Let's Cut to the Chase - Iran Must Be Stopped

reply to post by Vitchilo


So first you call me a cowardly chicken hawk and say my thread is meaningless unless I enlist in the military:

Let's cut to the chase, your thread is meaningless until you go enlist in the military.

Sending people to die for you is the most cowardly thing someone can do...

Just saying... I'm sick of the chicken hawks...

Then when I tell you I’m a veteran you say I’m stupid for enlisting.

Going in the military is stupid IMO. The military wages war for the banksters.

War is the failure of humanity. I refuse to be part of it.

You’re ready to slap me either way! You are a piece of work, Sir. Being called names and having my service denigrated by an Iranian apologist like you means NOTHING to me, Sir!

reply to post by charles1952


Thanks charles1952, I enjoy your perspective as well, if you are addressing me or not as it always gives me something new to consider. I hope I can clear my thoughts up a bit for you.

It seems you are saying that whether or not Iran gives up trying to get nuclear weapons, the US will attack.

Not necessarily, only that countries that have abandoned their nuclear programs in the past, at the wish of the USA have ended up being attacked anyhow. I believe Iran realizes this and takes it seriously. Libya is the first example I gave, Iraq would be another.

And that knowing the US will attack, the only reasonable thing they can do is to get a nuclear weapon of their own. (So that they could do what? Bomb D.C.?)

I think having a nuclear weapon and using a nuclear weapon are two very, very, very different things. I believe they only want a nuclear weapon, not to use it but rather have it as a deterrence to being attacked. India has nuclear weapons as a deterrent to Pakistan invading and vice versa. I believe India and Pakistan would be at war with each other if not for the fact that each has a deterrent against the other. Knowing that a country can attack you with a nuclear weapon makes you think twice about attacking them.

My example would be North Korea, sure they have China as an ally (so does Iran) but they act just as crazy if not more crazy than Iran. Nobody is seriously considering invading them though, I think, because they have a Nuclear weapon. Countries don't get Nuclear weapons so they can use them, they get them as a deterrent to being attacked. Just my opinion.

You know, that makes a massive bombing run look more attractive to some. There would be no messy, time-consuming invasion, just a lot of holes where the country used to be.

I agree with you on that, in the context from your post.

I just don't see Iran as a threat to the USA or other countries outside of the region. I don't really see them as a threat period though I would have no problem if another country in the Middle East saw them as such and decided to do something about it. I just don't think any countries in the Middle East need the USA's help defending themselves. Nor have I heard a single country from the region express that they want it.

Personally I detest nuclear weapons and I feel that USA should set a good example and end our nuclear program and dismantle our nuclear arsenal before we decide we want to be the judge and jury to who can have such horrible devices.

I kinda see a nuclear Iran as like a Lion at the zoo. The Lion isn't dangerous until you decide to get in the cage with it.

Hope that clears things up for you. Always a pleasure

reply to post by seabag


IMO, what you fail to see is that the war-talk and propaganda that Iran produces is the same thing the US anti-Iran crowd is saying!

US says death to Iran....Iran says death to the Zionists.

US imposes sanctions on the Iranian people...Iran threatens to close the strait of Hormuz and choke-down the oil supply for the world's people!

The US uses radical Christian fundamentalism as justification of war......Iran used radical Islamic fundamentalism as justification against the Christian nations who want to fight.

See the pattern here? Your war-mongering is no better than those in the Middle East that cry "death to the West", when people in the US are crying "death to Iran".

reply to post by seabag


The world is not divided into either black or white, my friend. There are many shades in between. Nobody wants to see our economy implode, but it will happen, thanks to our idiotic, corrupt leadership and our being screwed over by the federal reserve. Anybody who understands basic mathematics can see that we are financially doomed.

And why is it that anybody in this country who doesn't automatically scream for Death To Iran is a pro-Iranian? You make a great deal of assumptions. I am not pro-Iranian, but neither do I wish to have our country be involved in yet another war started on lies and assumptions, egged on by Israel. Because of Israel's involvement in our government, and the way they play us like fools, I am becoming definitely anti-Israel. Does that mean I hate Jews? No. Does that mean I want Israel to be blown off the map? No.

