IRAN - Final Verdict for Christian Pastor - DEATH

Originally posted by 1ibl2ibs
If the death sentence is indeed carried out, I pray that he may have the experiences Stephen had before he was stoned by the Sanhedrin. I pray that he would see Jesus standing and waiting for him and that God would allow him to fall asleep before the execution is carried out.

What breaks my heart is the mention of their children. What has happened to them? The mom is serving a life sentence and the dad is about to be hanged.

If he "falls asleep" before the execution is carried out then he will not be able to participate in the suffering of Christ on Calvary, thus taking all the merit out of being martyred.

The early martyrs suffered terrible torture and death, but they stayed steadfast through it all. This is the beauty of martyrdom, to put oneself in the place of Christ, to accept whatever suffering befalls you, and to pray for the forgiveness of your murderers while they spit on you and cut your throat.

Originally posted by 1ibl2ibs
If the death sentence is indeed carried out, I pray that he may have the experiences Stephen had before he was stoned by the Sanhedrin. I pray that he would see Jesus standing and waiting for him and that God would allow him to fall asleep before the execution is carried out.

What breaks my heart is the mention of their children. What has happened to them? The mom is serving a life sentence and the dad is about to be hanged.

You must have missed the part where it says the mother was given a life sentence, but she was released in October 2010 anyway.

Originally posted by AntoniusBlock

Originally posted by 1ibl2ibs
If the death sentence is indeed carried out, I pray that he may have the experiences Stephen had before he was stoned by the Sanhedrin. I pray that he would see Jesus standing and waiting for him and that God would allow him to fall asleep before the execution is carried out.

What breaks my heart is the mention of their children. What has happened to them? The mom is serving a life sentence and the dad is about to be hanged.

If he "falls asleep" before the execution is carried out then he will not be able to participate in the suffering of Christ on Calvary, thus taking all the merit out of being martyred.

The early martyrs suffered terrible torture and death, but they stayed steadfast through it all. This is the beauty of martyrdom, to put oneself in the place of Christ, to accept whatever suffering befalls you, and to pray for the forgiveness of your murderers while they spit on you and cut your throat.

One of the earliest martyr on record (Stephen)...if not the first Christian martyr, didn't stay awake to participate in the suffering. The fact that he stood for Christ was enough for Christ to stand for him. Pain and suffering isn't a requirement.

Well, they did it. Their constantly pushing it until someone just says enough is enough. They knew this would work. Its been working for as long as I can remember. Its a reason their called the "elite".

Their making people fight and kill for no reason...Yet the people think their God is better.
The people think that what their doing has a reason behind it. That's what it'll eventually boil down to.

Why not just tell people the truth?

Religion vs religion, race vs race. All a bunch of little kid things.
Its like fighting about a bike. Its the same exact bike, but the
cyclists think their color is better. So then they fight.

What can undo 500+ years of brainwashing? I'd like to find out.

Before I go off-topic, I'd like to go back to my less-humane side
and say : Its their country and whether or not you like it, its
nothing you can do about it anyway. We may or may not know
the real reason behind the final verdict, but our country is no better.
We can make people look like Hitler, or make them walk on
water with MSM. Although in my eyes it is a little cruel.
Life goes on.

Also, I quick edit to ask an important question

What do you guys suppose we do about this?
(IF we could) You talk down to this country...
What do you suppose we DO? What action
should we take?

Originally posted by Deetermined

Originally posted by 1ibl2ibs
If the death sentence is indeed carried out, I pray that he may have the experiences Stephen had before he was stoned by the Sanhedrin. I pray that he would see Jesus standing and waiting for him and that God would allow him to fall asleep before the execution is carried out.

What breaks my heart is the mention of their children. What has happened to them? The mom is serving a life sentence and the dad is about to be hanged.

You must have missed the part where it says the mother was given a life sentence, but she was released in October 2010 anyway.

You are correct. I did miss it. My bad. Thanks (seriously) for pointing it out.

Originally posted by groingrinder
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Good observation. Are you from the Clan MacIntyre? Nice avatar too.

From a sub-sept of Clan MacIntyre, on my "white side".

