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Let's Cut to the Chase - Iran Must Be Stopped

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posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 11:22 PM
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Originally posted by popsmayhem

Originally posted by milominderbinder
It's mind-boggling that large percentages of the population is getting ready to fall for this AGAIN.

I feel like David Cross being fooled anywhere from 1-10 times.
link:
www.youtube.com...


We will see who the naive fools
are... Hopefully THIS lesson
is not another 9/11.
When will people learn we are not dealing
with sane people, that we are dealing with
crazy religious zealots, that want to kill
people, innocent people..
Iran kills people who do not believe
in Islam.
Iran's Christian pastor execution looming
The Christian pastor sentenced to death in Iran last week for leaving Islam and converting to Christianity

Supporters fear Nadarkhani, a 34-year-old father of two who was arrested more than two years ago on charges of apostasy, fear he may be executed at any time, as death sentences in Iran can be carried out immediately or dragged out for years.

Others fear Nadarkhani will be used in broader political negotiations as Iran endures crippling sanctions and international pressure in response to its nuclear agenda and rogue discourse. The number of executions in Iran has increased significantly in the last month.

Read more: www.foxnews.com...

Anyone supporting Iran is supporting
executing people for their religion.


edit on 29-2-2012 by popsmayhem because: (no reason given)


You are aware that Texas routinely executes children and the mentally retarded, right? Does that mean that "anyone who supports the U.S. supports killing children and disabled people?"

Remember...the republican run senate is now perfectly OK with US military troops engaging in bestiality while enlisted. Since you feel that the U.S. is justified in losing yet another war...does this ALSO mean you "support" anal sex with barnyard animals?
Bestiality link:
cnsnews.com...

Yes...it's a tragedy that this poor priest is sentenced to death for converting away from Islam. In retrospect, it may not have been the wisest decision if one lives in a country who executes people for this very same thing. Nevertheless...it is very, very sad.

However...a single Iranian court decision on an issue unrelated to a "nuclear Iran" does not change the salient and material fact that the Iranian government has every LEGAL RIGHT to enrich uranium AS DEFINED BY THE UNITED NATIONS AND THE NUCLEAR NON-PROLIFERATION TREATY.

However...thank you for clarifying that your REAL objection to Iran does not have anything to do with nuclear weapons and is instead mostly about denying Iran the right to govern themselves within their own borders in a domestic capacity.

Lastly...September 11th was a tragedy. However, it was the warmongering, ignorant masses that turned it into an outright CATASTROPHE by "supporting" our international military temper-tantrum, running up massive deficits, and shredding the Constitution.

Just imagine if we would have put all that energy and the 1.5 trillion dollars into converting to electric vehicles and rebuilding towers.

But no...instead we have a black pit where the towers stood. A perfect metaphor to the ill-conceived, idiotic, bottomless morass we have gotten ourselves into in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Hell...why should we stop with Iran? Let's go ahead with a bunch of other simultaneous military actions which have also been proven to fail for thousands and thousands of years. Perhaps we could march infantry across Russia in the wintertime? Let's go re-invade Vietnam while we are at it.

And last of all...let me remind you. It really doesn't matter what kind of "opinions" anybody has on how good or bad Iran or if we ought to kill American kids to save Israeli kids.

The fact of the matter is WE HAVE NOT WON A MAJOR ARMED CONFLICT IN 67 YEARS...INCLUDING THE ONES WE ARE CURRENTLY ENGAGED IN. IF WE GO TO WAR...WE WILL LOSE. BADLY.

If for no other reason we should leave Iran alone just to save our own country. Israel be damned.




posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 03:41 AM
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Many folks have seen the movie about Elmer Gantry, but what few realize is just about the entire group of Christian Preachers in the US are basically Elmer Gantrys.

Every US preacher in the US is taught to make Jesus into Trinity, which makes his image as Nimrod and Tammuz, which is the ultimate of corruptions for the Essene and Islamic beliefs. The Sign for the Cross is that for Tammuz and the Christian Churches try to make that the sign for Jesus, when it is the sign of Tammuz. The Cross is the modern day version of the golden calf in the times of Moses.

