Let's Cut to the Chase - Iran Must Be Stopped

reply to post by sonnny1


That was me basically telling you to let them do whatever it is they do. Sorry if you're too biased to see that. Now here's me with the last word. Word.

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter


....or at least it was until it suited them otherwise. At that point they became just another expendable asset.

Iran is a friend to the USA.
American diplomacy since 1979 has failed to recognize that Iran has been a friend to the USA. American diplomacy suffers by isolating from Iran. That is the worst possible situation, no diplomacy!
The USA and Iran need to become friends again. Like in this picture from 1975.

Originally posted by sonnny1

Im not trying to one up you,Im trying to understand WHY you would advocate it............if ALL you want is peace,thats all................Because NUCLEAR WEAPONS is the last weapon of peace.

its not like nuclear weapons have kept the peace between the countries who posses them is it?

I certainly do not advocate the possession of nuclear weapons but you cannot deny MAD certainly works and has been working for well over 50 years.

Originally posted by xXxinfidelxXx
reply to post by BlackSatinDancer

 

That actually reminds me. Ever heard of a company called IG Farben? It was the chemical company that made everything from adhesives, to paint, gun propellant and even the Ricin gas that was used to kill jews in the concentration camps in WWII. Simply put: IG Farben was the corporate backbone of the Third Reich. During the Nuremberg trials, some mid-level executives got a slap on the wrist, but the high level executives, including the board of directors, went on to form BASF. You may have heard of them. They make pretty much everything. Goes to show that we really live in a corporatocracy now. (sorry if that's a made up word lol I'm sure it will catch on) Alot of these high level corporations have ties to some pretty dark undertakings, including Monsanto (Agent Orange, GM Crops), Caterpillar(supplies D9 bulldozers to the Israeli Military), General Electric (that one was obvious at least), Bayer (produced the SmallPox vaccine in Africa that was rumoured to kickstart the AIDS epidemic), Microsoft(made billions off the occupation of Iraq, CISCO(supplied the servers and satcom gear that allow the Syrian gov't to control their populace), IBM (supplied the punch-card computers that were used to catalogue and assist in the rounding up of jews in WWII) and the list goes on. Not a clean conscience (if there is any conscience) among them.

edit on 24/2/2012 by xXxinfidelxXx because: (no reason given)

no doubt...

you mention companies carrying over from nazi germany but it absolutely shocks some people to hear the claim that we have nazis in our government. it's all about money and corperations so why in the world does it surprise anyone to consider this when you have actual examples of surviving companies that no doubt were quite an influence on society and political matters both before and after the war. Corporations always effect politics. This kind of money is what creates and runs the war machine.

millions of people dead, governments rearranged, world views upheaved... yet some lines of money never miss a beat.

Coincidence??

I'd seriously have to look very close at all of it just being coincidence.

Originally posted by seabag
I have always been against Iran acquiring nuclear weapons but I hoped this could be achieved through peaceful means. However, the more news I read about Iran’s intentions and the more I watch the leaders of Iran thumb their noses at our peaceful attempts at nonproliferation the more at ease I am with backing an Israeli strike to remove Iran’s weapons and regime.

Iran openly and continuously proclaims its intentions to annihilate the Jews yet people still deny this truth:

Just read the words of Alireza Forghani, a former Iranian governor and close ally of the regime.

In the name of Allah Iran must attack Israel...

Today, the first Qibla of the Muslims has been occupied by Israel, a cancerous tumor for the Middle East. Today, Israel is causing division using all evil means. Every Muslim is obliged to equip themselves against Israel. ... and since the potential danger is facing the foundations of Islam, it is necessary for the Islamic governments in particular and other Muslims in general to remove this corrupting material by any means. All our troubles are due to Israel! And Israel results from America too.

link

The leaders of Iran continue to spew propaganda to the people of Iran and anyone who will listen. They have been beating the drums of war as leaders from around the world have tried to resolve the issues peacefully. Iranian leaders have been publicly justifying their intent to destroy Israel and people still dismiss it as harmless or try to justify this rhetoric.

