Is "unconditional" love or happiness possible if ever-change and duality is true?

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posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 02:26 AM
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I think we should clarify the words conditional and unconditional before we move on so we are all on the same page.

Conditional = Dependent upon something else for its existence. Caused/derives from something else. Did not bring itself into existence. Has a beginning and an end.

Unconditional = Not dependent upon something else for its existence. Not caused by something else. Does not have a beginning or an end.

So, everything we can be aware of, from material objects to ideas of a spirit or a God, is conditional because it is dependent upon awareness. Yet awareness itself cannot be said to be conditional because whatever is saying it is, is itself dependent on awareness.

In other words, awareness cannot be aware of itself, thus it cannot be aware of its potential boundaries or limits, thus it cannot be aware of anything beyond itself, thus it does not have a beginning or an end, thus it is not dependent on anything else for its existence, thus it just is by itself, thus it is unconditional.
edit on 22-2-2012 by LifeIsEnergy because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 02:30 AM
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reply to post by LifeIsEnergy
 

i disagree i am aware that i am aware of being aware right now . i also believe i am everything so i believe i am awareness and will be aware of myself when i wake up and since when can something not be aware of itself
edit on 22-2-2012 by SpiritWolfPup because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 02:40 AM
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reply to post by SpiritWolfPup
 


How are you aware of being aware? You are aware of the mind that thinks it is a body that is aware. Awareness is like the sun, and the mind is like the moon. The mind is merely a reflection of awareness. Without the sun the moon would not shine. How can the moon shine without the sun? The moon's shine is dependent upon the sun's light, as the mind's ability to think about awareness is dependent upon raw awareness.

You are awareness. To say you are aware of awareness means you are separate from awareness. Is the mind beyond awareness, or is awareness beyond the mind?
edit on 22-2-2012 by LifeIsEnergy because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 02:46 AM
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i am never seperated just happen to be else where in thought my soul which is awareness and is always with me and i am always aware of my soul might be sub conciousely but always concious of it. crap its late need sleep zzzz..zzz will continue later answering questions lol



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 02:49 AM
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reply to post by LifeIsEnergy
 


Awareness is a construct of consciousness, and consciousness is a by-product of the mind's functions. Things without consciousness have no sense of awareness, and are not aware of their own existence. Like a rock, or a child's wooden block. It is only because of the mind's ability to be conscious that awareness exists at all. Awareness is a product of consciousness, and consciousness of the mind, and the mind is a product of the body. It is a circle of dependency. No aspect is truly unconditional.

~ Wandering Scribe



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 02:54 AM
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If unconditional love exists, that would mean you would love someone even if they killed everyone else you loved. Do you love anyone that much?



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 03:01 AM
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reply to post by Wandering Scribe
 


The words "Awareness" and "Consciousness" are interchangable. The mind comes after awareness though, if you do not see this you must look deeper.

The mind is merely a chain or collection of thoughts. Thoughts are always of the past. Therefore, either you are never aware of the present moment or you are and the mind comes after awareness. If you are never aware of the present moment then you do not exist. If you are aware of the present moment then you do exist but the mind does not. And so what is aware of this body that you identify yourself with? The mind or awareness/consciousness?



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 03:08 AM
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You just need to know that ever-change and duality created you.

If you cannot see how beautifull that reality is... and if you cant have an unconditional love for life... then no.



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 04:35 AM
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reply to post by LifeIsEnergy
 


you are meaning to reject the truth

truth is freedom, only freedom is the reason of true existence by recognizing objective facts constancy values and only freedom is the reason of true life by recognizing being positive to else freedom while keeping a superior free breath out for

that is how true awareness is to become true conscious which is to become true individualities, from freeing whatever u mean to keep being or doing or meaning from what all and any is exclusively justified by freedom reason,

constancy is the source of freedom intelligence as separate thing totally from void fact which stay same

but constancy even of nothing at all become only constancy fact which is the open gate sense to the concept of truth, the introduction to what is beyond objective conditions and possible superiority



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 04:56 AM
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reply to post by LifeIsEnergy
 


Awareness is always aware. But awareness is usually aware of 'something'. Humans don't notice the awareness because they are caught up in 'things', the content of life, whether it is the body or the thoughts or the chair or the table.
Awareness is not a 'thing', it is the space in which all 'things' appear and disappear.
However, awareness can be aware of awareness, it does not 'think', it 'sees and knows' thought. It is aware of 'all things'.

Unconditional love is awareness. It sees 'things' appear, 'things' like anger and allows the next 'thing' to appear. Awareness does not hold on to any 'thing'. It is the mind that is unconditional, it is the mind that grasps and holds, it is the mind that wants more or less of what is always moving and changing.
Awareness is acceptance of what is presently appearing.
Awareness can only be aware of the present because another name for awareness is Presence.

The mind made self is absent when awareness is aware of awareness. When the individual separate self ceases there is peace.

edit on 22-2-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 05:25 AM
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We live with desires and wishes, that is our fuel for action otherwise we wouldn't get up from bed.

Its the will to achieve something that keeps us going, so you must want something, and then you use your time achieving what you want.

Apart from this game of fulfilling your wishes there is no reason not to love life.

Duality is is the "get what you want game" because sometimes you get it, sometimes you don't.

If you love life in any conditions, you cant go into deep negative emotions anymore, this love for life will support you even in the down moments when your wishes are not fulfilled.

Unconditionally love for existence on this planet and beyond, will give you a stable emotional state, you never go into deep negativity because the joy for being alive will always be there, even when you don't get what you want, so the duality game will not enslave your emotions anymore.





That´s how you transcend duality, with unconditional love for life, you are no longer at its mercy.