It gets worse with Easter being a Pagan holiday assigned to Tammuz again, as it really doesn't have anything to do with Jesus' death.

Christmas, well that is Nimrod's Birthday, and almost the entirity of Christian religion is corrupted to the point there is not a drop of truth in the stories that they fabricated and presented from the times of Constantine.

It isn't any wonder the Islam folks call these religious shisters as Infidels, when all the US needs to truthfully call all these faked up stories on Jesus being changed into Pagan Sun Worhip of Babylon's Satanic cult.

One of the problems is these religious corruptions are used to slowly corrupt a county and take it over from within, so Islamic countries see this effort to put in place a packege of lies and deceit as a national security issue. And like most places, national security issues are taken seriously.

The Exception being the Christians are an extremely dumb group that does not know religious history and can be fed almost anything wrapped in the cloth of the church advertising it as piety.

Intelligent peoples need to see the Christian Church clearly for the religious corruption that it sponsors as truth, but is all made up games to install pagan Sun worship and Babylon Satan into organized religion.


The US has become exceedingly dumb, as they were dupped into the Federal Reserve and Federal Income Taxes to basically pay for WWI. That was so successful the Europeans also dragged the US into WWII. And the same organized tricksters seek to drag the US into the Iran issues and start WWIII. But, I dare say, some in the US are beginning to see through the corruption to trick the US into paying for wars with money and lives and also seeing the root of extreme evil in the Churches connected to false treachings on Jesus and the Essene and those false teachings share the Zionist Babylon Talmud.

The smart thing for the US, is to drop Satan on his head. Make Israel walk alone into Armageddon. Christians are waking up as to the extreme corruptions against the truth in their churches to the point that Elmer Gantry look pale in comparison.

There is little doubt that Islam rejects these false teachings and considers the problems one in the same as the Russians did with the issues of Pogroms against the Jews there for attempting to take over areas of the Russian Republic.

Real Christians in the US need to toss out most of the ministers and find some of the rare folks that studied the Essene, studied the Babylon Satan issues, and show people how not to be misled into following the old world Satan. imho

If Iran wants some more crooked preachers, worse than Elmer Gantry, then come get them out of the US so we can return to reason, truth, real religious histories, and peace between all countries.


It isn't any wonder the Catholic Church has turned into a bunch of sex abusers, as they reach into seeing the depths of the churches corruption against the truth, so they turn to the same debauchery as the times of Babylon and following Satanic Cult games.

All this corruption against the real story of Jesus was also told in Revelations, as they realized the power of the Babylon Talmud to corrupt the churches for power, money, and control to the point of trying to dominate countries political systems.

The Corruption of religion in the US needs to be seen as an Insurrection against the values of the US Constitutiuon and against the Freedom and Economic Prosperity of the US. The US should hold these corrupt church ministries as contempt against truth also.


In terms of Christianity, it can only be considered Judeo-Christian over the time frame of Noah to Solomon, as once the Babylon Captivity and Babylon Talmud started the Essene and Jesus part company with the Judeo religion, and essentially Christianty was formed over that division. Zionism should be kicked out of Christian religion and out of control over the US politics.
edit on 1-3-2012 by MagnumOpus because: Fire the Corrupted Ministry---an Organized Insurrection against the US Constitution



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 05:57 AM
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reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


Very nice analysis about religion, I always has seen the Church for what it is, nothing but a big private corporation that their sole reason of existence is to feed from the masses in the name of God, Jesus and the holy spirit, the more the merrier.

The more followers the more profits.

Not matter how I try to understand the purpose of the church the cons are greater than the pros.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 07:22 AM
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reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


Holy crap!

Do you think you could manage to translate a few of your monologues into English for us non-babble-onian English speakers?



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 07:32 AM
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reply to post by milominderbinder
 


Learn Arabic and keep towing their rope, and maybe they'll kill you last.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 09:06 AM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


The Internet has become a rather good education tool, so do spend some time reading on the history of Nimrod and Babylon and learn the mystery school issues.

Then spend some more time reading about the Essene sect of Judaism and what they believed, then you might become wiser and perhaps not fly the cross of Tammuz on your Avitar.

