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Dolphins are Self Aware - Why this matters so much

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posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 11:28 PM
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I have given my life to animals,I am peniless yet have a small farm and indoor pets.I rely on plenty of help and kindness.Even my two minature hamsters had intelligence and love in bucket loads.For anyone who is interested in Dolphins they should check out the recent "Dolphin Tale" movie.




posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 03:23 AM
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reply to post by TheLieWeLive
 
Ok. Going back to my dog. We went away for a week and left behind his favourite toy. He must have taken it out of the bag when we were not looking.

We were away for a week. On our return, when we opened the door, his tail wagged wildly. He ran (no sniffing or searching) straight to where he had left it.

To me that shows memory (and he displays this all the time). Now his tail wagging means he was excited at the memory of his toy and that going through that door would mean he can be reunited with it. (Emotion)

The fact that he has a memory and uses it must indicate reason as he has to make sense of the memory for it to be of use.

I believe we share all traits with animals and the only difference is the level we use them at and how we use them.

When we accept we are all members of a familiy and respect all life as we do our brothers, sisters and relatives only then will we truely be able to call ourselves intelliegent.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 03:55 AM
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Originally posted by RatoAstuto
Never have I seen footage of of other animals, not even our primate cousins, so much as sharpen a stick on a rock.


That's odd..


Primates
Tool use by a gorilla
An adult gorilla, possibly using a stick to gauge the depth of water
A chimpanzee gathering food with a stick

Research in 2007 shows that chimpanzees in the Fongoli savanna sharpen sticks to use as spears when hunting, considered the first evidence of systematic use of weapons in a species other than humans.[7][8] Chimpanzees and bonobos were observed in the 1970s using sticks as probes to collect ants and termites. Dr. Jane Goodall, on Nov. 4, 1960, observed a chimpanzee using a grass stalk to extract termites. Also they have been observed cutting down the stick with their fingers and teeth so that it can fit into a hole in the ants' nest. They have even been observed using two tools, a stick to dig into the ant nest and a "brush" made from grass stems with their teeth to collect the ants.

In one troop of chimpanzees, it was observed that a female was using a stick to break into a bee hive to acquire honey. Both bonobos and chimpanzees have also been observed making "sponges" out of leaves and moss that suck up water and are used as grooming tools.

Gorillas have been observed using sticks to measure the depth of water and as "walking sticks" to support their posture when crossing deeper water.[9]

Orangutans have also been observed using sticks to measure the depth of water. It has also been observed that orangutans in Sumatra use sticks to acquire seeds from a certain fruit. This is because the lining of the inside of the fruit has hairs that sting. On the island of Kaja, a male orangutan was observed using a pole to acquire fish from a net after observing local humans spear fishing.[10]

Tool use has been observed in capuchin monkeys both in captivity and in their natural environments. In a captive environment, capuchins readily insert a stick into a tube containing viscous food that clings to the stick, which they then extract and lick.[11] Capuchins also use a stick to push food from the center of a tube retrieving the food when it reaches the far end,[12] and as a rake to sweep objects or food toward themselves.[13]

Wild capuchin monkeys in many areas use stone hammers and anvils to crack nuts and encased seed.[14][15] They transport stones and nuts to an anvil for this purpose.[16] Capuchins also use stones to excavate tubers and sticks to flush prey from inside rock crevices.[17]

Wikipedia






posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 05:39 AM
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reply to post by templar knight
 


We have laws in place and saved a number of "human beings" from Capital Punishment, abuse and mistreatment and a few of these "human beings" were not as intelligent or self aware as the Dolphin and none of them as social. Dolphins have been known on many occasions to save the lives of humans by pushing them to shore or slamming into sharks. We have humans rotting in jail cells right now who not only never saved a life but have taken many and yet they have more rights and are still better respected than this creature.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 07:43 AM
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I think you have to figure out if their is a soul first to be asking that question. also if their is actually a god. also so their self aware they can feel? when you hit a dog does it not cry? when you shoot a deer does it not freak the # out? I think there are a lot of animals that can feel if not all, with or without being self conscious. I think we just need to stick with getting our # right that way everything will be solved.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 08:01 AM
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Dolphins are Self Aware - Why this matters so much


It doesn't matter at all, being self-aware is not proof of a higher form of intelligence. There's no question dolphins are smart, but so are chimpanzees. That doesn't put them in the same league as humans. Forms of higher intelligence build transportation systems, dwellings, infrastructure, communications networks, etc. etc. etc. These are the very things we search for when we seek out evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence. There is no creature on earth that has demonstrated the ability to build things other than man. There is a reason that we can't communicate with dolphins despite decades of trying, they do not have the capacity to thoughtfully communicate. Sure they can communicate basic messages like "I'm hungry" but so can any number of other animals. Even the average housepet can communicate that message and 20 or so other basics.

