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Grandpa Arrested for Holding Burglar at Gunpoint

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posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 09:26 AM
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The Republic Magazine repo rts:


The police did nothing to prevent the robbery of Dennis Fleming’s home in Farmington, New Hampshire, or to catch the burglar – but they may succeed in sending the 61-year-old grandfather to prison for using a handgun to apprehend the man suspected of several local break-ins.

On February 19, Fleming discovered that his home had been robbed. Spying a suspicious-looking man with a backpack, Fleming grabbed his handgun and strode off in pursuit.

Shortly thereafter, Fleming heard a loud crash and saw the same suspicious man jumping out of a neighbor’s rear window. Holding out his handgun, Fleming ordered the intruder to freeze, firing a single round into the ground. He detained the suspect until the police arrived.

The suspect, 27-year-old Joseph Herbert, was found to be in possession of a number of stolen items, including antique watches and silver coins. There is evidence that the same suspect had been involved in a string of robberies elsewhere in town.

A few hours later, Fleming called the police to find out if the suspect had been released on bail. To his amazement, Fleming discovered that he because he had harmlessly discharged his firearm into the ground, he was going to be charged with reckless conduct – a Class B felony that could result in a prison sentence of the same length confronted by the robber he had detained.

“I didn’t think I could handle this guy physically, so I fired into the ground,” Fleming told a local Fox News affiliate. “He stopped. He knew I was serious. I was angry … and I was worried that this guy was going to come after me.”

If Fleming had been wearing a government-issued costume, he could have justified shooting the suspect – or even an innocent bystander — in the name of “officer safety,” without facing criminal charges. Furthermore, New Hampshire’s recently expanded “Castle Law” recognizes that Fleming – like all other citizens of the Granite State – has an unqualified right to armed self-defense. As Judge Andrew Napolitano points out, Fleming’s action reflects a “uniquely American way to protect his property and to protect his neighbor’s property.”


read more

He sounds like a dangerous terrist to me.

Of course, the reason why Fleming was charged was because he completely undermined the need for a police force. If everyone ran around arresting criminals on their own, pretty soon people might figure out that they don’t need to pay through the nose for a completely ineffective police force that robs them at gun point for going 10 over the speed limit.

Listen to economist Robert Murphy explain how the private market could deal with these situations.





posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 09:39 AM
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reply to post by AnarchoCapitalist
 


Yeah, he sounds like a vigilante. Can't have citizens protecting themselves or their neighbors... because that would go along with common sense. WTF is going on?? I think I'm going to have a mental breakdown in 3...2...1...

yep, there it is...

I've gone crazy now

Perfect!!... I have things to do damnit!!

edit on 23-2-2012 by six67seven because: Go Ron Paul!



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 09:41 AM
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reply to post by AnarchoCapitalist
 


I feel very sorry for Dennis Fleming. My hopes are that when this goes to court the Judge will dismiss it immediately and his home town will give him a medal for risking his own life to protect his community.

This is a sad state of affairs. There was a time when it was thought that police were the second line of defense and that it was the responsibility of each american to protect his property, life and the property and life of his neighbors.

The courts have ruled that the police are under no obligation to protect you yet when we protect ourselves stuff like this happens. I understand the police don't want people going around playing cops and robbers but seriously, this man is a hero. Things like this are becoming far to common.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 09:49 AM
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I swear, sometimes i think the police's secret task is to 'help' criminals and harras & imprison law abiding citizens.

Its like they look at burglars and think "you know what guys, its probably a good idea to let this man stay free and give him no help at all, so that he can go into peoples houses, cause a rukas and we can then hit the victims with stronger charges", like ABH/ GBH/Possession of a gun with intent, etc. That way we look good"

Insane. . .



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 09:55 AM
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Originally posted by sageofmonticello
reply to post by AnarchoCapitalist
 


I feel very sorry for Dennis Fleming. My hopes are that when this goes to court the Judge will dismiss it immediately and his home town will give him a medal for risking his own life to protect his community.

