Let's Cut to the Chase - Iran Must Be Stopped

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posted on Mar, 12 2012 @ 10:08 PM
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is·lam/isˈläm/ Noun: 1.The religion of the Muslims, a monotheistic faith regarded as revealed through Muhammad as the Prophet of Allah.

mus·lim/ˈməzləm/ Noun: A follower of the religion of Islam.


Most people are comfortable with calling Islam's as Muslums, and I will always use Islam's for the followers of Islam. It works fine as a short term for Islamic or Islamic People.

I'll also use Babylon for the latter period issues that are the root of the problems in religion, not the earlier term that does not specify Nimrod, Semiramis, and Tammuz. All the problem issues tie to Noah's great grandson, Nimrod, and these are the Biblical issues and where the Babylon Talmud issues begin. It is also the area where Constantine tried to sheep dip Jesus symbolism as Nimrod and Tammuz, and because of this it is fully appropriate to use the Hebrew terms. These are the words and areas the Bible Narrative teach and to keep the connectivity one always uses them.

All the Christian religion linked Biblical connects refer to Babylon as the Den of Snakes, the Harlots, and similar and they refer to this specific trinity group. Islam considers these the Great Satan values, and the Essene and Jesus the same opinions. Only those seeking to confuse the issues and make them more difficult for the Christians to master would do other than this explanation with its most clear associations with the terms of Jesus.


Most would call your intentions as the art of confusion.

More News ...

Islamic Iran tired of the tough talk:

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www.telegraph.co.uk...

Iran tells West to drop 'bullying' tone
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said on Sunday that the West should drop its "bullying" stance against his country and insisted that sanctions imposed over its nuclear programme were having no more than a "psychological" effect.

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"As God is my witness, the Iranian nation will not give a damn for (your) bombs, warships and planes," he said in a televised speech in the city of Karaj west of Tehran.

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Ahmadinejad said: "They should know they will never prevail. There are no acute problems in the country and its economic pillars are strong. It is a psychological war."

His government, he vowed, "will overcome all the problems."

The Iranian president also dismissed Israel, which has been leading the bellicose rhetoric, as "a dead entity".

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edit on 12-3-2012 by MagnumOpus because: The art of attempts to confuse the subject with intention distractions




posted on Mar, 12 2012 @ 10:55 PM
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Most are smart enough to associate that if the world figures out that the theme of Islam is a more pious and true version of religion than Zionism, that the Israeli's figure of pious religion falls in the crapper and all their religious justifications to take over Palestine also fall into the crapper.

Peace might come from the greater world understanding of the problems and hold Israel more accountable, and basically turn the tables into Stop Israel. Also, it would curb the tough talk against Islam, and turn up the heat against Zionism's quest to blow up Iran with nuke release problems.

So, for the even slightly intelligent, the issue of covering the differences in these religions and who is on firm ground and who is on Satan's ground proves interesting and foretells who may become the more just and the more trustable due to telling the religious truths. Islam tells the truths that Zionism doesn't.

There is lots of interest in how all this mess connects up with Revelations forecasts, so lots follow this sort of thing. And though many are messed up with the Corporate versions of Jesus, as they wake up, they find just how much they have been deceived and who has done the deceiving. Israel comes out looking dirty and Iran and Islam a lot cleaner as to what is Satan and what is benevolence, good stewardship. Islam recognizes Jesus and Zionism hates Jesus with a Passion of hate that is extreme. That slowly tends to tell people that Iran might have the better foundation for what is good and what is bad.

It tells that Iran doesn't need stopping as they are the more responsible and truthful, and Israel is the Great Satan, the great deceivers, and the ones that needed to be stopped before they blow up Iran and get slammed to the ground and they then try to blow up Europe with nuclear bombs. Israel is the Dr. Strangelove crazy faction that is out of control and doesn't know the pious religious reality. imho



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 01:43 AM
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Originally posted by MagnumOpus
Most are smart enough to associate that if the world figures out that the theme of Islam is a more pious and true version of religion than Zionism, that the Israeli's figure of pious religion falls in the crapper and all their religious justifications to take over Palestine also fall into the crapper.


I mean no disrespect by asking this, but ask I must - is English your first language? I have to ask that because of some of the verbal constructs you employ which require laborious decipherment. I'll need to know that before I can figure out how to proceed accordingly.

"Zionism" isn't a religion at all - it's a political movement. Attempting to compare the relative "piousness" of Islam and Zionism is akin to trying to compare the color blue with the function of lag bolts.



So, for the even slightly intelligent, the issue of covering the differences in these religions and who is on firm ground and who is on Satan's ground proves interesting and foretells who may become the more just and the more trustable due to telling the religious truths. Islam tells the truths that Zionism doesn't.


When I see your god and your satan dukeing it out on a battlefield, I'll attribute political aspirations to them. Until that time, it's just us people killing each other off, and it's up to us to find the solutions to political problems, not a god or gods, not God of Satan.

Gods are irrelevant in politics, and politicians are irrelevant in religion.



There is lots of interest in how all this mess connects up with Revelations forecasts, so lots follow this sort of thing.


I'm not getting into Revelations. It's irrelevant to the question of Iran, and you would lay down and cry to hear the real meaning behind Revelations. Neither condition is productive in finding solutions.



Islam recognizes Jesus


No. Islam recognizes Isa, and ranks him as a "prophet" subordinate to Mohammed. Islam does not recognize Jesus, nor is there any particular reason it should. It is not the religion of Jesus or the Christians, nor is it related to them, so there is no reason for Islam to recognize Jesus. Just as the Allah of Islam is not the same as the God of the Christians, the Isa of Islam is not the same as the Jesus of the Christians. Islam has attempted to usurp and replace the latter set with the former. Allah and Isa are the "changeling" versions of God and Jesus.



and Zionism hates Jesus with a Passion of hate that is extreme.