When you get done, you might find why Jesus and the Essene teachings were considered the more pious and that they were after correcting the errors of a serious wrong turn of Judaism.

It is literally the study of what benevolence / freedom is about and what satan / exploitation is about, in that process you become correctly informed of what is good and bad for America.

You'll also discover why the CIA motto is: "The Truth will Set You Free." Then America can't be used and abused via deceit and treachery into funding wars and killing their sons and daughters for Satan's causes.

The biggest fear of the exploiters is that all the world is awakening to the extremes of manupulation that they have had applied to their minds using faked religion, and like the times of Shem and Nimrod, those seeing the sight of such an evil will seek to cut it into little pieces.

Thus for those so cornered, the only way the religious crooks can attempt to win is to force WWIII and attempt to get the Christians to attack the Islams.

Then logically, the way to win the battle, having good triumpth over the evil, is to make sure at least one of the original evils, long ago pointed to by the Essene, gets exposed and destroyed.

So, Israel walks alone into Armageddon.

In the End, America gets Saved and discovers the real values of Jesus and the Essene, and most importantly stops getting dupped by dishonest religion Elmer Gantrys for all time. That will be a truly great thing.



edit on 1-3-2012 by MagnumOpus because: Saving America--Tossing out False Teachings of Religion in both Judaism and Christian areas



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by milominderbinder
You are aware that Texas routinely executes children and the mentally retarded, right? Does that mean that "anyone who supports the U.S. supports killing children and disabled people?"

You do realize that you are mistaken by making the false claims above right? Texas, like every other state in the union, are subject to the Supreme Court ruling on the matter, which is no, you cant execute those 2 groups. How about you provide sources to support your claim for all of us to read?

What I think you meant was Iran executing children.. The UN has condemned Iran multiple times now for those actions. Funny how its ignored though.



Originally posted by milominderbinder
Remember...the republican run senate is now perfectly OK with US military troops engaging in bestiality while enlisted. Since you feel that the U.S. is justified in losing yet another war...does this ALSO mean you "support" anal sex with barnyard animals?
Bestiality link:
cnsnews.com...

Failed to do the research didnt you...

H.R. 1540: National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012

The repeal of Article 125 was dropped from the final NDAA bill that Obama signed.


Originally posted by milominderbinder
Yes...it's a tragedy that this poor priest is sentenced to death for converting away from Islam. In retrospect, it may not have been the wisest decision if one lives in a country who executes people for this very same thing. Nevertheless...it is very, very sad.

That country has laws in place that prevent what is occurring to the Pastor. If Iran cant live up to its own domestic laws, then I doubt they can be trusted on their nuke program.


Originally posted by milominderbinder
However...a single Iranian court decision on an issue unrelated to a "nuclear Iran" does not change the salient and material fact that the Iranian government has every LEGAL RIGHT to enrich uranium AS DEFINED BY THE UNITED NATIONS AND THE NUCLEAR NON-PROLIFERATION TREATY.

And if you read the NPT requirements in addition to understanding the differences in levels of Uranium enrichment and the purpose, you would find Irans nuclear program has no need for enriched uranium at the 20% level and higher. Enrichment to 20% classifies it in the highly enriched uranium category. The only program that requires a higher enrichment level is for medical research. The issue with that is it only requires enrichment between 12% and 19.75%. Anything over the 19;75% can in fact be used in a nuclear bomb and will detonate. Irans current medical research / infrastructure does not require the higher enrichment level.

NPT
The other part you are missing is the word PEACEFUL. When you are done reading the NPT check out IAEA requirements for safety. Iran might as well pull out of the treaty now since they have violated a good chunk of the treaty.



Originally posted by milominderbinder
However...thank you for clarifying that your REAL objection to Iran does not have anything to do with nuclear weapons and is instead mostly about denying Iran the right to govern themselves within their own borders in a domestic capacity.

Thank you for clarifying that your REAL objections ignore the treaties Iran signed in addition to posting the wrong information about the NDAA and Article 125. While ignoring that the West has stated time and time again the issue they have is with enrichment, not the energy program.


