Ronald Richter & Nazi discovery of Nuclear Fusion in 1936

Originally posted by Melbourne_Militia
had Hitler managed to drop a crude nuclear bomb on Russian territory and/or one on London you can bet the war would have finished quick smart after that in Germany's favour and the world today would be a totally different place.

You make several prsumptions:

1) that the German nuke was as powerful as Hiroshima or Nagasaki, it was not. Only 0.5 kilotons.
2) that there was an unlimited supply of warheads and resources to build new warheads... There was not.
3) You overlook the fact that upon the Allies finding out, that the Allies would not use counter threats of other warfare like CBW to intimidate and halt Hitler's ambitions ( as actually did)

Sam Woods was the OSS spymaster in Switzerland controlling Reichstag informer Erwin Respondek. Respondek informed Woods that Germany was creating nuclear weapons at a laboratory near Bisingen.

In the Cordell Hull Papers; Woods memorandum pp.18-19, refers to a series of earthquakes in Schwabian alps 4th 14th and 22 July 1943 at 09 degrees east, 48.2 degrees North, close to Bisingen where German atomic scientists had relocated, which raised the concern hinted at by Respondek that these were nuclear test blasts.

reply to post by sy.gunson


so you saying theres a chance that the Germans may have actually tested some of these bombs? interesting...

I heard a rumour years ago that Hitler may have had one in his eagles Nest Lair to detonate rather than surrender but never got around to it.....

be interesting to know if there might be any still lying around in hidden bunkers in germany? that could pose a few problems for the authorities.

Originally posted by Melbourne_Militia
reply to post by sy.gunson

 

so you saying theres a chance that the Germans may have actually tested some of these bombs? interesting...

I heard a rumour years ago that Hitler may have had one in his eagles Nest Lair to detonate rather than surrender but never got around to it.....

be interesting to know if there might be any still lying around in hidden bunkers in germany? that could pose a few problems for the authorities.

To be frank with you when Rainer Karlsch's book "Hitlers Bombe" came out I rejected the idea as I was so programmed myself to believe the opposite, but then I began to study and understand the facts.

I was forced to reverse my opinion once I understood that it was possible so yes now I do believe it. Now I eat humble pie and have to apologise to Karlsh.

The hardest question to resolve which Karlsch never answered was why if they had the bomb did they not win the war or use it?

Once I began to research that I also found answers. Espionage tipped off the western Allies before Hitler was ready to deploy his nuclear weapons or had enough to be useful. You have to remember, the Allies by 1944 had air superiority and penetrating UK air space as they had in the Battle of Britain was no longer an option.

The last air raids against Britain were by Heinkel He-177 bombers. During the first half of 1944, French and German-based He177s of II/KG40 took part in Operation 'Steinbock', an air offensive against British targets, making their attacks in high-speed shallow dives from altitude (around 29,000 feet).

The Spitfire by 1944 had a ceiling of 42,500 ft. The radar equipped Mosquito night fighter about 37,000 ft.Hitler ordered into production the He-277 with a service ceiling of 49,500 feet so that England could be bombed with impunity, but that would not be ready until October 1944. The V-2 rockets which Hitler also intended to be armed with tactical nuke warheads was still in final production development when the Allies were tipped off.

USA threatened to nuke Dresden in July 1944 and Churchill threatened to drop Anthrax over Germany unless Hitler abandoned his nuclear weapons project and sued for peace.

Karlsh in his book noted that in July 1944 the German A-bomb scientists Schumann and Trinks were ordered to abandon their work by the SS.

Yes I think it was plausible and I don't think the whole truth of WW2 has been revealed. I think there were secret negotiations with Hitler and these were too compromising and unpalatable for the West to reveal during the Cold War.

A former Nazi scientist called Lachner who settled in Argentina claimed after the war that 15 German nuclear weapons were built and two fell into Soviet hands. These were tactical nuclear weapons of low yield. they were not the 4.5 ton monsters like the bombs dropped on Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

reply to post by sy.gunson

The furnaces were employed at the time in the reduction of Lithium for U-boat batteries. Richter discovered that the injection of heavy Hydrogen (Deuterium) caused a nuclear reaction which he could measure and gauge with Geiger counters.