That kind of goes without saying - he doesn't figure into their world view. They are political - Jesus is not. Jews don't care much for him, either, but why should they, any more than Christians care about Buddha?



That slowly tends to tell people that Iran might have the better foundation for what is good and what is bad.

It tells that Iran doesn't need stopping as they are the more responsible and truthful, and Israel is the Great Satan,


Irrelevant. You are trying to promote a religious solution to a political problem. BTW, according to Iran, Israel is "the little Satan", not "the Great Satan". That distinction is reserved for the US, which should give you a clue as to their ultimate target... assuming they can get over the Israeli road bump.


edit on 2012/3/13 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 03:45 AM
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Originally posted by MagnumOpus
is·lam/isˈläm/ Noun: 1.The religion of the Muslims, a monotheistic faith regarded as revealed through Muhammad as the Prophet of Allah.

mus·lim/ˈməzləm/ Noun: A follower of the religion of Islam.


I object on the basis that the definition is inadequate. Islam is not a dogma. Islam is a way of life. To wit:



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 04:47 AM
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Sounds to me like someone is telling lies. imho Must be the Great Satan's deceiver attemping more misleading information, what else would one expect of the professional list lurker.

Most slightly intelligent folks, one of the present company not accepted as such, recognize that Zionism is founded upon religious teachings of the Talmud, Thus, most of the extremes of Zionism stem directly from those religion laws, and they do call it religion law. Most that understand these words of Islam, per Infadels, stems from the religious issues, as do the issues of Zionism that Islamic folks are animals, most Zionists hate Jesus, and so on. The religion differeces is the factor for the political division, and they have different ideals for money, power, and accumulation of wealth. This latter effect is the root of the evils, the hate, and the wars. Ben Gurion made the A-Bomb into their new god, because it protected their ideas on how to lead the NWO using the methods of Babylon, that being usury and that fueling the corporate beast that promotes private ownership and control that leds to the undermining of any political system or Government.

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www.muslimway.org...

Jesus' name is mentioned 25 times in the Holy Qur'an whereas the name Muhammad is only mentioned five times. It is in the creed of Islam to accept Jesus as an honoured prophet of God, one of the highest in rank. Therefore, no Muslim would even dare to reject Jesus outright.

The Qur'an tells us that Jesus is held in high honour and will be one of those closest to God in the Hereafter; "Behold! The angel said: 'O Mary! God gave you glad tidings of a Word from Him. His name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to God '" [QUR'AN, 3:45].

Jesus was strengthened with the Holy Spirit[2] while he performed miracles such as speaking in his infancy, giving life to a dead bird, raising the dead, giving sight to the blind and curing lepers with the permission and power of God [QUR'AN, 5:110]. Muslims also accept that Jesus was raised into Heaven, "(And remember) when God said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering you and causing you to ascend unto Me" [QUR'AN, 3:55]

The Qur'an speaks highly of Mary, mother of Jesus. "Behold! The angels said: 'O Mary! God has chosen you and purified you; chosen you above the women of all nations '" [QUR'AN, 3:42]. Not only is she one of few people in the Qur'an mentioned by name, but also her name appears thirty-one times in the Qur'an. The statement 'God has chosen you above the women of all nations' is rather interesting considering the fact that the first audience of the Qur'an was a highly tribal and nationalistic society in Arabia.

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Muslims love and genuinely revere Jesus.

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More:


www.ways-of-christ.net...

Ethical principles

The ethical principles of these 3 "Abrahamitic Religions" are also related to each other. The commandments also occur in the Koran, but not listed in the same way, e.g. in sura 17,22-39; sura 5,38-40; sura 2,188; sura 4,135; sura 2,195; and sura 17,70* (human dignity). The Koran, for example, outlaws the killing of innocent ones without exceptions (sura 5,27-32*). The term "Gihad" ("Jihad") means only: fight, struggle; the meaning "Holy war" is not taken from the Koran, but from the sayings of Mohammed and from the schools of Islamic law.*** Inwardly - mentally and morally - working against one's wickedness is called the "Great Gihad", more important than all external conflicts. Compare the teachings of Jesus, to first take out the beam in one's own eye - many external conflicts would lose their basis. The "Gihad of the word" is peacefully speaking out for one's beliefs. The "Gihad with the hand" is the active, instructive example of the believer. The "Gihad of the sword", named also "the small Gihad" is only permitted for defending believers who are under attack (compare Koran sura 2,190*). But some "vehemence" in the contact with other religions can be found already in the Koran (e.g. sura 48,29; sura 47,4*)

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edit on 13-3-2012 by MagnumOpus because: Dishonest nonsense exposed



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 05:19 AM
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Originally posted by MagnumOpus
Sounds to me like someone is telling lies. imho Must be the Great Satan's deceiver


Yeah, must be.


As a wise man once said: "Thou sayest".

Your references skim a surface with an agenda as the objective, rather than fact.. They do not look deeply. I did.



Jesus' name is mentioned 25 times in the Holy Qur'an


This is a lie. A flat-out, bold-faced lie. Jesus' name is not mentioned even once in the Qur'an.

Not even once.

Instead, a replacement for Jesus is showcased, named "Isa". Here's some homework for you. Find an Arab, ask him or her what YOUR name is in Arabic - how does it differ from the way YOU pronounce it.

While you're at it, ask him if a Qur'an in any other language than Arabic is really THE Qur'an.

