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Christianity Has Turned Into Narcissism

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posted on Feb, 21 2012 @ 05:00 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Attempting to gain the favor of, or move the hand of God by rites, rituals, or chants is witchcraft. We don't do things to motivate God to be good to us, we do good things in thankfulness for having a good God who has given us everything already in His Son, Christ Jesus.


So you don't actually realize that the passover feast, baptism, the Eucharist, and communion are all ritualistic symbolization?

Interesting...


No, I didn't say I did. And we are looking forward to the "end times" because that means Jesus is soon to arrive. Women don't look forward to having a baby because they love the pain, it's because they want to hold their child,


Yes i realize this... Lets just say i will eat my hat if Jesus actually arrives one day... And chances are IF he actually did come back, no one would even know it was him unless he started tossing fireballs or something along those lines. Trust me i wish something like this would happen as well... sadly i have my doubts.


I never said it's good to scare people. But if something is supposed to be scary (eternal separation from God) then we should never decide something's truthfulness by how it makes us feel emotionally.


Alright, how about how it makes others feel when you tell them "IF you don't believe what we believe you're going to hell"... Its almost impossible to keep up with the number of different beliefs from the various flavours of christianity all over the world... So considering how many different beliefs there are, whos to say if one is correct...IF any at all?

Personally i don't believe seperation from God is possible... you can't seperate from what you are... seperation is an illusion... and hell is a lie fabricated by the church to keep people scared. And it seems to work on the masses...


No one goes to a doctor to be healed unless they first realize their need for one. People who think they are well have no desire to go to the doctor.


A threat is a threat... it doesn't matter how much you candy coat it... Do you believe hindu's will be going to hell as well? How about buddhists? And what about the other 32k different christian sects... do they go to hell as well because they don't believe your doctrine?


Its been in practice even since the dark ages, and it still works to this day... scareing someone into conversion is pathetic... but i admit it works.


That is a "letter" dictated directly to John from Jesus. And Jesus instructed it to go to the 7 churches mentioned in chapters 2-3.


Yes i know what Christians believe... but i don't agree. It seems when Jesus died he changed his way of speaking... i guess you don't see that though. I have no use for revelation... or prophecy for that matter.


Yes, the agenda is to reveal Jesus Christ. The entire book is about Him. Everything pictures and foreshadows Him.


Aside from much of the OT, and the contradictions of the NT..... well mainly paul, but that is another issue...

I would prefer to think of it like this... the book was designed to control the masses, to keep them in line. When Jesus actually arrived on the scene he revolutionized the world... corrected it if you will... then paul came along and added his own spice to the belief... Most of Christianity isn't following Christ, its following paul. That much is obvious and is clearly shown on these forums by the shear number of so called "christians" that attempt to counter the words of Jesus with paul...

Thus the reason i consider most christians... paulians. Its just logical honestly...

Paulus Christ, the saviour of the christians...





posted on Feb, 21 2012 @ 09:28 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



So you don't actually realize that the passover feast, baptism, the Eucharist, and communion are all ritualistic symbolization?

Interesting...


We call it communion, from the Greek "Koinonia". and yes, it's ritualistic, but you ignored my point was th reason for doing these things, are they to gain God's favor and make Him want to be good? Or is iot in loving response to His goodness. When I take communion I don't do it so God will love me more and bless me, I do it to remember Jesus' sacrifice and the New Covenant in His blood.



Yes i realize this... Lets just say i will eat my hat if Jesus actually arrives one day... And chances are IF he actually did come back, no one would even know it was him unless he started tossing fireballs or something along those lines. Trust me i wish something like this would happen as well... sadly i have my doubts.


Revelation and Isaiah will tell you how you can recognize Him.



Alright, how about how it makes others feel when you tell them "IF you don't believe what we believe you're going to hell"...


I dunno, before I was a believer I didn't care. How does others comments make you feel? Now that I follow Christ I trust in Him and believe what He said was always true and absurdly detailed and precise. And He teaches more about hell, eternal judgment, than He teaches about heaven. He tells Peter the gates of hell will not prevail against the assault from the church.