I think Lithium can have induced radioactivity by many means but don't recall the German discover
of the fusion possibility.

Lets see the official word:
www.google.com...
lets add fusion:
www.google.com...
yes he was a leader in that area

Well I think German had a head start and by the 1940s definitely had a bomb developed
somewhere.

reply to post by HattoriHanzou


I do not draw my information from Greyfalcon, although in the past they appear to have cut and pasted from my work which I have objected to since I do not subscribe to all of their views.

In particular on one occasion some of my work was cut and pasted about the Junkers Ju390 and was blended with some of their material about alleged Nazi flying disc craft. I do not subscribe to that sort of stuff at all.

Originally posted by Melbourne_Militia
had Hitler managed to drop a crude nuclear bomb on Russian territory and/or one on London you can bet the war would have finished quick smart after that in Germany's favour and the world today would be a totally different place.

Then you should read the British CSDIC evidence of secretly taped conversations by Maj General Dornberger used against him at Nuremberg where Dornberger suggested the plan was to use V-2 rockets with what would today be termed tactical nuclear warheads (approx. 0.8 kt in this case) against London from October 1944.

The Nazis were planning a D-day of their own for October 1944 which also included mass deployment of Tabun B nerve gas both using nerve gas artillery shells against the Soviets and nerve gas via aerial bombs in the west.

The Allies were aware of this and paraded a sole B-29 bomber with which they overflew Germany in April 1944 to scare Hitler. It was sighted flying over Austria by the Nazis.

In July 1944 the Americans delivered a threat to the German legation at Lisbon that unless Hitler abandoned nuclear weapons and sued for peace in the next six weeks, Dresden would be bombed with a nuclear weapon.

The wheels fell of the US threat when the first batch of Plutonium from Haniford was heavily contaminated by Plutonium 240 and USA had to start again.

In the meantime however Hitler commenced negotiations with London via Romania's opposition forces with co-operation by Marshal Antonescu. During those secret talks Churchill threatened to use Anthrax against Germany if a single nuclear weapon were deployed on British soil. This also led to a secret Nazi capitulation with the western Allies contrary to the terms of the Alliance formed with Soviet Russia at San Francisco in 1942.

Thus it does not follow that if Nazi Germany had nuclear weapons they would have won the war. It appears the threat of the British using Anthrax altered the course of the war.

Incidentally I am in contact with the son in law of Dr Richter and learned through my friend Omar that Richter went to Lybia after Argentina which may account for a fear through the Cold war era that Lybia was acquiring nuclear weapons.

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
reply to post by sy.gunson

 

The furnaces were employed at the time in the reduction of Lithium for U-boat batteries. Richter discovered that the injection of heavy Hydrogen (Deuterium) caused a nuclear reaction which he could measure and gauge with Geiger counters.

I think Lithium can have induced radioactivity by many means but don't recall the German discover
of the fusion possibility.

Lets see the official word:
www.google.com...
lets add fusion:
www.google.com...
yes he was a leader in that area

Well I think German had a head start and by the 1940s definitely had a bomb developed
somewhere.

Then you need to read more widely don't you?....
Just because you don't know something does not make it so...

Richter's work on Plasma Pinches

Originally posted by Melbourne_Militia
reply to post by sy.gunson

 

so you saying theres a chance that the Germans may have actually tested some of these bombs? interesting...

I heard a rumour years ago that Hitler may have had one in his eagles Nest Lair to detonate rather than surrender but never got around to it.....

be interesting to know if there might be any still lying around in hidden bunkers in germany? that could pose a few problems for the authorities.

According to one Nazi scientist writing from exile in Argentina, Germany completed 15 nuclear weapons during WW2 and two of these fell into Soviet hands.

