"This Is Why There Are No Jobs In America", by Porter Stansberry

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by AnarchoCapitalist

 

The fringe belief is that a democratic society with hundreds of millions of people can operate without taxes.
Most people know where their roads and schools come from, and most people like the idea of a government protecting them from people who would do them harm.

A star to you.

The "road" argument comes up in threads like this once in a while, and not once I heard a coherent answer from the fringe people. Same about fire fighters, or nurse in your school. People have created a fairy world in their heads where everything just clicks, roads pave themselves, libraries magically fill up with books and fires automatically extinguish their own flames.

La la land, anarcho-caps.

The fairy tale is that public education works.

Detroit’s 'shocking' 47 percent illiteracy rate
theweek.com...

California has a 23 percent illiteracy rate over-all
www.dispatch.com...

1 in 4 drop out of CA high schools because they are so bad:
articles.latimes.com...


As for your road arguments:

Walter Block earned his PhD in Economics at Columbia University, and lectures here on the privatization of roads.


The Privatization of Roads and Highways, by Walter Block
mises.org...

As for your healthcare:

Access to Medical Care - Jane Orient, M.D. Columbia University


America Needs Socialized Medicine? Krugman Would Crush the Best of Medical Care, by Jane Orient
www.thefreemanonline.org...




BOTTOM LINE - IF THERE IS A MARKET NEED FOR A SERVICE OR GOOD, SOMEONE WILL CREATE THAT SERVICE OR GOOD.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


But then you expect what sort of labor conditions here? Certainly not Christian ones...(unless we're talking the older Christian value system that allowed for slavery)...

The problem is Greed.

Just the other day on Fox News they ran a story about how a preventative drug for children with Lymphoma or some other type of cancer was falling into mass shortages. They actually said that the shortage was the fault of the government for allowing generics onto the market, which meant that the profit motive for the pharmaceutical company had all dried up.

Ask yourself this question: How greedy do you have to be to put your foot down and hault production on a cancer-fighting drug for children because you're not making profits? By you, I'm of course referring to the CEOs who do very little in the way of R and D at the pharma companies. Also, part of this question is to keep in mind that PROFIT is what's left over...what's left over after you pay your overhead, your employees, the scientists and researchers doing studies on the drug and developing it. After all those bills for electricity and HR and insurance and water and so forth are paid and after every single employee is paid, the only thing left over is the PROFIT.

So what Fox News was telling us is that Greedy CEOs at pharmaceutical companies are denying cancer-fighting drugs to children because competition against their brand-name monopoly has driven down costs for the consumer through generics, which does not allow for an obscene accumulation of wealth after all bills are paid.

That was a very honest story for Fox to tell, even though they spun the # out of it - they still can't fight the underlying meaning if you're looking for it.

Originally posted by Sphota
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

But then you expect what sort of labor conditions here? Certainly not Christian ones...(unless we're talking the older Christian value system that allowed for slavery)...

The problem is Greed.

Just the other day on Fox News they ran a story about how a preventative drug for children with Lymphoma or some other type of cancer was falling into mass shortages. They actually said that the shortage was the fault of the government for allowing generics onto the market, which meant that the profit motive for the pharmaceutical company had all dried up.

Ask yourself this question: How greedy do you have to be to put your foot down and hault production on a cancer-fighting drug for children because you're not making profits? By you, I'm of course referring to the CEOs who do very little in the way of R and D at the pharma companies. Also, part of this question is to keep in mind that PROFIT is what's left over...what's left over after you pay your overhead, your employees, the scientists and researchers doing studies on the drug and developing it. After all those bills for electricity and HR and insurance and water and so forth are paid and after every single employee is paid, the only thing left over is the PROFIT.

So what Fox News was telling us is that Greedy CEOs at pharmaceutical companies are denying cancer-fighting drugs to children because competition against their brand-name monopoly has driven down costs for the consumer through generics, which does not allow for an obscene accumulation of wealth after all bills are paid.

That was a very honest story for Fox to tell, even though they spun the # out of it - they still can't fight the underlying meaning if you're looking for it.

