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So do other gods exist?

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posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 10:46 PM
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reply to post by LightAssassin
 


I am more than well versed on this topic.And as Ive spent over 50 years on it...Ill assume Im way more knowledgable than you implied.

Your assumtions are wrong, your point misconstrued and vague on this topic, which implies your own lack of understanding as to your own wording. Clarity would help..

I choose not to debate with anyone such as yourself...because you'll always say Im wrong...and thats fine. (Im not by the way)...and need to "do research". Hardly.

Ill just use (again) your own wording you wish interpreted by the reader..."The Gods/Elohim..." and that it was 'THEIR Crusades".

Proceed please without further insults and response to me. I wont respond back.




posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 12:40 PM
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reply to post by mysterioustranger
 
You need to do some research in the right direction and then you will no longer be barking up the wrong tree.

Reading a book and then pretending it's a metaphor so that you can twist it's meanings does not help anyone reach the truth. Mistranslating and omitting sections, of a multitude of stories, compiled selectively, to form a compilation marketed as one book, and the word of 'god', is not a very trustworthy way to uncover the truth either...

Read the bible and use your brain, it will clearly be shown that the bible is a story of ET intervention. You will realize this unless you are so selfishly afraid of going to hell, and the devil poking you with his pitchfork, that you will remain dedicated to your religious willful ignorance and deny the obvious truth.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 10:44 PM
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"clearly be shown that the bible is a story of ET intervention". I ABSOLUTELY agree!

This is why theres no point discussing this. I could dispute and explain why every single sentence of your replying post here was entirely incorrect. But, if you dont get it...and by your "interpretation" of what I do and dont know you dont get it ..theres really no point. And I agreed with you too....a shame.

You shouldnt be so defensive. And even when nearly every single sentence of your reply reply to me and about me and my beliefs and what Ive read and not read.... was incorrect.

Hard to make your point that way...and with one who agreeing with you.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 11:41 PM
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reply to post by binkbonk
 





Read the bible and use your brain, it will clearly be shown that the bible is a story of ET intervention. You will realize this unless you are so selfishly afraid of going to hell, and the devil poking you with his pitchfork, that you will remain dedicated to your religious willful ignorance and deny the obvious truth.


And what is this obvious truth you speak of? God doesnt exist and the rich elite who secretly rule the world and poison are food and water are just gonna forever stay in power? No justice? Damn. Oh well im sure the people at phillipmorris cigarettes are content.



posted on Feb, 24 2012 @ 03:45 PM
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St. John of the Cross says that all humans can become 'God Like' and 'partake of the divine'.
We don't become Gods ... but like God.
Anyways .. that's the only 'other Gods' I know about.
In Buddhism 'deities and demigods' speak through oracles.
But I'm thinking those are just really powerful bad spirits and not really 'Gods'.



posted on Feb, 24 2012 @ 07:27 PM
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reply to post by vaelamin
 



Do other gods exist?

My answer would be a resounded 'yes' ! And please don't attempt to spare anybody's feeling by engaging in your quest to read what's really there.! You know how many times it mentions there being one god? None.! Monotheism was added into the Bible much later. It wasn't even an afterthought to the scribes. There are 70 other gods to be exact, which at a time were all subservient to Yahweh or the God of Israel. THey are called 'bene elyon' , or sons of Yahweh.

The Old TEstament is such a fascinating book when you're not bound by what another person or church thinks it should read.



posted on Feb, 24 2012 @ 07:29 PM
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Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
reply to post by vaelamin
 


I think the term God is used as a metaphor in this case. Many people can have many different Gods. If you bow down and worship an Elvis statue then that is essentialy your God, although not A God. God is saying not to worship anything other than him. Alcohol, drugs, pornography, and any other vice, addictive or not can be considered one's God if their life revolves around such things.


Certainly not as the use of a metaphor would imply that the entire Bible is a metaphor. So the metaphorical God (note the use of a PROPER noun) tells his creations not to worship other metaphorical gods?



posted on Feb, 24 2012 @ 07:34 PM
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reply to post by CaptainNemo
 

. . . There are 70 other gods to be exact . . .

Here's where I posted my list of the Gods of the Old Testament-
www.abovetopsecret.com...
I have 42, while stretching the definition of "god" a little.
Who are the other 28 gods?



posted on Feb, 24 2012 @ 07:39 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by vaelamin
 


Personally i believe there is one true God... and many Entities masquerading as him...