There were apparently two test blasts at Rugen in October 1944, two at Ohrdruf in March 1945 and it also seems an aerial drop occurred over a forest above Starnberger Lake Bavaria associated with an SS project Hexenkessel.

good thread, thanks guy, I love WWII, one of my passions and this is interesting information to say the least thank you.

reply to post by sy.gunson


Afaik the blasts you cite have been thermobaric bomb tests, not nuclear.

German physical institute tested samples from Ohrdruf. The only radioactive traces they've found have been from the Chernobyl fallout. Original source (german): www.ptb.de...

Originally posted by moebius
reply to post by sy.gunson

 

Afaik the blasts you cite have been thermobaric bomb tests, not nuclear.

German physical institute tested samples from Ohrdruf. The only radioactive traces they've found have been from the Chernobyl fallout. Original source (german): www.ptb.de...

I think people should remember the political environment. The regime was crumbling, starting to lose a war with their racially inferior enemies, with the political system built on lies, tyranny, hysteria, paranoia and fear. It would not be surprising if somebody obtained some partial information and in order to please their party bosses (failure meant a retirement party with the Gestapo) they lied about the progress, saying that a large thermobaric bomb was a nuke.

Originally posted by moebius
reply to post by sy.gunson

 

Afaik the blasts you cite have been thermobaric bomb tests, not nuclear.

German physical institute tested samples from Ohrdruf. The only radioactive traces they've found have been from the Chernobyl fallout. Original source (german): www.ptb.de...

As far as you know... precisely, the limits of your knowledge.

In actual fact the soil samples taken at Ohrdruf lacked the fission track traces of Xenon-135 poisoning which was known to have occurred at Chernobyl.

Also the PTB will not disclose the depth in the soil at which the caesium 137 was discovered... whether it was 0.5cm deep or 2.5cm deep. If the former then it might have been Chernobyl, were it the latter then it was 1945 era however PTB refuses to release actual detail so the data can be debated. What have they got to hide?

Originally posted by mbkennel

Originally posted by moebius
reply to post by sy.gunson

 

Afaik the blasts you cite have been thermobaric bomb tests, not nuclear.

German physical institute tested samples from Ohrdruf. The only radioactive traces they've found have been from the Chernobyl fallout. Original source (german): www.ptb.de...

I think people should remember the political environment. The regime was crumbling, starting to lose a war with their racially inferior enemies, with the political system built on lies, tyranny, hysteria, paranoia and fear. It would not be surprising if somebody obtained some partial information and in order to please their party bosses (failure meant a retirement party with the Gestapo) they lied about the progress, saying that a large thermobaric bomb was a nuke.

edit on 22-8-2013 by mbkennel because: (no reason given)

And you fail to reflect the historical context in your own answer.

Dr Zippermayer who developed the liquid oxygen coal dust thermobaric bomb and later went on to develop a hybrid nuclear weapon clearly distinguished between the nuclear weapon and the thermobaric bomb tested near Berlin August 1943. Nazi historical references clearly distinguished thermobaric weapons from nuclear

The Zippermayer nuclear weapon tested above lake Starnberger was different in methodology from the Schumann Trinks bomb tested at Rugen which used a plasma pinch hollow charge system.

I have been in correspondence with Omar Dipasquale widowed husband of Monique Richter daughter to Dr Ronald Richter and there is much the various commentators about Richter's life do not know, yet are quick to judge him on. He was called a fraud because officially in 1951 it was thought impossible to create controlled nuclear fusion.

Nowadays we know differently.

Richter was experimenting with reversed field plasma pinches which he developed at the University of Prague from Dec 1942 to December 1944. The phenomenon of Plasma Pinches were first observed in 1904 by Dickerson, but Richter developed a doctoral thesis about the subject in 1935 and reserched it in an electric arc furnace with lithium ions in 1936.

Richter injected Deuterium into a Plasma of Lithium 6 enriched Lithium to cause nuclear fusion thus producing Tritium.

If Richter was a fraud then so too is every physicist who has ever worked at CERN because the alleged fraud was the claim in March 1951 that Richter had demonstrated nuclear fusion. He did so with giant DC induction coils creating a Pinch effect. This is now accepted as a quite simple straight forward method, but it was not patented in the US until 1993.

reply to post by sy.gunson


Wow, that is a rather disappointing reply.

