Do nice guys really finish last?

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
reply to post by bphi1908

 

Sorry friend, but women in their 30s and 40s still act the same way. They do not want what they say they want. That is the truth.

That may very well be your truth but that is certainly not my experience with woman in this age group. Like I said the original poster should not take advice from cynical, bitter SOB's such as yourself.

reply to post by doom27


Not very eloquently said.
But you're right.

Yes ,nice guys finish last.
Just look at the animal kingdom,the strong get to breed,the weak get the scraps.Its just nature.
Women sub-consciously are attracted to genetics that portray strength and protectiveness.Thus ensuring their off-spring are endowed with the strongest genes available.
How many times have you seen woman with assholes or abusive partners who constantly enter into these kinds of relationships. Or the ones that habitually return to physically abusive relationships (I personally know of many).
Its a paradigm that is less relevant in a modern world but still exists within our genes.I think its a hangover from when we were hunter gatherers, when women were vulnerable from attack/rape/etc, and a strong "protector/dominant/alpha" male was considered an advantage and a reliable provider.
In the end its just an act. Read about it,observe it,and act it. Confidence and a sense of humour are essential, and you dont have to be an asshole or become arrogant. Look at the positive attributes of an "alpha male" and utilize these.
Tip... Never ever fall into the status of being a "friend" to a woman that you are attracted to or want a relationship with.Once you are a "friend" its all over rover.
There are exceptions to these situations but they are rare.
From my experience this does not change with age much.
Unfortunately for me,Im one of those nice guys and am constantly told so,Thus I have many female friends.
Good luck.

Originally posted by grey580

Originally posted by bphi1908
And all these other posters my God man! Don't turn him into some cynical bitter piece of # cause you have had issues with women. Sounds like he doesn't need help... you guys do!

Mossbe 89 don't take advice from anyone who tells you YOU have to change, that is absurd!

Incorrect! He does have to change.
Now I don't mean he needs to change and become an insensitive jerk.
But he needs to grow and become a better man.
And there's nothing wrong with that.

Be a better man? He seems to be a pretty good one right now. With that said people naturally change as they go through life it is part of growing up...some (not you) need to do a little more of that than others.

I have no doubt he'll figure his conundrum out on his own.

Originally posted by bphi1908
Be a better man? He seems to be a pretty good one right now. With that said people naturally change as they go through life it is part of growing up...some (not you) need to do a little more of that than others.

I have no doubt he'll figure his conundrum out on his own.

The way I see it. If he's looking online for help. He needs some more improvement.
And he is young so he does have a ways to grow.

He might figure it out or he might not. But at least we can help him so he can make some better decisions.

read "The Game" by Neil Strauss. It will blow your mind and provide some really useful insight. It's not that "nice guys finish last". It is also good to point out that it's not just that girls want the "bad boy". There is an aspect of the equation that you aren't seeing. I hate to be a product placer, but seriously look at this book.

I'm afraid it's true

I consider myself to be a good guy and I'm constantly being trampled on, all my goodness and good deeds come to nothing, I'm just used and pushed to the side.

As for women, in my experience it's totally true.. the cartoon I've posted says a lot about the situation I'm in right now.

I'm not a push over either lol, I try to avoid conflict as much as possible, I always put the other person first unless it degrades myself in some way but I will stand up for myself and take no poo

Originally posted by mossme89
This is something I'm worried over. I'm 18 and am one of those "nice guys". I'm not a pushover. I'm not very shy, but do sometimes get nervous around a girl I like. I try to be nice and polite to everyone. Without trying to sound conceited, I see myself as relatively attractive. I've had people tell me I'm "cute" or above-average at the very least. And my friends tell me that they think I'm a great guy.

Don't get me wrong, there are girls that like me, but it's not mutual. I do try and give them a chance, and try to get to know them. But I don't feel anything with them and don't want to lead them on. One time I asked out a girl I didn't really like but who liked me and my friends were pressuring me to ask her out. NEVER AGAIN. The date was horrible. I think she enjoyed it, but I spent the entire time waiting for it to end and ended up cutting it short because I claimed my brother called me and needed to be picked up. So now I have a standard that I have to be physically attracted to her and have to feel something. That's pretty much it. There is 1 girl who I get along really well with and am very attracted to, where it's mutual, but she lives 3000 miles away on the west coast, so we're only Internet friends, albeit close friends

But girls my age that I like just don't seem interested in me. They go for the jerk or bad boy. I mean, I don't go for the beauty model type. I go for the girls that seem "cute" and I get along with. But they're just not interested. Whenever I ask for advice, people say things like "nice guys finish last" and "nobody wants a nice guy" and say I need to be more confident. The thing is, I am confident, but I have anxiety which makes me seem unconfident. It's a medical thing, I actually take anxiety medication for it. But it's less than I probably need. If we up the dosage, I lose the ability to feel emotion, so I have to deal with a lower dosage and a little less anxiety.