Originally posted by milominderbinder
Lastly...September 11th was a tragedy. However, it was the warmongering, ignorant masses that turned it into an outright CATASTROPHE by "supporting" our international military temper-tantrum, running up massive deficits, and shredding the Constitution.

So you condone the mass murder when its committed by any entity / country / person towards the US? What part of the Constitution was shredded? Please be specific.



Originally posted by milominderbinder
Just imagine if we would have put all that energy and the 1.5 trillion dollars into converting to electric vehicles and rebuilding towers.

Naivety at its finest...



Originally posted by milominderbinder
But no...instead we have a black pit where the towers stood. A perfect metaphor to the ill-conceived, idiotic, bottomless morass we have gotten ourselves into in Iraq and Afghanistan.

How about we sue Al Queida then to recoup money from their actions?



Originally posted by milominderbinder
Hell...why should we stop with Iran? Let's go ahead with a bunch of other simultaneous military actions which have also been proven to fail for thousands and thousands of years. Perhaps we could march infantry across Russia in the wintertime? Let's go re-invade Vietnam while we are at it.

Again - enrichment is the issue.. Nice fear mongering though.



Originally posted by milominderbinder
And last of all...let me remind you. It really doesn't matter what kind of "opinions" anybody has on how good or bad Iran or if we ought to kill American kids to save Israeli kids.

The fact of the matter is WE HAVE NOT WON A MAJOR ARMED CONFLICT IN 67 YEARS...INCLUDING THE ONES WE ARE CURRENTLY ENGAGED IN. IF WE GO TO WAR...WE WILL LOSE. BADLY.

If for no other reason we should leave Iran alone just to save our own country. Israel be damned.


As far as leaving Iran alone thats just inviting disaster..
Secondly you seem to have ignored the first gulf war, Grenada, Panama, and Afghanistan (our goal was to nail Bin Laden, and we accomplished that.

As fas as your view that we will lose - again fear monger much? We would be on top in any conflict, either with Iran or Syria.

Anyways.. feel free to keep your blinders on..
edit on 1-3-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 10:36 AM
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Blinders?

25,000 Jews live in Iran. It's the largest Jewish population in the Middle East outside of Israel. Iranian Jews are not persecuted or abused by the state, in fact, they are protected under Iran's constitution. They are free to practice their religion and to vote in elections. They are not stopped and searched at checkpoints, they are not brutalized by an occupying army, and they are not herded into a densely-populated penal colony (Gaza) where they are deprived of the basic means of survival. Iranian Jews live in dignity and enjoy the benefits of citizenship.

Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is demonized in the western media. He is called an anti-Semite and the "new Hitler". But if those claims are true, then why did the majority of Iran's Jews vote for Ahmadinejad in recent presidential elections? Could it be that most of what we know about Ahmadinejad is just baseless rumor and propaganda?

www.countercurrents.org...



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 10:56 AM
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Originally posted by frazzle
Blinders?

25,000 Jews live in Iran. It's the largest Jewish population in the Middle East outside of Israel. Iranian Jews are not persecuted or abused by the state, in fact, they are protected under Iran's constitution. They are free to practice their religion and to vote in elections. They are not stopped and searched at checkpoints, they are not brutalized by an occupying army, and they are not herded into a densely-populated penal colony (Gaza) where they are deprived of the basic means of survival. Iranian Jews live in dignity and enjoy the benefits of citizenship.

The same law that Iran ignored by charging and sentencing the Pastor to death for not being Muslim? Persian Jews, as they are called, are not Jewish people who moved to Iran. There religious leader (Jewish) was executed by firing squad after the 1979 revolution.


Originally posted by frazzle
Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is demonized in the western media. He is called an anti-Semite and the "new Hitler". But if those claims are true, then why did the majority of Iran's Jews vote for Ahmadinejad in recent presidential elections? Could it be that most of what we know about Ahmadinejad is just baseless rumor and propaganda?

www.countercurrents.org...



