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Rising gas prices are due to free market forces...

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posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 12:06 AM
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reply to post by mastahunta
 


Peak oil. More demand than supply means only the rich get to pay.




posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 12:07 AM
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Originally posted by Bugman82
reply to post by mastahunta
 



Ok, so if you assert that there is no free market in place -

Please agree with me that Speculation, that amounts to global extortion and high crimes should be
stopped, since the free market does not exist and therefore cannot be harmed, you should ZERO
problem agreeing with me there. Lets make it simple and we can go from this point because obviously
I am not communicating very well. So please entertain me

I want to see you type it


You're right about communication. I'm struggling to understand your points. Government intervention and Fed policy also increase extortion and crime in business as those that commit the fraud receive their beautiful bailouts at our expense. Are you having a hard time making the connection that corporate greed is endorsed when banks, corporations, and other large organizations can tear apart the lives of individuals but when they are about to fail as a result of their corruption, greed, bad business decisions, or whatever they will continue to have billions of dollars thrown their way so they never reap the consequences?


First off you did not make your stance on speculation clear, it is very key to what I
am trying to expose and explain.

Again, if Speculation is not a free market principle and the market is not free is it safe to
say that you're against Speculation and ready to support material action against the practice?
edit on 27-2-2012 by mastahunta because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 12:14 AM
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Originally posted by imherejusttoread

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
Clearly you want control over what you perceive is yours


That's my conclusion as well. Willful ignorance will often compel a person to use force/control to regulate what they don't understand, which would make sense considering the lack of third-party citations and conceptual precision in mastahunta's general dialogue about economics.


I think you guy do not understand.

I am speaking new ideas here, I think communism and the Free Market are both scams
thrust on society, both are based upon systems that don't function the way proponents
insist. I don't need third party citations, but if you need them I think you guys
should read Poet's posts and LErickson's post too.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 12:16 AM
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reply to post by Semicollegiate
 


Just because someone calls it free, doesn't mean that it is, usually it is a con.

The free market as put in place by the politicians who claim to support such a thing as a free market, aren't out to protect anyone's freedoms, they are out to cheat us out of our property by hook or by crook.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 12:18 AM
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Originally posted by Semicollegiate

Originally posted by poet1b

We have a transportation infrastructure designed around the consumption of gasoline. You are forced to buy gasoline because of the system in place, or endured extreme barriers in moving around in your community.

None of this was done freely.

This idealistic world you people describe as a free market does not exist, and never has existed.

By supporting free markets you people wind up supporting fraudulent business practices.

If you want to dream about free markets go ahead, but you need to recognize that the politicians who preach about free markets in fact are in support of getting rid of the rules that prevent fraudulent business practices, even RP.



So supporting freedom is like supporting crime? What fool would ever call for more freedom or liberty.


No, because you guys have already determined this is not a free market. Fine... So what you support
are a bunch of fakers who use the words and the talk to further corporatism, fraud and corruption.
I mean look at you, you have spent pages stating how this is not a free market environment, but
then you turn right around and allude to the fact that it is free...

Really man, make up your mind, if speculation isn't free market, you should be on my side.
edit on 27-2-2012 by mastahunta because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 12:22 AM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Semicollegiate
 


Just because someone calls it free, doesn't mean that it is, usually it is a con.

The free market as put in place by the politicians who claim to support such a thing as a free market, aren't out to protect anyone's freedoms, they are out to cheat us out of our property by hook or by crook.



Exactly my points, you really get it and I am glad someone does at least.

These guys think Speculation is not a free market principle, but oddly enough, none
have come out against it.
edit on 27-2-2012 by mastahunta because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 12:42 AM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Semicollegiate
 


Just because someone calls it free, doesn't mean that it is, usually it is a con.

The free market as put in place by the politicians who claim to support such a thing as a free market, aren't out to protect anyone's freedoms, they are out to cheat us out of our property by hook or by crook.



I agree that the politicians abuse the phrase "free trade" to the point past lying.