So here's the question: do nice guys finish last, or is there an age where girls get tired of jerks and start dating nicer guys? And are there more girls who are tolerant and can look past anxiety issues that a guy has to the person inside?

I'm 28 and your post is pretty much describing me accurately as well as my experiences.

The worst part is finding someone, getting the feeling they like you back but then wanting to take it slow because in the past, you've told girls you like how you feel after spending months or years hiding it and they ran away and you never saw them again but then when you finally do tell this person, you get knocked back because she just started dating someone else a few weeks before.

Then you get the feeling that she got bored of waiting and found someone else.

Like me, you may eventually find someone you get on well with and find cute as I have in the past 10 months (even though it's very long distance) but even so, I still believe the whole "nice guys finish last" adage is true.

Women complain that there aren't any "good guys" out there but forget that there were 5 of them she rejected in the past year because they "weren't her type".

Originally posted by LarrofDanu
read "The Game" by Neil Strauss. It will blow your mind and provide some really useful insight. It's not that "nice guys finish last". It is also good to point out that it's not just that girls want the "bad boy". There is an aspect of the equation that you aren't seeing. I hate to be a product placer, but seriously look at this book.

Reading it now. Seems to have a lot to do with psychology and reverse psychology. Have you read it?

No, nice guys do not finish last... I am living proof.

I was brought up to respect women, treat them as equals, be sensitive to their feelings and needs... OK.

Now that does not mean that dating women and finding a relationship is easy. Girls used to scare the crap out of me, I was unsure and lacked confidence, and I was OK looking... Not a stud, not Quasimodo... somewhere in between and most girls looked right past me.

BUT, at your age, most girls...underline the word GIRLS... like the bad boy, rebel, thug kind of guy... until he cheats on them with their sister, or room mate, or slaps them and gives them a black eye or split lip....then it isn't fun anymore.

After my divorce, I dated women.. underline the word WOMEN. I found that most sigle women in their 30s had been the victims of "use, abuse, and lose"... and after our first date... they were like..."Wow, you really are a nice guy." I didn't make any lewd comments, I actually listened to them, carried on a conversation, was polite and respectful, I didn't make a pass, I paid for the meals and activities, was a gentleman, and I didn't make the first move... I left it to them.

Honestly, by the third or fourth date... they were coming on to me. Like clockwork...and this always amazed me... it would be time for me to leave their apartment, house, whatever... and we would be at the door about to kiss goodnight...and they would always... and I mean always say... " You don't have to go if you don't want to."

Well... that was it...

Now, that's not to say they don't want a badboy or rebel... just a civilized, "safe" rebel/ outlaw. Most guys want their "Mom" in the kitchen, the "girl next door" out in public, and a "whore" in bed. Well, most women... at least the ones I dated and the one I married... want the security of a working man/dad figure, a romantic, playful, consistant guy in public, and they want the bad boy/outlaw in the bed... maybe a little domineering, maybe a little love spank for being a "badgirl"...

Anyway, follow your heart and realize that somewhere out there is a nice, mature, and fun girl that is maturing into a woman...and she is looking for a nice, consistant, respectful, caring young man to love.... just don't be too predictable... always stand your ground, have principles and ideals... most of the girls at that age are shallow... just like most of the guys. Maturity comes around about 25-30... and suddenly those things that were important are not anymore... keep looking.

reply to post by AlreadyGone


Haha you needa get a bit looser than a 'love smack' bro, I figured that out when I was 15 (and have received constant praise for my lovemaking ever since).

Hey mossme89,

From my experience as a "good guy", I can say that yes, we do tend to finish last in the race.

Back in HS, girls would always go for the "top" people in the school, such as football captains, cheerleaders, school "president", popular people (that don't fit the previous mentioned categories), or a "person" in charge of their clique (such as section leaders in band or orchestra, math club, drama, etc...). The main reason (in general, as not everyone is/was like this), was because that person was considered "popular". Back then, "popularity" meant "being the star" (You were the one everyone wanted to be; people would respect you and want to know you/ invite you to exclusive ). Could that same "power" be gotten by someone who helped you with homework, or open the door before class?

Now, not everyone was like that - there were plenty of people not interested in the "popular" crowd (and they were still amazing people in most cases).