First off, the Pharma industry is not denying anything to anyone - THE STATE IS.

Big Pharma has no guns. It can not stop people from selling generic knock offs. It takes armed violent men to preform that task. Which is what the State excels at.

Further, Greed is good as long as it is constrained by property rights.

I can be as greedy as I want to be, just as long as I don't violate the property rights of others. Copyright and patents are not property rights. You can not own an idea. You can not own the words you write down on paper. If someone copies them, they have not deprived you of any material resources. They have not stolen anything from you by their actions. In a world without the violently funded State, there would be no patents and no copyrights. They are entirely creatures of the State and have no basis in common law.

In fact, the greedier I am, the harder I will work, the more society will benefit from my labor.

Originally posted by AnarchoCapitalist

Originally posted by Sphota
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

But then you expect what sort of labor conditions here? Certainly not Christian ones...(unless we're talking the older Christian value system that allowed for slavery)...

The problem is Greed.

Just the other day on Fox News they ran a story about how a preventative drug for children with Lymphoma or some other type of cancer was falling into mass shortages. They actually said that the shortage was the fault of the government for allowing generics onto the market, which meant that the profit motive for the pharmaceutical company had all dried up.

Ask yourself this question: How greedy do you have to be to put your foot down and hault production on a cancer-fighting drug for children because you're not making profits? By you, I'm of course referring to the CEOs who do very little in the way of R and D at the pharma companies. Also, part of this question is to keep in mind that PROFIT is what's left over...what's left over after you pay your overhead, your employees, the scientists and researchers doing studies on the drug and developing it. After all those bills for electricity and HR and insurance and water and so forth are paid and after every single employee is paid, the only thing left over is the PROFIT.

So what Fox News was telling us is that Greedy CEOs at pharmaceutical companies are denying cancer-fighting drugs to children because competition against their brand-name monopoly has driven down costs for the consumer through generics, which does not allow for an obscene accumulation of wealth after all bills are paid.

That was a very honest story for Fox to tell, even though they spun the # out of it - they still can't fight the underlying meaning if you're looking for it.

First off, the Pharma industry is not denying anything to anyone - THE STATE IS.

Big Pharma has no guns. It can not stop people from selling generic knock offs. It takes armed violent men to preform that task. Which is what the State excels at.

Further, Greed is good as long as it is constrained by property rights.

I can be as greedy as I want to be, just as long as I don't violate the property rights of others. Copyright and patents are not property rights. You can not own an idea. You can not own the words you write down on paper. If someone copies them, they have not deprived you of any material resources. They have not stolen anything from you by their actions. In a world without the violently funded State, there would be no patents and no copyrights. They are entirely creatures of the State and have no basis in common law.

In fact, the greedier I am, the harder I will work, the more society will benefit from my labor.

edit on 2/23/2012 by AnarchoCapitalist because: (no reason given)

Wow nice spin; you are insane. Im sure glad I am not your neighbor, or in your community. Typical "lone wolf" Rambo attitude.

"im allowed to be as greedy as I want! Who cares if innocent children die of cancer?? Not my problem!"

You are truly a champion of humanity....

Originally posted by AnarchoCapitalist

Originally posted by dadgad
Most ATS'ers see Ron Paul as the solution to this problem, but I have always disagreed with. I found a piece in which Chomsky comments on it, I couldn't agree more.


It may sound nice on the surface but if you think it through, it's just a call for corporate tyranny. It takes away any barrier to corporate tyranny. But, it's all academic. The business world would never permit it to happen because it would destroy the economy. They can't live without a powerful state, and they know it.

edit on 23-2-2012 by dadgad because: (no reason given)

I would just like to respond to this Chomsky quote by pointing out that here Chomsky is essentially supporting federally controlled socialized healthcare.

Chomsky also claims he is a libertarian socialist anarchist (which to me is oxymoronic, you are either in favor of voluntarism or you are not).

I'm not sure how Chomsky squares his beliefs in anarchism while supporting a coercively imposed socialized healthcare system operated by the State (or some other group with a monopoly on healthcare).

