Is "unconditional" love or happiness possible if ever-change and duality is true?

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Because you believe in the changing, non permanent 'things', you live in the assumption of duality, so yes unconditional love and happiness will elude you. You live in confusion and fear because you believe and live a lie.
When you realize the truth, that there is no duality, fear and confusion cease and you will know peace and joy.

The 'things' are seen but what is it that sees?

edit on 22-2-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

It is God being God everywhere. There should be no distrust.

Originally posted by arpgme
How can you believe that you can be "loving" or "Happy" in any situation if duality exists and things are always changing?

Some people say, duality is really two parts working together as one WHOLE so it is all ONE. Ok, so love AND hate are a part of that oneness and things are always changing so how can you stay in one state of being (love, happy, peace) etc?

edit on 21-2-2012 by arpgme because: (no reason given)

You must learn to accept that which you hate and fear. Then they have no power to make you hate or fear them. There is no good or bad. Everything is and is as it should be and couldn't be any other way.

Even so-called evil is not bad, because if all "evil" was accepted, then what power would it have over us? How would it still be called, "evil" when evil should be unacceptable? The fact that it is acceptable indicates that it is nothing more than a natural fact of life and that even if you were a slave, you could be free.

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Love and peace are the same. You can't have one without the other. You can't have love without acceptance. If you have a girlfriend or a boyfriend, and you can't accept that person for who he/she is, then you don't love him/her.

No they aren't.

With Love, there is care and understanding - compassion, with Peace there isn't care. There is just being, and acceptance and allowing.

Peace is more detached then love...

Originally posted by smithjustinb

You must learn to accept that which you hate and fear. Then they have no power to make you hate or fear them. There is no good or bad. Everything is and is as it should be and couldn't be any other way.

This is a great definition of Peace - not love.

Originally posted by smithjustinb

You must learn to accept that which you hate and fear. Then they have no power to make you hate or fear them. There is no good or bad. Everything is and is as it should be and couldn't be any other way.

Even so-called evil is not bad, because if all "evil" was accepted, then what power would it have over us? How would it still be called, "evil" when evil should be unacceptable? The fact that it is acceptable indicates that it is nothing more than a natural fact of life and that even if you were a slave, you could be free.

Ok, just understand that this is Peace, not Love. There is a difference.

reply to post by LifeIsEnergy


couldn't have said it better myself.

Originally posted by arpgme

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Love and peace are the same. You can't have one without the other. You can't have love without acceptance. If you have a girlfriend or a boyfriend, and you can't accept that person for who he/she is, then you don't love him/her.

No they aren't.

With Love, there is care and understanding - compassion, with Peace there isn't care. There is just being, and acceptance and allowing.

Peace is more detached then love...

You think apathy is peaceful? You think you can have peace without caring? Try it, let me know how it works for you.

Peace without love is conditional peace. It will fade. It is weak. Peace with love is strong, unconditional peace. That peace you can hold on to forever.

reply to post by arpgme


Answer me this:

How come you can have peace and love but not peace and hate?

Originally posted by el1jah
I think as humans our goal is to 'know that which, by knowing it, all things become known

Interesting.

But honestly, "that which can be known, that by knowing it, all things become known" probably won't be known until all things are already known, which I think is impossible because I think there is an infinite amount of knowledge to be known.

So perhaps the thing to know that reveals all other things is knowing that you don't and can't know.

Originally posted by smithjustinb


You think apathy is peaceful? You think you can have peace without caring? Try it, let me know how it works for you.

The Point that I'm trying to make is this:

Love MUST have compassion (caring and understand), Peace is ONLY acceptance and allowing ALTHOUGH it CAN be powered by Love.

Peace alone is not caring because Peace is ONLY acceptance and allowing - it has nothing to do with emotions in particular.

Originally posted by smithjustinb
reply to post by arpgme

 

Answer me this:

How come you can have peace and love but not peace and hate?

Peace is Acceptance and Allowing. Peace is Netural, Love is Positive, Hate is Negative. Peace is the place in between, the calmness from which Love and Hate can arise.

So it is totally possible to feel love and accept (peace) that, and to feel hate and accept (peace) that.

reply to post by arpgme


If great souls such as Krishna, Budha and Jesus accomplished this state while living in the flesh and thus dealing with duality, I wouldn't say it's IMPOSSIBLE... However, given the amount of people I actually know who have achieved this state of unconditional love (ZERO), I'd say it must be a pretty difficult task. Here's a little experiment: try and spend one full day without thinking or saying anything negative about another living being. It's harder than it seems. Then you'll have an idea of how far from these amazing avatars (great souls) we all stand right now.

