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IRAN - Final Verdict for Christian Pastor - DEATH

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posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 07:41 AM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


deflection by not addressing my points at all and then calling me on deflection...nice.....troll much?




posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 07:44 AM
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Originally posted by anarky1965
The Christian Church killed far more "heretics" during the Inquisition than any other religion.


Irrelevant. Iran of today is the topic, not Spain of 400 or 500 years ago. Of course, if you insist on bringing history into it, we can go all the way back to the Battle of Badr, and the underlying cause of the Inquisition as well, if you like. Who do you think taught the Christians of al-Andalus to act like that to begin with?



As a Christian, this man is held by biblical mandates that expressly state that they are to obey the kings and leaders over them.


Yup. Who do Christians acknowledge as their ultimate king? Who do you listen more closely to - the King or his underlings?



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 07:47 AM
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Originally posted by casenately
reply to post by nenothtu
 


deflection by not addressing my points at all and then calling me on deflection...nice.....troll much?


You had no points relevant to the topic of the thread. that is called "deflection". Furthermore, none of your points was valid, nor did they address the statement. That is called a "non-sequitur" - meaning it "doesn't follow".

Non-sequiturs are often introduced for purposes of deflection.

I call 'em like I see 'em.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 07:47 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


so you are a deeply entrenched in Christianity, I see why you want to make this into a Christian blight thing. Really it is about a civil war being kept under wraps by a regime out to crush the democratic movement. Fact is he was arrested for protesting, not for being Christian. There are plenty of them probably at mass right now in Iran praying for him.

The truth speaks volumes by itself. You go ahead and fill your little thread with all the BS you want. We have seen the light though.

don't use him to push an agenda. He is a victim of abusive government. Not an evil religion.
Religion has been made evil by evil governments maybe. not the other way around.


flame on trolls...



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 07:50 AM
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Originally posted by casenately
so you are a deeply entrenched in Christianity,

Deflection and untrue. Obviously you don't know my posting history.

You go ahead and fill your little thread with all the BS you want.

My 'little head' can read .. and it reads the verdict ... GUILTY OF APOSTASY.

We have seen the light though.

Again with the 'we' ... you have a troll in your pocket or something?



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 08:03 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 

I did not deflect from the truth at all. I simply stated that the Christian Church has been as guilty if not more so than any other religion in persecuting non-believers. This does not distract from your OP but does add an element to it, rather than leaving the thread as biased as it was originally posted. The man lives in Iran, and is held by Islamic law, not Christian law. Yes, that statement is attributed to Jesus. It was written down many years after his death by someone else and as such is unproven.
Titus 3:1 "Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work."
I Peter 2:13-15 "Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men." Sounds like he should have read his Bible and followed it as well. He was subject to the laws of the nation in which he resided. Case closed for me.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by casenately

YES AND THAT DOESNT CHANGE THAT THOSE CHARGES WERE MADE UP AND FALSE. WHY REPEAT THEM?


Because he is facing execution on them? That's a pretty good reason - and on topic, too!




THEY ARE DYING! PEOPLE ARE BEING KILLED ON BOTH ENDS FOR POLITICAL REASONS, SEEMS LIKE A CIVIL WAR TO ME.


In Iran? Are we perhaps generalizing, and getting our muslims all mixed up? Is you caps-lock stuck or something?




NEITHER WILL YOUR ADDING NOTHING TO THE CONVERSATION. AND INTERNATIONAL OPINION IS WHAT HAS OVERTURNES HIS MANY EXECUTION DATES.


It may be that I am "adding nothing", but at least neither am I taking anything away and trying desperately to sweep it under the rug. Yes, I think your caps-lock key IS stuck!



YOU ARE NOT A GOOD HUMAN AS FAR AS I CAN TELL.


Luckily, I've never had aspirations to be a "good human".



NO, LIFE IS YOUR PUNISHMENT.


???? care to tell me what I'm charged with before convicting me and sentencing me to live, Your Honor? Just so you know, there are people on this planet who will appeal that sentencing. they feel it's not strict enough, in my case.



THAT CHARGE IS NOT RELEVANT OR IMPORTANT. JUST LIKE THE RAPE CHARGES AND THE ZIONISM CHARGES. ARE THEY IMPORTANT TOO? OR DO YOU PICK AND CHOOSE SO AS TO CATER TO YOUR CHRISTIAN AUDIENCES AT HOME.


No, I "pick and choose" based upon relevance. Facing execution upon conviction of a charge most certainly makes the charge one is to be executed over "relevant". Disputing it in caps will not make your argument any more valid, it will only make it "louder". Are you foaming at the fingers yet? The rape and zionism charges are NOT important - he's not being executed for being convicted of them.



So you think the Salem witch trials were about witchcraft or a bunch of girls being dumbasses that played on people's fears. If not so you might think they had a valid case against those evil witches.


