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Let's Cut to the Chase - Iran Must Be Stopped

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posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 01:37 AM
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reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


If you say so.


There's no such critter as a "defensive nuclear weapon".

Trash can lids are defensive. They shield you from flying stuff. Bricks are offensive. You throw them at folks when you see they've dropped their trash can lids.

Nukes are offensive.

You throw them at folks and blow THEIR stuff up.

Anyone with nukes has the potential to "go nuclear". That's why they HAVE nukes.

"Nuclear defense" involves heavy rubber suits, big brushes, and soapy water, not nuclear weapons.



edit on 2012/3/10 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 01:55 AM
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Maybe you should go have a long talk with the US Dept of Defense then, as they have all the nuclear weapons. So, by your definition they need to be called the US Dept of Offense.

And the US has all these nukes on Diego Garcia----well out of the US borders. Same rules apply to the US?

Bunch of US nukes sitting around the Oceans with subs, well outside the US and in other countries back door.

So, is it Dept of Offense or the Dept of Defense?


The correct definition gets down to who attack who, one becomes the aggressor and the other the defender.

If Israel attacks Iran, there is the right of defense under International Law, and their allies can come to their defense.


edit on 10-3-2012 by MagnumOpus because: Poor definition skills.



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 02:19 AM
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Originally posted by MagnumOpus
Maybe you should go have a long talk with the US Dept of Defense then, as they have all the nuclear weapons. So, by your definition they need to be called the US Dept of Offense.


They should be called the "War Department", as they were for most of US history. "Department of Defense" is an Orwellian turn of phrase, a bit of "Newspeak"



And the US has all these nukes on Diego Garcia----well out of the US borders. Same rules apply to the US?

Bunch of US nukes sitting around the Oceans with subs, well outside the US and in other countries back door.


Yes. Who have they thrown a nuke at from Diego Garcia? That's a US base, right?



So, is it Dept of Offense or the Dept of Defense?


War Department.



The correct definition gets down to who attack who, one becomes the aggressor and the other the defender.


Nope.

I carry a gun for a living. My kevlar is "defensive". My sidearm is OFFENSIVE - some times more offensive than others. Even if I shoot it "in defense", it's still an offensive weapon, and shooting it an act of offense.



If Israel attacks Iran, there is the right of defense under International Law, and their allies can come to their defense.


Yes. Any strike is an act of war, even "pre-emptive strikes". I've never let that stop me on a personal level, but Israel will have to make her own decision in the matter on a national level.



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 02:43 AM
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Originally posted by nenothtu

Yes. Any strike is an act of war, even "pre-emptive strikes".




So, when Israel attacked Iraq to blow up their nuclear reactor over pre-emptive issues, they committed an act of war on Iraq.

If Israel does the same thing to Iran and bombs their nuclear sites, that will be an act of war on Iran. The Iran allies can come to the Iran defense.

And Israel's new sub fleet, from the Germans, will be all about offensive methods to put nukes in the world's back door.


Just who did you say were the offense groups running around with nukes outside their borders? The US Dept of Defense is really the US War Department, and the same nuclear armed state of Israel is the Israeli War Department. Israel's nukes are about war then.

Iran doesn't appear to need nukes, when China and Russia have lots of them.

edit on 10-3-2012 by MagnumOpus because: Pre-emptive strikes are acts of war



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 03:45 AM
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Originally posted by MagnumOpus
Maybe you should go have a long talk with the US Dept of Defense then, as they have all the nuclear weapons. So, by your definition they need to be called the US Dept of Offense.

And the US has all these nukes on Diego Garcia----well out of the US borders. Same rules apply to the US?

Bunch of US nukes sitting around the Oceans with subs, well outside the US and in other countries back door.

So, is it Dept of Offense or the Dept of Defense?


The correct definition gets down to who attack who, one becomes the aggressor and the other the defender.

If Israel attacks Iran, there is the right of defense under International Law, and their allies can come to their defense.


edit on 10-3-2012 by MagnumOpus because: Poor definition skills.


which will provoke ww3 of course. so anyone wanting to start crap with iran right now over something so flimsy as nukes which the rest of the world has PLENTY of, they are provoking ww3.

so why would anyone want to start ww3 one might ask. look at the world financial crisis and look at china. i recently made a thread about Taiwan now being a so called province of china when it fought for it's own government and helped the US fight the Japanese, so it seem like a huge slap in the face for the UN to not recognize taiwan as it's own democratic nation and not a province of communist China, but since the US had a hand in putting them where they are, it wasn't too hard to now say "ok, we can just call this a province of china now since we owe them a lot of money anyway... maybe this will keep them happy a while"

now you have the Chinese that have invested in a lot of US territory. You have the Chinese saying that it would be best to make a new currency when the dollar went so low. You basically have China wanting to lay claim on things the US claim is theirs, but have done so by the book seemingly... but this is where our so called free system of usury has gotten us... and who knows/ china might even run the US better than our sold out government is doing. who knows?