I think many here are also abusing the phrase "free trade" by ascribing to it markets that are not free markets.

Blaming the current markets on free trade is like claiming to have heroin addiction with out ever doing any drug.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 12:54 AM
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Originally posted by mastahunta

Originally posted by Semicollegiate

Originally posted by poet1b

We have a transportation infrastructure designed around the consumption of gasoline. You are forced to buy gasoline because of the system in place, or endured extreme barriers in moving around in your community.

None of this was done freely.

This idealistic world you people describe as a free market does not exist, and never has existed.

By supporting free markets you people wind up supporting fraudulent business practices.

If you want to dream about free markets go ahead, but you need to recognize that the politicians who preach about free markets in fact are in support of getting rid of the rules that prevent fraudulent business practices, even RP.



So supporting freedom is like supporting crime? What fool would ever call for more freedom or liberty.


No, because you guys have already determined this is not a free market. Fine... So what you support
are a bunch of fakers who use the words and the talk to further corporatism, fraud and corruption.
I mean look at you, you have spent pages stating how this is not a free market environment, but
then you turn right around and allude to the fact that it is free...

Really man, make up your mind, if speculation isn't free market, you should be on my side.
edit on 27-2-2012 by mastahunta because: (no reason given)


Why do you think that we (your antagonists) support this system? We do not. We simply say that the current system is not a free trade system. Free trade means no regulation and no artificial credit.

What you incorrectly call free trade has both.
edit on 27-2-2012 by Semicollegiate because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 01:01 AM
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Originally posted by Semicollegiate

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Semicollegiate
 


Just because someone calls it free, doesn't mean that it is, usually it is a con.

The free market as put in place by the politicians who claim to support such a thing as a free market, aren't out to protect anyone's freedoms, they are out to cheat us out of our property by hook or by crook.



I agree that the politicians abuse the phrase "free trade" to the point past lying.

I think many here are also abusing the phrase "free trade" by ascribing to it markets that are not free markets.

Blaming the current markets on free trade is like claiming to have heroin addiction with out ever doing any drug.


If you fully believe that, then you should have no problem condemning the extortion that exists
through speculation, because free markets don't exist, so stopping criminality is
a good thing in the mean time.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 01:08 AM
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reply to post by mastahunta
 


Condemming is long on time and short on results.

I think everyone should trade in facts rather than opinions. or at least axioms and postulates so that we know what people are really talking about.

It is their system, we just work in it.

We need to make our own system. That is the only future for free people.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 01:12 AM
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Originally posted by Semicollegiate

Why do you think that we (your antagonists) support this system? We do not. We simply say that the current system is not a free trade system. Free trade means no regulation and no artificial credit.

What you incorrectly call free trade has both.
edit on 27-2-2012 by Semicollegiate because: (no reason given)


Well in this thread, my antagonists have based their assertions on both sides depending upon which
side worked better for the particular point of contention. If you do not support regulation, then
why would you act as if ending Oil speculation is going to do anything to threaten a free market
you claim doesn't exist in the first place?



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 01:19 AM
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Originally posted by Semicollegiate
reply to post by mastahunta
 


Condemming is long on time and short on results.

I think everyone should trade in facts rather than opinions. or at least axioms and postulates so that we know what people are really talking about.

It is their system, we just work in it.

We need to make our own system. That is the only future for free people.



You response is an attempt to obscure your real feelings and your position.
I have a feeling all of you support speculation and consequently the price gouging,
but you realize that if you state it outright you will appear to proving the base
of my assertions correct. Speculation is a free market principle regardless of the
state of the entire economy or regulations that may exist in some or many areas.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 01:24 AM
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Originally posted by mastahunta

Originally posted by Semicollegiate

Why do you think that we (your antagonists) support this system? We do not. We simply say that the current system is not a free trade system. Free trade means no regulation and no artificial credit.

What you incorrectly call free trade has both.
edit on 27-2-2012 by Semicollegiate because: (no reason given)


Well in this thread, my antagonists have based their assertions on both sides depending upon which
side worked better for the particular point of contention. If you do not support regulation, then
why would you act as if ending Oil speculation is going to do anything to threaten a free market
you claim doesn't exist in the first place?