The answers to those two questions will confirm what I just told you. Jesus is NOT mentioned anywhere in the Qur'an, but a replacement for him is. Neither is his original Hebrew name mentioned in the Qur'an.



The Qur'an tells us that Jesus is held in high honour and will be one of those closest to God in the Hereafter; "Behold! The angel said: 'O Mary! God gave you glad tidings of a Word from Him. His name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to God '" [QUR'AN, 3:45].


Jesus' name is NOT "Christ Jesus", nor is it "Jesus Christ" "Christ" is a title of office, not a name. That particular passage is one of the ones I found when I was a Muslim that raised questions for me, questions that were never answered satisfactorily.

Get a Qur'an - a real one, in Arabic, not a "translation". Look through it, as hard as you can, and find "Jesus" anywhere in it. You will not find it.



Jesus was strengthened with the Holy Spirit[2] while he performed miracles such as speaking in his infancy, giving life to a dead bird, raising the dead, giving sight to the blind and curing lepers with the permission and power of God [QUR'AN, 5:110]. Muslims also accept that Jesus was raised into Heaven, "(And remember) when God said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering you and causing you to ascend unto Me" [QUR'AN, 3:55]


This is yet another of the Qur'anic passages that drove me away from Islam. To find out why, do some homework and find out exactly where those stories recounted right there originated, in particular the "speaking in infancy" story and the "giving life to a dead bird" story.



Muslims love and genuinely revere Jesus.



They most certainly do not. They love and revere Isa. Read the Qur'an. See for yourself what is said of Isa in the Qur'an. He bears no resemblance to the Christian Jesus.

ETA: I notice you have re-edited your post twice now, attempting to add personal insults and such. The edits will not be addressed - they are unworthy of response.




edit on 2012/3/13 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 05:36 AM
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I do believe you are a really messed up person, as you have expressed your hate of the Christians. Hate the Islamics. Hate just about everything, except your perverted views of fantasy reality.

I don't think you'd like even the issue of the One God concept, as yours is a pagan god that seeks riches, self aggrandization, and hate of all but yourself. You are an obnoxious Bigot of most religion issues.

So, I don't think I value your opinion except for a place in the landfill as fertilizer, and even there it is unwelcome.

I do value Thomas Jefferson's ideas for Jesus, and he agreed well with Islam's view of Jesus. Jefferson's ideas on Constitution and Religion were spot on, as he recognized the need of not getting involved in the endless foreign wars and the need for the nation to keep control of money and banking to protect the freedom of the people. JFK also recognized these higher realm issues that would ban the lower realm issues of Fed Reserve, ban protecting Israel's bomb, then apply non-proliferation to Israel and nuclear disarm Israel.

Islam's issues with Christians is the Cross that stems from Tammuz, it connects with the issues for Satan, as do the Trinity issue applied to Christ. Islam likes the real Jesus theme, but not the perversions adopted by Constantine and the continuation of the false image from the wants of capitalistic goals.

The Christians are considered corrupted of the real Christ, so in various places they are associated with Pigs. In Egypt, the Christians are the garbage collectors and they live apart from the city on a mesa high area where they can raise their pigs. But the Islamics there occasionally raid the Christian areas and kill all their pigs. Islam likes the real Jesus theme, but they really don't like the perversion of Christ that too many Chistians unwittingly follow. Christians, because of many of their wrong directions, are considered the unwashed, the dirty, those akin to pigs. But because the respect Jesus and Monotheism, they in part agree with one God and the Allah concept. But in Zionism, both the real Jesus and the perverted Christians are hated.

The Christians do have a serious problem that stems from the Trinity and Son of god concepts. They use the "Son of god" in the attempt to make Jesus as god, which can't really happen. While Jesus came along as a Son of god, and he was to remove the Babylon Talmud concepts of god linked with Tammuz, and that in some way made him god in a loose way as the old god concept was made dead and the Son survived as god. The reality is the real God is immortal, never dies, and Jesus can't then replace the real God. The Book of Barnabis speaks to this, and Jesus didn't really see himself as the immortal God. Yet, Jesus saw himself as being devinely inspired to do the work for God. Jesus can't really become God, yet some attempt these wrong interpretations of many of the issues. Even Thomas Jefferson cut out a bible that removed these bad concepts assigned to Jesus.

I see you as a bigoted fanatic with a fantasy religion of which you are the sole member. imho

edit on 13-3-2012 by MagnumOpus because: The Bigot's religion of one that hates Christians and Islamics exposed



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 09:55 AM
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"Anyone who imagines that Israel can attack Iran and not unleash another world war must be mad. Pray pause and think".




www.opinion-maker.org...#

Why don’t I think Iran will be attacked, either by Israel or America? Here are some reasons.

1. My analysis is rationality based. Ruling is ruthless, often bereft of rationality. Look at it objectively and you can only see losers in this conflict, no winners. Not one.

2. Obama is up for re-election this November. Here he is trying to get out of the two brainless wars his predecessor got him into, would he want to get or sucked into a much bigger one?

3. America and Europe’s economies are fragile. Truthfully, the world economy is fragile. Closing the Straits of Hormuz is easy for Iran, despite America’s fabled armada going up and down watery hills in the Arabian Gulf, like the Duke of York. They should recall the even more fabled Spanish Armada. When the price of oil goes up appreciably, which it most certainly will, the world economy will collapse. There’s no two ways about it. Would anyone in his right mind want that? The question is: are rulers in their right minds all the time? Types like us would be done and dusted, which is most of the world. India’s growth, already sputtering, will take a giant leap backward. China’s growth will stall. Humanity will go into wretchedness never before seen, not even in pre-biblical times.

