Understanding Gnosticism; or, a quest for accurate knowledge

In the Tibetan Book of the Dead www.summum.us... these spiritual frightening beings (the Archons of James) are encountered by every person as they venture across, alone and unaided.
The severity of the experience is determined by "karma" built up during the lifetime of the dying. A person's unique journey will be a reflection of his performance during life. The guru assures the dying that these things are "from your own imagination only", they are "created by your mind", and are frightening to the degree that you perceived they would be while living...
this karmic debt is paid off during the process of crossing over. It is NOT an eternal damnation...the debt paid, the soul returns to its source for rest and reflection, and then (if necessary) goes forth again into a new womb.

The guru even lends courage and good thoughts that the person's place of landing next will be not to a life of sorrow and hardship, but rather to a kind and comforting place.

Then you come back, into whatever lifetime it was deemed most appropriate by your soul in conference with the ethereal guides assigned to you, and you once again start as if from scratch, but your soul's knowledge retains its ultimate Truth. We are forgetful of the in-between time, and usually if we remember our previous life, either as a little child, or later in life, that is a wonderful thing...
but I have yet to come across anyone who has for their entire life had full retention of a previous lifetime.

Does anyone know of someone who has? (Aside from Jesus, obviously he was aware).

Originally posted by Akragon

This is the first gnostic thread i've seen that wasn't destroyed by invading christians...

Perhaps thats because the OP is a woman, and as we all know... "hell hath no fury like a womans scorn"

LOL, very funny. Or maybe it's because those participating are being respectful and attempting to communicate with dignity...?
or It might be because of my awesomeness and talent at keeping things on track and leadership skills as a woman (yeah, right)...rather than fear of my smoldering wrath (I could smite them all, you know).....
destroyed by invading Christians??
I guess I'm pretty scary, eh.
But yeah, whatever.... Maybe it's like Ed said, the Holy Spirit is at work through us...
Maybe the "secret" is out -- now there is knowledge the whole world can access, and thus the house of cards comes fluttering down....

Okay, for anyone still attending,
this www.bibliotecapleyades.net... link discusses not only the Coptic texts, but brings in an alien element.
The Archons....very interesting.

reply to post by autowrench
autowrench? Had you seen it?
Things are starting to fall into place in my head.....

Also, have you read our newest member's intro...the Yogi from the East? Hmm.
You might be able to help him out. But he claims to be pretty much the know-allest of all.

reply to post by wildtimes

Also, I want to ask you, Ed, if you have ever heard Steve McVey's theories. gracewalk.org.
I stumbled while book-shopping across the title of his book 52 Lies Taught in Church Every Sunday.

He is a pastor of some evangelical (I guess?) transdenominational offshoot. On his website there are actually 101 Lies, and a short video (2-5 minutes) clickable on each of them, which are stated very succinctly.

While I'm not rushing out to join his mission, I did find his messages refreshing, as far as Bible-study and Christian "worship" go.

I'll give it a look.

reply to post by wildtimes

I have a question for you.
Why do you spend so much time insisting on your "narrow path" rather than being willing to discuss alternatives?
Are you trying to "save" others?
"Warn" them?
Are you preaching?

Or are you a humble and generous person trying to spread good news through goodwill?
Your tone almost invariably takes on a high-and-mighty, pulpit-type ANNOUNCEMENT vibe; certainly not an equal-footing human-to-human, humble one.

Truth is not a broad conclusion. God tends to keep the same attitude when expressing Himself in scripture. If you spend an afternoon listening to Isaiah, you would see what I am reflecting. Truth is in agreement with itself by context. One example: If we say to listen to the wisdom of this proverb:

8 Listen, my son, to your father’s instruction
and do not forsake your mother’s teaching.

We would say this is only true by context. If your mother and father are drug dealers, their wisdom is not sound. If it was my father and mother, then the proverb is true. If we extend this to the Father above and the Mother of nature, then we equally see this by a different context. The root truth that allows us to see the truth is not the proverb, but the underlying truth found in the context. We already know this truth because it is written on our hearts.

The reason so many people try to find many different doctrines and truths to salvation is a means to reason sin as okay. We all have sins that must be overcome that are unique to us. Fitting our sin into a context that excuses the sin is never the correct path to truth or excused by God. The heart can be deceptive, but it also holds the truth of the matter. The truth of love comes from giving and not taking. When we recognize the difference, the truth of all context can be seen plainly.

Why do I continue to point toward judgment? The same reason I continually point toward the promises of God to those who cling to truth. We already possess both judgment and truth in our lives. The expression of one over the other is by context to our choices and reasoning of life. I'm here for the same reason we all are:

"I hear and I forget. I see and I learn. I do and I understand." The quote from Confucius is education. The only way to learn is to participate. We all have a light to shine. Giving is the point. We all know that here.

reply to post by wildtimes


Maybe you can explain reincarnation to me; I've always felt it is silly. Here are my questions:

(1) When a person is born are they necessarily recycling an existing soul or can they get a fresh soul sometimes?
(2) If the population of physical hosts for these souls decreases what happens to the leftover souls?