Originally posted by 1ibl2ibs
One of the earliest martyr on record (Stephen)...if not the first Christian martyr, didn't stay awake to participate in the suffering. The fact that he stood for Christ was enough for Christ to stand for him. Pain and suffering isn't a requirement.

The narrative states that he "fell asleep" at the time of his death. It is a literary device denoting the fact that he had now actually died.

There is no reason to believe that he didn't experience his own stoning, nor that God rescued him from suffering. There is no rule that one must suffer to be a matyr, but in suffering a painful death, the martyr is even closer to Christ and the Sacrifice on Calvary.

reply to post by AntoniusBlock

The Iranians are monsters;

Mind your tongue. No in fact, never mind...Catholics are catholics after all...

there can be no doubt about that.

Let there be no doubt that the Catholics systematically abuse their children. Let there be no doubt that the Vatican launders money for criminal organizations. Let there be no doubt that it was the Catholics who went on crusades and inquisitions. Your talk is cheap, that's why your actions give you away.

As a Catholic, I understand the danger that Islam poses to the western world, a danger which is growing and spreading into Europe.

And as someone who has observed the children of fanatic Catholics suffer, as someone who has helped these kids past some hurdles, I can tell you that you are FULL OF IT. "spreading into Europe". Bull. It is a fear tactic to swell up the opposing side of the spectrum full of fearful people, and wouldn't the Catholics happen to be the biggest group on the other side of the spectrum.

What is it, are you catholics running short on non-taxable donations that run in the billions every year?

This man's death for Christ is being manipulated by secularist and Godless elites to garner support for an unjust war

What a bunch of hogwash. First and foremost the person in question is an advocate of secularism, he does not want his child to be instilled with state propaganda/religion. That is SECULARISM. The other tripe you wrote about godless elites and whatnot...just disturbing.

We need to be more discerning when it comes to these stories.

Catholics are one of the least discerning people I've had the displeasure to meet.

The Muslim religion is one which spreads itself via violence.

Ah there we go again, the Catholic know it all this time. Your statement is ironic because Catholics slaughtered hundreds of millions of human beings before there were even automatic weapons. Reloading took minutes. Yet Catholics under the order of the pope, killed HUNDREDS OF MILLION people.

Originally posted by AntoniusBlock

Originally posted by 1ibl2ibs
One of the earliest martyr on record (Stephen)...if not the first Christian martyr, didn't stay awake to participate in the suffering. The fact that he stood for Christ was enough for Christ to stand for him. Pain and suffering isn't a requirement.

The narrative states that he "fell asleep" at the time of his death. It is a literary device denoting the fact that he had now actually died.

There is no reason to believe that he didn't experience his own stoning, nor that God rescued him from suffering. There is no rule that one must suffer to be a matyr, but in suffering a painful death, the martyr is even closer to Christ and the Sacrifice on Calvary.

edit on 23-2-2012 by AntoniusBlock because: (no reason given)

At this point we are debating semantics (is Stephen falling asleep literary or literal?), but there is no reason to believe that he DID experience his own stoning, either.

Well there you have it, more proof of people who hate Jesus Christ before they hated you or this man in Iran.

Also Iran lives by the sword so even though I do not want war over there.The old famous bible scripture says "Those who live by the sword shall die by the sword."

ilsamic and everyone should read this:
www.canadafreepress.com...

reply to post by InfoKartel


I'm not going to argue with you over the recent scandals in the Church. The Gospels tell of the wheat and chaff present in the Barque of Peter, and, as a traditionalist, I know that the filth which has come to light in the recent history of the Church is due to its own apostasy and acceptance of liberalism from the time of the Second Vatican Council onward. There is no excuse for sexual abuse and I find it absolutely abhorrent, especially within the Church.

That being said, the rest of your rhetoric is cliched and mostly lacking in substance. You've known Catholics and you have disliked them and what they do to their children. Ok. That really doesn't present a defensible argument.

Originally posted by purplemer

These days everyday there are stories in the news about Iran. Why becuase the banking elite want to bomb it back into the stoneage. No other reason.

That wouldn't take very many bombs. It's almost anti-climactic. If that were true the reason, it would be a waste of effort. What good would a stone-age bank be?

Originally posted by Mister_Bit
Well you said it...

It sucks BUT it is their country, their laws and rules and I'm sure he knew the rules, so why why why would you admit to this knowing what is likely to happen to you?

