Let's Cut to the Chase - Iran Must Be Stopped

reply to post by ALF88
Thank you for this - and even Barak said the other week that the situation is "certainly not urgent".

I pray that sanity and cooler heads may prevail, we rush too much and jump into things that are oh so terrible for us, and so very unnecessary as we tend to find after the fact. Caution and patience are not given their due chance, even though they do not mean a blind eye and enabling.

Let the intelligence agencies work, and stop causing problems. That's all I ask.

reply to post by Praetorius

I do believe sageofmonticello has spoken wisely.

You say we must stop Iran and prevent them from getting nukes & whatever else they may want to do - and I'll agree, insofar as I don't want them to do anything stupid.

But how do we stop them, even if intent of action is confirmed (and not just desire expressed)? By embroiling ourselves in yet another war, which we can by no means afford due to:
- our existing over-extension (also including elevated troop suicide levels and other related strains),
- our already being trillions of dollars in debt with a teetering economy,
- the seemingly-obvious results as results to fuel prices (affecting us on several levels here at home)
- the obvious-to-me fact that such will almost assuredly not work out for us as well as some of our other endeavors have, given their differences in geography, size, and military capacity,
- their apparent near-alliance with & implied protection from Russia and China?

This argument that the US doesn’t have money for defense (or offense) is a non-starter; that’s inaccurate. Also, I said I support Israel striking Iran…If they need US assistance in a supportive roll I don’t see what the problem is.

What of the resultant consequences from the Islamic world itself? If you think the US and Israel are hated targets now, what will the amplification of such action result in, especially after adding on the additional strain to what I've already mentioned above?

It doesn’t matter what the US or Israel do, they will be hated regardless. I’m not of the belief that all of the hatred for Israel and the US is a result of our actions. These fanatics just want to be superpowers and they view US as an enemy. That won’t change if we appease them; Obama has proven that.

Incidentally, could you clarify for me why Russia, China, and the rest of the world don't seem quite so crazed with fear on this matter as we do? Is it perhaps that their perspective outside the US enables them to see our history and its current results with more clear eyes than we do, as well as having a clearer view of the likely consequences of our actions on a global scale?

They have a strategic alliance with Iran. They don’t want to see their oil supply disrupted and they wouldn’t be upset if America was attacked either.

And despite the statements and blustering from Iran, I have yet to see an accounting for the testimony of the actual intelligence and oversight agencies themselves, as we've discussed elsewhere. Yes, we know Iran (and most of the arab/muslim world in general) hates the political nation of Israel, but that doesn't change the fact that the experts I'm aware of, at least, continue to say Iran as a total political entity IS acting rationally and will likely continue to do so, is mainly seeking deterrent capacity as per North Korea's example if they ARE seeking nukes - which SECDEF, NIEs, IAEA and Israeli intelligence community are not even willing to commit to claiming they are, and is not en existential threat to Israel anyway.

Some “experts” support the global warming theory too. So what? Why is it so hard to take Iranian leaders at their own words? Why do so many grasp at straws to defend Iranian leaders who openly call for wiping people off the face of the earth for religious beliefs?

You speak of them thumbing their noses at us, but it seems like every week I see a new news article discussing Iran's renewed calls for talks and inspections, as well as the statement yesterday by Khomeini that Iran is not now and never will pursue nuclear weapons (which to me seems honest as there is no reason he should be under the mistaken impression our politicians - in spite of their intelligence sources - here and in Israel will believe it anyway).

Iranian leaders aren’t stupid. They have played on Obama’s weakness to the fullest and bought themselves a lot of time. I don’t blame them for doing that…it seems logical. If you’re enemy is going to turn his back then you should take advantage!

And as mentioned - Iran is encircled by US military assets and allies. If they choose to make the first move, or any noticeable overtures at such, I doubt Russia and China would seem so protective, and Iran likely wouldn't last long against likely responses from Israel and ourselves - if they made ANY nuclear moves, I don't doubt we'd see the sea of glass so many have spoken of in short order, and much less messy on our part than trying to go in à la Iraq/Afghanistan.

Removing the threat before it turns into a nuclear tit-for-tat makes more sense, does it not? Besides, if Iran closed the Strait of Hormuz as they’ve threatened to do many economies would suffer severe damage. If they’re willing to do that now, without nuclear weapons, how bold would they be WITH nuclear weapons.