This is a sad state of affairs. There was a time when it was thought that police were the second line of defense and that it was the responsibility of each american to protect his property, life and the property and life of his neighbors.

The courts have ruled that the police are under no obligation to protect you yet when we protect ourselves stuff like this happens. I understand the police don't want people going around playing cops and robbers but seriously, this man is a hero. Things like this are becoming far to common.


well it seems that we have no shortage of people playing robbers. Now if real cops would just start acting like real cops we wouldnt have to be playing cops.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 09:59 AM
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Originally posted by gunshooter

well it seems that we have no shortage of people playing robbers. Now if real cops would just start acting like real cops we wouldnt have to be playing cops.


Cops play at being real cops. They undermine private property rights at every turn, while at the same time they run around claiming that they protect private property rights.

How can an institution that makes its living through coercive theft be a "protector" of property rights?

No one voluntarily pays the police force. No one voluntarily pays tickets issued for victimless crimes. The police have no market incentive to protect property rights or provide high quality customer service.

The police are nothing more than a criminal gang of thieves in my book.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 10:02 AM
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If everyone was like him we wouldn't need the police force, they would just be a taxi service and loose their power. This kin of activity does not protect the police departments needs.

On the other side of it the police may have shot the old guy if they responded because they would have seen a man with a gun at a crime scene. He could have shot a gas line in the ground causing a problem. What he did worked. I think the judicial system will regret their decision in the long run for charging him. If they don't drop the charges this will cause a nationwide change in peoples attitude towards our judicial system. It's already done but the publicity of a trial will cause Kaos (Get Smart 60s) to occur



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 10:03 AM
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Originally posted by gunshooter

well it seems that we have no shortage of people playing robbers. Now if real cops would just start acting like real cops we wouldnt have to be playing cops.


Haha, grandpa showed them up.

Besides, there's no revenue in that. Lets issue more federal/state grants(investments) to hire cops on OT to issue citations for speeding, seatbeats, etc. Because catching Mrs. Jones speeding a little while she's late for work is more important than catching a burgler.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 10:05 AM
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Originally posted by rickymouse
If everyone was like him we wouldn't need the police force, they would just be a taxi service and loose their power. This kin of activity does not protect the police departments needs.

On the other side of it the police may have shot the old guy if they responded because they would have seen a man with a gun at a crime scene. He could have shot a gas line in the ground causing a problem. What he did worked. I think the judicial system will regret their decision in the long run for charging him. If they don't drop the charges this will cause a nationwide change in peoples attitude towards our judicial system. It's already done but the publicity of a trial will cause Kaos (Get Smart 60s) to occur


The judicial system does not care what people think about it. It is beholden to no one.

The judicial system's primary concern is protecting its monopoly on the use of violence. To this end, it will impose itself on those who dare to take matters into their own hands.

The State is a monopoly of force, and it will protect that monopoly to the bitter end.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 10:08 AM
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It is pathetic that we live in a world where you can trust a cop as much as you can trust a criminal. A petition needs to be started for this man so that he can keep his freedoms. Now I'm sure we are gonna here from all the cop lovers defending those pigs actions as well. How much more of this are we going to take as citizens standing by letting the gestapo rule us like we are the criminals. UGHHH, I could go on and on, but in the great words of Jay and Silent Bob, (well, not silent bob so much)
edit on 23-2-2012 by Byrd because: Link removed - profanity



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 10:15 AM
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Mr. Flemming was NOT arrested for holding the burglar at gunpoint. He was arrested for negligent discharge of a firearm. Had he used the weapon to detain (or neutralize) the threat in his own home, things would be much different. Mr. Flemming was not in his home, there was no imminent and immediate threat to himself, his family or those around him and as such use of such force was not justified.

All that said - I hope he gets off or can plea down to a lesser charge. He was a citizen trying to do a good thing, he just went about it the wrong way.