To die in Jesus' name will be greatly rewarded. Not to mention, this is a great testimony from this man, that no matter who you are or at what cost are you going to tell me who to worship. At any rate, you wouldn't have to threaten anyone with death for a true god of love and charity. It would come natural. The fact that you have to bully someone into worshipping your god means that your god must be a heathen and not worthy of worship.

In my opinion, even Iran needs to modify their laws. Not because I don't believe they have every right to make their own rules and therefore, their own punishments...but because this man's act didn't cause any injury to another person. If this man had killed someone...I feel Iran has every right to put him to death. But for something like changing religion, or even preaching, the "guilty" party should be given the option of being sent out of the country and never return...or death. Banish the person if they break your laws and refuse to obey.

But on the other hand, this should prove to everyone that given the chance...and following the same "laws" Iran now follows, they would put all us Americans to death in a heart-beat. If they could simply press a button and make every non-Muslim die...don't we all realize they would? And if you understand that logic, them being allowed to have a nuke is pretty damn close to them having such a button.

So...what do you do with a country full of homicidal, religious nut cases that are building nukes? While I hate the obvious (or easy) answer...I really don't know of a good answer. But the answer can't be to allow a maniac to have the power to do what they obviously want to.

Originally posted by InfoKartel
Catholics slaughtered hundreds of millions of human beings before there were even automatic weapons. Reloading took minutes. Yet Catholics under the order of the pope, killed HUNDREDS OF MILLION people.

I won't bother responding to the rest of your post ... but this just begs for someone to cyberslap you with a response. The Catholic church has killed HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of people? The current numbers of those killed by the both the Protestants and Catholics ... all those hundreds and hundreds of years ago now stands to be estimated at around 10,000 during the dark ages. As for how many died during the Crusades (again .. hundreds and hundreds of years ago) ... it is completely unknown, but reasonable estimates range from 200,000 to one million people.

Originally posted by rhazer

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by rhazer

 

Quran search

Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But God knoweth, and ye know not. (2:216)

But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. (9:5)

Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book (Christians and Jews), until they pay the jizya [tribute] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (9:29).

More verses that show Irans government / judicial has perverted Islam -

“Let there be no compulsion in religion” (2:256a).

What does the Hadith and Muhammad have to say?

When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to [accept] Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them. ... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them.[12]

Conclusion -
Join Islam and live
Refuse to join and pay extortion to continue to live
Refuse to do either, you die.

Amazing that the Quran is overrode by Muhammad. So much for that can't be forced to become Islam.

edit on 23-2-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

Bravo, you proved my point, This is ALL in the course of Battle.

Yes, it is. It also provides the justification for engaging in those battles, right there in the text.. Paraphrased, that justification is "fight non-muslims until they believe, or until they pay extortion. In any event, go to war against them and fight them until they are subdued and subservient, whether living or dead makes no difference".

THERE is some context for you.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


At least they can not say his Children did not have a Christian Father, so I guess they may be allowed to choose a faith other than Islam ... unless they decide any Muslim ancestory in your family tree doesn't allow you freedom of religious belief.

Sept-30th 2011 ... AI doesn't yet have an update on Yousef

Amnesty International has urged the Iranian authorities to release a Christian pastor at risk of execution for “apostasy” for refusing to renounce his religion.

Yousef Nadarkhani, whose trial ended yesterday, is facing a possible death sentence if convicted, despite the fact that “apostasy” is not criminalized in Iranian law.
www.amnesty.org...

The Washington post reports this around the same date:
Just days after Iran released two Americans accused of spying, an Iranian court has upheld the apostasy conviction and execution sentence of Christian Pastor Youcef Nadarkhani.
The 11th branch of Iran’s Gilan Provincial Court has determined that Nadarkhani has Islamic ancestry and therefore must recant his faith in Jesus Christ. Iran’s supreme court had previously ruled that the trial court must determine if Youcef had been a Muslim before converting to Christianity.
However, the judges, acting like terrorists with a hostage, demanded that he recant his faith in Christ before even taking evidence. The judges stated that even though the judgment they have made is against the current Iranian and international laws, they have to uphold the previous decision of the 27th Branch of the Supreme Court in Qom.