1 - First of all, even if they want to take out israel, it does not matter to the common american nor do most americans care if israel was wiped out. The people who care are the zionists, military industrial complex war profiteers

2 - Who will pay for this war? After the war there is lots of PTSD, medical burden, it is not just the cost of one bullet, it is the entire economic fallout that occurs. I bet the wounded costs a lot more to take care of than a dead soldier. So while people think oh, not so many US troops died, it is the WOUNDED that take the highest economic burden on the society

3 - There is no evidence that Iran is developing nukes

4 - Even if they were to develop nukes (for which there is no evidence), they would be rightly justified because they are being threatened by Israel and the USA on a daily basis as well as by US bases placement.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Let's cut to the chase, your thread is meaningless until you go enlist in the military.

Sending people to die for you is the most cowardly thing someone can do...

Just saying... I'm sick of the chicken hawks...

Chicken Hawk?

You make assumptions!

I have served…8 years active duty….have you served?

reply to post by sheepslayer247


Thank you, Sheepslayer! That is EXACTLY what I wanted to say. This whole "pre-emptive strike" mentality, based on what we ASSUME another country is thinking, is complete and utter insanity. Killing tens of thousands of innocent people so we can feel safe? Why don't we just eliminate every country that can possibly even think of doing us harm? Why not just blow up the whole planet and get rid of all the threats?

Just who is the nutter on this global stage???

So Iran hates Israel. That is not my problem, nor the problem of our military, nor the problem of my children who are in the military and stand to lose their lives over this craziness. Does Israel stand up and threaten every nation who hates us? Didn't think so.

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Let's cut to the chase, your thread is meaningless until you go enlist in the military.

Sending people to die for you is the most cowardly thing someone can do...

Just saying... I'm sick of the chicken hawks...

Chicken Hawk?

You make assumptions!

I have served…8 years active duty….have you served?

edit on 23-2-2012 by seabag because: (no reason given)

And, did you enjoy those 8 years? Did you ever wonder why you were asked to do the things you may have done. Would you re-enlist to wage war on Iran? If not, then your Op is weak at best.

Des

reply to post by seabag


Then which country are you fighting for? Israel or the USA? If you are putting Israel's interest over America...hmm you know the word

reply to post by seabag


really, just wow

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
1 - First of all, even if they want to take out israel, it does not matter to the common american nor do most americans care if israel was wiped out. The people who care are the zionists, military industrial complex war profiteers

2 - Who will pay for this war? After the war there is lots of PTSD, medical burden, it is not just the cost of one bullet, it is the entire economic fallout that occurs. I bet the wounded costs a lot more to take care of than a dead soldier. So while people think oh, not so many US troops died, it is the WOUNDED that take the highest economic burden on the society

3 - There is no evidence that Iran is developing nukes

4 - Even if they were to develop nukes (for which there is no evidence), they would be rightly justified because they are being threatened by Israel and the USA on a daily basis as well as by US bases placement.

Ya, Iran couldn’t touch America!

The commander of the Revolutionary Guards, Brig. Gen. Seyyed Mehdi Farahi, stated in August that the Safir missile, which is capable of transporting a satellite into space, can easily be launched parallel to the earth’s orbit, which will transform it into an intercontinental ballistic missile. Western analysts didn’t believe this would happen until 2015. Historically, orbiting a satellite is the criterion for crediting a nation with ICBM capability.

And of course they have no reason to even if they could.

Forghani details the Islamic duty of jihad as laid out in the Quran for the sake of Allah and states that “primary jihad,” according to some Shiite jurists, can only occur when the Hidden Imam, the Shiites’ 12th Imam Mahdi, returns. Shiites believe Mahdi’’s return will usher in Armageddon.

And a pre-emptive strike is a strategy only utilized by western forces.

In order to attack Iran, the article says, Israel needs the approval and assistance of America, and under the current passive climate in the United States, the opportunity must not be lost to wipe out Israel before it attacks Iran. Under this pre-emptive defensive doctrine, several Ground Zero points of Israel must be destroyed and its people annihilated. Forghani cites the last census by the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics that shows Israel has a population of 7.5 million citizens of which a majority of 5.7 million are Jewish. Then it breaks down the districts with the highest concentration of Jewish people, indicating that three cities, Tel Aviv, Jerusalem and Haifa, contain over 60 percent of the Jewish population that Iran could target with its Shahab 3 ballistic missiles, killing all its inhabitants.

link

reply to post by seabag

I have served…8 years active duty….have you served?