See related post
edit on 23-2-2012 by Tripnman because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-2-2012 by Tripnman because: URL repair



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 10:18 AM
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reply to post by AnarchoCapitalist
 
You and I see things differently and that's all right. We both see a problem but you see a problem with no possible solution other than getting a new system. I tend to look at possible solutions that don't promote chaos.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by AnarchoCapitalist
 
You and I see things differently and that's all right. We both see a problem but you see a problem with no possible solution other than getting a new system. I tend to look at possible solutions that don't promote chaos.



Chaos is what we have now.

Police arresting people for selling lemonade without a license.

Police arresting people for dancing in public.

Police arresting people for distributing pamphlets.

Police arresting people for selling raw milk.

etc.. etc.. etc..

THAT IS CHAOS - THAT IS VIOLENCE - THAT IS BARBARISM

Voluntarism is the absence of coercion. Voluntarism is the absence of violence. Voluntarism is the absence of barbarism.

You can not save a system that is predicated on violent theft. It is not possible to reform it.


edit on 2/23/2012 by AnarchoCapitalist because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 10:27 AM
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Super-awesome update!


The county attorney's office is dropping charges against a man who tracked down a burglary suspect and held him at gunpoint until police could arrive.
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"The facts available at the scene on Saturday supported the charge of felony reckless conduct, but subsequent facts discovered since have led me to believe that such a charge under these circumstances would be unjust," the Strafford County attorney said in a statement.


A state attorney doing the right thing as opposed to pressing as hard as possible to make a score for himself.

It's a good day for good men.
edit on 23-2-2012 by thisguyrighthere because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 10:32 AM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


That is fantastic news.

Public outcry must have gotten to him.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by AnarchoCapitalist
 


Several years ago....I was living and working in Seattle...and there had been a string of assaults in the neighborhood. One night ....I got a knock on my door...and I looked through the peep-hole and did not recognize the man...so I did not answer. Then a few night later another man came and knocked on my door...and tried to get in. I called the police. I think he must have heard me because he left.

The police arrived I told them about the 2 strange men coming to my door. They said I was smart in looking through the peep-hole first.

I asked them about self-defense and the police told me if an intruder gets inside your home and you defend yourself inside the home....it is justifiable....but if I (in defense) assaulted someone outside of my home...I could be brought up on charges.

I personally think that what he did was ok....it stopped the criminal...and he helped his neighbors out. He should not be brought up on charges.

Edit: I just read the charges were dropped...I am so glad!




edit on 23-2-2012 by caladonea because: (no reason given)



edit on 23-2-2012 by caladonea because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 10:38 AM
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Originally posted by caladonea

Unfortunately according to the law...he did wrong.


Are drug deals wrong because they break the law?

Are pot smokers wrong because they break the law?

Are people who sell raw milk wrong because they break the law?


Were the people who helped hide run away slaves wrong because they broke the law?

Were the people who violated Jim Crow laws wrong because they broke the law?

Was Rosa Parks wrong because she broke the law?

What is the law?



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 10:42 AM
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reply to post by AnarchoCapitalist
 


Please..don't shoot the messenger...lol...that is what I was told by the police...and I didn't agree with them.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 10:43 AM
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reply to post by AnarchoCapitalist
 


All morning local news was reporting on the "public outrage."

Public outcry is also what got Ward Bird freed. freewardbird.org Though he had to endure some jail time while legislators twiddled their thumbs.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 11:05 AM
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reply to post by AnarchoCapitalist
 
You need to put faith in the good people that exist. Our system is severely flawed and all of what you say is mostly true but we need to try to change this the right way. To change you need to get the support of the good people and they tend to see the flaws in society but don't like radical change because of what is seen in history. I'm sure even the cops get frustrated when they bring in a crook and our laws are so strict to protect the rights of individuals that they walk even though they are guilty. The legal system is getting too complicated.




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