It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

What is survival. A meaningful and sincere thread. I'd love to hear what you all have to say.

page: 1
6

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 09:37 PM
link   
Mods. I know I just made a survival thread. But it got no replies, and I honestly feel like this subject matter needs to be adressed.

Man is pre-conditioned with survival mechanisms. Why?

My next question is a VERY important question. It is one that is strongly related to peace. How? How is peace possible when the drive to survive is present?



My personal subjective interpretation is that perhaps man has survival mechanisms, not just because he wants to survive, it is because he wants to live. (and here's where my positive mood comes in). I believe, by a stretch of my imagination that it might be possible, that man and beast are supposed to co-exist. Now, I know it sounds crazy at first when you first think about it. Maybe I'm just being too, "New Agey", or what have you, but I know what I'm saying here. What I believe is that PERHAPS: I stress perhaps because I am aware that this is an EXTREME hypothetical situation, I say perhaps because, PERHAPS, the Earth might grown into a true, unified being. A unified being in the sense that the earth becomes one being. We are divided. We are divided amongst our environment. Yes its true. Now to merge, we must accept the fact that our section of the universe is made, I SAY MADE!!!, to survive.

We are made to survive. To me, that means both, that our creator wanted us to kill, and , that it is okay to kill. Now, don't send the F.B.I. after me for saying that. Don't call the pope, because it's true.

I had to say that. I had to say that because I see a potential future. I see a potential future where we can, once again, communicate fluently with our environment. It is strange to think about, but I know, if we could appreciate the animal survival mechanisms, we could come to appreciate our universe in a way that we've never appreciated it before. A way that is true.




posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 10:10 PM
link   
OK, First of all the earth/planet we live on is a living organism and we are totally dependent on that organism. We as humans becoming - do not remember/know our true purpose - it has been hidden from us for thousands of years for a variety of reasons.
It is so important that we live in fear because living in fear stops us from recognising our true worth which is magnificent indeed.
We are on the edge of one of the greatest changes mankind have ever confronted and many higher beings are so very excited by this though they know that this will be a very tumultuous time for us. Every single soul will survive the great changes that are coming very soon but they won't all survive in forms that they will recognise it will all be down to the individual and his/her ability to understand what is happening right now in this our time.

We stand on the precipice and will either fail or succeed and the knowledge that has always been held from us will be crucial to mankind as changes come about that most won't believe or understand.

Everyone knows in their heart that something is nearing where ever you come from or what ever you believe and each will be given the information/knowledge they require in keeping with their individual evolvement and understanding.

Manking has this one and only final chance to escape their enslavement and co create together as one. The collective conscience is vital to our survival and I'm afraid time is of the essence.

'I am a human becoming - help me to become'



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 10:13 PM
link   
reply to post by smithjustinb
 


Age old delima..."some people live to work" others "work to live"
same as survival....some survive to live "me" others live to just survive...I prefer really living....
it's a state of mind...not all doom and gloom.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 10:31 PM
link   
I'm not trying to irritate you, or embody a bunch of stereotypes about the kind of person who would disagree with you. But....

First, you mention "communicate with our environment." I'm not sure what you mean by that. What does the grass in a field have to communicate about. From what we know, grass has no direct sensory input. It isn't self-aware; so how could it even begin to communicate with me or I with it? Notice, I am NOT saying it has no value---I'm simply questioning the goal of communicating with what you perceive as an organism (the environment) but which is really not a unit or a community, regardless of human doctrine or propaganda. The environment, and the way various organisms interact, is a lot more like the marketplace---individuals interact, but not on equal terms and not always for their mutual benefit: some individuals get eaten.

Second, you mention the idea of coming together and building community. The problem I have with that is that when primates build community, there is an inevitably a dominance hierarchy built in, despite lip-service to democratic an inclusive ideals. Even within a community built on love, the interests of some members are paramount.

And that's true in every human community, because it's a trait of primates. Even Buddhist societies embody a very rigid caste system, with a large peasant class working "for" the interests of the few---the elite. Same with soviet communism, same with cults and sects through out history. The beautiful people always seek their own advantage, and the wealthy, or at least those who decide the allocation of resources, are only too happy to give it to them.