From my "limited" knowledge xe-135 has a half-life about 9 hours. You'd have a rather hard time to find anything above ground levels by now. Feel free to prove me wrong by citing a source that shows anything but increased cs-137 levels since Chernobyl anywhere in Germany or neighboring countries.

And of course you had to fall back to the typical thought-terminating PTB cliche. Sigh...

Anyway, if you allow me a minor suggestion for your future threads. Please state in the OP that you are not interested in any critical discussion, so that guys like me can just move along without wasting their time.

Originally posted by sy.gunson
I have been in correspondence with Omar Dipasquale widowed husband of Monique Richter daughter to Dr Ronald Richter and there is much the various commentators about Richter's life do not know, yet are quick to judge him on. He was called a fraud because officially in 1951 it was thought impossible to create controlled nuclear fusion.

Nowadays we know differently.

Richter was experimenting with reversed field plasma pinches which he developed at the University of Prague from Dec 1942 to December 1944. The phenomenon of Plasma Pinches were first observed in 1904 by Dickerson, but Richter developed a doctoral thesis about the subject in 1935 and reserched it in an electric arc furnace with lithium ions in 1936.

Richter injected Deuterium into a Plasma of Lithium 6 enriched Lithium to cause nuclear fusion thus producing Tritium.

If Richter was a fraud then so too is every physicist who has ever worked at CERN because the alleged fraud was the claim in March 1951 that Richter had demonstrated nuclear fusion. He did so with giant DC induction coils creating a Pinch effect. This is now accepted as a quite simple straight forward method, but it was not patented in the US until 1993.

Oh, making fusion isn't unbelievable. Making a chain reaction nuclear weaopn is.

Unfortunately mbkennel you cite the limits of your knowledge as your authority for dismissing my claims.

If I were as ignorant on a topic I would not be proclaiming it so loudly as you do.

Clearly you are unaware that prior to 1948 with the inclusion of Prof. Kurt Diebner under Operation Paperclip in 1948 the United States did not have a clue how to either boost the yield of the Mark 3 (Nagasaki) bomb, nor did the United States know how to miniaturise nuclear weapons. The improvements to the Mark 3 were attributed to a man named Christie however he learned how from Diebner.

Clearly you know nothing of Operation Greenhouse.

Who taught the French how to build plasma pinch third generation nuclear weapons?

The French learned from former NAZI Heereswaffenamt General Dr Eric Schumann how to build miniaturised nuclear weapons before the Americans knew how and before this Schumann had published details of a hollow charge plasma pinch nuclear weapon even before the United States demonstrated one.

Described in 1948/49 – by Erich Schumann "The Truth about the German work and suggestions on the Nuclear Energy problem (1939 - 45)"”. The manuscript contains II references and construction suggestions on the ignition of fusion reactions in the chapter.

Where or how did these former Nazi nuclear scientists acquire such knowledge before the Americans did in the immediate postwar years.

Your ignorant is impressive mbkennel but the true facts eclipse your ignorance by an order of magnitude far greater.

Originally posted by moebius
reply to post by sy.gunson

 

Wow, that is a rather disappointing reply.

From my "limited" knowledge xe-135 has a half-life about 9 hours. You'd have a rather hard time to find anything above ground levels by now. Feel free to prove me wrong by citing a source that shows anything but increased cs-137 levels since Chernobyl anywhere in Germany or neighboring countries.

And of course you had to fall back to the typical thought-terminating PTB cliche. Sigh...

Anyway, if you allow me a minor suggestion for your future threads. Please state in the OP that you are not interested in any critical discussion, so that guys like me can just move along without wasting their time.

edit on 23-8-2013 by moebius because: fix typo

You selectively read only that which you wished to address.... I said Xenon 135 fission track which relates to the fission products of Xenon 135.

it is known that the Chernobyl reactor underwent excessive Xenon poisoning before it exploded and the xenon later decayed through Iodine 135 and a fission track to various decay products the ratio of which can be measured by their ratio with one another to pinpoint exactly when in the past they were created.