but instead of just falling to a non-hostile takeover, some would rather spill our US troops blood by going ahead and starting ww3 by poking at Iran. we poke at iran and Iran gets ballastic, then Russia gets involved and we have to take an aggressive defense 9which would not really be a defense but an OFFENSE in disguise) then china gets involved and a whole bunch of other countries until we are at all out war.

and whoever wins no longer owes the other side.

if we win, do we have to pay back china?

Anyone who is falling for the idea that this has anything to do with anything but money is pretty dumb, imo.

however, if we lose, then we will have much more Chinese influence within our borders if not an entirely different country and the EU will also change as well as the UN and then Dead Sea Products of potash and the like will be more available to Arab nations who need it and China and Russia will get cheaper oil.

This is all about the stupid usury system these assholes started so when it bites them in the ass, who can they really blame but themselves? On the other hand, china made it's way and played a better hand at the expense of it's impoverished citizens not unlike Russia, so if THEY lose then maybe that would be something for them to think about as well. Are their people that committed to that cause... to have suffered and worked hard, will they fight us just as well? maybe so, maybe so.

I am undecided who has committed the greater evil throughout history but me thinks it's all the same #.
It's hard to tell without all the details but isn't it ludicrously obvious what our US leaders are doing? The repubs are pulling for this war because THEY DON'T HAVE TO GO FIGHT AND WANT TO CONTINUE BEATING THEIR CHESTS AS AMERICAN ASSHOLES AT THE EXPENSE OF YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN WHO HAVE NO CLUE WHAT THIS IS EVEN ABOUT!

either way, they should settle this WITHOUT WAR.

regardless of anything obama has done in the past, him trying to stave off a war effort against Iran is commendable. i don't care what you think of him or what faith you have, you cannot deny that it is a commendable effort to just not jump in the fire. thought this was what he was doing but he is backing off in the last few days. i hope he maintains that stance post election. THAT IS... if there even IS a post election.

Do not go fight for them.

DO NOT SUPPORT THEIR MONEY WAR!

Anybody who falls for it = idiots!

This earth belongs to God, we should be under God's rule and not MANS rule.

...but people keep looking to these men to solve all problems.
that reminds me of now thinking that the Antichrist might not be so much a particular man as it is a particular position... beware of believing in false promises from those positions... FROM ANY MAN. And maybe that is why we cannot know which one, because it could be any one of them getting power from the beast.
edit on 10-3-2012 by BlackSatinDancer because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 04:10 AM
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There is no stopping Iran. We will try but fail. Russia and China will see to that. Of course i mean try by sanctions and diplomacy. From there Israel will take over the task of stopping Iran but with force. And ran will retaliate along with others that share Iran's agenda of destroying Israel and taking their holy land. You will us stepping in to guide and protect Israel but also you will see Russia join forces with Iran along with China. Why do you think China has been growing and getting their military ready? I hope I'm wrong cause I've got children and a life to live. However the Bible is not wrong which means its not a lie. So all we can do really is watch it all unfold and pray that we'll be blessed for helping Israel in their time of need.



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 04:23 AM
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I think China would rather have a peaceful takeover rather than a violent one, but that doesn't mean it wants a takeover at all if it could get cooperation with US leaders. Maybe more food, less usury... new system.

i say let Israel stick it's own damn neck out and if they take it... they take it. Arab countries will have more of what they want and China and Russia will have more of what they want. we need to move to alternate energy anyway... screw oil. Let those who are freezing have it and let us go back to farming and get rid of this usury system these assholes built long ago.

Either way, kids shouldn't being going to war over this crap.

China has yet to attack us despite it's boom in economy and miltary. Wars are expensive.
I'm sure they would rather have cooperation but LOTS OF COUNTRIES are tired of this bull# that the elites started wayyyy back when. We have dumbed ourselves down too much to really know what is going on.

FURTHERMORE... there are PLENTY of people in OUR government who are NOT stupid zionists and would NOT support this and have seen through propaganda. Why do you think we DO have some good ties with China?

this is no coincidence.

There is simply a bunch of Zionist assholes in our country and corporations and MEDIA FOR CHRIST SAKE that need to GET THE HELL OUT!

Either way, attacking Iran is NOT the answer.

that is the wrapping the noose around the necks of young men and women and letting rich assholes push them over the edge.

