her self to the nothing, then how can there be gods and demigods?

There is a difference in one being a god or goddess, and one being worshiped as such. That is to say that just because there is ritual based around cultural or religious figures, it does not mean they are indeed that. Gods are only gods if we see them as such. Lord Buddha was only a man. He is held in such high regard because he was the original teacher of this age, as were the past Buddhas.

To your last question: there is only nothing in nothing, there can be no gods or demigods. On the same note: "We shape clay into a pot, but it is the emptiness inside that holds whatever we want." - Lao Tzu.. Emptiness can hold whatever you like while seeking it, but you will never know what it really holds, because once you reach it, there will be no you to identify it.

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

vibrating energy is something....... the appearance of a rock looks like something,, if you believe it is nothing smash it over your head?

Silly.... Do you really think the Zen master is really worrying about if a rock is real or not??? They concern about our life being. They aren't concerning about should a rock achieve enlightenment.

reply to post by ImaFungi


In a dream it looks like there is something but when you wake you see it was an illusion. It's real in essence like this is but it is made of nothing solid. Experience and sensation are real but they are not 'things'.

reply to post by Spiratio


is there any controlling force behind the hyper sphere or are the forces the control? you alluded that everything that ever has happened and ever will is received as information by the hyper sphere ( which i imagine is all encompassing reality?) does the hyper sphere extract meaning from this information? is there purpose? or are the creations within the hypersphere the dictators and experiencers of purposeful information and meaning? you have a very confusing way of explaining your understanding.... maybe i am the dummy, i believe i was following while i read,,, but not sure i understand the implications/

reply to post by Itisnowagain


yes there are no such things as static eternal things,, everything is fleeting, changing, in flux,,, how can energy experience anything close to the conceptual perfection of "real" you are suggesting? how can essence experience the real... or figure out what real would be? would it not be by becoming a thing? if for an extended while, the experience of that thing would be preoccupied with what would be inescapably real, as in,, existing in that moment,.... only after can we say we would like to escape this real moment, and exist as one with the nothing,, when we get to the state of non existence, or death, perhaps we will be begging to return.



the universe thought it could impress you with its illusions but you are attempting to trick it,, and in turn yourself.

EDITED: Not what I was looking to say..