Its almost impossible to keep up with the number of different beliefs from the various flavours of Christianity all over the world... So considering how many different beliefs there are, whos to say if one is correct...IF any at all?


Real Christians don;'t differ on the principles, (Deity of Christ, Virgin Birth, Resurrection) but differ quite a bit with the application. A lot of the differences in the US are usually type of music, and type of service, not doctrine.


Personally i don't believe seperation from God is possible... you can't seperate from what you are... seperation is an illusion... and hell is a lie fabricated by the church to keep people scared. And it seems to work on the masses...


Yes you can it's to be spiritually dead. To never again for eternity experience hope, love, laughter, friendship, companionship. That's worse than fire when you have a resurrected body that will not perish. Especially not ever having hope.



A threat is a threat... it doesn't matter how much you candy coat it... Do you believe hindu's will be going to hell as well? How about buddhists? And what about the other 32k different christian sects... do they go to hell as well because they don't believe your doctrine?


You missed my point, people don't need Jesus as Lord and Savior if they don't think they have the problem He is Father's remedy for.


Its been in practice even since the dark ages, and it still works to this day... scareing someone into conversion is pathetic... but i admit it works.


It's speaking truth. Christ spoke truth also on the subject. Christ died so you never have to ever be "scared" of it if you place your faith and trust in Him.




Yes i know what Christians believe... but i don't agree. It seems when Jesus died he changed his way of speaking... i guess you don't see that though. I have no use for revelation... or prophecy for that matter.


Well that's quite unfortunate. Eschatology has been a prime study and topic of specific interest since I became a Christian. And what I've learned in my time is fascinating and impossible to have been compiled by one man, let alone over 40 spanning a period of over 5000 years.

You should read the probability study done by an MIT Professor on just 8 OT prophecies about Jesus coming true written over 500 years before He was born. It's remarkable what you learn the probabilities behind just 8 prophesies, then consider the OT has 300 prophecies fulfilled in Christ's first coming.

The Bible is the most amazing book in existence, and it's of supernatural origin.



edit on 21-2-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2012 @ 09:38 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 



Aside from much of the OT, and the contradictions of the NT..... well mainly paul, but that is another issue...


Paul and Jesus say the same things, Paul: "Jesus died for your sins, trust Him." Jesus: "I'm shedding my blood for the forgiveness of sins." Paul; "Jesus died and rose again the 3rd day." Jesus: "I'm going to die and rise again the third day. Paul: "anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved" Jesus: "Anyone who calls upon Me, I will in no wise cast out".

Same stuff. Jesus saves. Trust Jesus.


I would prefer to think of it like this... the book was designed to control the masses, to keep them in line.


No, the opposite was true from history. The laity was "controlled" for 1,500 years by the Catholic church when they refused to let the common man have God's Word. When people began to translate the Bible into English from Latin (and were drug from their homes and murdered for it by the RCC) was when people began to see the errors of the RCC and the Reformation was born.


When Jesus actually arrived on the scene he revolutionized the world... corrected it if you will... then paul came along and added his own spice to the belief...


Jesus didn't come to "revolutionize the world" that happened after He rose from the dead. He came to die for all of us, in our place. He came out of perfect love for everyone without exception, all may come for salvation.


Most of Christianity isn't following Christ, its following paul. That much is obvious and is clearly shown on these forums by the shear number of so called "christians" that attempt to counter the words of Jesus with paul...


Most of Christianity is Gentile as well. Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles. Jesus didn't get into doctrine and Christian behavior too much, that';s explained once the church was born in Acts 2 at Pentecost. When Christ was alive the church wasn't born or revealed just yet.


Thus the reason i consider most christians... paulians. Its just logical honestly...

Paulus Christ, the saviour of the christians...