I'm all for respecting dolphins (and all other animals for that matter), but all this talk of elevating dolphins as being equal to humans is completely laughable.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 08:08 AM
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Originally posted by SavedOne
Forms of higher intelligence build transportation systems, dwellings, infrastructure, communications networks, etc. etc. etc.


You (and many others) have determined that this means humans possess "higher intelligence"... But looking at the long term-effects of what we've done here may reveal that we're not as intelligent as we think.


How many animals can you name whose actions are destroying their very habitat (like humans)? Wouldn't it be the intelligent thing to do to preserve our planet and its resources?



I'm all for respecting dolphins (and all other animals for that matter), but all this talk of elevating dolphins as being equal to humans is completely laughable.


They are not equal to humans. But where they are on the scale (higher or lower intelligence), I'm not convinced. You see, it all depends on who writes the tests.
If dolphins cared about intelligence and cared to test ours compared to theirs, we might see very different results.

(I don't think dolphins should have human rights.)
edit on 2/23/2012 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 08:09 AM
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Here is scientist Michio Kaku speaking on animal language.

Dolphins are PROVEN to have an intelligent language. They talk to one another. They are extremely smart...

Whales too




edit on 23-2-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 08:18 AM
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I would question your statement that a cat is self-aware. Except that I had a cat once that had a sense of humor. One day he was sitting on top of the dresser at the far end of the room and I was looking for him in all his usual spots. He NEVER sat on that dresser so I didn't look there. Finally I spotted him sitting on the dresser and I swear he was laughing at me. You know how cats smile. He was doing that and opening and closing them in quick succession and kind of moving his head a little bit. He had watched me looking for him, and he thought it was funny. I don't think he could do that without self-awareness.

The other thing is, the very first day I brought him into my apt. He had been living on my block. He would walk up to people's porches and they would feed him, but no one let him in. It was winter and I felt bad so I asked the neighbors if he was anyone's cat and they said no, he was a stray. So I picked him up and put him in my apt. Then I ran out to buy cat food. I was gone about a half hour. When I came back he walked towards me where I was standing by the door, coming from the direction of my bedroom. He was walking kind of slowly and hesitantly, and he looked embarrassed. I'm not kidding. There was an expression in his eyes that was like, 'what am I supposed to do? Why am I here?' Like he was self-conscious because he didn't know what the deal was. I'm not kidding.

Maybe animals in general are self-aware. Maybe that whole, 'animals are not self-aware' thing is not true.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 08:21 AM
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It doesn't matter if an animal isn't as smart as me. It is still alive, and that is all that matters.

Do you see a down syndrome person as below you because they are mentally impaired?


My dogs are JUST as much alive as I am. So what if they can't read Shakespeare, it really isn't that important.

We should treat all animals with respect and treat them humanely. I'm not against eating meat because that is how the world works. But factory farms are HORRIBLE.. The way some people treat animals is disgusting. There is no excuse for it.


edit on 23-2-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-2-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by SavedOne


Dolphins are Self Aware - Why this matters so much


It doesn't matter at all, being self-aware is not proof of a higher form of intelligence. There's no question dolphins are smart, but so are chimpanzees. That doesn't put them in the same league as humans. Forms of higher intelligence build transportation systems, dwellings, infrastructure, communications networks, etc. etc. etc. These are the very things we search for when we seek out evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence. There is no creature on earth that has demonstrated the ability to build things other than man. There is a reason that we can't communicate with dolphins despite decades of trying, they do not have the capacity to thoughtfully communicate. Sure they can communicate basic messages like "I'm hungry" but so can any number of other animals. Even the average housepet can communicate that message and 20 or so other basics.

I'm all for respecting dolphins (and all other animals for that matter), but all this talk of elevating dolphins as being equal to humans is completely laughable.


What's interesting is that when you put building things as the demarcation line of what gets you into the higher realms of intelligence that deserves respect, these are things that men do. Women can't do these things. Think about it. Bridges, roads, buildings, machines, etc.... If there were just women in the world none of this would exist.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 08:28 AM
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If its living.....it is evolving. There is do doubt that a Dolphin is smart and should be treated with respect and that goes for every living being including our Planet.

The problem is Man with his ego, pride, and greed is so self aware that he manipulates his own mind and others for his own gain. Sad, but true!



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 08:30 AM
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Originally posted by templar knight
The original article on whether the dolphin has rights is pretty impressive. It was followed up by a thread on ATS.

Just as impressive, is that the dolphin is self aware , they can communicate and have a reasonably large vocabulary. Dolphins can use tools and pass on their skills to their pups. Dolphins have also shown emotions (by staring angrily at a cameraman).