As you can see within the pages of the bible, and many other religious texts as well



What bible do you use? Do you feel that the Bibles that fly off the bookshelves have over the course of 2000 years in no way been altered or subjected to no ones opinion? There are over 50+ bibles published by different companies that all read what the publisher thinks they should read. One thing that will always remain the truth is the ORIGINAL WORD. Unfortunately that's most likely lost, but all hope is not lost, try the next best thing. The Masoretic and Septaguints! Essentially the languages they were written in, HEBREW and GREEK. GROSS mistranslations over the course of time have drastically altered the meaning of the bible, take this one for example:

Elohim is a grammatically singular or plural noun which is translated to God or gods:




in the Greek Septuagint, Hebrew elohim with a plural verb, or with implied plural context, was rendered either angeloi ("angels") or pros to kriterion tou Theou ("before the judgement of God").[11] These passages then entered first the Latin Vulgate, then the English King James Version as "angels" and "judges", respectively. From this came the result that James Strong, for example, listed "angels" and "judges" as possible meanings for elohim with a plural verb in his Strong's Concordance, and the same is true of many other 17th-20th Century reference works. Both Gesenius' Hebrew Lexicon and the Brown-Driver-Briggs Lexicon list both angels and judges as possible alternative meanings of elohim with plural verbs and adjectives. However, the reliability of the Septuagint translation in this matter has been questioned by some. In the case of Gesenius, he lists the meaning without agreeing with it.[12] Ernst Wilhelm Hengstenberg published the conclusion that the Hebrew Bible text never uses elohim to refer to "angels", but that the Septuagint translators refused the references to "gods" in the verses they amended to "angels."[13]



en.wikipedia.org...

WOW so that's the difference between Polytheism and Monotheism.!

I challenge ANYONE to disprove me. I don't want opinion or your religion. Use linguistic, grammatical, archealogical, and etymological evidence to argue your contention. If you cannot meet any of these requirements, I will not listen.



posted on Feb, 24 2012 @ 08:02 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by CaptainNemo
 

. . . There are 70 other gods to be exact . . .

Here's where I posted my list of the Gods of the Old Testament-
www.abovetopsecret.com...
I have 42, while stretching the definition of "god" a little.
Who are the other 28 gods?


As far as I've gotten in the Old Testament, I can add 2 more to your list. Baal-hermon and Baal-meon (Chronicles 5).
For some reason the Bible doesn't go to in depth in listing the names of the other god's. Personally I think it's a good thing, people would get stray off of who the real creator is which in the past as been demonstrated to happen (Canaan). The number significant use of the number 70 appears in Exodus when the members of Joseph's family go into Egypt but after that it does not say that the Lord God had 70 sons, maybe it was edited out of Duet. 32:8. So scholars were meant to scavange for the answer. The city-state of Ugarit provided the missing puzzle piece. Texts found at the sight say that the creator 'El' fathered 70 sons, the gods. Certain lingusitic parallels were found and certain phrases presupposed a more coherent fit in Duet. 32:8 "the children of israel". But this professor can explain it better:




Literary and conceptual parallels discovered in the literature of Ugarit, however, have provided a more coherent explanation for the number 70 in Deuteronomy 32:8 - and have furnished powerful ammunition to textual scholars who argued against the "sons of Israel" reading in MT. Ugaritic mythology plainly states that the head of its pantheon, El (who, like the God of the Bible, is also referred to as El Elyon, the "Most High") fathered 70 sons,10 thereby setting the number of the "sons of El" (Ugaritic, bn )il ). An unmistakable linguistic parallel with the Hebrew text underlying the LXX reading was thus discovered, one which prompted many scholars to accept the LXX reading on logical and philological grounds: God (El Elyon in Deut. 32:8) divided the earth according to the number of heavenly beings who already existed from the time of creation.11 The coherence of this explanation notwithstanding, some commentators resist the LXX reading, at least in part because they fear that an acceptance of the Myhl) /Myl) ynb (bny )lym / )lhym ) readings (both of which may be translated “sons of gods”) somehow requires assent to the notion that Yahweh is the author of polytheism. This apprehension thus prompts text-critical defenses of MT in Deuteronomy 32:8, such as that of David L. Stevens.12 This author contends that the choice of MT in Deuteronomy 32:8 is based on a misunderstanding of both the textual history of the Hebrew Bible and text-critical methodology, prejudiced evaluation of non-MT texts, and an unfounded concern that departure from the MT reading results in “Israelite polytheism.” The primary goal of the present article is to show that understanding "sons of God" as the correct reading in Deuteronomy 32:8 in no way requires one to view Israelite religion as polytheistic. Toward that end, some selected comments on the text-critical issues are necessary.