The same reason Saddam Hussein always seemed to capture 99.6% of the vote in their elections back in the day.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 11:29 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 



The same law that Iran ignored by charging and sentencing the Pastor to death for not being Muslim? Persian Jews, as they are called, are not Jewish people who moved to Iran. There religious leader (Jewish) was executed by firing squad after the 1979 revolution.


Ya think there might be more to this story than we've been told?

Israel has been trying to bribe Iraninan Jews to emigrate to Israel since the revolution .... most of the ones who did leave moved to the US instead of their alleged "homeland".

www.guardian.co.uk...

And when it comes to hijacked elections, Americans don't have a whole lot of room to gloat.


edit on 1-3-2012 by frazzle because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by frazzle
Ya think there might be more to this story than we've been told?

Based on Irans actions in the past im going with no.


Originally posted by frazzle
Israel has been trying to bribe Iraninan Jews to emigrate to Israel since the revolution .... most of the ones who did leave moved to the US instead of their alleged "homeland".

www.guardian.co.uk...

ok...?


Originally posted by frazzle

And when it comes to hijacked elections, Americans don't have a whole lot of room to gloat.


edit on 1-3-2012 by frazzle because: (no reason given)

Not sure what this comment means.. Care to be more specific?



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by frazzle
Ya think there might be more to this story than we've been told?

Based on Irans actions in the past im going with no.


Originally posted by frazzle
Israel has been trying to bribe Iraninan Jews to emigrate to Israel since the revolution .... most of the ones who did leave moved to the US instead of their alleged "homeland".

www.guardian.co.uk...

ok...?


Originally posted by frazzle

And when it comes to hijacked elections, Americans don't have a whole lot of room to gloat.


edit on 1-3-2012 by frazzle because: (no reason given)

Not sure what this comment means.. Care to be more specific?


Which past actions of Iran? Care to be more specific? Do you know more about Iran than what Fox tells you?

If you are so clueless about American election fraud it would be amazing if you knew anything at all about Iraq's or Iran's elections. Even Stalin wasn't that ignorant; (paraphrasing) "it isn't who votes that counts, its who counts the votes."



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by nenothtu
reply to post by milominderbinder
 


Learn Arabic and keep towing their rope, and maybe they'll kill you last.



...says the guy whose avatar is a stylized Hospitaller.

You are aware that the REAL Hospitaller's believed that a divinely inspired and prophetic goose (Yes...a goose. That's not a typo) was responsible for leading the peasant rabble and Peter the Hermit to Constantinople, correct?
Dead serious. The first Crusade started in Flanders, France when the peasants "jumped the gun" and started following The Holy Goose to their eternal salvation ahead of Pope Urban II's organized military campaign.

Furthermore...you are aware that those very same Hospitallers were responsible for the beheading of hundreds of thousands of unarmed women, children, and the elderly in the name of their God and the aforementioned Divine Goose...correct?

Sorry bud...but you sort of lose any type of real credibility on all things Middle East when you show up dressed in a crusading knights halloween costume.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 01:10 PM
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Originally posted by frazzle
Blinders?

25,000 Jews live in Iran. It's the largest Jewish population in the Middle East outside of Israel. Iranian Jews are not persecuted or abused by the state, in fact, they are protected under Iran's constitution. They are free to practice their religion and to vote in elections. They are not stopped and searched at checkpoints, they are not brutalized by an occupying army, and they are not herded into a densely-populated penal colony (Gaza) where they are deprived of the basic means of survival. Iranian Jews live in dignity and enjoy the benefits of citizenship.

Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is demonized in the western media. He is called an anti-Semite and the "new Hitler". But if those claims are true, then why did the majority of Iran's Jews vote for Ahmadinejad in recent presidential elections? Could it be that most of what we know about Ahmadinejad is just baseless rumor and propaganda?

www.countercurrents.org...


Yeah...but now you are thinking coherently and actually looking for information instead of just regurgitating whatever the TV instructs you to say and think.

If it can't be boiled down to highly inaccurate, panic-fueled soundbites which are available for sale to the highest corporate bidders in an effort deceive the public...well...then it just ain't good 'ol American "news". Hyuck!!