Peace,
Deny

Originally posted by arpgme

So it is totally possible to feel love and accept (peace) that, and to feel hate and accept (peace) that.

Yes, but at the moment of accepting that which hate, you no longer hate it. However, at the moment of accepting that which you love, you still love it.

Originally posted by baalbuster
I look at duality as a circle with a line drawn through it, there are two halves but there really isn't two....its just a separation within the same object. IMO if one is at peace with the division within the greater circle then one only views the greater circle instead of the division within.

And this is the secret to end human suffering and receive higher wisdom.

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by arpgme

So it is totally possible to feel love and accept (peace) that, and to feel hate and accept (peace) that.

Yes, but at the moment of accepting that which hate, you no longer hate it. However, at the moment of accepting that which you love, you still love it.

I accept that rape and murder happens but I still hate those acts

I think the only confusion now is lying in the different definitions of the words being used. For instance, "Love" means many things to many people. I think the OP makes an astute observation that there can be no such thing as "unconditional love", because "love" by most peoples definition is an emotion of warmth, security and acceptance. "Love", by this definition, is something and therefore it cannot be unconditional. This is why I try to not use such loaded words.

We should try to find a simpler way of explaining this without such loaded words that only result in more confusion.

Originally posted by baalbuster

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by arpgme

So it is totally possible to feel love and accept (peace) that, and to feel hate and accept (peace) that.

Yes, but at the moment of accepting that which hate, you no longer hate it. However, at the moment of accepting that which you love, you still love it.

I accept that rape and murder happens but I still hate those acts

Yes, but if it happened to you, would you be able to accept it?

To end the suffering rape would inevitably cause you, you would have to forgive the person who raped you, and then you would have to accept the fact that it happened, as well as accept the person who did it to you.

Otherwise you will suffer.

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by baalbuster

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by arpgme

So it is totally possible to feel love and accept (peace) that, and to feel hate and accept (peace) that.

Yes, but at the moment of accepting that which hate, you no longer hate it. However, at the moment of accepting that which you love, you still love it.

I accept that rape and murder happens but I still hate those acts

Yes, but if it happened to you, would you be able to accept it?

Yes, then I would exact vengeance. Actions causes reactions...violent actions causes violent reactions, peaceful actions causes peaceful reactions.

reply to post by baalbuster


I edited my original response. quote and reply to the edited version.

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by baalbuster

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by arpgme

So it is totally possible to feel love and accept (peace) that, and to feel hate and accept (peace) that.

Yes, but at the moment of accepting that which hate, you no longer hate it. However, at the moment of accepting that which you love, you still love it.

I accept that rape and murder happens but I still hate those acts

Yes, but if it happened to you, would you be able to accept it?

To end the suffering rape would inevitably cause you, you would have to forgive the person who raped you, and then you would have to accept the fact that it happened, as well as accept the person who did it to you.

Otherwise you will suffer.

edit on 22-2-2012 by smithjustinb because: (no reason given)

Accepting it doesn't mean it wouldn't bother you anymore. I think people who cause such violent acts know full and well it will one day spring back on them, they forfeit their peace by their own violent actions.

Could you love someone who you watched behead your whole family when you were a small child? Unconditional love is a joke my friend.

Originally posted by smithjustinb
reply to post by baalbuster

 

I edited my original response. quote and reply to the edited version.

Could you give the same love to John Wayne Gacy as you do your own mother?

Originally posted by baalbuster

Yes, then I would exact vengeance. Actions causes reactions...violent actions causes violent reactions, peaceful actions causes peaceful reactions.

And that would be fine as a way to come to terms and peace with the situation. But the hate towards the person would still be there, so whenever you thought about that person, they would pull you away from any positive mindset you might be indulging yourself in.

Ultimately, to be spotless in your current relationship to your memory, you would have to forgive everyone who ever offended you and move forward to an attitude of acceptance towards the person who offended you. That way there is no remaining inner animosity

Originally posted by baalbuster

Could you love someone who you watched behead your whole family when you were a small child? Unconditional love is a joke my friend.

My friend, the only way to end the suffering that that event cause you would to be to eventually forgive the person who did that to you. And once you forgive the person, you are free to love him/her as much as you want. If you find yourself unable to love that person, then you have not truly forgiven that person. In that case, you would still suffer.