Here's a bit about the good doctor:



"Let's get the academic stuff out of the way first. I have an M.A. and Ph.D. in Hebrew Bible and Ancient Semitic Languages from the University of Wisconsin-Madison. My dissertation was entitled, "The Divine Council in Late Canonical and Non-Canonical Second Temple Jewish Literature" (English translation: the dissertation dealt with the presence of a pantheon in the Hebrew Bible and the binitarian nature of ancient Israelite religion and Judaism, a backdrop for the the belief in the deity of Christ in the New Testament). Before going to the UW-Madison, I also earned an M.A. in Ancient History from the University of Pennsylvania (major fields, Ancient Syria-Palestine and Egyptology). I can do translation work in roughly a dozen ancient languages, among them Biblical Hebrew, Biblical Greek, Aramaic, Syriac, Egyptian hieroglyphs, Phoenician, Moabite, Ugaritic cuneiform, and Klingon (just kidding there). I have also studied Akkadian and Sumerian independently. All that but I have difficulty understanding my wife (she'd vouch for that).


He isn't trying to push some agenda, he's simply reading what the text should read. Anybody that doesn't believe him should try it themselves.

biblos.com/interlinear.



posted on Feb, 24 2012 @ 08:25 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by vaelamin
'And against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment.' (Exodus 12:12)

Why would the Lord waste his time bringing judgement to statues?


Remember Pharoahs were considered gods too.
edit on 21-2-2012 by saint4God because: (no reason given)


Yeah, by the people of Egypt but certainly not by God's people that would be an unforgivable transgression. When the Bible mentions a Pharaoh, it specifically says Pharaoh. The highest man on Earth were Kings and the judges of Israel.

The undeniable contrast between the kings and those in heaven were made clear in Isiah 24:21

" wə·hā·yāh bay·yō·wm ha·hū, yip̄·qōḏ Yah·weh ‘al- ṣə·ḇā ham·mā·rō·wm bam·mā·rō·wm; wə·‘al- mal·ḵê hā·’ă·ḏā·māh ‘al- hā·’ă·ḏā·māh.

"And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth."

The high ones that are in heaven will fall and be cast down to the pit Isiah uses the strongs word naphal which he also uses for the fall of Lucifer. The strongs word for King is melek. SO in Isiahs OWN words, the beings in 24 will suffer the same fate as Lucifer did in Isiah 14:13



posted on Feb, 24 2012 @ 08:50 PM
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reply to post by CaptainNemo
 

As far as I've gotten in the Old Testament, I can add 2 more to your list. Baal-hermon and Baal-meon (Chronicles 5).
I was going to say that Baal-hermon was the same as Baal-Zaphon, but then I noticed that I had forgotten to add that to my list. Baal-meon is the name of a town of Reuben.
So, my list is optimistically up to 43.
edit on 24-2-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2012 @ 09:30 PM
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Originally posted by LightAssassin
reply to post by saint4God
 


It's clear. It is a possible corruption of his words. I do not believe that Jesus represents this God. This God is CLEARLY not benevolent and only cared about the people of Israel, because of this alliance.

Now either Jesus does not represent this God or Jesus is ONLY speaking for the people of Israel when he was alive and preaching.

I fail to understand how people who read the bible think it pertains to the people of the whole planet when it is clear it is directed only at the people of Israel.


edit on 21-2-2012 by LightAssassin because: (no reason given)


Like the guy you're replying to said, Yeshua said to worship the God of Abraham, I don't know how that can be misconstrued. Please don't assume your interpretation is correct over the world, don't deprive yourself of the knowledge of God. IMO Genesis is THE most crucial book in the Old Testament. You know in math when you'd go over something like adding fractions? You might have barely passed the test but when you go over multiplying and dividing mixed fractions it's harder because of your lack of understanding and it lingers throughout your entire math career. Well it's the same in the first book Genesis.

Let's see how the actions of man changed god from the God of genesis 1 to the God of Israel

God creates Adam and Eve, they screw up and are cast out.
God destroys the descendants of Adam with the flood.
God destroys sodom and Ghomorra

Ok so humans F up three times and are punished, I think it will suffice it to say that God is mad or unsatisfied but nevertheless each time he gives man the benefit of the doubt. But after the flood a very curious thing happens

"These are the families of the sons of Noah after their generations in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood"

So god is upset and after the flood he decides to divide up the nations of the earth, simple enough. Note the highlighted words.

Skip to Duet. 6:4
"Hear O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:"

So now the God is the God of Israel EXCLUSIVE to the nation. He proceeds to groom the nation to prominence killing it's enemies.