4. Whatever destruction it might cause, Israel too will get destroyed in the process. Attacking Iran would be suicidal. Syria, Hezbollah and Hamas at the very least would jump into the fray. So might other Muslim countries, especially if their people rise in support, forgetting historic Shia and Sunni cleavages for the moment. It certainly would spell the end of many manufactured post-World Wars and post-colonial states.

5. Worse, whether it likes it or not, and regardless of the noises it is making, America would also have to jump into the fray, not just because of the inordinate pressure brought to bear on it by ‘The Jewish Lobby’ and AIPAC, but more because it would be eying who gets control of the oilfields of the Arabian Gulf and the Caspian Basin once the region starts unraveling. There is no gainsaying that Russia and energy starved China would not want a piece of the action. Even energy-starved India might madly imagine that it can also grab some of the booty. In that unlikely event, what adventure do you think Pakistan might get into? Even China might advise us to. Sounds like the Mad Hatter talking right now, I agree, but it won’t sound so mad when history comes to be written.

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posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 11:15 AM
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Some interesting issues to take note of is how Thomas Jefferson handled the Bible and the issue of Jesus being acclaimed as god. Thomas Jefferson looked for the good in all things and lifted the good parts and tossed out the bad. This method made Jefferson so great a scholar that his thoughts help to effect the US Constitution. So, History recounts that Thomas Jefferson carried around a Bible that had the Jesus was god parts cut out of the book. Thomas Jefferson consided Jesus to be the greatest morals teacher that ever was or ever will be. Jefferson chose to emphasize the good and added more good to it with his other findings that extracted the good of others.

That is a really good lessen, a very construtive lesson for others to emulate. To elevate the good and deemphasize the bad. There are those here that spot one little inconsistency and have need to declair that all is bad, as they become judgemental of all things as bad. They loose the good parts of the Essene and the real reasons for Jesus coming as a Son of God, as they reject all Christianty. They loose the knowledge of that greater good and worship ignorance as bliss. They loose the good parts of Islam, because they fail to understand that they stand against the corruption of religion involved in the Jewish Babylon Talmud and the like issues that tainted Christianty as that corruption spread. He seemingly can't find the good and the pious because he only looks for the bad and seeks to toss out the good as well. Such are those that have the lower realm methods to toss the baby out with the bathwater, which was written for people to blind to see like himself.

No person can ever begin to understand the values of the Jesus story unless they learn about the Essene, who were the great students of the times searching for the most pious and truth inspired works of religion. Mary and Joseph were all part of the Essene Church and this was at Mt. Carmel and not in Jerusalem. They were devoutly distinct from the 2 nd temple and the Babylon Talmud worshiping Pharisee and Sadducee. They called out these religion corrupters as the Synagogue of Satan, the Harlots, and lots of other names to express their disgust for the corruption of religious values.

Jesus was part of an Essene plan to make a Messiah that followed the astrological signs of the times and turn out an Essene Master Priest that would surpass all others in teaching religion and pious truth. This faction of the Essene were considered Devinely Inspired in their plan for a Messiah. Their Messiah was created to go against the Babylon Talmud and return to the traditional pious beliefs assigned by Noah, Moses, David, Solomon and the typical prophets that spoke to the one God diety, the I am that I am. I am that I am is the same God as Allah of Islam.

So, no Christian these days can ever truly learn about Jesus and the Essene unless he goes back to that original history and what the Essenes believed. The Church, since the times of Jesus, has become so corrupted in its teachings that when Constantine took up Jesus as special, he blended Jesus with Nimrod and Tammuz and tossed in the tainted elements of Satanic Inspired Babylon as Jesus associated. So, due to this many consider the symbols of the Catholic Church to have many Satanic associations to the old tyranny of Babylon that sought wealth and power. It has not become any better since.

What does one do with all the debauchery? Apply the same rule as Thoman Jefferson, look for the good and elevate those teachings and speak to and cut out the bad teachings. The original elements of Jesus and the Essene were based on benevolent good for all, and those things need to become elevated. The disgusting parts from Constaintine just need to be cut from the pious person's belief. Extract the good and make good use of it and disgard the untruths on Jesus. In this way, people move forward and elevate the good. They become constructive and promote peace amoung the religions. Let Thomas Jefferson become your wise mentor. Don't follow the lower realm methods of the crackpots in these parts speaking nonsense and methods of the blind to not elevate the truths.

Unfortunately, since many don't go back to the orgins of the Essene that can't see the plainly corrupt issues of the Christian Church these days, from the display of the Tammuz Cross, to the issues of the Babylon Trinity, to the silly things of Easter with colored eggs and rabbits that are all from Babylon. The dumbed down Christians even celebrate the Birthday of Nimrod, as Dec 25 was not the Jesus BD. Jesus didn't even believe in the Tithe issues, and you don't even need any of the organized church nonsense to begin to study Jesus and see the real values and beliefs that are not tainted by the Babylon tyranny games.

In many ways, the Islam has done much better in the preservation of the old teachings as the Essene beliefs were similar to the Islam and other religions of peace.

Don't respect those that have the lower realm methods to toss the baby out with the bathwater, which was written for people to blind to see like himself. Respect those that used the seek the good methods to found the US Constitution, take heed from them. Preserve the good, protect the Constitution, return the power of money to the benefit of the Citizens and not the take over of the country and its Constition by the undue influence of privately owned wealth intent upon taking over the world as a ruling elite. All that by using the Tyranny Methods of Babylon, and slipped into the blind man's religion as false prophet Christendom.