His attorney, a brave Muslim who has been senteenced to nine years in prison and banned from practicing law by the Iranian government.

www.washingtonpost.com... tml

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by InfoKartel
Catholics slaughtered hundreds of millions of human beings before there were even automatic weapons. Reloading took minutes. Yet Catholics under the order of the pope, killed HUNDREDS OF MILLION people.

I won't bother responding to the rest of your post ... but this just begs for someone to cyberslap you with a response. The Catholic church has killed HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of people? The current numbers of those killed by the both the Protestants and Catholics ... all those hundreds and hundreds of years ago now stands to be estimated at around 10,000 during the dark ages. As for how many died during the Crusades (again .. hundreds and hundreds of years ago) ... it is completely unknown, but reasonable estimates range from 200,000 to one million people.

Exactly. Also, few deaths have come at the hands of the Church itself. For the majority of the last two thousand years, Europe was entirely Catholic, save for the furthest reaches of the continent which remained pagan. Anything done by secular government, even if the government themselves espoused Catholicism, has been attributed to the Church itself, whether the Church supported said actions or not.

More thoughts on why this is coming to light right now.

Back on December 15th, Ayatollah Sadegh Larijani (whose considering a run for President in 2013 by the way) told the presiding judge to do nothing for one year, but all of a sudden it's an issue again? Why is that?

UPDATE 12/15/2011 Youcef’s local attorney in Rasht was informed that the head of the Iranian judiciary, Ayatollah Sadegh Larijani, has ordered the presiding judge over the trial in Rasht, Mr. Ghazi Kashani to do nothing for one year. The order was not to issue a verdict and hold Youcef in prison. They were told to use whatever means necessary to cause him to recant and return to Islam. They hope that in a year his case will fade from world interest so that they can do what they want with him. We ask that you would pray for this situation. Ask the Heavenly Father to work his perfect will for Youcef, provide for his family and working salvation in the lives of many in Iran. Source: PresentTruth Ministries

genebrooks.blogspot.com...

For starters, Larijani has an issue with Ahmadinejad. Secondly, Ahmadinejad has an issue with both Larijani and Khamenei. Khamenei holds the key to the pastor's life, as it has now been handed to him to make the final decision whether or not to execute this pastor and to make the FINAL decision.

Could Ahmadinejad be pushing this forward to force Khamenei's hand in an effort to turn the people of Iran against him right before the elections?

One of the issues that Khamenei and Ahmadinejad have with each other is the ISLAMIC SCHOOL OF THOUGHT. Khamenei wants to keep the current school of thought in place, while Ahmadinejad is pushing for a new IRAN SCHOOL OF THOUGHT revolving around the teachings of the HAGHANI SEMINARY.

What does the Haghani Seminary teach?

It was originally conceived in a reform effort to strengthen the weight of philosophy in the hawza curriculum. To this effect, Allameh Tabatabai was commissioned to write two introductory works, which he completed in 1970 (Bidayat al-Hikmah) and 1975 (Nikhayat al-Hikmah). Today, the school trains clerics with both a traditional and modern curriculum, including a secular education in science, medicine, politics, and Western/non-Islamic philosophy.

Ayatollah Mohammad Taghi Mesbah Yazdi (The founder of Haghani School, is President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's ideological mentor and spiritual guide)

en.wikipedia.org...

Wait, wasn't the pastor pushing for secular education too?

What else makes Khamenei resent Ahmadinejad for pushing this new school of thought?

According to journalist Tim Rutten "the Haghani is a particularly aggressive school of radical Shiite Islam which lives in expectation of the imminent coming of the Mahdi, a kind of Islamic messiah, who will bring peace and justice -- along with universal Islamic rule -- to the entire world. ... Members ... of this school believe they must act to speed the Mahdi's coming."

So, yes, even though Khamenei believes in the Mahdi, he's tired of Ahmadinejad so publicly stating so. He thinks Ahmadinejad is the reason the U.S. finds them to be a bunch of religious fanatics because of his religious rants in public.

As news has been released that Khamenei's camp is disqualifying Ahmadinejad supporters right and left from running for the parliament on March 2nd, could Ahmadinejad be pushing the pastor's predicament into the limelight as revenge? Or maybe to get other people to push his new school of thought before elections?