His beliefs are confusing and make no sense to me.

Because under state controlled health care there is at least some public input, in opposition to total corporate freedom. That's why.

reply to post by AnarchoCapitalist


May I ask you something? The people that have taken control of the state, the elites that use the levers of power for their benefits, are they capitalists according to you or not?

Hilarious thread if it wasn't for the fact that such extreme right wing views are the cause of so much poverty in what is the richest nation on Earth.

It should be a cause of shame for every US citizen that a country with such wealth has soup kitchens and homeless whilst others have more wealth than they can ever spend in a 1000 lifetimes. But lo and behold, the poor and unfortunate have only themselves to blame. Wow the compassion but necessary to maintain the idiotic right wing belief system.

Capitalism on its own does not work. The capitalistic demand mechanism ONLY works for non essential goods and services. When it comes to essential goods and services it always fails miserably.

There are western countries with mixed economies that are doing very nicely but the arrogant US will never ever admit that its system is wrong and take a look beyond its own borders for a solution.

reply to post by AnarchoCapitalist

You can always find a few true and blue radicals in academia, of anarchist or any other ilk. I mean, Walter Block, bleh, same person who thinks that slavery is a good idea. Right. That's actually pretty telling, as Chomsky says that the US "libertarians" are tyrants at heart.

I read some of his book on road privatization and he does strike me as a demagogue. To even suggest that some magic improvements of road quality upon privatization will dramatically reduce the number of accidents is specious.

reply to post by Morgenstern89

Thank you for pointing that out, without it I fear it would be one of those that you mentioned.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by hawkiye
they repeat ignorant lies and rhetoric over and over and have no clue what they are talking about, they point to the banks being deregulated as proof deregulation doesn't work. They don't recognize that regulation only stifles fair competition and the banks are politically connected and regulators look the other way to protect their cronies. That's not deregulation that is fascism protecting markets for the politically connected

I think "deregulation" is a very appropriate term, I don't know why you chose to use the word "fascism". This is silly.

I spent a few years working in banking industry, so I'm hardly up to any "ignorant lies", having seen how it works. Gradual and stealthy repeal of Glass–Steagall was not "fascism", it was deregulation done in the name of "fair competition" and "free markets". It was fascinating to observe, how there was clearly public interest in having that regulation in place, and yet the "free market" thinking prevailed, fueled by little other than the enormous greed. Sad to watch.

Mortgage backed securities? One could argue that regulating those was "stifling fair competition" and "choking financial markets". But that's a load of cr@p. All these things were just time bombs placed by greedy pigs right in the foundation of out economy.

Its not a free market when only a few banks and politically connected corporations have deregulation and everyone else has tons of rules and regulations that don't allow free competition that is called fascism/socialism. They do lots of things "in the name of free markets" and fools continue to believe them... The key is it is in name only not in reality.

reply to post by averageGuy505

Today we can legitmately claim to have the majority of the planet's "new ideas" and feel we can safely outsource manufacturing to Asia. Yet, look what this has created. A country where 1% reap the benefits of our 'new economy' and the rest working for peanuts.

The reason manufacturing has gone to Asia is well defined in the OP try reading it. Also thank you for illustrating my points beautifully about ignorant fools who have never run a business repeating media and marxist rhetoric. They are why America has allowed it's government to get away with this crap. They produce nothing, THEY DON'T KNOW HISTORY, they refuse to do research, they call socialism capitalism, they repeat ignorant lies and rhetoric over and over and have no clue what they are talking about, they point to the banks being deregulated as proof deregulation doesn't work. They don't recognize that regulation only stifles fair competition and the banks are politically connected and regulators look the other way to protect their cronies. That's not deregulation that is fascism protecting markets for the politically connected.They refuse to look at the facts that we are more regulated then ever in history AND ITS NOT WORKING because it is used to protect cronies and stifle fair competition.

Then they call people crazy who are educated and well researched... Sigh!