Going in the military is stupid IMO. The military wages war for the banksters.

War is the failure of humanity. I refuse to be part of it.

The government thinks you're dumb animals and hate your guts. Test vaccines on you and make you breathe DU. So yeah let's enlist!

If everyone refused to enlist there would be no wars.

I'm surprised at the number of people saying the Opening Poster should shut up, has no right to talk, the thread should be closed. It makes me feel as if I'm in Iran already.

War has been discussed for months in nation's capitols, by leaders, think tanks, analysts, and newspapers. To say it is a completely impossible idea is, at best, wishful thinking.

The one common theme to these posts is "Your plan is terrible, it's all your fault, and we have no solution that has ever shown any success, but we'll keep yelling at you anyway. Oh, and you're a doo-doo head."

What is it about this subject that prevents it from being discussed?

to actually have a the holocaust you'll have to kill 6million jews for real
which is about the total of all the jews in israel AND Iran

hmmmmm
that would explain the war mongering..the BIGGEST case of antisemetism ever WOW!

considering the regime in both countries is controlled from luciferian city of London as I showed in my earlier post

did I mention the covert actions the US Israel are already commiting in Iran
stuxnet, killing scientists, blowing stuff up...
the MEK which works for the US just got busted killing JEWS in INDIA to frame Iran in India

Malcolm X said, after the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, that “the chickens have come home to roost,” by which he meant that the violence of American interventionist foreign policy had come back to haunt the country.

The exposure of a possible Iranian bomb-making cell in Thailand, and the coordinated attacks against Israeli targets in India and Georgia, remind us of the truth behind Malcom X’s remark. It may be no accident that the attacks occurred only days after U.S. officials confirmed in an MSNBC report that Israel’s Mossad and the Iranian terrorist group Mujahedeen-e Khalq (MEK) have been collaborating on assassinating Iranian scientists and attacking military bases.

The attacks appear to represent tit-for-tat responses to a long-term covert war against Iran by Israel, along with logistical support offered by the U.S., including technical support for the development of the Stuxnet computer worm that targeted Iran’s nuclear facilities last year.

Even the method of attack in India mimics Israel-MEK assassinations in Iran, with a motorcyclist sticking a magnetic bomb to the car of an Israeli military attaché while his wife was stuck in traffic

www.koreaherald.com...
funny, how dare they defend themselves....no wonder ron paul and the patriots are so antiwar

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by seabag

 

Then which country are you fighting for? Israel or the USA? If you are putting Israel's interest over America...hmm you know the word

Iran would like to crush Israel and US. I don’t think there is any question this is true. What’s amusing is that so many people (especially here) would actually LIKE TO SEE IT HAPPEN. I think there are many people who would relish in watching the American economy implode or major Israeli cities a blaze. I think you fall into this category as well based on your numerous pro-Iranian threads and clear dislike of American foreign policy.

reply to post by seabag


Love that source. Do you actually read that on a daily basis? No wonder you are paranoid haha

If we hadn't of wasted a decade in Iraq maybe we would still have enough money and the will of the people to actually put a stop to a threat from Iran...we already blew our load, hard to tell when the willingness for war will return to the USA, maybe another big attack would do the trick.

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by seabag

 

Then which country are you fighting for? Israel or the USA? If you are putting Israel's interest over America...hmm you know the word

Iran would like to crush Israel and US. I don’t think there is any question this is true. What’s amusing is that so many people (especially here) would actually LIKE TO SEE IT HAPPEN. I think there are many people who would relish in watching the American economy implode or major Israeli cities a blaze. I think you fall into this category as well based on your numerous pro-Iranian threads and clear dislike of American foreign policy.

If Iran has the US surrounded by 40 something military bases I'd be with you. However its the other way around and you're still trying to make Iran look like the Aggressor. Fail.

reply to post by seabag

. I don’t think

you said it

who appointed you to speak for Iran SEABAG??
and there is a BIG question about Iran's motives ..its always other people saying what they are going to do
and the translations always show they aren't threatening anything except self defence
while the US and Israel are already commiting murder on them

reply to post by seabag
Thanks for your measured responses, Seabag.

