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Rising gas prices are due to free market forces...

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posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 10:36 PM
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people who died mysteriously for alternative energy.


www.google.com... for+alternative+energy&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=12&gs_upl=2674l19520l0l21545l23l23l0l0l0l0l284l2179l18.4.1l23l0




posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by hawkiye

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by imherejusttoread
 


Here is a good start for you.

www.investinganswers.com...

If you bother to start doing your own research, you will find they stopped publishing sweet light crude production in 2008 when oil production peaked on planet Earth. After about a decade of SA pumping sea water into their wells to maintain oil production.


You need to get your facts straight this was updated in 2008 not a dacade ago. I don't care what they published you should take a drive to North Dakota and Montana it is booming in those areas with new wells being drilled almost daily! Its a modern day gold rush. And the numbers in the geological survey have not changed either so what was your point?


Ok so I drive there and there is a boatload of folks drilling holes in the ground. Nice they are employing folks. However, if they have to get the oil prices to 120 a barrel to pay for it, with all americans paying 3.75 -5.00 a gallon, they have done their job and we are paying it. Heres to you and your free market, piss off.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 10:44 PM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 


You will find me jumping all over the problems with current elitist liberals all the time on these boards. I don't support their ignorance anymore than I support conservative ignorance.

I seem to recall us being on the same side in those debates.

At what point in time do you start to face the proven facts that free market strategies do not work?



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 10:47 PM
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Originally posted by hawkiye

Originally posted by mastahunta

Originally posted by hawkiye


Did it never occur to you that Oil companies and insiders are NOT FOR FREE MARKETS? They simply use the "Free Market"...


DING DING DING!

Yes, so why do you guys assist them with your rhetorical support?

That is exactly how it always translates, it is like the worlds biggest joke. The
conservative politicians who cry free market are not for free markets either.
But you guys can't seem to extricate your own brains from the brain washing
they do.

Wall street just dumped loads into deregulating and removing more Wall Street laws.
Guess who champions that politically, Hawkiye?

So 1,500 cheering Republicans at the debates don't seem to mind that Wall Street is
USING FREE MARKET principles to benefit their positions as you put it. So how
the hell can anyone tell when it is fake "Free Market" if everyone cheers and gets all cross
eyed when the words are spoken?

the whole things is a giant farce... This is exactly why I started this thread, so this aspect can
see some light. I am going to write more and more of these and ask the same question
over and over.


First of all you seem a little slow here. Why are you assuming I am for republicans and being brain washed? Your the one claiming they are using free market principles when they are doing nothing f the kind. You are the one perpetuating the lie that is it a free market not me. I am correcting the lie. You are the one disseminating misinformation along with them that we in fact have a free market and it is the problem when we in fact do not have free markets and that is not the problem. You are the one perpetuating the left right divide they use to keep the masses distracted.



First OFF, oil speculation is a free market principle, if there was a law against it, then it
would not exist and it would not be free would it?

Second, most of you who are 100% wild eyed for free markets don't seem to care about the
way the Free Market idea is abused. Oddly enough it is the conservative politicians who us
the Free Market monicer to get elected and then engineer loopholes they like to call
deregulation which specifically benefit, specific corporations. So with that in mind, you
guys are the ones who have to take great care in the way you perceive things, or the
corporation that latch onto your ideas will ruin it forever. I do not buy it in the first place
so I have no burden trying to prove something I don't fully believe.




I can't help that there is still a bunch of idiot republicans buying the BS anymore then I can help the idiot democrats that buy their so called left BS. All I can do is keep speaking truth and the truth is real free markets work and I will not let the republicans hijack then term it nor allow the democrats to blame it for our problems when it does not even exist and has nothing to do with our problems and is in fact the answer to most of our problems. Yet you have people here like poet1b still buying this BS rhetoric and blaming free markets as the problem.

And by the way there is one man speaking the truth in the debates and he is Ron Paul and the brainwashed republicans and democrats hate him for exposing the BS on both sides!


But you see, the line in the sand is pretty sad because virtually all the free market proponents in the
mainstream have a pro corporate agenda first and foremost, which means Free Market is nothing
more than a slogan used to perpetuate corrupted actions.

I mean if I was a politician talking about free markets as a solution to a problem, how do you know that
I am not just engineering a hole to create fraudulent practices for my campaign donors? Because
sorry to say, I think that is 99% of the time.

FREE MARKET!!! (dump poison into the ground water)

FREE MARKET!!! (Rescinds insurance policy for terminally ill patients)

FREE MARKET!!! (Shut off the power plant for a day to create an artificial SUPPLY shortage)

FREE MARKETS!!! (Makes it legal to change contracts sight unseen after they are already signed!)

I mean at every turn it is used to cheat people and shirk responsibility.

When a politician says free markets I actually cover my backside, why do any of you expect anything
different for the love of everything?