What I mean by all this is, competition is caused by scarcity. And the people who end up in a position of authority can never resist the urge to use their power preferentially. Even in a convent, its always the cute nuns that get asked to sing a solo in choir.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 11:17 PM
link   
reply to post by smithjustinb
 


First off i love the whole human becoming bit, i noramlly just refer to our state as fallen man but the way you put it makes it sound so much more obtainable. Second, all life no matter its level of concious awarness is apart of the super concious, which of course is the concious state where every subconcious dwells. The fact is all life is ment to coexist and build upon one another, fallen man is in a state where we dont build in a true spiritual fashion, which is a fashion where it would improve the life of all organisms. Instead we build upon our fallen wants and needs, lusting only the physical realm and the "man made" pleasures we push into every persons head. You also spoke of why we are driven to survive, well with the fall of man from its true state brought a vicious backlash onto our physical bodys. This was portraid in the story of adam and eve, once they fell from the "garden" they realised their shame and then clothed themselves and started our grasp on physical survival. From a psychological point of view we have our instincts because we have been predesposed to them for thousands of years, each new physical life is born into a state where we need to always be more conciously aware of maintaing a physical state opposed to a state where oneness with the superconcious fuels the physical form. we were once god beings because we were one with all creation, from a scientific out look to give some clearity on how immortality could be achievable, if man were to have that connection with the super concious state we would have the capability to be aware of every cell in our body bc each cell in its self is a living being (that by the way makes up a whole body which is you and none of those individual cells are aware of your single concious state. That shows alot about existance.) so basically we would be able to communicate with the beings that fuel your physoical form aka self regeration, stoping the aging process of those beings, directing energies around us like light appropriatly within our physical form to generate life force. As a med student you learn about your immune system and when you get the gist of it you think to yourself how the hell do i ever get sick with weapons like that!? Well if you actually had say in how they worked bc you were one with them you could pretty much sustain yourself through any form of pathogen.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 11:52 PM
link   
reply to post by smithjustinb
 


How could there be peace with survival instincts? I don't believe there could be "Peace" in the way that you are using the word. Full outer peace (World Peace) will not exist in my opinion, because there is too many differences on how to live and we will never agree and will cause wars, and also greed. Inner peace (acceptance) is always possible for the individual to be OK with life and where they are in it, even in a war-zone.

As for survival, it is just there for us to not go extinct, if we do not care to survive it is easy to be killed and for our species to go extinct, and living beings MUST exist to be a unique expression from the universe of non-living and living.

I think, maybe animals have it best. Live in the moment, know that after your disappointments and battles you will find calmness (inner peace) again, and that we are all connected living in this web called life.



posted on Feb, 24 2012 @ 12:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by quedup
OK, First of all the earth/planet we live on is a living organism and we are totally dependent on that organism. We as humans becoming - do not remember/know our true purpose - it has been hidden from us for thousands of years for a variety of reasons.


I believe that before "those from the heavens came", we knew. Those who from the heavens came, came to Egypt. The egyptians constructed some of the most marvled wonders of the world to date. Consider the meaning and purpose of the sphinx, and I think you will be answering some questions of who we really used to be and what we really used to know.


It is so important that we live in fear because living in fear stops us from recognising our true worth which is magnificent indeed.


But it is possible to live without it. However, not in a world where survival drives our existence.


We are on the edge of one of the greatest changes mankind have ever confronted and many higher beings are so very excited by this though they know that this will be a very tumultuous time for us.


Evolution has happened before and it will happen again. But eventually, we're going to have to evolve into something that understands its place and something that understands, for once, what the universe is and where its going.


Every single soul will survive the great changes that are coming very soon but they won't all survive in forms that they will recognise it will all be down to the individual and his/her ability to understand what is happening right now in this our time.


You just gotta love life.


We stand on the precipice and will either fail or succeed and the knowledge that has always been held from us will be crucial to mankind as changes come about that most won't believe or understand.


But time and time again, we are asked, "to remember".


Everyone knows in their heart that something is nearing where ever you come from or what ever you believe and each will be given the information/knowledge they require in keeping with their individual evolvement and understanding.

Manking has this one and only final chance to escape their enslavement and co create together as one. The collective conscience is vital to our survival and I'm afraid time is of the essence.