The Iranian government, through a website proxy, has laid out the legal and religious justification for the destruction of Israel and the slaughter of its people.

The doctrine includes wiping out Israeli assets and Jewish people worldwide.

Calling Israel a danger to Islam, the conservative website Alef, with ties to Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said the opportunity must not be lost to remove “this corrupting material. It is a ‘jurisprudential justification” to kill all the Jews and annihilate Israel, and in that, the Islamic government of Iran must take the helm.”

The article, written by Alireza Forghani, a conservative analyst and a strategy specialist in Khamenei’s camp, now is being run on most state-owned conservative sites, including the Revolutionary Guards’ Fars News Agency, showing that the regime endorses this doctrine.

link

Personally, I am tired of the debate. I’m tired of defending my position of keeping Iran nuke free. I’m also tired of the complete lack of logic from so many here defending Iran by pointing at US actions as justification for Iran obtaining nukes. Anyone still claiming Iran is a peaceful nation is either ignorant or dishonest IMO. My disgust with Iran's cheerleaders is best summed up like this…

I do not expect those who have chosen evil to understand, but again, if they had any dignity, if they had respect for humanity, then they would not support a regime that stones women to death, a regime that rapes and tortures Iranian boys and girls to suppress their desire for freedom, a regime that chops off hands and feet in punishment for stealing, a regime that lashes Iranians as punishment for not adhering to Islamic rules and savagely attacks anyone opposing it. This is a regime that is at the helm of worldwide terrorism in which many of its officials are wanted either by Interpol or courts around the world for terrorist acts and assassinations.

link

How is anyone to reason with THIS:

The time has come for Israel to take care of these sick leaders in Iran and prevent the rise of Islamic fundamentalists.

What say you?

edit on 23-2-2012 by seabag because: (no reason given)

People like you sicken me. Yeah let's invade another country under false pretenses, causing thousands of civilian deaths, furthering the instability of the middle east. We've been hearing the same old crap about Iran for years, but where is the proof? There isn't any! But judging by your avatar and your gun-ho attitude... I doubt there is any reasonable expectation of changing your outlook on the situation.

reply to post by Garfee


Yup, people need to realise that that soldier or Marine that they look down their nose at, at one point, was just some poor kid from a poor family who had nowhere else to turn to make something out of their lives, so they enlisted. It is always the poor who go and fight in the rich man's wars as the poor and semi-literate are the easiest prey for the propaganda machine. I know from my experience, the recruiter basically took every myth about the military and blew it up to astronomical proportions. He threw all sorts of words at me like "honour" and "duty" and "sacrifice", but when it comes down to it, most of us eventually end up realizing that they are just words. Like that big mother in Full Metal Jacket says "If I'm gonna get greased 'cause of a word, my word's 'poontang'" lol) There's a reason why most enlisted personnel only serve the minimum time, with the exception being those who are stop-lossed into going back again (basically a back-door draft). They see with their own eyes that something is terribly wrong with this picture, which is why I think your vets are going to be a far more integral part of your future than they will up here. Most of the vets I know are just those nerdy types who are afraid to speak out, as our NDAs are some pretty serious mojo. Sometimes I even feel like I've said too much just saying the name of my Reg't on the internet. It's that serious. Also why I distrust anyone who outwardly claims to be military hot-shot, as well. Trust not those who come right out with things you didn't even ask about. The true mark of a liar is over-embellishment of little details. Also, they say that the silver tongue is the mark of a good officer, and of a liar. One thing I have learned is to trust neither.

So another war mongering thread by Seabag.

And you guys kept it up for 17 pages.

It's just too see through, sorry.

reply to post by diamount


More like millions of deaths, including many more millions of casualties of radiation poisoning and heavy metal poisoning from the tiny bits of frag that end up being breathed in and deposited in drinking water due to Depleted Uranium and other long-term damage causing munitions (you don't have to nuke an area to irradiate it, with DU, you get radiation without the nasty headlines that go along with nuke detonations, and then there's the rumors of neutron bomb useage in Fallujah and Baghdad (neutron bombs basically vapourise anything organic but leave the infrastructure intact, in short, an occupier's wet dream.) and of wells being poisoned with dioxin to rout out the supposed terrorists that were "hiding in with the populace."