Originally posted by hawkiye
Its not a free market when only a few banks and politically connected corporations have deregulation and everyone else has tons of rules and regulations that don't allow free competition that is called fascism/socialism. They do lots of things "in the name of free markets" and fools continue to believe them... The key is it is name only not in reality.

Oh boy, you really have a narrow view of reality. Banks STILL had regulation after the repeal. There was less of that but still. And I frankly don't see that much regulation that stifles competition, on the contrary -- anti-trust rules ensure there is competition otherwise guess what -- we really would have ONE cell phone company, Soviet style.

What does prohibit competition between Honda and Ford?

Here's the true issue when it comes to corporate tax rates, and why it's hurting non-corporate entities:



Provided by, yours truly, Tim Geithner...who by the way is gunning for Bernake's job

Just in case anyone's wondering why payroll taxes and sales taxes have gone up by so much over the past few years

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by hawkiye
Its not a free market when only a few banks and politically connected corporations have deregulation and everyone else has tons of rules and regulations that don't allow free competition that is called fascism/socialism. They do lots of things "in the name of free markets" and fools continue to believe them... The key is it is name only not in reality.

Oh boy, you really have a narrow view of reality. Banks STILL had regulation after the repeal. There was less of that but still. And I frankly don't see that much regulation that stifles competition, on the contrary -- anti-trust rules ensure there is competition otherwise guess what -- we really would have ONE cell phone company, Soviet style.

What does prohibit competition between Honda and Ford?

No I have a very full view of reality! You don't see because you are completely ignorant. When have you looked into to starting a bank? Give it some research and then tell me there is little to stifle fair competition... Sigh!

Originally posted by hawkiye
The reason manufacturing has gone to Asia is well defined in the OP try reading it.

Maybe you should try reading it yourself and see that it's really a pile of trash.

Manufacturing has gone elsewhere because there were kids in Indonesia willing to sew Nike sneakers for $2 an hour, and there were Chinese workers working in unhealthy conditions at highly polluting factories making plastic for toys etc. Yup, that's something hard to compete with.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by hawkiye
The reason manufacturing has gone to Asia is well defined in the OP try reading it.

Maybe you should try reading it yourself and see that it's really a pile of trash.

Manufacturing has gone elsewhere because there were kids in Indonesia willing to sew Nike sneakers for $2 an hour, and there were Chinese workers working in unhealthy conditions at highly polluting factories making plastic for toys etc. Yup, that's something hard to compete with.

I guess some would love to have the average citizen work 35hr shifts at 30cents/hour in return for a "free market economy"

If that's the route the US wants to take, please let me know and I'll immediately invest in Nylon. Why? Because that's what they use to produce those nets used to catch suicide jumpers who can't take those working conditions any longer.

Also, this is how the average river looks near industrial production centres in China...thanks to deregulation:



Looks lovely...deregulation ftw!!!

reply to post by MrXYZ


Thanks, I was looking for that picture, there is a thread here on ATS which posts these horrific pix of what happens in unregulated places.

Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by PaxVeritas

 

Not a straw man, an honest observation. As a rule Paul supporters whine about taxes. It's unsurprising and essentially less to do with honest criticism and more to do with ideology.

So you're saying that Ron Paul supporters have no credible reason to oppose overtaxation or the Income Tax?

That we're all just 'whining' out of some ideology like fanatics?

Smooth way to dismiss someone.

"Hey...you're Ron Paul supporters (A). Therefor you believe taxes are bad (B) so I must conclude that anti taxation is 'bad' because 'whining fringe people" think that way. (C)".

It doesn't take being a Ron Paul supporter to oppose over taxation...

Like I said, Straw Man..

reply to post by MrXYZ



Did you just imply that Free Market economic is synonymous with pollution, 'deregulation', and link a photo to a guy in a Kayak in a polluted Chinese river as an example?

Just making sure.

You CANNOT be an "Anarcho" anything, Capitalist or Syndicalist, and support STATE intervention to solve problems.

Period, end of story.

If you do, and claim to be an "Anarchist" you're a massive tool and should put down your silly black flag and rip off your bumper stickers and stand in the Unemployment line with a smile and a cup of coffee.