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 10:49 PM
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Originally posted by bobw927
people who died mysteriously for alternative energy.


www.google.com... for+alternative+energy&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=12&gs_upl=2674l19520l0l21545l23l23l0l0l0l0l284l2179l18.4.1l23l0


Where is IAMJUSTHERETOREAD???
Just wait... 5-4-3-2-1

Can you prove it?

Do you have photos?

You must be lazy and retarded!

Look at the moon, it is so pretty!

Make your own technology sport

Technology is for weak people

----------------------------------

Nice link, Thanks!



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 10:51 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


I am a social liberal/fiscal conservative, and from observation the conservatives/republicans start listening to the music when it bites them in the wallet. I am a firm believer of "There is no common sense on the right, there is no common sense on the left, the common sense lies in the middle."



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 10:52 PM
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reply to post by BubbaJoe
 


From my research, world oil production is about to take a huge drop, most likely in the next year, maybe in the next, possibly a second, but most likely in 2012, and gas prices are going to double if not triple shortly afterwards, and we will be force to retool our nations infrastructure.

Sadly, my predictions tend to be pretty accurate.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 10:53 PM
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Originally posted by mastahunta

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by mastahunta


Pay us, or you can't drive?

I am not asking for free gas here man, I am asking that we should not have to pay for some
gambling scheme invented by billionaires. What is the use of it to any of us?

 


Well, technically you could carpool, take a bus, train or some other type of transit. In most places in North America, for some reason that's socially unacceptable. In some cases not entirely feasible, but regardless it isn't very popular.


So you are really telling me that my only choice is stop driving?

Listen to the brunt of your argument ; Mastahunta you are free to to be forced to stop driving?
That is my option...

why not?," lets stop speculation "!!! You would benefit to, wouldn't you?



Oil speculation are fancy words for "take advantage of any and all possible reasons to raise the price of a barrel".

Iran threatens to limit it's supply and the damn price goes up. Angry words fly from somewhere else and it goes up again.
Saudi Arabia a few weeks ago said they'd make up for any diminished supply from Iran and they were forced to drop the price per barrel. Now just recently Saudi Arabia said they weren't going to that and prices went up.

We're being taken advantage of, because oil/gasoline is the one commodity that we all need to take as it is offered. It is not free market economics. It is a bunch of greedy bastards at the top.

edit: If pork prices rise, we can eat chicken, beef, or tofu. If a million people wanted to buy 1 of only 100,000 designer shoelaces, the prices would go up. If nobody bought the shoelaces, the prices would go down.
If company A had the better french fries, more customers would eat there than company B.
That is how a free market works. Oil must be taken out of the equation since it is in essence monopolized. Every gas station in an area agrees to a keep their prices roughly the same. That is not free market. Consumers have no choice in the matter.
edit on 25-2-2012 by primus2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 10:53 PM
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reply to post by BubbaJoe
 


I already put you on my friends list, and I will be watching for any threads you start, or participate in.

Welcome to ATS.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by BubbaJoe
 


From my research, world oil production is about to take a huge drop, most likely in the next year, maybe in the next, possibly a second, but most likely in 2012, and gas prices are going to double if not triple shortly afterwards, and we will be force to retool our nations infrastructure.

Sadly, my predictions tend to be pretty accurate.




that's gonna suck real bad...

You know, if America doesn't lead the way here pretty soon we are gonna get left
behind by people who get it. It will be the first time in our history that we didn't lead
the way and chart the new corse.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 11:01 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by imherejusttoread
 


Here is a good start for you.

www.investinganswers.com...


That article doesn't say anything except that supply and demand determines the price and production of the oil; it also says by 2035, not that we have used up all the convenient sources of oil because oil is never easy nor cheap to get in the first place. It requires time and funding.

That just shows that government intervention/regulation in developing natural resources, like oil, and its free trade, is an even greater unnecessary complication, but i've come to the conclusion that oil reserve estimates are unreliable because governments are shady and here's a piece that claims shortages are nonsense (which, technically, they are because once demand goes up, supply adjusts its information and tempers consumption accordingly).



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 11:01 PM
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reply to post by mastahunta
 





First OFF, oil speculation is a free market principle, if there was a law against it, then it would not exist and it would not be free would it?


Dear Lord! Your proud ignorance is something to behold. Not that you will bother to read this link, or do you own research and read the works of Murray Rothbard or Milton Friedman to get a better understanding of what free markets are, you seem to be too gleeful in your "if there ain't a law outlawing it then it must be free" nonsense.


The Principle Stated: You are entitled to whatever you acquire through your own effort in a free market. Assumptions:

Individuals are free, equal, rational persons pursuing their own self-interest. That is, they are free to act according to their own choices; this freedom is equally available to all participants; and they are using reason to determine what furthers their self-interest in their perceptions and actions.

There is fair and open competition. That is, individuals are competing with each other in circumstances where each has a fair chance to succeed--because no secret deals, preferences, deceptions, or information available only to a few give some an unfair advantage over others.

