Originally posted by popsmayhem
Originally posted by Wildbob77
reply to post by MDDoxs
I do not know what good could of came of this..
One less armed carjacker threatening to kill people over a 20 minute joy ride is on the streets, that's what good came out of this.edit on 24-2-2012 by Fitch303 because: (no reason given)
SHOCK VIDEO: Police gun down carjacking suspect on live TV , page 2
reply posted on 24-2-2012 @ 11:41 AM by MDDoxs
reply to post by Fitch303
I am not defending the guy, if you had read the entire thread, you would have seen my opinion in the very beginning.
Here it is if you dont know how to find
I am not defending the guy, if you had read the entire thread, you would have seen my opinion in the very beginning.
Here it is if you dont know how to find
Originally posted by MDDoxs
I would like to agree with your opinion. However, the only thing that is bugging me is that the vehicle was at a complete stand still.
Could the person have been scared realizing the position he was in and just froze trying to surrender? I am all for caution when determining the intentions of a percieved dangerous suspect, but they lit that car up. Perhaps if the car was about to drive away then i can see this happening, but being completely stopped, i am not to sure if the actions were justified.
Again i have no clue what the officers had observed, or previous knowledge they had on the suspect.
It all comes down to a judgement call.
My opinion is dont put yourself in situations like that and you wont get shot. I.e. dont commit crime lol
EDIT: However if you are going to commit crime, make sure your 100% sure you can get awayedit on 24-2-2012 by MDDoxs because: (no reason given)
edit on 24-2-2012 by MDDoxs because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 24-2-2012 @ 11:48 AM by popsmayhem
reply to post by MDDoxs
I get where your coming from.
I think if I were to going to give up,
I would throw both hands/arms out the window.
If we would of seen this guys hands and arms
out the window while they were shooting
then I would believe he WAS trying to surrender.
For atleast 15 seconds though, he did not do that.
I get where your coming from.
I think if I were to going to give up,
I would throw both hands/arms out the window.
If we would of seen this guys hands and arms
out the window while they were shooting
then I would believe he WAS trying to surrender.
For atleast 15 seconds though, he did not do that.
reply posted on 24-2-2012 @ 11:48 AM by Xcathdra
reply to post by popsmayhem
The gun issue - Dont fixate on that one action. That ending was built on his actions from the moment he carjacked up to the gas station.
By carjacking using a gun, twice, he demonstrated a lack of concern to the well being of the people in those cars as well as innocent bystanders.
Next part - Pursuit - Again he demonstrated complete disregard for the public as a whole. Speeding, running red lights, weaving in and out of traffic.
Stopping in the middle of the road then taking off again.
Gas station - Based on all of the above info, its going to be assumed the guy had a gun on him, regardless of where it actually is. This is based on the reports of an armed car jacking.
Shots fired - Because of his prior actions, the police must take into account other factors. First and foremost is public safety. The guy getting gas was told to get down and stay down. This was not done to force a deadly encounter, but to remove him from possibly becoming a last ditch victim or hostage.
Even if the suspect had no visible weapon in his hands doesn't mean he's not armed. Since the police aren't psychic, there is no way of knowing the guys intent. Because of that, as another poster pointed out, it is a judgment call.
The gun issue - Dont fixate on that one action. That ending was built on his actions from the moment he carjacked up to the gas station.
By carjacking using a gun, twice, he demonstrated a lack of concern to the well being of the people in those cars as well as innocent bystanders.
Next part - Pursuit - Again he demonstrated complete disregard for the public as a whole. Speeding, running red lights, weaving in and out of traffic.
Stopping in the middle of the road then taking off again.
Gas station - Based on all of the above info, its going to be assumed the guy had a gun on him, regardless of where it actually is. This is based on the reports of an armed car jacking.
Shots fired - Because of his prior actions, the police must take into account other factors. First and foremost is public safety. The guy getting gas was told to get down and stay down. This was not done to force a deadly encounter, but to remove him from possibly becoming a last ditch victim or hostage.
Even if the suspect had no visible weapon in his hands doesn't mean he's not armed. Since the police aren't psychic, there is no way of knowing the guys intent. Because of that, as another poster pointed out, it is a judgment call.
edit on 24-2-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason
given)
reply posted on 24-2-2012 @ 11:52 AM by MDDoxs
reply to post by popsmayhem
Its all about how people percieve things...
You throw your hands out the window trying to surrender, thinking this is the best course of action. Cops see your hands come out the window they might think they see a gun in your hand. Sometimes previous knowledge or experiences can influence our perceptions in the moment.
Again all this is just theorizing. We do not know what the cops saw or what they knew could happen.
Its all about how people percieve things...
You throw your hands out the window trying to surrender, thinking this is the best course of action. Cops see your hands come out the window they might think they see a gun in your hand. Sometimes previous knowledge or experiences can influence our perceptions in the moment.
