The Neolithic village of Cayonu - 8800 BCE

fantastic post hanslune
i really enjoyed the figurine looks to me like two people existing as one
and thank you especially for the sources
this was an amazing period of time
a real turning point for people going from a nomadic lifestyle not knowing where you were getting your next meal to being able to settle and develop social structure and culture

what i wouldnt give to see what happened to these people
were they invaded and easily displaced due to their trusting nature?
did they over work the land or consume resources faster than they could accumulate them?
did it fall from within over time due to a developing social order?
was it something as simple as a natural disaster?

seems the world would be a much better place today had these people survived and their culture continued along the same path

reply to post by sirhumperdink


It isn't the archaeological record but I'll speculate. I would suspect there ancestors, rural rubes as it were ,moved at some point to the cities that formed later.

AFAIK no genetic investigation has been done on the human remains found there.

Originally posted by Hanslune
Well you are a demanding one, did I once almost marry you long ago?

lol

Haha...I'm far too terrifying to invoke proposals of marriage.

Originally posted by Hanslune
So I would say yes, they were first hunted then domesticated - were you thinking of the tabu against pork eating

Kind of. There does seem to be a natural, hemispherical divide between the pig eaters and none pig eaters, or more specifically, it is healthy to eat it in temperate zones, not so in warmer climates. The symbology of the pig is more apparent in the northern hemisphere, until it gets superceded by the movements of peoples from the East into the North-West. Or that is my impression anyway. Sooo...perhaps they domesticated them and then as a result found what fine waste disposal units they were, causing the spread of disease through eating of that meat, which subsequently led to the taboo, the taboo then spread to areas where there was no such risk...but I am probably veering into anthropology again...maybe.

And of course, the wild variety, is a most ferocious beast...so the glory of the hunt, I suppose is another form of veneration anyway...which would be lost through the ease of domestication anyway...hmmm?

reply to post by Biliverdin


Howdy

Interesting but outside my area of knowledge; but I have noted that some people just don't like pork, I've seen that in both Chinese and Germans (big cultural pork eaters) I would suspect that at some point in history someone who didn't like pork got in power and but the kibosh on it. Since religions tend to reflect the cultures they come from I suspect it might have come from that.

Primitive minds work in primitive comparisons. Pigs scavenge corpses, therefore they are not clean.

Originally posted by DangerDeath
Primitive minds work in primitive comparisons. Pigs scavenge corpses, therefore they are not clean.

True, but so do dogs (eat the dead), and while not a common food in the Middle east and Europe, it is considered fine fair in parts of Asia and in pre-columbian Americas. In Judaism and Islam they are considered unclean of course - so eating dogs and pigs (or not) may have developed independently in a number of places.

Originally posted by DangerDeath
Primitive minds work in primitive comparisons. Pigs scavenge corpses, therefore they are not clean.

Pigs scavenge everything, will eat anything. Which is why they are almost essential to the small holder, because junk goes in, and out comes nutrient rich fertiliser.

Hanslune, the Germans were forest dwellers, originally, hence they would have eaten and hunted the wild variety. Killing your first boar, if it didn't kill you first, was in many forest cultures a rite of passage.

If you have eaten wild boar it is quite different in taste to the domesticated variety. I don't particularly like farm-raised pork, except cured and smoked as bacon, or heavily seasoned as sausages...but boar is much more acceptable to my palate, much like most game, it is naturally fragrant and spicey.

In the UK the demarcation between pig symbology and it's absence is particularly apparent. And, possibly indicates a Roman influence.

Originally posted by baalbuster

Originally posted by Hanslune

Originally posted by baalbuster
.

Good question: probably a LONG time; when contacted for the first time almost all 'primitive' tribes had shamans and witchdoctors who performed such functions - not quite to the god king level but still living off others. A number of the tribes also had hereditary leaders, some who claimed unworldly powers or that they were gods, etc

Maybe its some type of evolutionary trait? A gene that makes it much easier to fabricate lies and intimidate others?

To me that would be the most logical conclusion in light of these primitive tribes having some sort of "higher" human to lead the way.

Psychopaths. Humanity is for the most part a Pathological species, in that we allow ourselves to be dominated and ruled by psychopaths.

Originally posted by korathin


Psychopaths. Humanity is for the most part a Pathological species, in that we allow ourselves to be dominated and ruled by psychopaths.

Well no, we are social creatures and our societies appear to work best with a certain amount of leadership. What those leader do is another matter!

Originally posted by Hanslune
Well no, we are social creatures and our societies appear to work best with a certain amount of leadership. What those leader do is another matter!

According to statistics, 20%, or 1 in 5, are possessed with the leadership quality, in any group of higher mammals. Obviously in modern society this is moot, there are a lot of wasted leaders out there, some of those leaders are by necessity frustrated which can lead to negative psychopathy. Psychopathic qualities though are not necessarily a bad thing, they are just often under utilised. Ernest Shackleton was not only a great leader, on the micro scale, but he understood the qualities that made a great leader under extreme situations...

"You often have to hide from them not only the truth, but your feelings about the truth. You may know that the facts are dead against you, but you mustn't say so."

www.squidoo.com...

The ability to lie to others, is a quality of leadership. As is the ability to leave people to die when it would risk the safety of the majority. Psychopathy, depending on circumstances, is therefore, or rather has been, a necessity of our overall survival as a species.

yes, and to inspire, motivate and otherwise lead or manage. One of the great motivators are religions, which is why we have invented so many of the darn things.

Originally posted by Hanslune
yes, and to inspire, motivate and otherwise lead or manage. One of the great motivators are religions, which is why we have invented so many of the darn things.

Religion, largely, is lazy management.

reply to post by Biliverdin


I've always heard it described as great marketing with good customer service but no product

Originally posted by Hanslune
I've always heard it described as great marketing with good customer service but no product

Haha...yeah I can agree with that, though there is a product, but one that we all have anyway, completely free of charge, we're just convinced of the need to purchase the service manual and helpdesk by a team of expensively dressed and overpaid, marketing and advertising executives.

reply to post by Biliverdin


Well exactly!