Is Andrew Breitbart making a Masonic gesture in this picture?

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posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 04:50 AM
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Is Andrew Breitbart making a Masonic gesture in this picture? If yes what does this gesture mean?

www.rawstory.com...

(Sorry I dont know how to add the picture)




posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 04:57 AM
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Yes it is the X from L.V.X which are known as 'god forms' These poses are used in ritual magick.

Hope that helps... you can see it half way down this page :
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posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 04:58 AM
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no



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 05:08 AM
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reply to post by Lagrimas
 


Thanks, great link as well!!!



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 05:39 AM
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reply to post by Lagrimas
 


Good find. It appears that is a form of meditation in Hermetics.
Not masonic. He sure doesn't look relaxed at all. I don't think it's working.



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 06:49 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 


Yes technically its not necessarily 'Masonic' because the lodges that teach ritual magick are the O.T.O and the golden dawn, which although are 'lodge' 'fraternity' type systems are not actually part of the Scottish Right system of Masonry and as such stand apart from normal 'Masonry' though do share a lot of symbolism.



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 08:55 AM
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reply to post by Lagrimas
 


Yes, It's close to the way we pray in the Scottish Rite, but ours is left over right. It's to emulate a shepherd holding a lost sheep. Are you involved in either group?



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 09:03 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 


Fingers look a bit too tense for the sign of the good shepherd, if you ask me. When I do that sign, my fingers certainly don't go above my shoulder blades, nor extend out from my body like that. Then again, who knows what the moments immediately before or after that snapshot were?



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 09:11 AM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 


I agree that its hardly a good rendition of the pose, I find it amusing that you Masons think its a good shepherd sign, It seems like you Masons really do, do 'esoteric' things while being fed false information as to the meanings behind them, almost as if you are sidelined in to doing things you don't realise you are doing... does this worry you at all?



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 09:14 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 


I am in the process of joining the O.T.O. in england yes. I have had my interview which I passed, I have therefore 1 sponsor, and I am going to be getting another sponsor in the near future, at gnostic mass... then I will have my minerval initiation in London. Its been quite a lot of studying thelema to get there but yarr Im nearly there.



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 09:19 AM
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Originally posted by Lagrimas
I agree that its hardly a good rendition of the pose, I find it amusing that you Masons think its a good shepherd sign, It seems like you Masons really do, do 'esoteric' things while being fed false information as to the meanings behind them, almost as if you are sidelined in to doing things you don't realise you are doing... does this worry you at all?
Says the guy about to join the O.T.O...



Haven't you realized that symbols only mean what you want them to mean? The only real power they hold is in your own head.

Traditionally, we refer to that as the sign of the good shepherd. Personally, I feel it is an allusion to the cross of St. Andrew.
edit on 2012.2.22 by JoshNorton because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 09:28 AM
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reply to post by Lagrimas
 


Let me know how you get on with that, I was going to join the one near the borders but changed my mind due to work commitments at the time, might get back in touch with them at some point though.



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by Lagrimas
reply to post by JoshNorton
 


I agree that its hardly a good rendition of the pose, I find it amusing that you Masons think its a good shepherd sign, It seems like you Masons really do, do 'esoteric' things while being fed false information as to the meanings behind them, almost as if you are sidelined in to doing things you don't realise you are doing... does this worry you at all?


should you ever go as far a joining masonry and you find out the whole ugly truth, please get back with me and we will laugh quite a bit about your post here.

Enjoy the OTO. From What I understand, it's lessons are very close to the rest of the true mystery schools.



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton
reply to post by network dude
 


Fingers look a bit too tense for the sign of the good shepherd, if you ask me. When I do that sign, my fingers certainly don't go above my shoulder blades, nor extend out from my body like that. Then again, who knows what the moments immediately before or after that snapshot were?


Poor guy looks like he needs a bit of alone time in the bathroom.



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 12:13 PM
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Not to get off topic, but I'm not sure where to post this as I am too new to start a thread. I saw this pic this morning on the JCP Facebook page which is supposed to be an advertisement for free shipping, but that's not what I get out of it when I look at it. Maybe one of you who is able, can start a thread if you find it interesting. First of all, the checkerboard floor caught my eye. Can someone tell me what kind of plane that is? I can't zoom in on the map, but it looks like the Australia, New Guinea area. The pic is titled "Flee February", which just seems weird. Do you think there is something more to this than just free shipping?


edit on 22-2-2012 by bottlenoze because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 12:16 PM
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i think he's doing the macarena.