GOD should rule!

GOD is love.... GOD is peace.

Not the warmonger that religion makes him out to be.
edit on 10-3-2012 by BlackSatinDancer because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 04:40 AM
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Thats very true God is a loving God. And he loves everybody of course. But he gave Israel to his people. You know the same people that your calling zionis t. Oh and one more quick known fact. Jesus was Jewish. Which made him a Jew. So whoever shall bless Israel I shall bless them basically. People should be more careful with their choose of words.



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 04:40 AM
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Thats very true God is a loving God. And he loves everybody of course. But he gave Israel to his people. You know the same people that your calling zionis t. Oh and one more quick known fact. Jesus was Jewish. Which made him a Jew. So whoever shall bless Israel I shall bless them basically. People should be more careful with their choose of words.



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 04:49 AM
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Originally posted by Vsc1981
Thats very true God is a loving God. And he loves everybody of course. But he gave Israel to his people. You know the same people that your calling zionis t. Oh and one more quick known fact. Jesus was Jewish. Which made him a Jew. So whoever shall bless Israel I shall bless them basically. People should be more careful with their choose of words.


Do some research, because God TOOK it from those people.

And Christ came to show that a lot simply *got it wrong*



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 05:01 AM
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Where in the world do you get your research. Mine comes from the Bible and the last time i checked that was God's words and work. Do you own a Bible cause if not i highly recommend borrowing or buying one. And ya know just taking a look through it. Maybe read some of it. It can be a very interesting book.



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 06:15 AM
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Originally posted by Vsc1981
Where in the world do you get your research. Mine comes from the Bible and the last time i checked that was God's words and work. Do you own a Bible cause if not i highly recommend borrowing or buying one. And ya know just taking a look through it. Maybe read some of it. It can be a very interesting book.


read this

www.daniels70weeks.com...

because basically it states that God put Israel on probation for disobedience and at the end of their probation Daniel sought to rebuild the temple and the end of this period was when they crucified Jesus in the "69 week" and then in week 70 they stoned Stephen.... so, if you go back to the Torah and read how god decided to do this and then gave them a second chance and you will find how badly they screwed it all up....and then Jesus says in Matthew that he knew this was going to happen all along... along with Armageddon.
................
Mark 13

1And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!

2And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,

4Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

5And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:

6For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

7And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.

8For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.

9But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

10And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

11But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

12Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.

13And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
.............

Get it? Got it? GOOD

Now do your own damn homework and stop being lazy.


edit on 10-3-2012 by BlackSatinDancer because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 07:08 AM
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Originally posted by Vsc1981
Where in the world do you get your research. Mine comes from the Bible and the last time i checked that was God's words and work. Do you own a Bible cause if not i highly recommend borrowing or buying one. And ya know just taking a look through it. Maybe read some of it. It can be a very interesting book.



You don't know the religion issues and are the problem. Jesus was an Essene and Jewish and didn't follow or subscribe to the Babylon Talmud, which was the Pharisee, Sadducee and Second Temple Evil.

Gods Chose people were the ones that believed in Jesus brand of God, and those that followed the 2 nd temple were considered to not be following any pious Judaic belief. God's Chosen People were only the Jewish alligned with Jesus theme and those are few and far between. Only those people were supposed to be allowed to reform in Israel.

Most of the Israeli ZIonists hate Jesus, don't consider him the messiah, and are still looking for their anti-christ messiah. All those are not the Chosen People. Failure to take note of that difference, appears to make you one with the anti-Christ or Satan's values. imho

Zionists broke that warning, which causes all these wars and other problems.



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 07:13 AM
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Originally posted by MagnumOpus

So, when Israel attacked Iraq to blow up their nuclear reactor over pre-emptive issues, they committed an act of war on Iraq.


Yes. A bombing is not an act of peace.



If Israel does the same thing to Iran and bombs their nuclear sites, that will be an act of war on Iran. The Iran allies can come to the Iran defense.


I thought I already said yes, that is an act of war. You keep saying that like you think it's a bad thing. It's not, necessarily. Acts of war can either be bad or good, but the term itself doesn't have an inherent value judgement.

Germany's invasion of Poland was an act of war, but so was The allied invasion of Germany and subsequent liberation of the prisoner camps.

As far as "Iran's allies coming to her defense", I think it might be better stated that Iran will find out just exactly who her allies are if it comes to that.



And Israel's new sub fleet, from the Germans, will be all about offensive methods to put nukes in the world's back door.