Supply and demand is the primary determinant of price. That is, the price of a product depends upon whether it is in greater or lesser supply (the greater the supply of the product available, the lower the price) and whether individuals acting freely want greater or lesser amounts of the product (the greater the demand, the higher the price).


These are free market principles and this is what you are blindly attacking while complaining, complaining, complaining, and then to make sure we all get your complaint raise it to a high pitched whine that oil cartels are the product of free markets. Sigh.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 11:02 PM
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reply to post by mastahunta
 





You know, if America doesn't lead the way here pretty soon we are gonna get left behind by people who get it. It will be the first time in our history that we didn't lead the way and chart the new corse.


There are bigger things to worry about...like Obama's 1000 fake birth certificates!!!

If you look closely, they are signed by the Devil!!
edit on 25-2-2012 by David9176 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 11:02 PM
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reply to post by mastahunta
 


I got a great idea for the redesign of the automobile that I think would blow peoples sock off.

I just need to sell this other patent and come up with some money. Its nice to dream.

The end of cheap oil, IMO, will be one of the best things to happen to the U.S..



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 11:03 PM
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Originally posted by mastahunta
Where is IAMJUSTHERETOREAD???
Just wait... 5-4-3-2-1

Can you prove it?

Do you have photos?

You must be lazy and retarded!

Look at the moon, it is so pretty!

Make your own technology sport

Technology is for weak people

----------------------------------

Nice link, Thanks!




Grow up.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 11:06 PM
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Hmmm....what choice do we have? I have a choice in my personal decisions. That's all that matters. And so do you, and you and the rest of us.....



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 11:10 PM
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reply to post by imherejusttoread
 


Actually the article says this.


When demand exceeds supply, rising price always settles the score. Simply put, the era of cheap oil is over. A sentiment echoed by Petrobras (NYSE: PBR) CEO Jose Sergio Gabrielli at Platts Global Energy Outlook Forum.


www.investinganswers.com...

$146 a barrel in 2035 is an extremely conservative guess. $246 would be a far better, although still conservative guess, depending on how world infrastructure changes. It could be $46 a barrel if new tech grossly reduced the demand for oil.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 11:11 PM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by mastahunta
 





First OFF, oil speculation is a free market principle, if there was a law against it, then it would not exist and it would not be free would it?


Dear Lord! Your proud ignorance is something to behold. Not that you will bother to read this link, or do you own research and read the works of Murray Rothbard or Milton Friedman to get a better understanding of what free markets are, you seem to be too gleeful in your "if there ain't a law outlawing it then it must be free" nonsense.


The Principle Stated: You are entitled to whatever you acquire through your own effort in a free market. Assumptions:

Individuals are free, equal, rational persons pursuing their own self-interest. That is, they are free to act according to their own choices; this freedom is equally available to all participants; and they are using reason to determine what furthers their self-interest in their perceptions and actions.

There is fair and open competition. That is, individuals are competing with each other in circumstances where each has a fair chance to succeed--because no secret deals, preferences, deceptions, or information available only to a few give some an unfair advantage over others.

Supply and demand is the primary determinant of price. That is, the price of a product depends upon whether it is in greater or lesser supply (the greater the supply of the product available, the lower the price) and whether individuals acting freely want greater or lesser amounts of the product (the greater the demand, the higher the price).


These are free market principles and this is what you are blindly attacking while complaining, complaining, complaining, and then to make sure we all get your complaint raise it to a high pitched whine that oil cartels are the product of free markets. Sigh.





I am familiar with the works of both and I disagree with their views in the same specific areas that
I disagree with the majority of posters here.

All of these ideas seem to be front loaded with the idea that

A. markets cannot be consolidated in a free market,
-SEE DRUG CARTELS in Mexico.

B. That large industries will always strive to compete themselves down to a small profit margin.
- Look at the price of a cup of coffee, more competition has increased the average retail cup
several 100% in the last 15 years. Same with bottled water, competition does not mean cheaper
prices, that is a fairy tale.

C. That large players do not and would not sabotage supply as a mutual business arrangement
to ensure higher profit margins.

These are just a few things about it that do not seem to work about the theory in my mind.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 11:11 PM
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I think it is more of an election cycle pattern. They double the price of gas six months before the election then drop it dueing the election so the sheeple will think be in a better mood when the pull the lever.

Pull up the historical price spikes and you will notice a pattern.

When did last approach 5$/gal in june'08, when the election came it was down to 1.80

2004 peaked at 2$ gal and that was considered high back then. money.cnn.com...


money.cnn.com...



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


JP, it took a phenomenal revolution where a rag tap group of rebels defeated the worlds greatest super power to create the first nation built on these principals.


Individuals are free, equal, rational persons pursuing their own self-interest.


Don't forget that. It didn't happen through some free market miracle.

I respect you man, but had to call you on this one.




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