'I am a human becoming - help me to become'


The fact that a large portion of us think like this should serve as an indicator to skeptics that there must be something to it. Unless you doubt and underestimate human intelligence, in which case, you are only harming yourself.



posted on Feb, 24 2012 @ 12:38 PM
link   

Originally posted by Doc Holiday
reply to post by smithjustinb
 


Age old delima..."some people live to work" others "work to live"
same as survival....some survive to live "me" others live to just survive...I prefer really living....
it's a state of mind...not all doom and gloom.


That it be.

The tree is an entity that neither has to work nor survive. It just carelessly, and freely lives no matter what.

Merging as one form with the planet means embodying the essence of a tree. There are no "higher life forms". There is no hierarchy here. There is just the earth doing what the earth needs done. On one end of the spectrum it is to survive. On the other end of the spectrum, it is to live.

The one's surviving can only hope to become that which lives. That can only be possible if there is a unified form. All animals have to learn to be trees. But being a tree doesn't mean we have to be rooted in the ground. As we merge with the tree, we also merge with the bird. As we merge more and more, we become more free and more free.



posted on Feb, 24 2012 @ 12:49 PM
link   

Originally posted by tovenar

I'm not trying to irritate you, or embody a bunch of stereotypes about the kind of person who would disagree with you. But....

First, you mention "communicate with our environment." I'm not sure what you mean by that. What does the grass in a field have to communicate about. From what we know, grass has no direct sensory input. It isn't self-aware; so how could it even begin to communicate with me or I with it? Notice, I am NOT saying it has no value---I'm simply questioning the goal of communicating with what you perceive as an organism (the environment) but which is really not a unit or a community, regardless of human doctrine or propaganda. The environment, and the way various organisms interact, is a lot more like the marketplace---individuals interact, but not on equal terms and not always for their mutual benefit: some individuals get eaten.


All thoughts are electrons moving in our brain. I can indirectly have an effect on the way your electrons flow by the way I make my electrons flow. If I were a supreme being, I could have a direct effect. All you can communicate to grass is what it means to be a human and all the grass can communicate to you is what it means to be grass. But this very element of communication of what it means to be each other would be the very thing that would transform you into what it means to be the Earth.


Second, you mention the idea of coming together and building community. The problem I have with that is that when primates build community, there is an inevitably a dominance hierarchy built in, despite lip-service to democratic an inclusive ideals. Even within a community built on love, the interests of some members are paramount.


This is the current paradigm yes, but under the community of a unified Earth with a unified Earth form, this paradigm would no longer serve.


And that's true in every human community, because it's a trait of primates. Even Buddhist societies embody a very rigid caste system, with a large peasant class working "for" the interests of the few---the elite. Same with soviet communism, same with cults and sects through out history. The beautiful people always seek their own advantage, and the wealthy, or at least those who decide the allocation of resources, are only too happy to give it to them.


To become the Earth is to learn photosynthesis. It is the most peaceful form of energy consumption. If the Earth came to be a single form as a directive of peace (the opposite of survival), then this known form of consuming would become the inevitable result. There would be no inequity among any Earth inhabitants. There would be no Earth-bound competition or no concept of it at all.


What I mean by all this is, competition is caused by scarcity. And the people who end up in a position of authority can never resist the urge to use their power preferentially. Even in a convent, its always the cute nuns that get asked to sing a solo in choir.


No competition, no survival, no conflict, no scarcity. Just peace, life, cooperation, and abundance. All because chaos moves naturally to become ordered.



posted on Feb, 24 2012 @ 12:52 PM
link   
Here is something to think about:

All human inequality does not stem from human inequality at all. It stems from the inequality between us and other life forms. This inequality is what drives the survival initiative. Without the survival initiative, there will, for once, be no inequality. If you want unity, peace, harmony, any of that new agey stuff, you have to realize that we might all be merging into a unified form and eradicating survival. Otherwise, it can't happen.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 10:38 AM
link   
reply to post by smithjustinb
 


IMO peace comes from the same place that ineaquality comes from and that is within ones self.
I think that survival comes down to nutrition or lack there of.When the nutritional needs of mankind are met without taking a life and without effort that is the point that life as we know it would end.

It seems to me that survival is the part of the system that is under rated.One could even ponder that survival is fuel for love.The ones that we love the most usually play a big role in our survival or vice versa.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 11:13 AM
link   
Well, think of it like this: if MANKIND were FREE to roam about earth, as he chose, EVERYONE would have land, a home, and PLENTY of food on the table. Instead, MANKIND has been restricted and rounded up, like sheep on a prairie; and fed the idea that "life" is about money and materialism. 2 things you CAN'T eat!