BTW, our foreign policy as it stands currently SUCKS. Absolutely, unequivocally, and without a doubt. Does that mean that I am anti-American? No. I can hate our policies and love our country.

Simplistic thinking is what has gotten us into our current screwed-up mess. Simplistic thinking will ensure there will be nothing left for our children except rubble.

reply to post by seabag

Then when I tell you I’m a veteran you say I’m stupid for enlisting.

Well I'm saying the government treats troops like trash and don't care about them.

So considering that, it would be stupid to put yourself in harms way.

It's like saying if you put yourself in front of a truck, it's gonna kill ya... you know it, but eh what the hell, you'll do it anyways... isn't that stupid?

I'm not bashing the troops. I'm just saying, after all the facts are known to you, you still join the military... Breathing DU? You like it apparently. Fighting illegal wars? You like it apparently. Having experimental vaccines tested on you? You like it apparently.

I have an uncle in the Canadian army... at least he's not stupid enough to go fight in Afghanistan and has always refused to do so.

If you go in the army to get the training, good for you. If you go in the army to go fight illegal wars, and you know they are illegal wars, well that's just stupid to me.

But eh, do whatever you want, you're free after all.

If your enemy is not using a military to threatent to attack you, why join up? Launch your own private attack on Iranian leaders. Hide a gun in your dress and go shoot them. If you want to protect Israel, get off the computer and go on a killing spree. I would like to urge everyone to go on a killing spree and ignore diplomacy. Kill yoursleves all away. Do it over there. There, I cut to the chase.

Originally posted by Danbones
reply to post by seabag

 

. I don’t think

you said it

who appointed you to speak for Iran SEABAG??
and there is a BIG question about Iran's motives ..its always other people saying what they are going to do
and the translations always show they aren't threatening anything except self defence
while the US and Israel are already commiting murder on them

edit on 23-2-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

I wasn’t speaking for Iran I was speaking for myself, hence my use of the letter “I”. You quote me out of context to make a joke and gets stars…congrats!

Iranian leaders are quite capable of speaking for themselves and making their intentions known as they have done many times.

OK guys I freely admit to serving in the I.D.F. as a non jew and trained in rescue. I am not a war monger, in fact the reason I joined was the chance to save lives, not destroy them. Arab , jew , christian, grey men from space, who cares ? As long as you made a difference. However this regime is attempting to apply sharia law in England and this by my way of thinking is UNACCEPTABLE, we accept immirgrants and even give them state benefits, hell I work 60 hours a week and get less, but I do have work ethics and personal pride. I lived through the cold war and remember having nuclear attack drills at school. (not sure the formica table was as sturdy as I was led to believe) . Does Iran need a reality check ? Yes, did the world condemn Israel when they bombed Iraqi nuclear facilities ? Yes. Did the world thank them for having the balls to do so behind closed doors ? Yes. Should history repeat itself ? Yes . BUT the strike must be clinical, clean and avoid innocents as much as possible. All those that hate the regime should be allowed to leave, and be replaced by all those that enjoy the benefits of Britain whilst planning to destroy us, what a proud but stupid country we are !

the source of anti iran and anti muslim propoganda is memri dot org.
Go visit. check out the sponsors. there is Bibi, Ehud, every zionist neocon you can imagine.

I will bet the links provided at the beginning of this thread came from memri.
Creating enemies is standard procedure for those that attack by deception,
make an enemy look really bad, then get the US to attack in order to save Israel from the new holocaust of muslim nukes.
Simple, slick and ugly. but it has worked for Israel since the Lavon affair.

reply to post by darkstar57


So let me get this straight...

Slamming sources that you disagree with or consider biased is an excuse to discredit the content or premise of the OP even when the those sources WEREN'T EVEN USED in this thread?? 

Man...ATS is getting tough!!

The most imporatnt thing for "us" to do is not to lose our heads.

It would be nice if some ninja turtle seal team could bring Iran back to their nuclear square one overnight. But then it will be a matter of time before everything will be as it is now.

A permanent solution must come from within Iran. From what I understand there is a majority of people who recognise the absurdity of what the Iranian leaders do and want. This majority want peace, stabillity and an other day to look forward to.

reply to post by zatara

The most imporatnt thing for "us" to do is not to lose our heads.

Is taking action 'losing our heads' in your opinion? 