That's a straw man, Jesus is our Savior.


edit on 21-2-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



We call it communion, from the Greek "Koinonia". and yes, it's ritualistic, but you ignored my point was th reason for doing these things, are they to gain God's favor and make Him want to be good? Or is iot in loving response to His goodness. When I take communion I don't do it so God will love me more and bless me, I do it to remember Jesus' sacrifice and the New Covenant in His blood.


I wouldn't know honestly... i would assume Christians take communion because the church authorities tell them its required. I haven't participated in church rituals since i was a child... and i believe they are completely unnecessary.


I dunno, before I was a believer I didn't care. How does others comments make you feel? Now that I follow Christ I trust in Him and believe what He said was always true and absurdly detailed and precise. And He teaches more about hell, eternal judgment, than He teaches about heaven. He tells Peter the gates of hell will not prevail against the assault from the church.


Other peoples comments mean nothing to me... nor does the doctrine of hell and damnation... His use of the word is refering to one of his main lessons... that being "the first will be last, and the last will be first"

He also called Peter Satan in the same chapter...

23But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

24Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

25For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

So technically he built his church upon "the rock" which he also called satan...


Real Christians don;'t differ on the principles, (Deity of Christ, Virgin Birth, Resurrection) but differ quite a bit with the application. A lot of the differences in the US are usually type of music, and type of service, not doctrine.


"real Christians"? ... again, something that is almost impossible to define considering how many different flavors there are... And i beg to differ in the belief in doctine.... some sects believe in the apocryphal books, some believe in the bible and the gnostic scripture... some select various books within the bible and accept them as truth....


Yes you can it's to be spiritually dead. To never again for eternity experience hope, love, laughter, friendship, companionship. That's worse than fire when you have a resurrected body that will not perish. Especially not ever having hope.


I disagree, you can be spiritual numb... one can not be spiritually "dead"... without the spirit the body can not live...period. It is what life is... the spirit within. Without the spirit the body is dead... litterally

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also


It's speaking truth. Christ spoke truth also on the subject. Christ died so you never have to ever be "scared" of it if you place your faith and trust in Him.


Again i disagree... Hell does not exist... The word refers to a litteral place... and when Jesus uses it hes refering to that lesson i mentioned...


The Bible is the most amazing book in existence, and it's of supernatural origin.


I agree it is an amazing book... but it was written by man... not of supernatural origin. And please don't bother mentioning good old chucky... its not necessary.


Paul and Jesus say the same things


I strongly disagree, that is why i created the thread on Paul... Paul told his people to follow him, not Jesus... Not to mention he admitted to being a murderer, and a liar before he was had his little vision of christ... Afterwords he still lied, telling his followers Jesus considered himself equal with God, which is simply not true in the least... and paul barely mentioned any of HIS lessons in his ministry...


Paul: "anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved


Incorrect!!! .... Paul is a liar... THIS is what Jesus said...

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.



Jesus didn't come to "revolutionize the world" that happened after He rose from the dead.


I know why he came, but it still revolutionized the world through his lessons...


Most of Christianity is Gentile as well. Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles.


Possibly why most of "christianity" does not understand his words...


That's a straw man, Jesus is our Savior.


Tell that to KJV1611... And to the rest of your people who (as i've said) attempt to counter His words with pauls..

I maintain that paul hijacked Christianity, and made it his own...

Follow paul, or follow Jesus... Those are Christians options... And most follow paul IMHO


edit on 22-2-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by greyer
I love Jesus, I believe in Jesus, I want to be like Jesus.

Christians you depress me these days
Is it so difficult to ignore them?

because you have an obsession with proclaiming that these are the last days.
Already 2012 years are the last days

This is a FAD.
What is a FAD?

I don't know if because the bible describes the times and just because some things are happening there are many stupid threatening assumptions. Even if you knew the end of the world was going to happen in your lifetime then why would you keep telling other people who are not going to believe you and don't want to think about death? Are you trying to depress them telling them they are going to die?
Nope, I won't because the Bible says you are already dead. Because when He died on the cross, whole humanity died, only for them who believe that He is ressurect from between the other dead, get new live with Him!