Don't become to blind to see. Look up the Messianic Seal sign for the first Christian Church and you won't find a cross, but a symbol of being a fisher for men, lifting them upward to the elements of David and Soloman and going ultimate toward the light of the original truths of how Moses founded the Jewish religion to resist these gods of tyranny that stemmed from Babylon that became the central Satanic influence of Egyt.

Those that seek the real truths soon find the real symbol of the Christian Church as it existed in Jerusalem. Jesus was often inspired by the Story of Jonah, and how people became fish food. Lots of Jesus followers were fisherman and appreciated the story. When they taught how to become fishers of men, they sought out people at a real low point in the lives and taught them the better beliefs.

Thus, became the real symbol for the Christian Church, the pathway upward to Heaven's light, that didn't have any of the Nimrod/Tammuz cross problems, and spoke of uplifting people unto the light of truth. Jesus became the pathway to the enlightenment, as this was the way he taught and the Messianc Seal speaks to this visually and symbolically.

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www.threemacs.org...

How Many Distinct Symbols Do You See??


The Messianic Seal
of the Church of Jerusalem

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See for oneself the real symbol on the URL. Toss out the Cross and the bad, emphasize only the good.


edit on 13-3-2012 by MagnumOpus because: How to use the good symbols for religion and reject the bad and the evil symbols.



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by MagnumOpus
I do believe you are a really messed up person,


You may believe what you like. I think I've already made it clear that your beliefs are of a very high degree of disinterest to me. Everyone can believe as they will - you included - and it makes no difference to me at all unless and until that belief starts to infringe on ME.



as you have expressed your hate of the Christians. Hate the Islamics. Hate just about everything, except your perverted views of fantasy reality.


Typical Socialist debate tactic - if you can't assail the logic of an argument, try tarring the messenger instead, accuse them of some heinous social "crime" in an effort to shame them into submission - nowhere have I expressed any hate of anyone - not Christians, not Muslims, not you, not anyone. Arguing against a misguided belief that is continually assailing you is not "hate", nor is it "bigotry" to refuse to succumb to someone else's belief simply because they say you have to.

I don't hate Muslims - some are among my dearest friends. I don't hate Christians - I would identify myself AS one if they weren't so fractious in their infighting over their various interpretations of the Bible.

Standing against a philosophical argument is NOT the same thing as "hating" anyone.



I don't think you'd like even the issue of the One God concept,


The One God concept is not what is being pushed here, nor is that as a basic concept anything I would find offensive. It happens that I firmly believe in One God, and argue ceaselessly in favor of that concept when it is assailed... in the proper venue. Arguing in favor of a Sumerian Pantheon, a plurality of long dead gods, in a thread whose topic is neither religion nor ancient events, nor Mesopotamia is not a proper venue for that argument.



as yours is a pagan god that seeks riches, self aggrandization, and hate of all but yourself. You are an obnoxious Bigot of most religion issues.


I may be guilty as charged (i.e "obnoxious" or "bigoted") - or I may not. The fact is, I don't care at all about the charge itself as leveled against me. On the other hand, you know nothing of my God, and are supremely unqualified to make the above assessment as to my religious beliefs.



So, I don't think I value your opinion except for a place in the landfill as fertilizer, and even there it is unwelcome.


Good. the feeling is mutual, and I don't expect you to care about my opinion any more than I care about yours - especially as expressed just above. whether or not you "value my opinion" is also entirely irrelevant to a thread on Iran. I will give my opinion, whether you value it or not, and you are not required to care. Nor am I required to care about yours - but I do expect it to somehow mesh with the topic at hand, rather than go off on an unrelated tangent.



I do value Thomas Jefferson's ideas for Jesus, and he agreed well with Islam's view of Jesus. Jefferson's ideas on Constitution and Religion were spot on, as he recognized the need of not getting involved in the endless foreign wars and the need for the nation to keep control of money and banking to protect the freedom of the people.


Jefferson's opinions on religion are his own, and none of my business. Do you happen to have a copy of his version of the New Testament? I do. Do you know what the Christian objection to his views on Jesus is? I do - the basis for that objection is found in that Jeffersonian New Testament.

BTW, I'm sure you are aware of, but will not point out, that Jefferson was the first American president to lead a war against Muslims. It was the same war in which the marine Corps Hymn gained it's famous line running "From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli". An honest appraisal of his views on "foreign adventurism" would necessarily include that episode.

You do realize that Jefferson was neither a Christian nor a Muslim - he was a Deist - and so his views on Jesus are no more nor less valid than anyone else's, right?



JFK also recognized these higher realm issues that would ban the lower realm issues of Fed Reserve, ban protecting Israel's bomb, then apply non-proliferation to Israel and nuclear disarm Israel.


I'm going to need a solid reference for the assertion that JFK had intentions if interfering with the sovereign affairs of a foreign nation against international law. Unless Israel signed the Treaty - which did not exist in the days of JFK - he had no legal basis for action there.



Islam's issues with Christians is the Cross that stems from Tammuz, it connects with the issues for Satan, as do the Trinity issue applied to Christ. Islam likes the real Jesus theme, but not the perversions adopted by Constantine and the continuation of the false image from the wants of capitalistic goals.


No. Those are not the Islamic issues with Christianity. learn about Islam, learn about the history of Islam and it's relations with Christianity, learn something - anything! - about Christianity, then try to make that argument again, with a straight face. The Qur'an itself sets forth the Islamic objection to Christianity, and that particular passage is engraved in the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem, on the Temple mount (al-Haram to Muslims, who refuse to acknowledge the prior claim of the Jewish Temple). it does not mention Tammuz, nor a cross, nor even Satan.