It would be nice if some ninja turtle seal team could bring Iran back to their nuclear square one overnight. But then it will be a matter of time before everything will be as it is now.

I believe we've been working on that for a decade...it has only slowed Iran down.  

A permanent solution must come from within Iran. From what I understand there is a majority of people who recognise the absurdity of what the Iranian leaders do and want. This majority want peace, stabillity and an other day to look forward to.

That would be terrific and I think you're right. I believe Obama should have helped these people when they asked. However, we are near the point of no return. No country that has acquired nuclear weapons has ever abandoned them. Iran surely won't be the first. 

Thanks for the reply. 

reply to post by seabag

PERSIA DELENDA EST!!!
-seabag-

i take it you're the reincarnation of cato, another genocidal, warmongering fanatic

those pesky carthaginians were cutting into his profits too.

the more things change...

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by darkstar57

 

So let me get this straight...

Slamming sources that you disagree with or consider biased is an excuse to discredit the content or premise of the OP even when the those sources WEREN'T EVEN USED in this thread?? 

Man...ATS is getting tough!!

actually there's a legal term:

"fruit of the poisoned tree"

if your sources are financed by zionist psychopaths...

Pat Buchanan: “300 nukes in Israel yet Iran a threat?”

I don't always see eye to eye with Pat Buhanan, but this interview never the less gave a interesting view point.



Description of video:

Islamic wars have brought questionable benefit to the US over the last 20 years, former US presidential advisor Pat Buchanan, author of Suicide of a Superpower, shared with RT. ­A new war in the Middle East will be a disaster for the US and for the world economy, he says. “I opposed the Desert Storm operation in 1991 cleaning Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait because, I said, ‘This would only be the first Arab-American war.’” Looking at the number of conflicts in the Islam world that America is taking part in now, one cannot but admit that Buchanan was right 20 years ago. “You cannot replicate the Middle West in the Middle East,” Pat Buchanan concluded. From the time of the Cold War the US has military bases all over the world. Today, running a budget deficit of 10 per cent of its GDP, America simply cannot afford to continue “to carry this enormous burden, defending 40 or 50 countries around the world,” Buchanan says, “We have to bring troops home.” Getting rid of these bases essentially means dismantling the American Empire to help the US survive beyond 2025. America’s crusade under the banner of ending tyranny in the world is “utterly utopian”.

www.deathrattlesports.com...

The recent firing of Pat Buchanan by the politically correct elite who pressured the mainstream MSNBC network is a shining example on top of the hill of dog poo. Nothing more, nothing less.

As disagreeable as Pat Buchanan has been throughout his life, he has oddly become a voice of reason as the elder statesman on an otherwise petty array of talking points.

Source & rest of article: seeker401.wordpress.com...

I'm still uneasy about the whole thing and just bringing more information to the table at this point.

There is a possibility that the Government of Israel are master manipulators (never say all the people, because there is a difference between the common citizen and his/her government).

And as of yet, there has only been one country to have used weapons of mass destruction, TWICE.

Ask the descendants of the 700,000 people who died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

The American Government has been best bedfellows with Israel for as long as I can remember and I don't trust either Government further than I can spit.

The men/women in power are, for the most part, greedy psychopaths with only their own best interests at heart.

If the common man / woman does not begin to clean our governmental houses of these psychopaths, the end may be closer than you think.

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by darkstar57

 

So let me get this straight...

Slamming sources that you disagree with or consider biased is an excuse to discredit the content or premise of the OP even when the those sources WEREN'T EVEN USED in this thread?? 

Man...ATS is getting tough!!

actually there's a legal term:

"fruit of the poisoned tree"

if your sources are financed by zionist psychopaths...

There is a term for bashing the OP for a source he didn't even use. That term is LIAR!

I didn't use memri as a source. Nice try though.

reply to post by seabag



G'day me ol' flower!

Even when I disagree with you I find your threads thought provoking. At least you create discussions.
I have nothing to offer regarding the thread. I need to chew this over rather than just compose a knee-jerk response.

Take care.
Be safe.
Live, love and laugh. It would be an insult to our 'freedoms' if we didn't!

reply to post by seabag


To engage Iran could mean WW3, we should have nothing to do with Israel or their crazy zionist run government.

dbl

dbl