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I wouldn't know honestly... i would assume Christians take communion because the church authorities tell them its required. I haven't participated in church rituals since i was a child... and i believe they are completely unnecessary.


Some Christians see communion as a blessing not a demand. We do it to remember what Christ did for us. Some only participate in communion to "remember" Him.


Other peoples comments mean nothing to me... nor does the doctrine of hell and damnation...


Which is basically Jesus' teaching and doctrine. He taught more about Hell than Heaven. And said most would be going there rather than heaven.


His use of the word is refering to one of his main lessons... that being "the first will be last, and the last will be first"


No, the "first and the last" teaching was to the apostles only, not the unsaved, and He was speaking about the kingdom of heaven, not hell at all. It means, whoever is to be the greatest amongst us will also be the one who serves the most. As Christ did for us. He said of men born of women (humans), there is none greater than John the Baptist, yet said the very least person in the kingdom of heaven is greater than John. John isn't a part of the church, he's the last person of God under the old covenant.


So technically he built his church upon "the rock" which he also called satan...


Jesus called Peter a "petros" (a little pebble) and said the "rock" (petra) that He would build His own church upon was what Peter said, not Peter himself. Jesus said it was His own, church, and said He Himself would build the church. You just miss out on the word-play being used by Jesus. He called Perter a "Petros" meaning a tiny pebble, Jesus called Himself, the Christ, the "Petra", or unmovable stone.

And this is true, Peter denied Christ to a teenage girl the next morning.


"real Christians"? ... again, something that is almost impossible to define considering how many different flavors there are...


That's why we let the Bible define it. WE DON'T define it. jesus does, He saves us anyways, it's His Spirit which indwells us and leads and guides us. The "real church"isn't a building ro a denomination, it's the invisible body of believers areound the globe. Every church has some of us, but not everyone who sits in a pew is one of us. You have to love and trust in Jesus.


And i beg to differ in the belief in doctine.... some sects believe in the apocryphal books, some believe in the bible and the gnostic scripture... some select various books within the bible and accept them as truth....


And some are true real Chrsitians and some are tares and wolves. Another of Christ's teachings we cannot forget to consider.


I disagree, you can be spiritual numb... one can not be spiritually "dead"... without the spirit the body can not live...period. It is what life is... the spirit within. Without the spirit the body is dead... litterally

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also


People are sent to hell after the resurrection and judgment, they will have a resurrected spioiritual "body" to enter eternity with, this new "flesh' will not die. God can and will seperate Himself from anything He created, just as He did whith Adam when Adam "died" spiritually. The next time the two were together God said "Hey, Adam, where are you"? God certainly was not lost, Adam was the one spiritually dead at that point. zhe immediately lost intimate communion with God which he shared with Him before he joined Eve in her rebellion.


Again i disagree... Hell does not exist... The word refers to a litteral place... and when Jesus uses it hes refering to that lesson i mentioned...


No He wasn't, the "first and the last" teaching was about the kingdom of heaven, not Hell. Jesus used the only places His audience knew of that would be comparable to hell. he used the fowl smelling, maggot-filled, perpetually burning trash heap outside the city to help illuminate what He was describing about Hell. He was not saying the wicked would spend eternity on a nasty, perpetually burning trash heap outside the city gates of Jerusalem.


I agree it is an amazing book... but it was written by man... not of supernatural origin. And please don't bother mentioning good old chucky... its not necessary.


It proves itself as coming from an origin that exists outside of space time. The inclusuion of thousands of detailed prophecies certifies that. That's how God certifies His message to us, by taking advantage of a property that only He enjoys, being outside of the dimensionality of time alltogether. you're correct, it's not necessary to mention Chuck, he didn't do the research!



edit on 22-2-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 07:27 PM
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reply to post by greyer
 


For many Christians, their induction into their faith so to speak was via fear based preaching and they simply pass on what they have been taught. I cannot tell you how many times I heard I was going to hell, how much of a sinner I was and the list of my faults that were pointed out to me under the guise of "helping to save me". I discovered on my own that for all the fire and brimstone and judgement, there is hope, compassion, mercy, love and forgiveness.