Originally posted by oddnutz

Originally posted by sonnny1

Im not trying to one up you,Im trying to understand WHY you would advocate it............if ALL you want is peace,thats all................Because NUCLEAR WEAPONS is the last weapon of peace.

its not like nuclear weapons have kept the peace between the countries who posses them is it?

I certainly do not advocate the possession of nuclear weapons but you cannot deny MAD certainly works and has been working for well over 50 years.

I will agree that it has,because there are limited countries that have them.

I would like to see ZERO Bombs. Period.

I believe,that the more country's that have them,the likelihood that someone might use them,increases. Unstable country's,country's that have dictators,etc..... are the ones that concern me.

Also,America and the Soviet Union almost pushed the button,over stupidity,and over error. If these two mighty country's can almost destroy the world,who says its not possible for Iran to make a mistake ? The rhetoric is a concern.

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


Sorry...what? That didn't really make any sense.

reply to post by rekkie


I have no involvement with these wars, therefore I cannot take credit for them. If I could I would grab Harper by the lapels and scold him like the little baby he is, but I am nothing but a lowly civvie now. What do you expect me to do? Go all bleeding heart over the inevitable? I'm sorry, but I'm not strong enough to worry about everything all the time. I have enough to worry about with paying my rent to worry about whether Russia will b tchslap the states for attacking Iran. It's half the world away, and if they come here, I will paint a bullseye on my roof so they can better aim the bomb that will put me out of my misery. That clear enough for ya? War has hollowed me out. I'm spent. I can only empathize and hope for the best, but I really don't care what dialogue is being played through the MSM. It's all song and dance as far as I'm concerned. It's easier to control people who are scared all the time. Didn't you know that?

reply to post by redoubt


redoubt
it has become impossible to criticize anyone who is Jewish it seems, whereas all others can be criticized?
Israel is one of the biggest bullies in that region, holding nuclear power, and stealing land willy-nilly...they have no intention of living in peace with their neighbors in the region and everyone knows this. Yet nobody is allowed to say it, because apparently Jews are above the law.

Listen - a Jew is no worse than a Hindu, Christian, Sikh or whatever. But if he is willing to kill palestinians to have his swimming pool, then he is no better than a Nazi, Muslim fundamentalist, colonialist scourge or whatever. And NOT ALL JEWS ARE ZIONISTS get that through your head before you whine further.

If I were Iran I'd be terrified and working overtime to produce a detterent against eventual takeover by the Anglo/Israel alliance - in this case, Iran has gone nuclear...the only thing that will keep the bullies away.

What's more , having seen hundreds of Israelis here (India) I can tell you for a fact what a racist, arrogant bunch they are...rude, supremacist (btw white Israelis treat non-white Jews like S**T), they act like they are entitled to be served by all non-Jews. Trust me their attitude is the problem, and this war-threat against Iran is just part of their long-term agenda to ruin everyone in their region, to reduce them to lower-class servants of the Israelis.

Nations are made up of people, and the people of Israel seem to be well on the path to sociopathy. Iranians are heavily-islamified Persians, so they are not so kosher either, but I think it's Israel's sense of entitlement that's causing the main problems, not the beards of Iran.