An assault against "capitalism" is nothing more than a Socialist smoke screen. It in no way supports Islam - some of my Islamic friends are among the most truly capitalistic people I have EVER met - and as a matter of fact, Muslims do not get along with Socialists at all well since Socialists reject any god in favor of men. that's what the whole war in Afghanistan was about against the Soviets - from the Islamic perspective of the mujahideen.

If you are a Socialist - and I believe there is a good chance that is the case, based upon clues you have dropped in your posts here and there throughout the thread - you should be made aware that you are courting disaster by attempting to Woo Muslims. Russia learned that lesson too late, and China is in the process of learning it as we speak.



In Egypt, the Christians are the garbage collectors and they live apart from the city on a mesa high area where they can raise their pigs. But the Islamics there occasionally raid the Christian areas and kill all their pigs.


So much for the religious tolerance everyone claims Islam espouses. Thank you for pointing that out.



Islam likes the real Jesus theme, but they really don't like the perversion of Christ that too many Chistians unwittingly follow.


that is a matter of opinion (i.e. the "REAL Jesus theme") and is a matter to be taken up between you and whichever god, gods, or God gets ahold of you in due time, just as it is for Muslims and the myriad Christian factions. We will all answer for what we believe at some point, but not to any other human.



The Christians do have a serious problem that stems from the Trinity and Son of god concepts. They use the "Son of god" in the attempt to make Jesus as god, which can't really happen. While Jesus came along as a Son of god, and he was to remove the Babylon Talmud concepts of god linked with Tammuz, and that in some way made him god in a loose way as the old god concept was made dead and the Son survived as god. The reality is the real God is immortal, never dies, and Jesus can't then replace the real God.


That is the shoddiest concept of what Christians believe that I have ever seen - other than the Islamic concept of what Christians believe as explained in the Qur'an. Neither your notion of what Christians believe nor the Islamic notion of what Christians believe can ever trump what the Christians THEMSELVES explain as their belief. It stands to reason that a Christian would know what they believe better than any outsider ever could. That is no different than a Christian who has never been a Muslim trying to explain the basic concepts of Islam - it will never happen in any accurate manner, because Christians in general have never known the inside of Islam - only what they see on the outside.

Sort of like your concept of Christianity.



The Book of Barnabis speaks to this, and Jesus didn't really see himself as the immortal God. Yet, Jesus saw himself as being devinely inspired to do the work for God. Jesus can't really become God, yet some attempt these wrong interpretations of many of the issues. Even Thomas Jefferson cut out a bible that removed these bad concepts assigned to Jesus.


The Book of Barnabas is a spurious creation written to assault Christianity - probably by Muslims but at least one version of it's origin has it having been written by a Jew who converted to Islam. The oldest confirmed copies of it date no further back than the 16th century, and not even fragments of an earlier version have ever been discovered. I'm aware that there is a recently "discovered" copy that is as yet undated, but is presumed to be no older than the 7th century - the birth of Islam - and is quite likely much younger than that. we'll have to wait on the dating results to see.

The Book of Barnabas can in no way, neither internally nor externally, be traced to the actual Barnabas. Internal evidence points to a 16th century origin in Italy, at a time when Italy was under assault by Islamic raiders.



I see you as a bigoted fanatic with a fantasy religion of which you are the sole member. imho


I should care about YOUR proclamations against MY religion... why? I should care about YOUR assessment of MY "bigotry"... why? I'm not a Socialist, and uninformed and malicious attempts at social pressure leave no marks upon me at all.

Have fun trying, though!



edit on 2012/3/13 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


You should put "external" tags on all the external stuff you copypasta here, posting it as you do leaves the impression that you wrote it, which is plagarism, copyright violation, and a violation of ATS T+C's.

The referred to post isn't the first time you've done that in this thread - there are several other examples - but it really should be the last.

Clearly mark YOUR opinions as yours, and the opinions of others as THEIRS.



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 11:44 AM
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reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


Christians do not get to pick and choose the parts of the Bible they WANT to believe, and the parts they WANT to reject, any more than Muslims can do so with the Qur'an, or Jews can do so with the Torah.

You - and Jefferson - may believe as you will concerning religions that are not yours, such as Christianity. that is a personal choice, and one that you and you only will have to answer to Allah (or whomever) for on the Last Day. You will answer for your own beliefs, not mine or any one else's, just as we will have to answer for ours - but not yours.



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 11:55 AM
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it is funny when proof of Iran´s threat, intent, or general danger level can not be addressed logically, the pro war people resort to bashing on them because of their religion. I am sorry, what uncultured and base arguments could possibly serve the rational thinking person I will never know.

If you hate Muslims or just don't like them or what ever way you phrase it so you feel its justified to generalize about an entire people, you cant say that is a reason for war. This thread, Iran must be stopped, is arguing now that Iran is a spiritual boogie man. OK. then they will not go to your heaven. That´s it. In the real world, they are just another nation.

Should we argue for war in light of the entirely false premise it is based on? Is there yet any PROOF that Iran is the nuclear threat we are all told they are? No. Just opinion and banter. No substance to the arguments. Just intellectualize hate or fear or whatever you want to call it and keep telling yourself you do this for the right reasons. That´s all that can be done, short of fabricating the evidence.



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 12:09 PM
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Most of the Iran must be stopped non-sense is pure Zionist inspired religious bigotry. It is all about power and money using religion's false teachings to attempt to fool the masses that Zionist's Babylon games are the words of god. They are nothing but the words for greed and power to make the masses support economic slavery.

More on how to get back to some original source issues for the Christian Symbolism.

Old relics show the original motivations:

=====

www.biblesearchers.com...