In college, I found that the HS mindset did die out - Now, when you hold a door for someone, people (of both genders), give you a smile, or even sometimes try to get to know you (especially in volunteering activities). People actually like and admire it when you help others out (such as the elderly). I'm not saying do all this to "get the girls", but to say that it is possible to be a "good guy" and still win the girl/woman.

For the record, I'm with an awesome person now, and won her over not by being famous or popular (I did earn the Sousa award in HS, but she isn't a "band" person, so the award means nothing), but by being myself, and caring about her. Were we both in the same HS, I doubt I would've had a chance; now, I'm glad to say that being a "nice guy" was what helped me.

In Short: For the most part, nice guys do finish last. This depends, however, on the time, circumstance and age of the people in question. If you like someone, Say it, no matter how awkward you feel; they may like you back ("Many nice guys will hold back feelings about someone; What sets the nicer guy apart from the nice guys is the one who says his feelings without fear of rejection." ).

-fossilera

PS: I have a nasty habit of over-using the quotes (""), so if it annoys you, I'm sorry (and I'm trying to work on it).

reply to post by AlreadyGone


Like I've been saying and like you just posted.
Women want a man that's a man.

To the OP. Women don't know what they want. But will know it when they see it.
And what they desperately want is an Alpha Male.
Focus on being an Alpha Male and you'll see what I mean.

Yes from personal experience nice guys finish last but don't follow the advice of starting to do bad things that aren't you. Because you might not attract girls but there is one thing that is so much more important than that...

Preserving who you have become as a person. If you let them change you, you are letting them hurt you even more.

Originally posted by grey580

Originally posted by bphi1908
And all these other posters my God man! Don't turn him into some cynical bitter piece of # cause you have had issues with women. Sounds like he doesn't need help... you guys do!

Mossbe 89 don't take advice from anyone who tells you YOU have to change, that is absurd!

Incorrect! He does have to change.
Now I don't mean he needs to change and become an insensitive jerk.
But he needs to grow and become a better man.
And there's nothing wrong with that.

A better man. Oh my friend but he is already a better man than those bad boys or "alpha males" we speak of.
He is such a better and bigger man. Most girls or women just don't see it.Let's not confuse female views with the reality.

But if you really want to see true justice in the future, don't accept bad girls who turned into good girls.
Only accept girls who have always been good and never changed into bad ones, because those deserve your presence absolutely more than the bad-turned-good girls.

It all depends. If you want to be 50 and look back on your life and see your failure with women....keep it up. If you want all the poon you can handle and then give the spare away to your friends.....Billy badass....

The advantage of the badass is you dont have to waste any of your time on them. There is an ancient saying for the single man....pump and dump.

Here. This guy is ugly, disgusting and a moral reject.....but he has more hot chicks than you could ever imagine.

He will break your nice guy for you and throw it into the chipper so you can never get it back.

www.leykis101.com...

reply to post by mossme89

So here's the question: do nice guys finish last, or is there an age where girls get tired of jerks and start dating nicer guys? And are there more girls who are tolerant and can look past anxiety issues that a guy has to the person inside?

Nice guys do not finish last, they just end up that way until their 30's.
Pretty much around the 30's, most women realize that a jerk is always going to be a jerk, and then they are more prone to go with a nice guy.

While being attracted to your girl is important, it shouldn't be your largest criteria though. I mean, EVERYONE ages. In addition, at 18, you're not looking for Mrs. Right, you're looking for Ms. Right Now. Do not get sucked into thinking you've met THE ONE or anything. At 18, or even your 20s, you have ZERO idea of what you'll actually want in a mate.

Look more to someone you have fun with, like being around, and yeah, she should be physically appealing to you, but she shouldn't have to be a supermodel to fit the bill.

Like you, I'm the proverbial "nice guy". Like you, I had the same issues, but once in my 30's, man, it's easy to see how women change and want to be with those nice guys. Concentrate on the important things, like setting yourself up financially and career-wise, so you can enjoy it when they do appreciate you.

I know, it's tricky with your libido probably hammering at you like a jackhammer, but your day will come my friend, trust me.

The advantage of the badass is you dont have to waste any of your time on them. There is an ancient saying for the single man....pump and dump.

All well and good if that is who you are, but very difficult (not impossible) for a nice guy to fake....

I'll ask mine when he comes in from work whether he finished last.
He'll probably look at me like I just fell out of a tree..

Then I'll ask all the other real nice guys I know who are all loved up and happy, hopefully I'll be able to quiz them all before they decide to have me committed...

Originally posted by Suspiria
I'll ask mine when he comes in from work whether he finished last.

So bedroom shenanigans usually happen when you're sleeping or otherwise unconscious?

In that case, yeah, ANY guy can finish last then.