1600's New England is irrelevant to 2012 Iran.


.GOT IT??


maybe some WD-40 sprayed on your keyboard will help that stuck key...



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 08:08 AM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 



Because he is facing execution on them?


He won't for long. No way in hell they will execute him now.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 08:12 AM
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This is the kind of thing that leads me to seriously doubt my opposition against the strike on Iran nuclear facilities.
Fundamentalist theocracy and nuclear weapons is a scary combination.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 08:13 AM
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Unprecedented Death Sentence for Christian Pastor on Charge of Apostasy

'I am resolute in my faith and Christianity and have no wish to recant.'

Wiki - Back story

Iranian Supreme Court Ruling - Apostasy Death Sentence





English - unoffical translation



PressTV Article
Question - How many people in Iran who are accused of being a security risk, a Zionist, multiple counts of Rape, then convicted and sentenced to death, has that verdict set aside by their Supreme Court? Iran routinely plays international politics when it comes to death sentences for bogus reasons. To save face they back off until it calms down and goes forward with it when no one is looking.

Human Rights Watch - Iran: Christian Pastor Faces Execution for ‘Apostasy’

His wife was arrested for Apostasy as well and imprisoned.
Wiki - Back story

Initial arrest

Nadarkhani was first imprisoned in December 2006, on the charges of apostasy from and evangelism to Muslims. He was released two weeks later, without being charged.[8]

In 2009, Nadarkhani discovered a recent change in Iranian educational policy that forced all students, including his children, to read from the Qur'an. After he heard about this change, he went to the school and protested, based on the fact that the Iranian constitution guarantees freedom to practice religion. His protest was reported to the police, who arrested him and placed him before a tribunal on October 12, 2009, on charges of protesting.[8][9]

On June 18th, 2010 Nadarkhani's wife was arrested and charged with apostasy. She was sentenced to life imprisonment, and placed in prison in Lakan, Iran, which is just south of their hometown of Rasht.[8][10] She was released in October 2010.[11]


Iranian Penal Code - Apostasy

The new Penal Code was approved in principal by the Iranian parliament on September 9th 2008, and is now being reviewed before it is sent back to parliament for the second round of voting by the majority conservative parliament. In final stage the Guardian Council will have to give its consent after which it will then become law.

Article 225 of this new penal code reads:

Article 225-1 Any Muslim who clearly announces that he/she has left Islam and declares blasphemy is an Apostate.

Article 225-2: Serious and earnest intention is the condition for certainty in apostasy. Therefore, if the accused claims that his/her statement had been made with reluctance or ignorance, or in error, or while drunk, or through a slip of the tongue or without understanding the meaning of the words, or repeating words of others; or his/her real intentions had been something else, he/she is not considered an apostate and his/her claim could be heard and justified.

Article 225-3: There are two kinds of apostates: innate (Fetri) and parental (Melli).

Article 225-4: Innate Apostate is someone whose parent (at least one) was a Muslim at the time of conception, and who declares him/herself a Muslim after the age of maturity, and leaves Islam afterwards.

Article 225-5: Parental Apostate is one whose parents (both) had been non-Muslims at the time of conception, and who has become a Muslim after the age of maturity, and later leaves Islam and returns to blasphemy.

Article 225-6: If someone has at least one Muslim parent at the time of conception but after the age of maturity, without pretending to be a Muslim, chooses blasphemy is considered a Parental Apostate.

Article 225-7: Punishment for an Innate Apostate is death.

Article 225-8: Punishment for a Parental Apostate is death, but after the final sentencing for three days he/she would be guided to the right path and encouraged to recant his/her belief and if he/she refused, the death penalty would be carried out.

Article 225-9: In the case of a Parental Apostate, whenever there appears to be a possibility of recanting, sufficient time would be provided.

Article 225-10: Punishment for women, whether Innate or Parental, is life imprisonment and during the sentence, under the guidance of the court, hardship will be exercised on her, and she will be guided to the right path and encouraged to recant, and if she recants she will be freed immediately.

Note: The condition of hardship will be determined according to the religious laws.

Article 225-11: Whoever claims to be a Prophet is sentenced to death, and any Muslim who invents a heresy in the religion and creates a sect based on that which is contrary to the obligations and necessities of Islam, is considered an apostate.

Article 225-12: Any Muslim who deals with witchcraft and promotes it as a profession or sect in the community is sentenced to death.

Article 225-13: Assistance to the crimes in this chapter, in case there is no other punishment assigned to it by law, is punishable by up to 74 lashes in proportion with the crime and the criminal.

edit on 23-2-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-2-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-2-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 08:15 AM
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Originally posted by anarky1965
the Christian Church has been as guilty if not more so than any other religion in persecuting non-believers.