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 05:32 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


You got it wrong buddy, I never said that Hate and anger and sadness disapears, I'm saying you have the choice to empower which emotions you wish to fully experience and thus use as an everyday tool. Free will my friend not ignorance.

Peace!



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 05:45 AM
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Originally posted by NoLoveInFear46and2
reply to post by arpgme
 


You got it wrong buddy, I never said that Hate and anger and sadness disapears, I'm saying you have the choice to empower which emotions you wish to fully experience and thus use as an everyday tool. Free will my friend not ignorance.

Peace!


I agree that you can control your emotions. Example: something happoens that makes you angry, you realize you are angry (awareness) and then you say to yourself: calm down buddy, no need to be angry, and you calm down.

See, the emotion arises, you are conscious of it and you choose not to go with it, you are in control.
This is achievable.



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 06:03 AM
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Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by arpgme
 


For something to be unconditional it requires just that: no cause, no reward, no stimuli. I do believe that unconditional love does exist. I do things out of love and kindness all the time, without any concern for whether they are known, repaid, appreciated, or acknowledged. I just do them.

Knowing there is hate in the world does not make my spontaneous, unmotivated, unconditional actions of love any less valid and real. I am sure there are unconditional moments of hate as well.

~ Wandering Scribe


Sure, but there is more to you then your actions, there is your thoughts and feelings. Are you saying that you can choose to only think loving thoughts and to only have loving feelings if that is what you choose? A hateful thought will never arise? Because if the hateful thought or emotion will still arise, then your love is not unconditional because if it were really unconditional it would stay with you throughout any conditions without any hate ever entering if that is what you chose.



Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by LifeIsEnergy
 

Unconditional love is awareness. It sees 'things' appear, 'things' like anger, accepts it and allows the next 'thing' to appear. Awareness does not hold on to any 'thing'.


That isn't love, it is more like acceptance. Love is compassion, caring, and appreciating...


Originally posted by Manula
If you love life in any conditions, you cant go into deep negative emotions anymore, this love for life will support you even in the down moments when your wishes are not fulfilled.


If you decided to be loving unconditionally, eventually a hateful thought or feeling will arise in you, thus proving that it is not unconditional or you should only be thinking, feeling, and doing acts of love and hate should be no where in there if it were truly unconditional.


Originally posted by NoLoveInFear46and2
reply to post by arpgme
 


You got it wrong buddy, I never said that Hate and anger and sadness disapears, I'm saying you have the choice to empower which emotions you wish to fully experience and thus use as an everyday tool. Free will my friend not ignorance.

Peace!


So if the hate won't disappear then the love is not unconditional, because sometimes feelings and thoughts of hate still come up. Unconditional love would only have thoughts and feelings of love and never hate if that is what you wanted.


Originally posted by Manula

See, the emotion arises, you are conscious of it and you choose not to go with it, you are in control.
This is achievable.


But you never had a choice to not feel that emotion, you were forced to feel it because it arises within you. If the love was truly unconditional you should only be feeling love and never hate at all.

Unconditional love is being able to have that love without conditions,

so no matter what happens, a thought of hate or anger should never arise, only love if that is what you choose for yourself, but even if you did choose that for yourself, eventually the feeling of hate or anger will arise again proving that the love is not unconditional.

YES! We can choose which emotion we want to dictate our lives, I agree. If you are anger you can say to yourself "This emotion doesn't feel good, I'm going to go back to love", however, the love is NOT unconditional you still feel anger and hate under conditions...



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 06:15 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


With the recognition of awareness comes compassion. Compassion is acceptance.
If you are talking about love with the opposite being hate then both of these appear in awareness. Awareness is the neutral state and love/hate are 'things' that are seen by awareness.
Love/hate is dual and awareness is non dual.



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 06:17 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


When your wishes are not fulfilled its natural that some bad emotions sneak in, but you can choose not to go with them. You have free will with your emotions.

Whats the problem?

Unconditional love for life will give you permanent joy of living, but in the day to day life sometimes you are so focused in your things that you forget it, and all kinds of emotions will arise, but the trick is to remember it.

You have to train your awareness of unconditional love but it is not always in your mind because you need to focus in doing the things you want to do.



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 06:19 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


If you realize that you are the aware presence it does not matter what arises. No thought can take you away from the peace that you are when you have seen the truth of what you are.
Thoughts are 'things' that pass. Awareness never passes, it is constant and never changing.
It is the space that allows all things to be.

Be present with what is present and that is unconditional love. To be in judgment, to not want what is, is to be conditional.
edit on 22-2-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 06:20 AM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by arpgme
 


With the recognition of awareness comes compassion. Compassion is acceptance.
If you are talking about love with the opposite being hate then both of these appear in awareness. Awareness is the neutral state and love/hate are 'things' that are seen by awareness.
Love/hate is dual and awareness is non dual.


Compassion is not acceptance. Compassion is understanding a person's suffering and trying to help them, it's trying to do something in order to change a situation - that is not acceptance....

Acceptance is neutral it allows the light (love/compassion) and the dark (hate) to exist.

Also, isn't Awareness still dual, there is awareness and unawareness. You can't control whether you are aware or not but you have 100% control on whether you accept everything as is or not regardless of your emotion.



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 06:23 AM
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Metaphysical, but...

True love (ie love for ones parent or offspring in many cases, and for a life partner to a lesser extent)

IS unconditional as in resistant to change, and duality.

True love is dedicated unity, selflessness.

Unconditionally



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 06:24 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


So tell me when are you not aware?
Unawareness can not be!
To be or not to be? That is the question.
Awareness is not dual.





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