That may worry you, but I can honestly say that I'm not rushing to reinforce my own back door with concrete against the potential of Israeli nukes. You say Israel has nukes, and you keep trying to push the contention that they're just itching to drop one in everyone's back pocket - so why haven't they yet? If they already have the nukes and the bloodlust, what the hell is the holdup?



Just who did you say were the offense groups running around with nukes outside their borders?


None. I didn't say there were any offensive groups running around with nukes. if there were, there would be mushroom clouds growing all over the place. You seem to be confusing offensive weaponry with offensive persons.



The US Dept of Defense is really the US War Department, and the same nuclear armed state of Israel is the Israeli War Department. Israel's nukes are about war then.


I have no idea what Israel calls their equivalent of the US War Department, nor do I care. ALL weapons are about war, not just nukes. ALL weapons. Are you smarter than a fifth grader? Even fifth graders know that weapons aren't about knitting sweaters.



Iran doesn't appear to need nukes, when China and Russia have lots of them.


Well, I reckon we may get to see just how THAT goes if you get the war you're hoping for. Care to make a side wager? You seem to place an awful lot of trust in people that I've not found to be particularly trustworthy - sort of like Syria did with Iran. See how that's working out?



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by BlackSatinDancer

This earth belongs to God, we should be under God's rule and not MANS rule.



Looks like you'll do just fine under the Global Caliphate. From the rest of your post, it looks like you're even eager for it.



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 07:38 AM
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reply to post by Vsc1981
 


reply to post by Vsc1981
 


reply to post by Vsc1981
 


reply to post by BlackSatinDancer
 


reply to post by Vsc1981
 


reply to post by BlackSatinDancer
 


reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


Damn! Did they close the religion forum when I wasn't looking, so that now we've got to discuss the relative merits of various people's interpretations such as dispensationalism, premillenialism, post millenialism, pre-trib, mid-trib, post trib, etc here in the Middle East Issues forum?

I thought this was more along the lines of world politics than along the lines of pulpit politics.

Just so you'll know, I'm a pan-millenialist, 'cause I think it'll pan out the way it's supposed to, rather than along any guy's interpretations...



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 07:48 AM
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Originally posted by BlackSatinDancer

i say let Israel stick it's own damn neck out and if they take it... they take it. Arab countries will have more of what they want and China and Russia will have more of what they want. we need to move to alternate energy anyway... screw oil. Let those who are freezing have it and let us go back to farming and get rid of this usury system these assholes built long ago.



Congratulations.

It appears you are one more that is coming to the reality of the issues of religion have been corrupted, and this plays a huge role in the Iran Crisis and World Wars in general. One key element to consider is the issues are usury was the way to Empire via wealth of the few. It appears to have started in Babylon and is considered associated with that great evil corruptor of religion. It infected the Jewish religion via the Babylon Talmuds teachings of the same methods and it seeks private domination of the world, and running over Governments that serves all the people.

The world came into these world wars over those Europeans that gained their power and wealth via usury and they liked the wealth and the feel of power over the world. They pushed the US into Income Taxes to pay bigger taxes to support WWI for Europe. Same thing with WWII as Hitler's Socialism resisted the Oligarch's need to control others.

Now, with WWIII, it is this same need for power and control by the wealthy private class that seeks to own and control everything, and leave the masses poor, deprived of the real truths via corrrupt press, and the same via the corruption of religious teachings themselves. Islam stuck to a lot more of the Pious God issues, as the others began to worship Private Wealth and their domination over the US as it fell from within.

America isn't the America that our founding fathers designed, and America has become too much like Nimrod's Babylon and the Great Evil concerned more for money and power than for good stewardship for the Citizens and being a good servant to others. Being in Govt these days is all about avoiding accountabilty, enriching themselves, and not serving the people so everyone has a good job, good style of living, and is given the truth in Govt and religion.

One should fully expect this level of corruption in the US is going to be challenged with one last great war, and the collective world forces against this great evil is going to distroy this system. This will be good in one respect, as the great evil with get distroyed and we might be able to start over again, for the ones that survived. But the return of American values is going to have to reject in total these usury banking systems, these corporations of the bankers that ignore the general good stewardship toward the American People, and again teaching the issues of the Constitution designers that rejected these corrupt foreign wars on the side of Satan's Babylon designs for NWO and world power over the masses via private ownership and control of everything by the oligarchic few that hated the real message of the Essene and Jesus. The Essene was basically they all believed in being good servants to others, care for all, and a system that was highly socilaistic that allowed wealth to be accumulated only in the interests of everyone and not the few. It was this concept that the Constitution sought to always keep the power of money in the People's hands and only for their collective benefit. That wise concept was too socialistic for the capitalists, who have most all become the anti-christs that helped fund and paint Jesus into being Nimrod and having all the old Babylon associations.

