A Little Clarification on the Mr Tappin Extradition From The UK to The USA Required

I am not sure if you are familiar with Mr Tappins case but thought I would throw this out there. Mr Tappin has been acused by the USA of selling missile technology to the Iranians to the amount of $500, he is facing many years in prison.

That said however, UK law emphatically states that we may never extradite to a country that advocates torture or sends people to prison without due process.

Now that the NDAA law has passed in the USA it is illegal for the UK government to extradite to the US, is this not correct?

Thanks for the help.

reply to post by TheMindWar


I'm not sure, but personally I think It's sick how we can extradite this man who is obviously a victim in this case, and when we want to extradite the likes of Abu Qatada, we seem powerless.

I agree, it's absolutely disgusting that this poor man has been extradited to a country where he has no chance whatsoever of getting a fair and honest trial.
This extradition treaty is and always has been one sided, they can have our citizens extradited at will yet theirs are protected from it. Look how many 'on the run' terrorists they are harbouring from us whilst having our citizens including elderly and mentally ill people extradited with virtually no rights at all.
All just more proof that their forces are indeed an occupation force in our country, it is high time that we the people of the UK rose up and put them out.

reply to post by TheMindWar


Let's get this into perspective! Mr Tappin is a businessman who tried to sell batteries for IRANIAN MISSILES.

In other words, he tried to make money out of business that would militarily empower a great enemy of the west.

He should count his lucky stars. In former years he might have been hanged for treason.

They are using him as an example to deter other businessmen from treasonous acts of making money by weakening us and strengthening our enemies. Remember the case of Mark Thatcher et al?

Business must engage in moral pratices and not endanger one's nation and the nations of one's allies.

Mr Tappin may have committed an act that would have endangered many many millions of people! Let us remember that.

By all means keep the pressure on that he gets a fair deal from the U.S Courts, But we need to get to the bottom of this issue. A clear message needs to go out to all businessmen not to play the whore. You cannot be allowed to put your own nation is such danger for a few bucks!

Good post. Thank you.

Conspiracy in its self how a man of his status would sell Iran anything in this climate, let alone for a tiny fortune of £500. I think the rabbit hole goes very deep on this incident, I just don't know where to start looking.

We're not allowed to extradite a known, actual, real terrorist because of EU legislation of human rights, but we can extradite a well respected citizen to america for something, which seems he was set up for.

Stinks to the high heavens and I'm sick to death of my country been a walking mat, given any of the situations been the other way round, he wouldnt of been extradited+ to England from America and the terrorist would of been sent here from any other country on the globe.

Makes me sick how our politicians just back down, grow a fkin back bone for the sake of our people, not politicians 5,000 miles away - just another perfect example, of many, that shows how our people have no voice and the last word is spoken by the politicians.

When we say no or yes - it should happen. Who shouldn't be given an illusion of choice when in all realness, we do not count.

reply to post by Revolution9


The issue is much more about the extradition treaty, sure MAYBE Mr Tappin done something wrong but he has been sent to a foreign country with a dubious judicial system with no rights to appeal the extradition.
This is not what the UK is supposed to stand for, it is fact that the USA is harbouring convicted terrorists and refuse to extradite them to us, what is the excuse for this?

Originally posted by Revolution9
reply to post by TheMindWar

 

Let's get this into perspective! Mr Tappin is a businessman who tried to sell batteries for IRANIAN MISSILES.

In other words, he tried to make money out of business that would millitarily empower a great enemy of the west.

He should count his lucky stars. In former years he might have been hanged for treason.

They are using him as an example to deter other businessmen from treasonous acts of making money by weakening us and strengthening our enemies. Remember the case of Mark Thatcher et al?

Business must engage in moral pratices and not endanger one's nation and the nations of one's allies.

Mr Tappin may have committed an act that would have endangered many many millions of people! Let us remember that.

By all means keep the pressure on that he gets a fair deal from the U.S Courts, But we need to get to the bottom of this issue. A clear message needs to go out to all businessmen not to play the whore. You cannot be allowed to put your own nation is such danger for a few bucks!