Because ending oil speculation requires another level of government control. Like drugs, laws and regulations have side effects in addition to the basic hassle of dealing with more rules.

There is no quick fix to our economy. Both democrats and republicans act like there is. Our Keyensian economy is so far from natural its like a life threatening addiction.

Any rule that you would devise will be side-stepped by the lawyered up biggies and make it harder for ordinary people to invest in whatever they can personally understand.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 01:33 AM
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Originally posted by Semicollegiate

Originally posted by mastahunta

Originally posted by Semicollegiate

Why do you think that we (your antagonists) support this system? We do not. We simply say that the current system is not a free trade system. Free trade means no regulation and no artificial credit.

What you incorrectly call free trade has both.
edit on 27-2-2012 by Semicollegiate because: (no reason given)


Well in this thread, my antagonists have based their assertions on both sides depending upon which
side worked better for the particular point of contention. If you do not support regulation, then
why would you act as if ending Oil speculation is going to do anything to threaten a free market
you claim doesn't exist in the first place?


Because ending oil speculation requires another level of government control. Like drugs, laws and regulations have side effects in addition to the basic hassle of dealing with more rules.

There is no quick fix to our economy. Both democrats and republicans act like there is. Our Keyensian economy is so far from natural its like a life threatening addiction.

Any rule that you would devise will be side-stepped by the lawyered up biggies and make it harder for ordinary people to invest in whatever they can personally understand.



Well the government should be used as a force for the electorate, I cannot see a better reason
than to stop the fleecing that is being perpetrated upon the entire country. Also, if you want
to fix the economy, don't you think ending price gouging that adds a premium onto all
transported good, would be a good start to better the economy.

I very much appreciate your truthfulness, it has been in short supply, I respect that
edit on 27-2-2012 by mastahunta because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 01:38 AM
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reply to post by mastahunta
 


Can you give a short description or hint at what Keynesianism is? It is the current economic system.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 01:45 AM
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reply to post by mastahunta
 


The goverment should protect rights and property. The government should never be proactive because it will accumulate power that way.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 01:49 AM
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Originally posted by Semicollegiate
reply to post by mastahunta
 


The goverment should protect rights and property. The government should never be proactive because it will accumulate power that way.


The government should also serve the people and not stand around while cartels siphon
off ridiculous sums of money based upon a non productive exercise of the Elites, banks and
bankers.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 01:55 AM
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Originally posted by Semicollegiate
reply to post by mastahunta
 


Can you give a short description or hint at what Keynesianism is? It is the current economic system.


Yes Keynes believed that the combination of centralized banking and regulatory policy would help
normalize and stabilize economic activity.
edit on 27-2-2012 by mastahunta because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 02:11 AM
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reply to post by Semicollegiate
 


Protecting our rights is the job of the government, and that means not allowing fraudulent business practices, and that is exactly what the oil derivative market is.

It would be nice if there was some magical system like a free market to prevent fraud, but their isn't. Dealing with fraudulent business practices is always going to be complicated because the con artists come up with vast numbers of schemes to cheat the system.

Allowing crooks to continue to prey on people because it is complicated, and means government it going to have to use its power to stop these crimes, is not acceptable or reasonable.

Either you take a stand for justice, or the ICBs are going to turn us all into slaves.

Are you going to allow your desire for a free market prevent you from fighting for your liberty.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 02:18 AM
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reply to post by mastahunta
 



The government should also serve the people and not stand around while cartels siphon
off ridiculous sums of money based upon a non productive exercise of the Elites, banks and
bankers.


Exactly, and what I see is that this belief in a free market has a lot of people paralyzed, unwilling to use government for the purpose that it was founded to serve, which is to protect our rights.

Establishing a free market as those on this thread describe would be a nice thing, but turning the control of our nation over to the bankers in an attempt to create free markets is not acceptable. Wake up people and start defending your liberties people.



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