Again all this is just theorizing. We do not know what the cops saw or what they knew could happen.
reply posted on 24-2-2012 @ 11:56 AM by popsmayhem
Originally posted by MDDoxs
reply to
Its all about how people percieve things...
You throw your hands out the window trying to surrender, thinking this is the best course of action. Cops see your hands come out the window they might think they see a gun in your hand. Sometimes previous knowledge or experiences can influence our perceptions in the moment.
Again all this is just theorizing. We do not know what the cops saw or what they knew could happen.
Yes, either way, this was not going to
have a happy ending.
I think if the officers would of seen the guys arms and hands out the window
he might not have gotten swiss cheesed.
If I was in the officers situation, I think
I would of done exactly what they did..
I would hate to have to make a decision like that.
They want to go home to their family to at night.
reply posted on 24-2-2012 @ 12:02 PM by ofhumandescent
reply to post by MDDoxs
Your right and now the media puts such a spin on stuff you have no way of knowing what really went on unless you were right there.
What I saw was a bunch of cops with really big guns surrounding and blowing away one man.
But the news media "SAYS" (and do we know they are telling the truth???) that the "suspect" was threatening to shoot innocent people in the 711.
Word of caution to would be criminals.
You will be out numbered.
"They" have helicopters, really big guns, tons of back up and will shoot to kill.
Do not run from "them", you won't get away, you will only piss them off worse.
Do not threaten anyone, particularly "one of their own" you will then have signed your death warrant
We live in a police state.
They have all the advantages.
If told to pull over
Pull over and keep your hands on the wheel (both of them)
Do exactly as you are told
If you value your life.
This is the way things are now.
I can see both sides to the story.
The police I personally have met have all been very nice to me, except during the early 70's when I was a protester against the Vietnam War. Even then they did not hurt me and I was in the front row. Intimidated me, yes with their shields and their billy clubs and big holstered guns.
Police now days come across so many nutty people, they do not know what to expect.
Yes some are power hungry ego maniacs.
Most are just doing their job and trying to maintain order.
This to me appeared to be a case of "over kill" but than do we really know the full story?
Are we really ever given the full true story?
I agree with Xcathdra's post. Once you do not stop, you run red lights, endanger fellow travelers on the road, you have gone past the point of a simple crime - you have crossed that line where you are a endangerment to the public - the police's choices are narrowed down.
Your right and now the media puts such a spin on stuff you have no way of knowing what really went on unless you were right there.
What I saw was a bunch of cops with really big guns surrounding and blowing away one man.
But the news media "SAYS" (and do we know they are telling the truth???) that the "suspect" was threatening to shoot innocent people in the 711.
Word of caution to would be criminals.
You will be out numbered.
"They" have helicopters, really big guns, tons of back up and will shoot to kill.
Do not run from "them", you won't get away, you will only piss them off worse.
Do not threaten anyone, particularly "one of their own" you will then have signed your death warrant
We live in a police state.
They have all the advantages.
If told to pull over
Pull over and keep your hands on the wheel (both of them)
Do exactly as you are told
If you value your life.
This is the way things are now.
I can see both sides to the story.
The police I personally have met have all been very nice to me, except during the early 70's when I was a protester against the Vietnam War. Even then they did not hurt me and I was in the front row. Intimidated me, yes with their shields and their billy clubs and big holstered guns.
Police now days come across so many nutty people, they do not know what to expect.
Yes some are power hungry ego maniacs.
Most are just doing their job and trying to maintain order.
This to me appeared to be a case of "over kill" but than do we really know the full story?
Are we really ever given the full true story?
I agree with Xcathdra's post. Once you do not stop, you run red lights, endanger fellow travelers on the road, you have gone past the point of a simple crime - you have crossed that line where you are a endangerment to the public - the police's choices are narrowed down.
edit on 24-2-2012 by ofhumandescent because: grammar
reply posted on 24-2-2012 @ 12:05 PM by MDDoxs
reply to post by ofhumandescent
I agree with alot of what you are saying.
We should also consider the by-stander effect or what ever you want to call it.
When one person starts firing, the rest do without even realizing why they are shooting. Some basic instinct that if someone senses or sees danger, there must be danger and i must do the same thing as them weather it is running away or shooting a car up.
I agree with alot of what you are saying.
We should also consider the by-stander effect or what ever you want to call it.
When one person starts firing, the rest do without even realizing why they are shooting. Some basic instinct that if someone senses or sees danger, there must be danger and i must do the same thing as them weather it is running away or shooting a car up.
reply posted on 24-2-2012 @ 12:11 PM by andersensrm
reply to post by Xcathdra
The only people I see complaining about cops are the criminals. Other people blow it out of proportion, and make it seem like cop are just going around shooting people. I think we need to open our eyes for one, to the rest of the world where it really is as bad as people make their lives out to be. You live in America, and you're already blessed, you have a better life than 80% of the world population. As long as you don't plan on going out on a rampage and start killing people, I don't think you have to worry about cops shooting at you.