You'll have to prove that. Considering that the only reason Islam is in so called 'Islamic countries' is because it spread at the point of a blood soaked sword .... good luck with that. Islam isn't innocent. Neither is Christianity of course, but to say 'as guilty if not more so than any other religion' when talking about Christianity ... you'll have to prove that one.

Case closed for me.

I think that's rather cold hearted ... but whatever ...



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 08:19 AM
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Originally posted by Mister_Bit
Well you said it...

It sucks BUT it is their country, their laws and rules and I'm sure he knew the rules, so why why why would you admit to this knowing what is likely to happen to you?




Your point amounts to no more than...

Well, a paedophile thinks its ok to touch children,

Oh really, well that's ok then, carry on



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 08:21 AM
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The Iranians are monsters; there can be no doubt about that. The Muslim religion is one which spreads itself via violence. As a Catholic, I understand the danger that Islam poses to the western world, a danger which is growing and spreading into Europe.

However, this is being used as rhetoric to further the beat of the war drums, something which is absolutely despicable and abhorrent to me as a Christian. This man's death for Christ is being manipulated by secularist and Godless elites to garner support for an unjust war, a war which has as its end a state of matters which is totally antithetical to Christianity.

We need to be more discerning when it comes to these stories. We can understand that the Middle East is a land of much violence and injustice while simultaneously realizing that we cannot afford to be the world police, nor are those who push world policing doing so with the best interest of America, the West, or Christianity in mind.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by Mister_Bit
Well you said it...

It sucks BUT it is their country, their laws and rules and I'm sure he knew the rules, so why why why would you admit to this knowing what is likely to happen to you?


Actually Iranian Penal law prohibits apostasy charges / death sentences, so they are violating their own laws. The loop hole around that is in the hands of the Judge who can opt to ignore penal code and instead use Sharia. Thats the other way Iran is trying to argue themselves out of the blame because technically its not Iranian law, but religious.

ETA - Correction
Section 225 of Iranian penal law deals with apostasy
edit on 23-2-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 08:24 AM
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Jesus died for all of us. It is commendable that ONE of us wants to die for Jesus. Remember that Jesus said to turn the other cheek. He did not say bomb them into the stone age.

It is sheer hippocracy for anyone who calls themselves a Christian to call for war or violence against anyone else.
edit on 2-23-2012 by groingrinder because: Edited for clarity.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by casenately

Why not arrest the thousands of other Christians and Jews in Iran. He was a dissident. That is the difference.


He was not convicted of "being a Christian" or "being a Jew", he was convicted of apostasy - of having been a Muslim, then rejecting Islam. He could have converted to Hunduism, Jainism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Animinsm, or any number of other "isms" and the charge would be the same - it's NOT because he is a Christian.



Don't try and twist this into a religious issue like them. It makes you just as bad as them.


He's convicted under religious law, for a religious offense, and somehow religion DOESN'T enter the equation? How does the logic of that work?



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 08:26 AM
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If the death sentence is indeed carried out, I pray that he may have the experiences Stephen had before he was stoned by the Sanhedrin. I pray that he would see Jesus standing and waiting for him and that God would allow him to fall asleep before the execution is carried out.

What breaks my heart is the mention of their children. What has happened to them? The mom is serving a life sentence and the dad is about to be hanged.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 08:28 AM
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Originally posted by InfoKartel
reply to post by nenothtu
 



Because he is facing execution on them?


He won't for long. No way in hell they will execute him now.


Personally, I don't think they'll execute, either. I believe they will release him to "the west" in an effort to display how magnanimous they are, letting convicted criminals free and all, and try to gain brownie points on that act.

In all that, they will try to downplay the fact that he was convicted of a religious offense and sentenced to die.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 08:34 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


"Convert guilty of security crimes: Iran" (October 1, 2011)


The Iranian official added that Nadar-Khani is not a prisoner of conscience and his crime is not related to his religion “because in our country no one is executed for his faith but he (Nadar-Khani) is a Zionist and has committed security crimes.”



“This Islamic country (Iran) does not punish [those] choosing another religion rather it is God [that will reprimand],” Fars News Agency quoted Rezvani as saying.



Iran has refuted allegations of violating human rights, stressing that Nadar-Khani has a history of committing violent crimes and that he did not receive the death penalty for religious beliefs.


www.presstv.com...

Yep, when all else fails and you can't get other charges to stick, go for APOSTASY anyway! Apparently, Iran was executing people for apostasy long before they actually made it into law in 2008, so this wouldn't be considered out of the ordinary over there to break your own law on who is considered an apostate or not.

I'm guessing they questioned whether or not they could make him an apostate under their current law, but couldn't come up with anything better, so this was the closest they could come.

edit on 23-2-2012 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 08:34 AM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


Good observation. Are you from the Clan MacIntyre? Nice avatar too.



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