Good post. Thank you.

edit on 25-2-2012 by Revolution9 because: spelling

edit on 25-2-2012 by Revolution9 because: spelling

edit on 25-2-2012 by Revolution9 because: more spelling

Its not quite so clear cut. You need to look into the complexities of the ITAR regulations, dual use technology and re-selling. Its a barely comprehensible bureaucratic nightmare.

The moral of the story is don't deal in american technology, not unless you are part of a mega-corp with a huge legal team behind you.

reply to post by Revolution9



He didnt say, here Mr Ahmadinejad, heres £500 worth of batteries. . . He didnt sell the items direct, he owns a company that sold them to a sub contacted company which was Iranian.


Maybe America should start locking people up in their own country who finance terrorist to take down regimes? until this one sided system stops, I think America has 0 rights of taking our citizens. Its o.k for America to finance terrorist that are deemed a threat to many nations across the globe - in the name of democracy, but yet if the other way round - our citizens can be sent to America for trial?

Hmmmm. No.

America is a bully and its even worse that our politicians back down like lap dogs. Lucky they do because our nations citizens have nothing nice to say to this two sides 'friendship'

reply to post by Revolution9


Batteries can be used for lots of things, uninterrupted power supplies, generators, trucks or pretty much anything that consumes electricity. Is it reasonable that every component that may have a military application get sanctioned? What kind of things are left to trade and is that enough for social stability and international relations?

Originally posted by n00bUK
Conspiracy in its self how a man of his status would sell Iran anything in this climate, let alone for a tiny fortune of £500. I think the rabbit hole goes very deep on this incident, I just don't know where to start looking.

We're not allowed to extradite a known, actual, real terrorist because of EU legislation of human rights, but we can extradite a well respected citizen to america for something, which seems he was set up for.

Stinks to the high heavens and I'm sick to death of my country been a walking mat, given any of the situations been the other way round, he wouldnt of been extradited+ to England from America and the terrorist would of been sent here from any other country on the globe.

Makes me sick how our politicians just back down, grow a fkin back bone for the sake of our people, not politicians 5,000 miles away - just another perfect example, of many, that shows how our people have no voice and the last word is spoken by the politicians.

When we say no or yes - it should happen. Who shouldn't be given an illusion of choice when in all realness, we do not count.

So what do you think the real motive is for his extradition? The U.K government, The E.U and the U.S government seem to believe he has done something very naughty. There is never smoke without fire.

If you will allow me just to state a theory (and that is all it is): Is it that Israel are really annoyed with what Mr Tappin has done like they were when British businessmen tried to sell Saddam Hussein components for his "supergun". If you study that case you will see that there were assassinations of businessmen before. Atleast now the courts are involved with every opportunity for true justice to be served (perhaps that is too idealistic though).

My instinct tells me he has done something that has really annoyed the U.S.

Yet, like you say, there are terrorists in the UK who should be deported and extradited. They are a real threat to the U.K and her allies. This is very serious stuff. We don't like it when these things happen, but in reality there are limitted means of dealing with such issues in law. As I learn more I am beginning to appreciate the reason why new legislation has been created because terrorism is a very real threat to us.

Look how the people of Afghanistan have reacted to just a few books being burned. They act irrationally and hysterically. Just because a few books have been burned already scores of people have died as a result of protests. That is what we are up against. I don't like it one bit, but I do empathise with the authorities on this score and do believe they are acting in the best interests of the people they represent.

We have all got to stop doing our own governments down as we are weakening ourselves. I am not prepared to weaken or unstabilise my own government while we have such threats of terrorism on our doorstep. We know all about this in the UK. We had to put up with the IRA bombing our people and even our own government. Horrible!

I do not think that they would have extradited him over £500.00 of parts. I think there is much more under the surface and once he is tried we will have all the facts. As it stands, as in all court cases, information cannot come out in the open because it can ruin the defense's case or the prosecutor's case.

Interesting overview here.

friends-extradited.org...



www.bbc.co.uk...



www.anorak.co.uk...