The only people I see complaining about cops are the criminals. Other people blow it out of proportion, and make it seem like cop are just going around shooting people. I think we need to open our eyes for one, to the rest of the world where it really is as bad as people make their lives out to be. You live in America, and you're already blessed, you have a better life than 80% of the world population. As long as you don't plan on going out on a rampage and start killing people, I don't think you have to worry about cops shooting at you.
reply posted on 24-2-2012 @ 12:12 PM by Xcathdra
reply to post by ofhumandescent
This might help put it in perspective
Whether its a call for service, a traffic stop or other encounter we must take any threats / comments / etc as factual, IE the suspect will follow through with the threats. Law Enforcement cannot give the person the benefit of the doubt that he is bluffing when it comes to threats against the Public / Law Enforcement.
To cover one other area that has slightly been brought up - Subduing the individual due to the number of officers present. The number of officers on a call can / do dictate the availability / justification for using force. When it comes to a deadly force encounter, as in this case, the number of officers present is irrelevant .
Also, if you were one of the officers present, with officers to your left and right, and you see the person make a quick move what would you do? You and the officer next to you can see 2 completely different actions.
If the guy raises his gun and points it at your partner, you will perceive the guys action as trying to kill your partner. Your action would be based on protecting the life of a 3rd party. Your partner views it as self defense since the gun is aiming at him.
The 2 reports will be similar however the justification for the use of deadly force will be different.
This might help put it in perspective
Whether its a call for service, a traffic stop or other encounter we must take any threats / comments / etc as factual, IE the suspect will follow through with the threats. Law Enforcement cannot give the person the benefit of the doubt that he is bluffing when it comes to threats against the Public / Law Enforcement.
To cover one other area that has slightly been brought up - Subduing the individual due to the number of officers present. The number of officers on a call can / do dictate the availability / justification for using force. When it comes to a deadly force encounter, as in this case, the number of officers present is irrelevant .
Also, if you were one of the officers present, with officers to your left and right, and you see the person make a quick move what would you do? You and the officer next to you can see 2 completely different actions.
If the guy raises his gun and points it at your partner, you will perceive the guys action as trying to kill your partner. Your action would be based on protecting the life of a 3rd party. Your partner views it as self defense since the gun is aiming at him.
The 2 reports will be similar however the justification for the use of deadly force will be different.
edit on 24-2-2012 by Xcathdra because:
(no reason given)
reply posted on 24-2-2012 @ 12:12 PM by andersensrm
Originally posted by MDDoxs
reply to post by ofhumandescent
I agree with alot of what you are saying.
We should also consider the by-stander effect or what ever you want to call it.
When one person starts firing, the rest do without even realizing why they are shooting. Some basic instinct that if someone senses or sees danger, there must be danger and i must do the same thing as them weather it is running away or shooting a car up.
Yea its a shame so many innocent people are getting shot by cops. Wait thats not happening is it?
reply posted on 24-2-2012 @ 12:13 PM by seabag
reply to post by ofhumandescent
Overkill??? Not IMO!
All we need to know is that the driver who got shot had carjacked 2 people with a gun that night and police removed a gun from that vehicle. If the guy was complying there would have been no shootout.
The police want to go home at night, so I expect them to use their superior numbers, superior tactics and superior firepower in dangerous situations like this. I want the police to have the upper hand otherwise we’ll have the complete opposite, which is what MEXICO has. The cartels are armed better than some militaries and the police are rendered useless and ineffective.
I don’t want to live in a country were the criminals have the upper hand…do any of you?
Overkill??? Not IMO!
All we need to know is that the driver who got shot had carjacked 2 people with a gun that night and police removed a gun from that vehicle. If the guy was complying there would have been no shootout.
The police want to go home at night, so I expect them to use their superior numbers, superior tactics and superior firepower in dangerous situations like this. I want the police to have the upper hand otherwise we’ll have the complete opposite, which is what MEXICO has. The cartels are armed better than some militaries and the police are rendered useless and ineffective.
I don’t want to live in a country were the criminals have the upper hand…do any of you?
reply posted on 24-2-2012 @ 12:21 PM by ofhumandescent
reply to post by Xcathdra
If you notice I did change my post once I went through the entire thread.
You were right and I jumped to conclusions.
I hate seeing a human life just taken...............but I do agree, IF we were given the full truth, the police had no choice in this case.
Again, you replied as I was changing my post.
We crossed wires.
If you notice I did change my post once I went through the entire thread.
You were right and I jumped to conclusions.
I hate seeing a human life just taken...............but I do agree, IF we were given the full truth, the police had no choice in this case.
Again, you replied as I was changing my post.
We crossed wires.
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