Fastfoward to Duet 32: 8-10. Moses is saying his farewell to his people and essentially is recalling how the people came to be with the help of the Lord

"the most High (God of Israel) divided to the nations their inheritance , when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel"

Again God dividing the nations of the earth are mentioned but Moses says there were given as an inheritance, or something given to somebody as their own, but to whom? Most modern bibles say "the children of Israel" but this is incorrect which in the Masoretic text is : "בְּנֵ֥ייִשְׂרָאֵֽל׃" Well let's examine this closely, בְּנֵ֥י or "to the sons" or bene, doesn't really fit with "of israel". Furthermore why would they render it "of israel" when in virtually every other instance in the Masoretic text, the word bene is followed by elyon which is a name of Yahweh or the God of Israel? Possibly this was a later alteration, one cannot no. To illustrate this view the Psalm mentioned by the OP, Psalm 82: 6

"I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'
וּבְנֵ֖יעֶלְי֣וֹן (sons of the Most High or Yahweh)

Sons of the Most high or bene elyon


"For the Lord's portion is his people; Jacob is his inheritence"

Once again, it would be nonsensicle and blasphemous to say that the nations were given to the children of Israel or human beings when in the very next line one of the nations (Israel) was Yahweh's portion, that rendering would imply that Yahweh is a human being which he is obviously not, so the children of Israel is not a fit. The word bene presupposes elyon so let's plug that back into verse 8. Now it reads:

"he set the bounds of the people according to the number of sons of God"

Further evidence of this being the correct translation was supported by several texts from the Qumran site



Where there are wide and significant textual divergencies between MT and the LXX, many textual studies have shown that the Qumran witnesses demonstrate the reliability of the transmission of the Hebrew text underlying the LX


www.thedivinecouncil.com...

So the Earth is divided up because of mans persistent resistance to their creator so finally God says enough is enough and gives the rest of the Earth up to his sons and Idolarity. THen he proceeds to wage war with the nations of his own sons. The sad part because the world is deprived of knowing the "mystery of the kingdom of God" as said by Yeshua. Yahweh chooses to be the God of Israel because he says that Abraham was a righteous man.
edit on 24-2-2012 by CaptainNemo because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-2-2012 by CaptainNemo because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2012 @ 10:04 PM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
Here's an explanation for the "gods" in Psalm 82:1-6:


The most reasonable explanation is the view most widely held over the centuries. The “gods” referred to in Psalm 82:1 and 6 are the rulers of Israel, who have failed to carry out their responsibilities as God’s representatives in the ruling of the nation. Several lines of evidence support this interpretation: (1) The way elohim is used elsewhere in the Old Testament. The term elohim almost always refers to the one and only God, the God of Israel (Deut. 4:35,39). It sometimes refers to the so-called “gods” of the heathen (e.g. Judg. 11:24; 1 Kings 18:24). The term also occasionally identifies “… rulers, judges, either as divine representatives at sacred places or as reflecting divine majesty and power …” Several passages may use elohim in this sense:


bible.org...


Rendering gods as judges is ENTIRELY interpretive and reckless. The people you're quoting are blatantly ignoring certain linguistic and etymological differences to protect the falsity of monotheism. That idea just did not exist when the events were unfolding.

Kings 22:19-22

"Therefore, hear the word of the LORD. I saw the LORD sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing by Him on His right and on His left...And there came froth a spirit and stood before the Lord and said I will persuade him"

So according to YOUR explanation, the judges or elders of Israel stand in equality with Yahweh in heaven interceding in Israel, going back in forth between the Earth and Heaven? Quite an extraordinary claim...
edit on 24-2-2012 by CaptainNemo because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2012 @ 10:21 PM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
Who was Ba'al?


Baʿal (Biblical Hebrew בעל, pronounced [ˈbaʕal], usually spelled Baal in English) is a Northwest Semitic title and honorific meaning "master" or "lord" that is used for various gods who were patrons of cities in the Levant and Asia Minor, cognate to Akkadian Bēlu. A Baalist or Baalite means a worshipper of Baal. "Baʿal" can refer to any god and even to human officials; in some texts it is used as a substitute for Hadad, a god of the rain, thunder, fertility and agriculture, and the lord of Heaven. Since only priests were allowed to utter his divine name, Hadad, Ba‛al was commonly used. Nevertheless, few if any Biblical uses of "Baʿal" refer to Hadad, the lord over the assembly of gods on the holy mount of Heaven, but rather refer to any number of local spirit-deities worshipped as cult images, each called baʿal and regarded in the Hebrew Bible in that context as a false god.


en.wikipedia.org...

Plus, we all know from mythology, that there was a "god" created to explain everything that they couldn't understand, whether it was the God of Thunder, God of Fertility, etc. until they (not all) realized that there was one true God in control of everything.