One day, I believe it was on my third visit, Tech Oteeoos showed me, to my absolute amazement, several ancient artifacts which he had excavated at a nearby site, in the vicinity of the building traditionally known as the original church founded by James the Just, the brother of Jesus. The central feature of each piece was a hand executed rendition of the symbol, either etched into or painted upon the surface.

=======

The messages from other URL's are always clearly set apart via ==== sign partitions and/or Quotation signs and the link URL shown, consistently. I find this method much more visually pleasing and sufficient. It doesn't looked chopped up and compacts well into the flow. The method pasted the moderators, they had no problem with this method and it looked fine to them. It meets the ATS rules for showing attributions. My way is faster and simpler, and looks good to me. I like it, you don't, so go cry and whine in the corner some more.

Besides, nobody is reading your chopped up verbose long boring spagetti postings, as I sure stopped paying attention past the first couple lines. I certainly don't value your views, and most others see you as just a troll making noise.

edit on 13-3-2012 by MagnumOpus because: Hate exposes the Bigots and their irrational designs to stop Iran



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 12:43 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


More of your non-sense. Most religions allow a good degree of variabilty in their beliefs. Lots of this variabilty is due to the uses of allegory methods in their presentations and there are many times wide ranges of interpretations. The very existance of these methods extends there is no unique interpretation.

Those adept to these allegory presentations see the issues of Moses and the Burning Bush as being all about a volcanic area and the emissions of acid vapors from the Rift Valley Zone that Moses was living near Midian in Saudi Arabia. Moses Ten Commandments were a departure from the hundreds of laws from the Satanic linked laws derived from Babylon that infected Egypt's beliefs. Moses staff was a sign of power from those knowledgeble of alchemy and the imager of the snakes is that of alchemical poison methods.

There is an old saying in Judaism in that when two Rabbis get together there are ten differing opions on any religious theme. Judaism allows for Messianic Jews and a wide range of beliefs from the Satanic values of Babylon Emphasis to Jesus was the true Messiah.

Same goes for Christians, they don't follow in any lockstep, like some Hitler Army. And a good many of them are off into the values of Satan's Babylon, yet there are many Christians that are waking up to just how greatly they have been had and used. Some even know and study the Essene and Jesus and find the higher realm issues that do cast Jesus and the Essene in the correct light.

Islam's big issue is one God and don't support the Babylon Satan issues or attempt to corrupt their political system with them. Also, don't support the Rothschild Banking Usury game. Islam has lots of Jewish folks living in Iran. Islam has lots of Christian folks in Egypt.

Islam has a wide range of belief, some extreme, some moderate. Two plus million Iranian Islamic folks live in California and get along well.

So, this is more of your bogus nonsense of trying harder to be a bigot. imho

edit on 13-3-2012 by MagnumOpus because: None truthful opinions exposed per religion



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by BIHOTZ
it is funny when proof of Iran´s threat, intent, or general danger level can not be addressed logically, the pro war people resort to bashing on them because of their religion. I am sorry, what uncultured and base arguments could possibly serve the rational thinking person I will never know.


It's funny you should mention that. look back and see who first introduced religion into the thread with long rambling rants on long dead Mesopoamian deities. By your own admission, that person is the "pro-war" candidate here.



Should we argue for war in light of the entirely false premise it is based on? Is there yet any PROOF that Iran is the nuclear threat we are all told they are? No. Just opinion and banter. No substance to the arguments. Just intellectualize hate or fear or whatever you want to call it and keep telling yourself you do this for the right reasons. That´s all that can be done, short of fabricating the evidence.


Evidence, yes, proof, no. There really isn't much in the way of "proof" for ANYTHING in this tired old world, but evidence abounds.

"Evidence" and "proof" are not the same thing, nor should they be confused.



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by MagnumOpus
 




How does that rant apply to the post it purports to respond to? Are you implying tht by having differing opinions, it becomes OK for modern religions to chop up their holy books and just toss out the parts they don't want to follow?

Variant opinions are a function of variant interpretations of the content there, not a function of which content is present or allowable.

I dare you to take a razor blade to a Qur'an and remove only the parts you find objectionable, and let that "editing" become widely known. I flat out dare you to do so. It should be no problem at all if what you say here about the reasons for variant opinions among Islamic sects is true.



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 01:16 PM
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Let us let you be the test, as you are the one that agrees the Quran and Islam are despots and need to be stopped. You tell they are out of control, dishonest, telling lies on nuclear projects.

And we have seen you make that widely known here. imho

So, I don't need to do anything but watch you and your hissy fits.





edit on 13-3-2012 by MagnumOpus because: The hissy fits of trolls



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 03:41 PM
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This thread was started by what many tell was a trolling game to garner some sort of public support for the US to take down Iran for Israel. It hasn't worked out too well for those trying to get the US to attack Iran. They appeared to want to gather some support to push Obama to push harder on Iran. Obama told Israel things it wanted to hear for political games running into the Nov's election, but Obama is a Muslum and has no love for BiBi the radical Zionist.

Now, more and more of the games Israel plays with politics and news is showing, as well as their Internet Forum workers trying to push the idea of the US needs to blow up Iran for us poor defenseless instigators for wars and nuclear proliferation.

More News on Iran and the Parchin site:

======

www.guardian.co.uk...

TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — Iran is rejecting allegations that it attempted to clean up radioactive traces possibly left by tests of a nuclear-weapon trigger at a military site.