The amount of intelligence that a dolphin has - opens all sorts of questions :
- Can a dolphin pass on knowledge verbally from one generation to the next? (Very likely)
- Can a dolphin tell a story? Can a dolphin visualise?
- If a dolphin is self aware then can it know right from wrong? Does it have a moral code?
- Does a dolphin have real choices and can it feel "bad" when it makes the wrong choice?
- Does a dolphin have faith? Does a dolphin have a soul?

If the answer to some of the questions are YES then the intelligence and conscious of the human is no longer unique. This has all sorts of moral (Dolphin Rights) as well as religious issues (God gave free will to two creatures not one).

This also has impacts on the disclosure of ET - many of the problems of disclosure is that it makes the human no longer the unique animal to have such a level of self awareness. However, the dolphin may have already crossed this ground.

I do think that these findings could be so fundamental in years to come



There are humans that treat other humans who are proved to be all these things you state and more with less respect that they would a dog. What makes you think they would care about an animal not even of its own species??

Im sorry but until people learn to treat other people like humans the rest of the animals on this planet have no chance.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by templar knight
 


We have laws in place and saved a number of "human beings" from Capital Punishment, abuse and mistreatment and a few of these "human beings" were not as intelligent or self aware as the Dolphin and none of them as social. Dolphins have been known on many occasions to save the lives of humans by pushing them to shore or slamming into sharks. We have humans rotting in jail cells right now who not only never saved a life but have taken many and yet they have more rights and are still better respected than this creature.


Virtually everyone on death row was severely abused as a child and most of them have some form of brain damage, usually resulting from abuse. This has been documented. I know it doesn't fit into neat categories of good vs. evil. It leaves room for ambiguity and uncertainty about where to place certain individuals in the moral continuum. Which is not comfortable. Not self-righteously satisfying. But true nonetheless. I venture that dolphin parents don't abuse their young. Why they don't is something I can't answer.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 08:55 AM
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Here are 3 great videos on the subject, if your interested








posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 09:06 AM
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reply to post by karen61057
 


We are the greatest species on Earth, period.
We take over, kill, rape, cheat, steal, manipulate, control, cause sorrow, arrogantly step on less fortunate countries to take what little they have, mow down entire plains of forest, pollute as much as possible, overproduce and waste food every year, and let our destinies in the hands of greedy wealthy and selfish human beings.

We starve our people to death, bring more chaos where there already is,
Just basically rape the world.

But hell yeah! We are the greatest dominant species alive on Earth.

In case you we're wondering/sarcasm my friend.
Peace and humbleness never killed anyone...



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 01:45 PM
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reply to post by stirling
 


You should try the self awareness test, the one they use on children to figure out when they become self aware.

What you do is put a mark on the childs face without them realising, with a lip stick or something, then you put them I front of the mirror. If they look at the reflection in the mirror and touch the mark on their face then they are self aware, because they know that's them in the mirror, if not then they are not selfe aware, in other words they don't know they are separate from you(the parent), and the person in the mirror is just another small person.

Not sure how yo would do that with a cat though



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 03:02 PM
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reply to post by karen61057
 


I don't think cats are self aware. Do a little experiment. Try to put something on your cat at a place where he can't see it. If he sees it in the mirror will he try to take it off, no. But a Daulphin, put a mark on him. If it sees it in the mirror it will twist and turn to observe it better. I couldn't find the vid I was looking for but this one is pretty good as well. You can see the Daulphins contort to see their own bellies and what not. Pretty neet.




posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by mainidh
 


Nice find, I hadn't heard of the chimps in Fongoli sharpening sticks. The others, what with the sticks in ant hills, is what I was referencing in my post. Maybe the other primates are a bit more creative than I thought, but I'll have to look further into it.

I still consider creativity the "gap" between us and other animals, but fully realize that there is always the possibility for other species to reach sentience, and even minor evidence that some have, in regards to the dolphins and their complex language.

And that is why I say that now is the time to act, before the animal scourge grows tall enough to challenge its master! Nuke the oceans... more so than we already have, I mean :p



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 09:40 PM
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One could question...

Do dolphins discuss with each other the philosophical question, are humans self aware.

If you consider it, the answer they might conclude is...maybe...but not to any advanced stage (if they knew about our livelyhoods)


So, lets consider it.
Humans eat poison daily..suggesting they are not understanding of our own harmful behavior even with a high body count (smoking, overeating, etc). Also, humans seem to murder each other for no real reason...same reason a lion will murder another lion coming into its area.

What do humans have that is soo advanced? We live in shambly rock and dead plant homes...big deal, ants make our efforts look stupid by scaled comparison. We herd animals...again, ants beat us here (by also herding certain sugar bugs (citation needed for name) to collect and eat.
We have learned some physics though that project us high...so they might be a bit impressed about that (boats, subs, planes, etc)...but otherwise, we are just doing what everything else in nature does...just with a bit more flair.



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