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 01:22 PM
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You want to continu spreading lies OP ??
and twist the truth


By supporting an attack on Iran
You are has much war criminal then the ones launching bomb on innocent Iranians
People who flaggued this thread included ..
Its astonishing how so many member are completely delusional or have been brain washed so fast

You have left me no choice but to retwist your title into the real truth

Let's Cut to the Chase - Israel Must Be Stopped

Dont get me wrong ..
i dont wish anyone bombing the crap out of Israel
it will be a war crimes and i will condemn it the same way i would condemn Iran being bombed

Now i see things very clear .. ISREAL WANTS TO BOMB THE CRAP OUT OF IRAN
God will all punish the ones supporting this war crimes
edit on 3/1/2012 by Ben81 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by milominderbinder
 



actually the first crusade, that is, Christian conquest of Muslim land was in Spain. It was a re-conquest of Spain under the rule of the moors. It is not accepted far and wide as a crusade since it did not penetrate beyond the original Christian land.

It is noteworthy that this event, revolt, was the inspiration for many others after the fact sine the Spanish Christians were terribly outnumbered and under supplied. It originated in the north under Don Pelayo. Its starting point was a mountain valley where a cathedral would later be built in honor of the virgin Covadonga that appeared to Don Pelayo and his followers. She instructed them to begin the revolt and with the stones of the mountain they perched themselves upon the summits and as the moors entered the valley, they threw all the stones they could and defeated them.

There is a saying that Pelayo said to the Moor commander upon their retreat which is
: as long as there are rocks and stones upon this earth, there will be the will to throw them.


edit on 1-3-2012 by BIHOTZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


XCATHDRA!!!!

Sources you say?? NO PROBLEM!!!

Texas Executes Mentally Retarded 2009: www.nytimes.com...
List of 12 juvenile offenders executed in Texas: www.deathpenaltyinfo.org...

Note: In fairness Texas only convicts and sentences children to death. Thus far they have had the decency to allow them to rot on death row until they are over the age of majority before actually flipping the switch. It's important to be accurate. And yes...of course Iran also executes children. My point is not to say that Iran is "nice place"...only that it isn't as different from Texas as we might think it is and the United States has no business condemning Iran's barbarity until it corrects it's own barbarity.

Regarding article 125 of the NDAA: I absolutely did my research. Read the post. I stated that the SENATE was OK with our troops in uniform raping animals...presumably of the farmland or woodland varieties. This is a true statement. The Senate passed that measure. It was LATER dropped after it got hung up in the rest of the legislative process...however the Senate saw no problem with this on the first go around. I understand how one could get confused...but that is just exactly how it all went down.

Regarding the "laws in place to prevent the pastor execution" comment: Yes...indeed I am sure they do. Just your aforementioned Supreme Court ruling from 2005 was not able to prevent an individual with an IQ of 68 from being executed in Texas in 2009. Similarly...the United States used to also have a Constitution and a Bill of Rights...remember? Amerikaanistan isn't a whole lot less fascist than Iran these days.

Regarding Iran's right to conduct medical research within it's own borders: I'm glad you feel comfortable with your knowledge of nuclear medicine to point blankly state that Iran "has no reason" to conduct the same medical research and treatments that we have been enjoying in this country for half a century. Besides.... the last thing in this whole world that scares me is Iran having a nuclear weapon. I think it might actually make us less likely to invade the Middle East in general and if our politicians cannot be trusted to not whore the military out to the oil companies...then I suppose this would be another way to bring stability and peace to the region.

Regarding enrichment: Yes...the Iranians are enriching uranium. They have the right to do so. Under 20% for "any purpose" and over 20% for peaceful purposes. So what's the problem? Also...please see above. The Senate was A-OK with a little bestiality action in the military on the first go-around.

Regarding 9-11: WHY WOULD YOU THINK I "CONDONE" THE ATTACKS?!? I point-blank said they were a tragedy? Just because the tragedy was turned a an empire-crippling CATASTROPHE by a 1.5 trillion dollar, 11 yr+, hopeless morass of an absolutely unwinnable war DOES NOT MEAN THAT I "CONDONE" THE ATTACKS. However...I'm sorry but a handful of thugs killing 3,500 of our citizens does not justify our killing of a half-million non-involved Middle Eastern citizens. Two wrongs don't make a right. Also...THE BEST WAY TO FIGHT A WAR IN THE MIDDLE EAST IS TO MAKE OIL IRRELEVANT. Then we can let those lunatics do whatever they want to do in the desert..right? We won't have to deal with them.