Isn't it more reasonable to assume that our identity comes from the structure of our brain and body and doesn't actually exist? (Sorry if this is getting off-topic from the Gnostics.)

Originally posted by cloudyday
reply to post by wildtimes

 

Maybe you can explain reincarnation to me; I've always felt it is silly. Here are my questions:

(1) When a person is born are they necessarily recycling an existing soul or can they get a fresh soul sometimes?
(2) If the population of physical hosts for these souls decreases what happens to the leftover souls?

Isn't it more reasonable to assume that our identity comes from the structure of our brain and body and doesn't actually exist? (Sorry if this is getting off-topic from the Gnostics.)

edit on 26-2-2012 by cloudyday because: (no reason given)

I know you didn't ask me directly, but I'll answer anyway.

Check the link in my signature, then consult the article on baptism and the water. It's a mystery that the Bible doesn't answer directly. My opinion is that it hints at the same mystery we observe with NDEs and Eastern philosophy. Somewhere in all of this, there is an underlying truth we cannot answer apart from saying it's a mystery. Justinian declared it a heresy in 545 when Origin the Philosopher stated that he thought it was what the Bible was saying. For me, the largest clue is Jesus saying, "You must be born again." How much clearer can we get? The article linked in my signature gives the other references we can identify in the Bible. For any Christian not adhering to the possibility, consider the fact that the entire Bible states that we will live again on a new Earth and that the dead in Christ will rise to new life. Regardless of our view, the Bible makes it known life continues in new bodies.

Since the body is merely a vehicle for the soul, it's pretty clear there is a process to follow that includes union with God from love. All unions come from love. If we use the pattern in nature as our example, two become one and then a new life is created. Earth, in this view, is merely another womb for union to take place between man and God. Love is the key truth for this to happen. For me, the tree of life is a good symbol for this. We are the roots below. The tree above drops fruit when we bear fruit from righteousness and love toward others. When the fruit drops on new ground, a new tree is planted and gains union with the soil above.

Hebrew tradition speaks of the same process. We have a part to play in creating our new reality after this reality is over. We can join the light with God or be separated into darkness. Baptism is the symbol for this process. The Bible uses the analogy of the sheep and the goats. The sheep are lead by the Shepherd. The goats lead themselves to destruction. In the process, God is long-suffering. From what I can see, the Bible leads us to the conclusion that we have been here in a cycle of time, over lifetimes and not a single life. This demonstrates God's divine justice for mankind, so much so that He goes after the lost sheep up to the point of a final judgment. I believe God is capable of saving all of us. It's a mystery.

The Bible says that we know the Shepherd's voice when he calls if we are His sheep. Are we His sheep? There are many, it seems, that deny the call over and over. Again, this is a mystery. God is the judge and we are the witness. We have an accuser. The Bible says we have an advocate in Christ if we are called by His name. When we seek salvation in His name, we are marked. See the article on two crossed sticks.

reply to post by cloudyday


Also, you may want to read 2 Esdras. There are further hints from the prophet Esdras that speak to the same mystery. The angel speaking to Esdras asks some really intriguing questions of him that we can only answer in this day and age. In one place, he asks Esdras if he can show an image of the voice? Of course, Esdras could not accomplish this or even visualize it. We can in our day with ease. It's a really interesting book. Esdras speaks as if he is well aware of the facts of transmigration and how it all works.

Some of the first King James Bibles had this book included. 1 Esdras does not include as much interesting information as 2 Esdras.

reply to post by wildtimes

In the Tibetan Book of the Dead www.summum.us... these spiritual frightening beings

I have read the book from this author. It's is essentially a rendering of the Kabalion. The author claims to have had contact with aliens at the great pyramids. His videos tell some wild stories. Most of what I read and heard from him was on the wide road of spirituality. The book of Enoch points out the deception of listening to fallen beings. The end of days judgment is mainly focused on these spiritual beings who have deceived mankind. We find this same thread of knowledge leading through Theosophy, ritual magic and the leadership of this world. Know them by their fruit.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by cloudyday

 

Also, you may want to read 2 Esdras. There are further hints from the prophet Esdras that speak to the same mystery. The angel speaking to Esdras asks some really intriguing questions of him that we can only answer in this day and age. In one place, he asks Esdras if he can show an image of the voice? Of course, Esdras could not accomplish this or even visualize it. We can in our day with ease. It's a really interesting book. Esdras speaks as if he is well aware of the facts of transmigration and how it all works.

Some of the first King James Bibles had this book included. 1 Esdras does not include as much interesting information as 2 Esdras.

Thanks. To be honest the symbolism approach turns me off. I know it is a very well respected approach in Jewish/Christian theology, but it puts me to sleep.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

From what I can see, the Bible leads us to the conclusion that we have been here in a cycle of time, over lifetimes and not a single life. This demonstrates God's divine justice for mankind, so much so that He goes after the lost sheep up to the point of a final judgment. I believe God is capable of saving all of us. It's a mystery.