The US has a huge world force turning against them, Russia, China, Pakistan, Iran, etc., and there is no way that America's perversions against Freedom for the oligarchs to plunder others will survive. WWIII will be nuclear and the bombs will take out all the corruption in America, if they resist making the wrongs right. WWIII will start up with the center for the Evil at the Zionist's games to attack others, and if others join in the war will be large and the issues of 2/3 of the population of the world meeting death with come into view.

America wed itself to the anti-Christ's values and the Beast of Babylon, and these things run against the American Constitutional values. China might well be pleased to see a peaceful return of American's freedoms and every American having a job, and the Govt getting back to being a good servant to others and not seeking to plunder the US for their own wealth and power. I'd say every true American would be pleased with this as well.

But the time is short, and the people too disorganized, so expect America's navys to be sunk and their large cities to be nuked into rubble so the point gets across. Such are the issues for the Evils of Money by those seeking not being a service to others, but only that of wealth and power over others and not sharing the wealth equitably.

Backing Israel's games to blow up Iran is a fools game for those that bought the anti-Christ's line of deceptions of humanity.


edit on 10-3-2012 by MagnumOpus because: Isreal's corruption of religion is the real problem, not Iran



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 07:59 AM
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reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


Jee-zuz Kee-rist! I've finally heard it ALL now - "God is a Totalitarian Socialist".

Tell ya what, I want to see if he votes for Gus Hall in this election - maybe I'll believe that God plays politics when I see that happen.

Does he wear an "I *heart* Marx, Lenin, and Engels" campaign button too?

I think I need a drink and a smoke, before my head explodes from all the political religion flying around here.



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 08:13 AM
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Originally posted by nenothtu

I thought this was more along the lines of world politics than along the lines of pulpit politics.



Well Bubba, When they handed out the talented and gifted DNA you stayed home, evidently. Like it or not the root of the Israel and Bomb Iran deal isn't really about just nukes. The corruption of religion makes their differences, and one is true and the other not, one is the aggressor and the other the defender. One is Satan and one is the Benevolent God.

There is a false god and a true God, and the designs for those worshiping the Babylon god version are considered the Great Evil, the anti-Christs, and Satan, and those on the higher side of the true God are the ones seen as servents to all mankind, seeking equitable wealth for all, and running a system that makes wealth held for the benefit of all and not just the few seeking to use immense wealth as reasons to control others and make eternal wars to keep that power of control.

The Russians and Putin see these issues and the differences are obvious to them with respect to the Zionist's games to bomb Iran. So, evidently Putin was standing in the Talented and Gifted line while you were not.

Others in America need to see and understand these issues run far deeper that just casting the Zionist's scare monger ideas that Iran is cooking up a nuke to have reason to start WWIII.


It is obvious that some of us here use our grey matter gifts from God to sort out the issues and condense them into the essential elements for understanding the issues, while yours is to poison your mind and body with a Drink and a Smoke. That usually speaks to ones that respected their Temple in place of poisoning it, subscribing to addictions, using depressants, being used for profits, and having lost the abilty for higher cognitive skills. Be sure to drink the special anti-christ water, so you get brittle white teeth and low brain function too.

Perhaps you might want to give up depressants like Drinking and Smoking so you don't become so easily exploited due to failing to care for the temple of your Brain Cells.


edit on 10-3-2012 by MagnumOpus because: Have another Poison Pill---shaken and not stirred with fluoride



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 09:35 AM
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reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


Is that you, Khameini?

I give up. You win. If I wanted to talk crazy-assed politico-religious cults, I'd be in the religion forum, or I'd just walk across the street and twist the Preacher's tail.

Go ahead and vote for your god (yes, I meant the one with the little "g" - you obviously haven't ever met the other one), lemme know how many electoral votes he gets, and when he starts passing secular laws and stuff and takes over for Caesar.

Have you donated to his campaign fund yet? You'd better - he needs that check to beat Obamaromney.

You've successfully changed my mind, though - now I believe we DO have to go to war with Iran, and the sooner the better, before this politico-religious claptrap expands any further. It was fine when it was just limited to some middle eastern countries, but when it starts getting exported and disturbing MY peace, it's time to lock and load.

Playing politics in God's name by trying to co-opt Him and draft him into the human political arena is a dangerous game. Good luck. You're gonna need it, and not from any mortal armies, either.

Of course, that will be between you and your god in the end... or between you and SOMEBODY'S God...

I'll not be responding any more unless something sane (or vaguely on topic) accidentally falls out of your mouth, or unless someone stumbles in and wants to discuss the thread topic...



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