Regarding getting rid of oil: Please explain why we need and how 1.5 Trillion dollars would not have been enough to do it over 10 yrs? Virtually every vehicle on the road that was made from 2000 or so onwards can be converted to either ethanol or biodiesel for about $400 a piece...less with economies of scale involved. I've done it personally on two diesel vehicles. It's not hard.

"Suing al Queda": This is all kinds of stupid. Can you sue the mafia? No...of course not. They are by definition an illegal entity. You can sue individuals. You can sue front-businesses. But there is no bank account anywhere in this world where the depository is listed as "Al Queda". Get real. However...yeah...let's go ahead and seize some Saudi assets. I'm cool with that.

Incompetent Military: Iraq #1 was a failure. We blew a lot of stuff up...but we left Saddam in power when we had just cause AND international support to get him out. Thus, we had to turn around and do so later at great expense and under false pretenses. Afghanistan was never about "getting Bin Laden". If it was...we would already be out of there, right? Grenada & Panama? I guess I don't consider those major armed conflicts. I also don't consider Bosnia a major armed conflict. Military actions? Certainly. But there is a big difference between the Korean war and what we did in Panama.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by BIHOTZ
reply to post by milominderbinder
 



actually the first crusade, that is, Christian conquest of Muslim land was in Spain. It was a re-conquest of Spain under the rule of the moors. It is not accepted far and wide as a crusade since it did not penetrate beyond the original Christian land.

It is noteworthy that this event, revolt, was the inspiration for many others after the fact sine the Spanish Christians were terribly outnumbered and under supplied. It originated in the north under Don Pelayo. Its starting point was a mountain valley where a cathedral would later be built in honor of the virgin Covadonga that appeared to Don Pelayo and his followers. She instructed them to begin the revolt and with the stones of the mountain they perched themselves upon the summits and as the moors entered the valley, they threw all the stones they could and defeated them.

There is a saying that Pelayo said to the Moor commander upon their retreat which is
: as long as there are rocks and stones upon this earth, there will be the will to throw them.


edit on 1-3-2012 by BIHOTZ because: (no reason given)


Yeah...I suppose you could argue that. I'm pretty sure a whole lot of Pope Urban II's "inspiration" came from the first early successes in Spain.

I was just going off of the standard-issue time references that historians typically use. It's sort of like trying to decide specifically when the Renaissance started. Dates vary...but pretty much everybody agrees that it was definitely AFTER the worst of the plague ripped through Europe and that by the time De Medici's were taking quotes on the bronze doors in Florence it was in full swing.

The big hysteria and the idea going to Jerusalem = Ticket to heaven didn't start up until Urban's call to crusade in 1096 (if memory serves...I might be off by a year or two on the date...just going by memory).

Your point is taken though. Actually...the idea that The Crusades REALLY started with The Reconquista would make an excellent doctoral thesis someday.

Thanks for the idea. Hmmmm...I need to ponder for a while.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 03:16 PM
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Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by frazzle

Yeah...but now you are thinking coherently and actually looking for information instead of just regurgitating whatever the TV instructs you to say and think.

If it can't be boiled down to highly inaccurate, panic-fueled soundbites which are available for sale to the highest corporate bidders in an effort deceive the public...well...then it just ain't good 'ol American "news". Hyuck!!



Exactly right! The very worst thing people can do to themselves is to unquestioningly accept lies.

Question everything, especially when it comes from some hot teleprompter reading babe claiming to have authoritative knowledge of anything.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 03:21 PM
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So you are incapable of listing election fraud occurrences to support your claim... ok

Clueless? Not really no.

Is it too much to ask that you and the others, when making claims, support those claims with.. ohh.. I dont know... facts and links to sources? You and a few others are becoming very good at answering a question with a question.

When you decide to answer let me know.



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