Firstly these tell tale fission products were not present in samples at Ohrdruf and had they been so available they could have been analysed to give a pinpoint accurate time of creation for the soil contamination.

Either such testing was not performed by PTB,,,, suggesting an incompetent investigation, or else there were no such fission decay products present, either way PTB will not comment or disclose raw data.

That is not a scientific analysis by PTB. That is PR stunt job for the German Government

reply to post by sy.gunson


I don't think we actually disagree, other with the notion that the Germans successfully had produced and tested actual nuclear weaponry. Obviously they did have a nuclear weapons program and some of their scientists could be useful additions to the US.

How does a a pinch fusion nuclear weapon work?

Flawed Ohrdruf PTB report

Iodine 135 and Xenon 135 are part of a fission track leading back to a radioactive event which can be traced chronologically according to the respective quantities of decay products. It relies on measuring the relative quantities of a basket of elements in a sample related to each other by a radioactive decay chain. This is the only accurate way to develop a precise time of origin for a radioactive event.

In a fission track analysis one follows the logical decay process until it reaches a stable element that will no longer fission by decay. As correctly noted Xenon -135 has a very short half life. It is intensely radioactive, but radiation is actually a process of decay so Iodine -135 decays to Xenon -135 then to Caesium -135 etc, until a stable element Barium -135 is reached and then the decay process halts.

In any fission track and there are many, all unique sets and subsets of father and daughter elements.

Due to radioactive half lives you will always find a small portion perhaps very minute, of decay product which are still radioactive even if most is stable. By measurement of the ratio of the stable decay product versus the remaining unstable decay products present one arrives at a value which identifies the original event giving birth to those products.

For example if there were fall-out from Chernobyl the ratio between Caesium 135 and Barium 135 if present would chronologically date the origin back to Chernobyl, but the PTB report mentions no such details.

The PTB methodology simply ignored fission track analysis and focused exclusively on gamma emission by Uranium 235 in soil samples. Gamma emission analysis at Hiroshima would no longer detect the explosion of 6th August 1945.

When the same gamma emission methodology used by the PTB for its analysis of soil samples from Ohrdruf were also used on soil samples from Hiroshima in 1983 in a study by Jun Takada, Masaharu Hoshi, Showswada and Masanobu Sakanoue, their results could not distinguish Uranium 235 at Hiroshima from natural background levels either.

Thus if the PTB's methodology could not detect Uranium 235 at Hiroshima where there was a verified historic nuclear explosion how could the PTB methods be expected to detect Uranium from a nuclear detonation at Ohrdruf either?

The PTB report focused on just one thing and that was gamma activity from Uranium 235 in soil samples. High energy gamma activity in soil samples drops off remarkably quickly after a detonation to undetectable levels and then one must look for the ratio between beta and gamma emissions, or the ratio between various decay products present in the sample.

The PTB published little quantifiable data from their study and what was cited, gave no context with stable decay products present and cited no relation to any other meaningful data.

The PTB report on radioactive contamination found in 8 soil samples from Ohrdruf was commissioned by a public broadcast TV station ZDF using public taxpayer funding and was also procured from a publicly taxpayer funded research institute yet neither PTB nor the TV station are prepared to release the research data to the public.

Why so much secrecy from a publicly funded report?

Although a summary of the report has been published, its raw data, or conclusions cannot be contested because the summary does not cite any quantifiable data. That is not a scientific approach.

It is simply an opinionated sham report designed to use the authority of the PTB institute to impress the ignorant and silence debate. It capitalises on widespread public ignorance of radiochemistry to give a false impression of the authority of its claims.

The PTB report cannot be cited as an authority because it publishes no worthwhile quantifiable, nor contestable data. The PTB report failed to conduct appropriate tests of other radioactive decay products in the sample which could have answered the question conclusively.

The presence of Cobolt 60 with