In 2006, Robert Gibson, a British client, asked him to ship five industrial batteries at a cost of $25,000 from Texas to an automotive company in Amsterdam.bUnknown to Gibson, the vendor, Mercury Global Enterprises (MGE) of El Paso, was a front company set up by the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency to entrap businessmen engaged in the illegal export of controlled technologies. Gibson was arrested that August when he went to inspect the batteries. He was accused of attempting to send them to Iran for use in Hawk air defence missiles. Gibson named Mr Tappin as a co-conspirator, said that they were to share the profits from the battery sales, and provided allegedly incriminating evidence. He was handed a two-year sentence.

Originally posted by n00bUK
reply to post by Revolution9

 

He didnt say, here Mr Ahmadinejad, heres £500 worth of batteries. . . He didnt sell the items direct, he owns a company that sold them to a sub contacted company which was Iranian.


Maybe America should start locking people up in their own country who finance terrorist to take down regimes? until this one sided system stops, I think America has 0 rights of taking our citizens. Its o.k for America to finance terrorist that are deemed a threat to many nations across the globe - in the name of democracy, but yet if the other way round - our citizens can be sent to America for trial?

Hmmmm. No.

America is a bully and its even worse that our politicians back down like lap dogs. Lucky they do because our nations citizens have nothing nice to say to this two sides 'friendship'

As reality stands I agree that this is how it is. Really really sad. I am going to hold my tongue until the facts come out more. I am very fascinated by this case and am wondering why the British Government, the E.U and U.S are so "on" this.

I am just trying to think in a moral, logical and real way about the world we live in. I am not willing to entertain trendy ideas any longer. In this world there are two choices; "order" and "chaos". May be some people like chaos, but I like order, safety, human rights and justice, too.

I am still very much a supporter of the U.S, U.K, Israel, E.U allegiance. I think we really need to think about keeping ourselves strong in the west. I know from history that weakness is always conquered; we have China and Russia to compete with. If we play into their hands we also will have to put up with dictates from them; I don't admire the human rights records of either of these and prefer even a "corrupted" west to that. Sorry!

Originally posted by blupblup
Interesting overview here.

friends-extradited.org...



www.bbc.co.uk...



www.anorak.co.uk...

In 2006, Robert Gibson, a British client, asked him to ship five industrial batteries at a cost of $25,000 from Texas to an automotive company in Amsterdam.bUnknown to Gibson, the vendor, Mercury Global Enterprises (MGE) of El Paso, was a front company set up by the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency to entrap businessmen engaged in the illegal export of controlled technologies. Gibson was arrested that August when he went to inspect the batteries. He was accused of attempting to send them to Iran for use in Hawk air defence missiles. Gibson named Mr Tappin as a co-conspirator, said that they were to share the profits from the battery sales, and provided allegedly incriminating evidence. He was handed a two-year sentence.

Thanks for that research. That opens up the view a little more! Did Mr Tappin's partner sell him out for a reduced sentence? Is Mr Tappin the scapegoat?

Yet why would the U.S authorities do that? What would be their motive for deliberately trapping unknowing parties? Is it perhaps just a means that they can justify all the legislation and have "easy" cases (with no political fallout Internationally) as statistics to demonstrate the "success" of particular legislation???

Originally posted by biggilo
reply to post by Revolution9

 

The issue is much more about the extradition treaty, sure MAYBE Mr Tappin done something wrong but he has been sent to a foreign country with a dubious judicial system with no rights to appeal the extradition.
This is not what the UK is supposed to stand for, it is fact that the USA is harbouring convicted terrorists and refuse to extradite them to us, what is the excuse for this?

Yep! I agree with that. It is a mess. There is no excuse for it. You are right. I would say that the U.K and U.S need to clarify all this and develop much fairer and more effective conduct. Yes, it must work both ways. If there is any individual in the U.S who has been a criminal in the U.K we must have equal scope to have them extradited.

Just one final thought before I leave this very good thread: Remember that propaganda works both ways. Of course, Mr Tappin and all his associates will put it out defensive claims on behalf of their friend. I think those of us who are interested must follow this case very closely and keep the pressure on that justice is properly done. I will be doing that. As it stands we need to have the facts tried through the U.S court now and see what unfolds.

Thank you, gentleman. I'll come back later and see how the thread develops. Please believe me that I am just trying to give other sides so none of us are hoodwinked in anyway. A little devil advocacy can be a very good thing when debating issues.