So....Ed, you do believe in reincarnation?
You furthermore agree that we are all going to get there?

And so, why are you preaching repentance?
You and I agree on the 'love your neighbor' concept; yet you seem to dismiss the literature that says we are all filled with the Divine.
Dude, you are a real paradox. An enigma.

Is it possible for you to just succinctly state your beliefs? I believe I have done so. You persist in referring to your "earlier" musings and thoughts.

In July of last year you brought the Gospel of Thomas to the table....
it faded (unfortunately)....
but your posts since I have met you seem to dismiss the Gnostic/Coptic texts as heresy.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

I have read the book from this author. It's is essentially a rendering of the Kabalion. The author claims to have had contact with aliens at the great pyramids. His videos tell some wild stories.

His videos? Evans-Wentz has been dead for a long time....
the book was originally written in the 19th century.
I'm afraid we are not talking about the Tibetan Book of the Dead here.....
to what volume do you refer?

reply to post by cloudyday

Maybe you can explain reincarnation to me; I've always felt it is silly. Here are my questions:

(1) When a person is born are they necessarily recycling an existing soul or can they get a fresh soul sometimes?
(2) If the population of physical hosts for these souls decreases what happens to the leftover souls?

Isn't it more reasonable to assume that our identity comes from the structure of our brain and body and doesn't actually exist? (Sorry if this is getting off-topic from the Gnostics.)

It's not off-topic at all.
As far as I understand it, certainly a fresh soul can be incarnated: a new soul incarnated for the first time. We all had our first day on earth.

The "leftover" souls have presumably graduated and are reunited with the Divine.

And to my thinking, no, it's not more reasonable to assume that we don't actually exist.... we certainly do exist, and we are, as EWR says, engulfed in a mysterious process that passeth understanding.

Also, my teacher talked about souls being distributed throughout the cosmos; that the burgeoning population here is representative of souls coming here because something important is brewing. So, the first-timer here on Earth is reasonably a soul who has been elsewhere and chooses (in the ethereal realm) to come here to participate in the important doings that have been brewing for millenia.

reply to post by wildtimes

Is it possible for you to just succinctly state your beliefs? I believe I have done so. You persist in referring to your "earlier" musings and thoughts.

"Earlier" is probably a reference to his earlier identity on ATS which is apparently banned. Seeing how this seems to me to be the same person using a sock puppet, I can answer your "succinct" question from my probings in the past, which is Messianic Judaism, which is rejected by both Jews and Christians and have created their own quasi religion that is universally recognized as heresy from anyone outside their own sectarian belief system. He believes in a trinity where you have the same individual person going through stages of existence where at one time he is the Father and then for a finite period he was the Son, sort of like what Lonewolf tries to articulate. From Lonewolf's thread *snip*: Yahweh, created man whom is the Lord, www.abovetopsecret.com... they seem to recognize each other's belief on this subject to be the same.

reply to post by jmdewey60

"Earlier" is probably a reference to his earlier identity on ATS which is apparently banned. Seeing how this seems to me to be the same person using a sock puppet,

Yes, it is Ed, formerly known as "Superior". He is not shy about making that known.....

But thanks for your comment.
I was surprised to see his thread of the Gospel of Thomas promoting it, and hope that he will explain why (or if) he has turned away from it as heresy.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

"Earlier" is probably a reference to his earlier identity on ATS which is apparently banned. Seeing how this seems to me to be the same person using a sock puppet,

Yes, it is Ed, formerly known as "Superior". He is not shy about making that known.....

But thanks for your comment.
I was surprised to see his thread of the Gospel of Thomas promoting it, and hope that he will explain why (or if) he has turned away from it as heresy.

wait who?



This makes me happy... i admit i was PISSED when i found out he was banned

reply to post by Akragon


Oh yeah, it's him. He even persists in promoting his threads from his previous 'incarnation'. No question about it.

I'm still trying to dig out a sensible and less-rhetorical answer from him, but I suspect it's doomed....as per previously.

reply to post by Akragon

He could have done it legitimately since there was one day where people were not able to log in so a bunch of them just started up new accounts, which would cause their former ones to be closed. So he most likely was never really banned.

reply to post by jmdewey60


I think he was banned... Theres been a lot of bannings lately

I hate that... i don't believe its fair to lose your account for a mistake, possibly made in the heat of the moment...

reply to post by Akragon


You apparently were not one of the people who got an email from ATS about your log-in.
A lot of people did, so if you were not effected then you would know nothing about it.
Like I said, a whole bunch of people created new accounts rather than wait for the process to go through to get new passwords and stuff. I sat through it but a lot of people were very impatient.
There was a thread on the whole affair that got put in the trash once the problem was sorted out.
That is the explanation for a rash of "bannings".