Ba'al means lord and was sort of a title to denote a diety.

Ba'al-haadad
Ba'al-meon
Ba'al-hermon
etc....

I love the bible because it's in a way all encompassing...The Ba'al's were the sons of God

" thou shall not bow down thyself unto them nor serve them: for I the Lord they God am a jealous God"

The bible says they were gods, but people still strain to apply some metaphorical meaning to is. If they were not gods, God would most likely not wasting his time waging war on idols and figments of the imagination worshiped by peoples he ad already forsaken. He would certianly have not killed Jehoshaphat for his grievous infraction in Kings 22

"And he did evil in the sight of the Lord and walked in the way of his father...For he served Baal and worshiped him and provoked anger the Lord God of Israel, according to all that his father had done."


And what does your Bible say about "mythology" or imaginary gods? The contemporary view of mythology isn't based on the bible, actually it's completely contrary to it hahahaha. Obviously the ancient Isrealites didn't view these gods as imaginary. People were in the presence of gods back then, they KILLED people. They had to exercise their power because anything short of it and the people wouldn't have believed they were gods. If your going to argue the Bible argue it with the Bible.



posted on Feb, 24 2012 @ 10:28 PM
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reply to post by CaptainNemo
 




Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.Job 1:6


So would this above scripture mean that satan is a god? or is it just a mistranslation? Becuase a few other translations has the sons of god part as angels. This one is the KJV. Which im guessing you probably already know seeing as your so well versed into this. Now the reason i ask this is becuase of jude 1:9.





But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"





And of course the facts that you said about the sons of god. Also what do you think about the zorostrian god ahriman? real or no? People on youtube seem to think he is the rainman the music industry(rap and r&b atleast) constantly talks about in there songs. But they seem to think that he is simply a demon. Which i can also see being a possibility. Would the norse gods also be a possibility?

www.youtube.com...



posted on Feb, 24 2012 @ 10:39 PM
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reply to post by CaptainNemo
 





And what does your Bible say about "mythology" or imaginary gods? The contemporary view of mythology isn't based on the bible, actually it's completely contrary to it hahahaha. Obviously the ancient Isrealites didn't view these gods as imaginary. People were in the presence of gods back then, they KILLED people. They had to exercise their power because anything short of it and the people wouldn't have believed they were gods. If your going to argue the Bible argue it with the Bible.


So what do you think happen to them? Also have you ever seen the show supernatural? they had an interesting episode on this called hammer of the gods.



posted on Feb, 24 2012 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by vaelamin
 


Remember what I said, the Greek Septuagint, which is the basis for every modern Bible rendered gods to angels or judges because they did not understand or did not want to think that the Hebrew Bible they translated was possibly polytheistic...

I just wrote an interesting reply on Satan:



I think Lucifer is the same as Satan. Lucifer is known as the morning star. Jesus or Yeshua is also called the morning star in revelations. Perhaps morning star was just a title and seeing as how Lucifer was God's favorite son but would fall, can we say that the title morning star was just recycled to Jesus ? Now Jesus is the new favorite son and asks his father to be born onto the Earth. Satan was the accuser and interceded or spoke on the behalf of God to the people of Earth like he did in job, kind of like Jesus right? I like this view, the idea of a binitarian power in heaven was traced all the way back to the second Jewish temple:


www.abovetopsecret.com...

And it's interesting you bring up the Illuminati...As the founders of the Illuminati were Jewish mystics. I'm trying to finish my research on the Bible, but knowing the things I do now and rereading the Bible I'm starting to uncover alot of things. You can too if you know what to look for. Jmdewey60 compiled a list of the god's mentioned in the bible: www.abovetopsecret.com...

I don't know much about the rainman, but you know about Bohemian Grove right? How they burn human effigy's tied on a pole in front of a giant owl statue. Alex Jones think's it's name is Molech, it too is in the bible too, but here's a possible connection. In the bible, worshipers of Molech would sacrifice their sons in the valley of Gehinna, burning them alive on poles...

"...bring forth out of the temple of the Lord all the vessels that were made for Baal, and for the grove, and for all the host of heaven"

So do the occult powers recognize the existence of other gods in the bible, summon them and draw power from them like their ancestors years ago?

Alex Jones Bohemian Grove



posted on Feb, 24 2012 @ 11:30 PM
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edit on 24-2-2012 by CaptainNemo because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2012 @ 11:30 PM
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reply to post by vaelamin
 


michaelsheiser.com...

Check out that site, he goes over it alot better than I can.
Supposebly the souls of the Nephillim are sent to sheol or the underworld when they are killed and they're become demons.




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