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 05:57 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 


Fair enough... We can laugh about these things quite easily for sure, the whole process is fun and funny imho.

I take the knowledge seriously but not too seriously and Im happy to be getting in a mystery school, I dont feel its going to be ugly, I dont see anything ugly about interesting and beautiful metaphors or active meditation, but maybe Ill find out something ugly on my journey...



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 05:59 PM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 


I have my own reasons for an interest in Magick and Thelema and those have to do (mainly) with vocabulary and symbology. I would have thought that knowing the true or maybe I should say 'original' symbolism behind something is important. I asked a question and you replied basically with 'nope not at al'l it doesnt bother you, why should it? I was just wondering if it did. Thanks for the answer.

I believe the god pose is the X LVX pose and not a good shephard, but hey ho, If you feel that symbols only exist in your head than so be it...



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 05:55 AM
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Originally posted by Lagrimas
I have my own reasons for an interest in Magick and Thelema and those have to do (mainly) with vocabulary and symbology. I would have thought that knowing the true or maybe I should say 'original' symbolism behind something is important. I asked a question and you replied basically with 'nope not at al'l it doesnt bother you, why should it? I was just wondering if it did. Thanks for the answer.

I believe the god pose is the X LVX pose and not a good shephard, but hey ho, If you feel that symbols only exist in your head than so be it...
Well, I can only speak from my own experience, both with chaos magick and Masonry, as well as a fairly extensive familiarity with modern philosophers' takes on things like this (for this argument in particular, Lacan comes to mind...) While I'm not as formally familiar with Spare's particular take on sigil magick, I did come to it through Morrison's essay, and while I haven't read much Hine, Patrick Dunn's "Postmodern Magick" is a good read.

My take is that all symbols, including words, only have meaning to you. I mean, you can go back to Plato or Aristotle (I forget which...) and the idea of ideal or archetypal representations of words.... I say tree, you picture a tree in your head. It will be a different tree than the one I picture in my head. There is no one idealized tree that is in everyone's head.

Morrison goes on for a bit in Pop Magick about corporate logos being sigils, but I disagree. A sigil has power to me when I give it power. If someone else makes a sigil, I can't power their sigil because I don't know their will—and I don't know what personal meaning THEY have ascribed to the symbol. If their sigil is meaningless to me, then there's no way my will can strengthen it for their purposes.

Does that make any sense?



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 09:24 PM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton
My take is that all symbols, including words, only have meaning to you. I mean, you can go back to Plato or Aristotle (I forget which...) and the idea of ideal or archetypal representations of words.... I say tree, you picture a tree in your head. It will be a different tree than the one I picture in my head. There is no one idealized tree that is in everyone's head.

Morrison goes on for a bit in Pop Magick about corporate logos being sigils, but I disagree. A sigil has power to me when I give it power. If someone else makes a sigil, I can't power their sigil because I don't know their will—and I don't know what personal meaning THEY have ascribed to the symbol. If their sigil is meaningless to me, then there's no way my will can strengthen it for their purposes.

Does that make any sense?



I'm not certain I agree with you on this point. It seems to me like your idea is based on a notion of intention. If I were to make some kind of amulet with a sigil on it, for example, you could not 'strengthen it for my purposes' as you say, because you don't know my intention. (Please do correct me if I'm misinterpreting this)

The point where we would come into agreement is that I believe it would possibly have more power / effect if you understood and shared my intention.

However, some see focus and / or attention of any sort as a kind of energy generating or directing exercise. Energy follows focus. Crowley, for example, claimed that it was not necessary for a participant in sex magick to know the purpose of the ritual, or even to know they are participating in such!.

Or an analogy: The utility company does not know, specifically, what you are using electricity for in your home. They don't need to know this in order to send you power. As long as you have the proper equipment to receive the power they are sending, you can use this power for anything you want. You are the one who chooses the outcome, independent of their will (aside from their will to give you attention / focus/ energy).

Symbols act as a focal point regardless of whether someone understands their meaning. Sometimes even more so, as the mysterious and mis-understood can be alluring and emotionally provocative.

I suppose in my (admittedly imperfect) utilities analogy, the symbol is acting like a "receiver."



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