This argument that the US doesn’t have money for defense (or offense) is a non-starter; that’s inaccurate. Also, I said I support Israel striking Iran…If they need US assistance in a supportive roll I don’t see what the problem is.

Sure, we've got money - but we also have mountains of debt and a multitude of other things that sorely need it, as compared to wasting it on unnecessary war. As far as supporting Israel, their experts have said before that they can handle themselves. We should just get out of the way and not get involved one way or the other.

It doesn’t matter what the US or Israel do, they will be hated regardless. I’m not of the belief that all of the hatred for Israel and the US is a result of our actions. These fanatics just want to be superpowers and they view US as an enemy. That won’t change if we appease them; Obama has proven that.

I suppose we'll have to continue to disagree, but a host of our intelligence experts and our acknowledged tinkering in the region going back to the '50s side with me on this one - and you speak of Obama's appeasement without paying tribute to his blustering and threats against them on this matter, as well as our various continued military operations against their fellow muslims, shadow operations at destabilization, and our supporting the MEK against Iran. Appeasement? No. Double-talk, perhaps.

They have a strategic alliance with Iran. They don’t want to see their oil supply disrupted and they wouldn’t be upset if America was attacked either.

So you're saying if Israel attacks Iran, they will be inclined to reciprocate? And if we support Israel in such, we are drawn in as well...and WWIII ensues? Sounds awesome. And who exactly is going to attack us anyway (minus provocation on our part, at least)? According to Israeli intelligence, certainly not Iran.

Some “experts” support the global warming theory too. So what? Why is it so hard to take Iranian leaders at their own words? Why do so many grasp at straws to defend Iranian leaders who openly call for wiping people off the face of the earth for religious beliefs?

First off, because it's not about religious beliefs. Otherwise I'm sure Iran would have long-since addressed the 2nd-largest jewish population in the middle east, which they house and give a seat in their government to...as far as the experts go, I've personally seen NONE advocating the position you do - I've only seen politicians doing so. That speaks volumes to me.

And when one of those experts is the US SECDEF, well...

Iranian leaders aren’t stupid. They have played on Obama’s weakness to the fullest and bought themselves a lot of time. I don’t blame them for doing that…it seems logical. If you’re enemy is going to turn his back then you should take advantage!

I agree with the first bit - which is why they're not going to attack Israel, as they also aren't suicidal and are acting rationally according to our intelligence sources as I've already stated.

Removing the threat before it turns into a nuclear tit-for-tat makes more sense, does it not? Besides, if Iran closed the Strait of Hormuz as they’ve threatened to do many economies would suffer severe damage. If they’re willing to do that now, without nuclear weapons, how bold would they be WITH nuclear weapons.

Depending on circumstances, it might - but as we've discussed, there's no evidence it's even GOING nuclear to start, the Israeli sources feel it's only deterrent if so as I've already mentioned...and why exactly has Iran threatened to close the Strait? Ah - because we've been meddling internally for quite some time and openly threatening military action against them, while they're surrounded by our forces and allies and have watched several of their neighbors fall to us over the last 20 years now in an apparent vendetta against effectively unarmed muslim nations who won't play ball with us.

I see all too much dancing here, with us leading. I think we'd see a very different circumstance with much less stress over the last 60 years had we followed the advice of the men who founded this once great nation.

Take care.

I think you have been cutting to the chase for a while, we know the establishment wants war, theres no cutting to the chase, we get the point.

You've always been opposed to iran getting nuclear weapons but are you opposed to israel having weapons? how about u.s. and russia and china and north korea? opposed to those powers getting weapons too?

Sanctions lead to war so the only thumb nosing is from the west. We all know you support an israeli strike on iran, the question is will you enlist in the idf to do such a thing or become president to make that dream a reality?

Isn't it ironic that you are pleading for war with iran and then say they are bad for wanting war with israel. It's hypocritical to blame Iran for aggression while the west unrelentlessly is aggressive to them.

Originally posted by METACOMET
Go ahead, stop Iran. I honestly don't care. Just don't involve me in it.

That being said, I don't think this is what you have in mind. I think your intentions are to involve me in this.

I have a feeling that your idea of how to stop Iran is for the government to put a gun to my head and either force me to go over there and kill a bunch of people I have nothing against

Regardless, he wants us to pay for it.