The latter helped me to understand that those are just some of the qualities we should emulate if we are to have a relationship with Jesus. So perhaps rather than pointing out others failings we could be encouraging people to be more Christ like and lead by example? I think it's worth a mention that whilst many people tend to fall into the doom and gloom trap of worrying about the last days or end of days; some folks simply take it in stride, put their faith in God and try to be as prepared as they can be for any emergency. I will not denigrate someone because they choose to be prepared whether I follow that philosophy or not.

Just some random thoughts.



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 07:37 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


Continued:


I strongly disagree, that is why i created the thread on Paul...


You're just as much in error then as you are now. Nothing Peter, Paul, James, Jude, or John teach is in contradiction to Jesus. People quite often "twist" what Paul says, (either on purpose of accidentally), which the other apostles agreed upon, to their own "destruction". But those people do that to all the other "scriptures" as well. (2 Peter 3:15-16)


Paul told his people to follow him, not Jesus...


That is a lie, Paul said "Follow me, as I follow Christ Jesus". We look at Paul only as our mentor to what a mature brother in Christ should look like, and act. We look to Jesus Christ for salvation and forgiveness of our sins. We both, us and Paul happily serve (dulos) the same risen Living Savior. Paul was helping people There is only one Lord, but we have many mature brothers and sisters in the Lord to help in our walk with Christ.


Not to mention he admitted to being a murderer, and a liar before he was had his little vision of christ...


So? I was also an evil person before Jesus saved me. He's honest and humble.


Afterwords he still lied, telling his followers Jesus considered himself equal with God, which is simply not true in the least..


Jesus is God, He is God the Son, He isn't the Father and He isn't the Holy Spirit. Thomas also said "My Lord and My God" and wasn't rebuked by Jesus. That's not a "lie", how absurdly rude and offensive. You're just an unbeliever, but don't insult my beliefs as "lies". He came as a man to show all us men who God truly was.


Incorrect!!! .... Paul is a liar... THIS is what Jesus said...


Nope:

Paul: "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed." (Romans 10:9-11)

Jesus: "Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. (Jn. 6:29) And "And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not."(Jn. 6:35-36) and:

"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." And closes His speech with: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life."


Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.


Yes, the unbelievers. Jesus tell you the "will of the Father" in John 6, to believe on Him, to trust in Him. The scripture also says that on that day of Judgment every knee will bow and every tongue will confess Jesus is Lord. Why are you quoting this passage anyways, I thought you said everyone will be saved?

2

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?


Their idea of "salvation" was doing things to impress God instead of believing in Jesus. Their telling everything they did, not trusting in what Jesus did on the cross.


And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


Jesus never knew them. He said in John 6 that all that the Father shall give Him will come to Him, and anyone who came to Him He'd never cast out. Obviously, if Jesus "never knew" them the father didn't give that person to Jesus, they were never Him to begin with. He never knew them, at any time.



and paul barely mentioned any of HIS lessons in his ministry...


You self admit to never reading Paul, you don't know. Paul glorifies Christ and brings Him to the gentiles, He died serving Him, and starting churches. He perfectly taught the commandments Jesus gave for Christians, Love God, love other people. And love was the fulfillment of the law. The same thing Jesus said.


edit on 22-2-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



You're just as much in error then as you are now.


That is your opinion... one that i do not share...


That is a lie, Paul said "Follow me, as I follow Christ Jesus". We look at Paul only as our mentor to what a mature brother in Christ should look like, and act.


16Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

17Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an example.

In two books he said follow me, not follow Christ... Not follow me because i follow Christ... follow me.


So? I was also an evil person before Jesus saved me. He's honest and humble.