reply to post by BlackSatinDancer


The funny thing is, the meaning of Fascism has become so diluted that most people think that it just means there's a dictator in place, without realising that there are a hundred different types of dictatorships, from Inverted Totalitarianism (true fascism) all the way up to Classic Totalitarianism (think Mao or Stalin). Fascism, by definition, is when administrative policy is dictated by economics, which is exactly, to the T, what is happening now. The funny thing is, I heard some idiot on CNN the other day that was supposedly Iranian that was saying he was astonished at the freedoms that we have here. I personally don't know where he was looking, but I haven't seen that place yet. True fascism is when the dollar controls policy. We all live in an Inverted Totalitarian state, which is ruled from behind the curtain, if you will, by the corporate masters, while Iran is more like a somewhat softer version of classical Totalitarianism. The goal of a true totalitarian government is to control it's own people. Instead of attacking other countries, their government attacks it's own people (ie. Soviet Russia. As a matter of fact, Russia almost lost wwII because of how beaten-down the populace had become. He even had many of his best military officers and politicos executed on suspicion of treason without proof, while a war with Nazi Germany was clearly brewing). That's how much he hated his own people), whereas, in Inverted Totalitarianism, there is a somewhat multi-theatre approach (ie. attacking their manufactured enemies both at home and abroad) Post-Weihmarr Germany and present-day USA are prime examples of this approach.

reply to post by rainychica


Yup. Up here in Canada, you can actually receive jail time for publically denouncing the crimes of Israel or sympathizing with the Palestinian refugees. Not that I care anymore anyways. I will say what needs to be said, regardless of backlash. The truth is more important than my quality of life.

Originally posted by seabag

Iran openly and continuously proclaims its intentions to annihilate the Jews yet people still deny this truth:

The “Wipe Israel off the map” is a fallacy.

This is the true origin on the story.

Ahmadinejad has a very basic understanding of the English language, he is also a man of short stature. On this particular day in the presidential palace he went to use the toilet. The Middle Eastern toilet is quite different from those in the West. It is basically a hole with a hand rail. Ahmadinejad urinated and being a small guy, splashed about a bit. He went to get a mop to wipe down the spattered rail then realised he had underlings for such a task. He went to the balcony and saw Ayell, an Egyptian employee working in the garden. The common language they both have is basic English. Ahmadinejad leaned over and shouted, “Ayell, wipe piss rail off – the mop,” and tossed the mop down to the man. The instruction was overheard by a visiting journalist and misunderstood. There you have it!

I guess I just don't get why Iran wants nukes. I mean, I GET it, but I don't get what they plan to do once they have them.

Sure, they want nukes since Israel has nukes. That's probably a major reason, among others.

At the same time though, what I don't get is what they think they're going to do with nukes if they do get them.

Are they going to nuke Israel? That would mean Iran would VERY quickly be reduced to a giant crater. Surely they are aware of it. What good would be killing that many Israelis do if it meant the entire destruction of your own country?

Are they going to threaten America with their nuke? I think we all know America won't stop whatever schemes it has cooking up because Iran has a nuke. I think Iran knows it can't nuke America because the same result would happen as if it decided to nuke Israel. Iran would cease to exist shortly after, so that would be pointless.

Do they just want it for the sake of having it to look at? That seems like the only real option they have, and I would hope they're aware of that.

Originally posted by Qemyst

... they want nukes since Israel has nukes

Isreal should use their nukes already

An unused weapon is an atrocity to god

F*** the chest pumping already

Let's blow some s*** up

My kids are ready for war

Raise thy children in thy wisdom and thy ways

All knees shall bow to thy lord Big Brother

reply to post by torsion


LOL Siilly as that story is, it just made me laugh out loud literally
Thanks - got a horrible flu so this was good medicine )

Originally posted by ImpartialObserver

Originally posted by Qemyst

... they want nukes since Israel has nukes

Isreal should use their nukes already

# the chest pumping already

Let's blow some # up

My kids are ready for war

Well it's like.... Israel could have easily wiped Iran off the face of the world many times over with nukes already, but haven't. If they were planning to nuke Iran, why would they wait for Iran to have nukes of their own? That kinda is why I don't get why Iran wants them so bad. Israel obviously isn't going to nuke Iran, but Iran wants nukes, and obviously isn't going to nuke Israel, because if they do, Iran will cease to exist. Just seems like Iran wants nukes so they can look at em and use it as some sort of saber rattling, which won't work because no-one is going to ever use them, and everyone else knows it.

It's all so very confusing.