======

As we dig along the issues of nuclear weapons proliferation we find more and more dirt on the Zionists games to support nuclear proliferation. Not only dirt, but issues of traitors and worse. Everyone knows Israel was behind the South African Nuclear Bomb and has known for decades, but some hard copy comes across now to expose the lies:

=====

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Israel 'offered to sell South Africa nuclear weapons'
Shimon Peres, the Israeli president and Nobel Peace Prize recipient, was facing deep embarrassment yesterday after it emerged that he allegedly offered to sell Apartheid South Africa nuclear weapons.

------

They will also cause discomfort for Israel, which has long been at pains to shroud its own nuclear capability in mystery. With an international conference to shore up the nuclear non-proliferation treaty under way in New York, Israel is under pressure from Arab states to sign up to the pact – a step it has long resisted.

-------

The deal collapsed on cost issues. South Africa later developed six nuclear weapons, an arsenal long rumoured to have been built with Israeli help. According to academics, Israel gave South Africa 30g of tritium, a gas used to enhance the explosive power of nuclear weapons, in exchange for a large quantity of uranium.

==========

It gets worse. Note that Arnon Milchan is the Executive Producer for Oliver Stone's JFK Movie and associated with being a Mossad Agent. It is what most consider why the Movie JFK didn't get into the rest of the Jim Garrision story that tracked down PERMINDEX and wanted to talk with Louis Bloomfield over the attempts on DeGaulle and the killing of JFK. Interesting all this cooperation of South Africa with PERMINDEX and they all this nuclear bomb proliferation and secret nuclear testing. They didn't think they'd get detected, but they were the second it happened:

=========

www.wisconsinproject.org...

On September 22, 1979, an American "Vela" satellite detected a distinctive double flash off the southern coast of Africa. The satellite data, together with other information from U.S. intelligence sources, offered strong evidence that the flash had been caused by a low-yield nuclear explosion. Defense Department and State Department officials pointed out that this was only the 42nd time that a satellite of this type had registered such a signal; and in the first 41 cases, according to these officials, the Vela had correctly detected atmospheric nuclear tests. A State Department official later told the Washington Post: "Look, the Vela satellite picked up a signature like this 41 times before. In every one of those 41 instances, there was never any question about the fact that a nuclear test had taken place. Each of those 41 was undeniably a nuclear explosion. This was, too."

A 1979 CIA memorandum stated that "of all the countries which might have been responsible for the 22 September event, Israel would probably have been the only one for which a clandestine approach would have been virtually its only option." The CIA also observed that Israelis had participated in South African nuclear research during the preceding several years.

-------

Israel's continuing need for imports was revealed in 1985, when Los Angeles businessman Richard Smyth was indicted for smuggling to Israel 810 krytrons, high-speed electronic switches used as nuclear weapon detonators. The krytrons were shipped between 1979 and 1983 to an Israeli firm under contract to the government for defense work. The Israeli Ministry of Defense returned only 469 of the krytrons, and Smyth vanished a week before he was to appear for trial. Records obtained by NBC News from Smyth's firm, Milco International, also showed that two related firms, Heli Trading and Milchan Brothers, both owned by Hollywood producer Arnon Milchan, ordered large quantities of missile-related equipment and materials between 1977 and 1982. Among the nuclear items listed were the 810 krytrons, plus neutron generators, high-speed oscilloscopes and high-voltage condensers.

========


And the story of Israel and the Bomb doesn't stop there. JFK was talking with France's DeGaulle to get France out of the business of helping Israel with the bomb and the leaking of weapons design information from former nuclear bomb project's classified information. As JFK's suggestions succeeded in getting France to quit the Israeli nuke proliferation, a Zionist supporting group called PERMINDEX became involved in attempts to kill DeGaulle. DeGaulle survived multiple attempts to kill him and French and European Intelligence tracked down the PERMINDEX elements as being responsible. As INTERPOL and the Europeans got onto the scams, PERMINDEX was chased out of Europe and ran to South Africa to hide their associations and records dealings.

Soon, they (PERMINDEX operatives) were to reappear in Dallas and Montreal as Ferenc Nagy and Louis Bloomfield and both had associations critial for a DeGaulle type hit on JFK for attempting to put sanctions against Iraels efforts to gain a nuclear bomb. Money had been passed to France via Guy Bannister for this PERMINDEX hit on DeGaulle. After the JFK hit, LBJ helped Israel to get the bomb, doors opened to steal enriched uranium from NUMEC in Apollo, Pa. and help from Edward Teller's many trips to Israel gave Israel the bomb in return for dealings to kill JFK for LBJ's and the Zionist's interests.

Thus, goes the real story of Israel, via PERMINDEX's Zionists, in killing a US President to get its way with nuclear proliferation. imho

I don't think anything Iran has done can measure up to that degree of depravity from the extremist games of Zionists trying to dominate and control the US and pull the wool over the US Citizens Eyes.



edit on 13-3-2012 by MagnumOpus because: Usually Mossad linked agents try to ignore the Israel interests in killing JFK



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by MagnumOpus

Let us let you be the test, as you are the one that agrees the Quran and Islam are despots and need to be stopped. You tell they are out of control, dishonest, telling lies on nuclear projects.



You seem to be confusing "Islam" with "Iran". check the spelling - they are two different things. I've not said those things about Islam or the Qur'an... matter of fact, I'm not entirely sure I've said them anywhere about Iran, but some of the charges DO fit Iran pretty well.




And we have seen you make that widely known here. imho

So, I don't need to do anything but watch you and your hissy fits.



You seem to be terribly confused - you should probably either take a nap or down another cup of coffee. Only a thoroughly confused individual, unable to differentiate between "Iran" and "Islam" would make that sort of mistake.

Who is this "we" you keep calling on? Have you got a mouse in your pocket, or are you trying to employ the "royal We"?



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