I urge you.....take a train ride, across the country...and SEE for yourself....how much VACANT land there is. Then notice, as you get into the big cities, how CONGESTED everything is. Then, ask yourself this one question: WHY?



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 02:05 PM
link   
All that exists as physical is driven to maintain that physical existence. This is what survival is all about. Maintaining existence. That is what drives all physical development and there's no fighting the imperative "to survive" regardless of who or what you believe you are. Even the most willing martyr is battling to achieve survival in his/her own understanding of ultimate survival (within some form of Heaven or Paradise that exists for him/her after the quick sting of death), and that goes for the most suicidal of people, although their version of survival involves exchanging corporeal survival for a better version of survival that they instinctively believe awaits them if they can just get there. Humans are the only corporeal creatures that knowingly destroy themselves and this has to do with the species-wide visceral certainty that after death comes an afterlife.

The survival imperative itself deals with Identity of the existential whole and can be expressed in a variety of ways, either Masculine (competition, establishment of inimitable Identity, defense of that unique Identity, and isolation/defense of acquired Identity qualifiers - possessions and acquisitions) or Feminine (Identity Association - or Broadening of Kind via strategic alliances, simple Association - or Increase of Specific Kind via community development, and Symbiosis), and definitely a shifting mix of both Masculine and Feminine survival expressions, as warranted by circumstance. The gender qualifications reflect how Earth's humanity has labeled these expressions, so don't look at me for why they've been labeled relative to gender. That happened thousands of years ago and I see no reason to invent new labels if these will work for discussion purposes.

The applicability of a specific survival expression over another is the real issue when one examines the impact on peace between people, animals, people and animals, communities, societies, and between entire nations. Masculine expressions tend to be aggressive and unilateral. Feminine expressions tend to bring parties together to create common cause. That's a pretty broad overview, but like I said, most survival efforts are a combination of both gender expressions.

Peace is the result of satisfying the survival imperative by way of establishing common cause between conflicting parties. It's as simple as that, but pretty tough to achieve in a Masculine-centric society, and impossible to achieve between two or more Masculine-centric societies. Don't expect it to ever exist in the modern world.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 09:50 PM
link   
reply to post by smithjustinb
 


Nice post! Everyone has such has such beautiful ideas. A slightly dangerous topic makes for a more interesting discussion.



Originally posted by smithjustinb
Man is pre-conditioned with survival mechanisms. Why?


My guess is man developed a need to protect himself from nature. Maybe he became fearfully aware of the fact that his environment could end his existence, and with the power of an opposable thumb and some profound curiosity, developed the ability to grasp, observe and utilize nature under the power of his own will. Such environmental concerns such as lack of speed, mobility, strength and endurance—in comparison to man's predators—may have also facilitated in a need for a new cunning.

As packs grew, a social need for communication might have developed, and to protect itself, the community passed down techniques and skills regarding survival to later generations. As protection from nature grew stronger and the reliance on others became important, the pack became more herd-like and the power of a more herd-like existence was realized. This resulted in man rendering nature into a servent of his existence, rather than his ultimate enemy. Man had lost his predator: nature.

The domination over nature by one of its own species and thus a growing proximity to others of the same species could be the reason man turns on himself. It's still survival. This is what I like to think anyways. (Aaah speculation is fun in the evenings!)


Originally posted by smithjustinb
My next question is a VERY important question. It is one that is strongly related to peace. How? How is peace possible when the drive to survive is present?


Once again, allow me to pollute this topic with my opinion:

Peace is possible by removing yourself from the proximity maintained by the community and returning to nature. Detach yourself from the herd to a more pack-like mentality, roam about nature and be at it's mercy and part of it. The further you put yourself away from the ant-hill is when you find value in yourself, others and your surroundings. Living is being like a wolf rather than a herd-animal. Rely on the creativity of yourself and not the hive. This existence has stripped out all of the goodness nature and the physics of the universe has given us—and the peace that goodness brought.

OP I enjoyed your take on it, but I don't believe there was a creator who endowed us with survival skills. I like to guess the physics of the universe was the cause.


edit on 25-2-2012 by LesMisanthrope because: (no reason given)




top topics



 
6

log in

join