Blasphemy against the spirit... IF he murdered, he was not forgiven in this life or the next... so according to you paul is in hell...


Jesus is God, He is God the Son, He isn't the Father and He isn't the Holy Spirit. Thomas also said "My Lord and My God" and wasn't rebuked by Jesus. That's not a "lie", how absurdly rude and offensive. You're just an unbeliever, but don't insult my beliefs as "lies". He came as a man to show all us men who God truly was.


LOL don't be so bloody sensitive, this is a simple conversation... And im not an "unbeliever" i just don't believe what you do...

Like Jesus being God... That is simply false... ONE God my friend, NOT three... NOT three equals one... Your trinity doctrine is fabricated by the early church and you know this, even if you chose not to admit it...

Mark 12:29
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord

Hear that? ONE GOD....


Nope:

Paul: "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed."


yup... he contradicts himself just as much as he contradicts Jesus..



Yes, the unbelievers. Jesus tell you the "will of the Father" in John 6, to believe on Him, to trust in Him. The scripture also says that on that day of Judgment every knee will bow and every tongue will confess Jesus is Lord. Why are you quoting this passage anyways, I thought you said everyone will be saved?


Its not Jesus i have the issue with... its paul. It doesn't say believe in Paul... it says believe in Jesus and his words... And yes everyone WILL be saved... everyone gets a free ticket to the afterlife... THAT is Gods Gift to us.... but that does not mean judgement does not come... it comes for all of us... Meanwhile we can debate biblical issues


You self admit to never reading Paul, you don't know. Paul glorifies Christ and brings Him to the gentiles, He died serving Him, and starting churches. He perfectly taught the commandments Jesus gave for Christians, Love God, love other people. And love was the fulfillment of the law. The same thing Jesus said.


That is incorrect... i didn't say i haven't read pauls work. I said i "don't" read paul... I've read his work many times and have found no use for it... I've also said i admire his views on love... but i don't agree with much of what he taught...

Theres litterally hundreds of sites listing the numerous contradictions from paul... Its just a shame you can't see the obvious faults in his words....




posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 12:01 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


Yes, you do not understand Paul at all, and twist what he says. 1 Corinthians 11:1

"Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ."



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 12:17 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon
 


Yes, you do not understand Paul at all, and twist what he says. 1 Corinthians 11:1

"Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ."


Read the rest of that chapter... it sounds VeRy Gnostic...

and this....

34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.




posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 12:47 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon
 


Yes, you do not understand Paul at all, and twist what he says. 1 Corinthians 11:1

"Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ."


Read the rest of that chapter... it sounds VeRy Gnostic...

and this....

34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.



Check out some expositional commentaries on that chapter. Matthew Henry's Concise is a great one, probably the envy of preachers around the globe. Paul wasn't Gnostic, he knew Jesus came and died in the flesh. He also believed in a bodily resurrection. The Gnostics didn't, that's why their version of Mark has the last 12 verses missing. Paul believed in one God, not two, one evil and one good, one who created the spirit world and one who created the material world.

Paul was certainly not Gnostic. Neither was Jesus.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 01:12 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon
 


Yes, you do not understand Paul at all, and twist what he says. 1 Corinthians 11:1

"Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ."


Read the rest of that chapter... it sounds VeRy Gnostic...

and this....

34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.



Check out some expositional commentaries on that chapter. Matthew Henry's Concise is a great one, probably the envy of preachers around the globe. Paul wasn't Gnostic, he knew Jesus came and died in the flesh. He also believed in a bodily resurrection. The Gnostics didn't, that's why their version of Mark has the last 12 verses missing. Paul believed in one God, not two, one evil and one good, one who created the spirit world and one who created the material world.

Paul was certainly not Gnostic. Neither was Jesus.


I didn't say they were Gnostic...

And i don't care what "the Gostics" believed anymore then i care what "christians" believe... Nor do i care about others opinions of said scripture... i'd rather read it myself then take anothers opinion on if its true or not...

What im saying is.... in that chapter Paul refers to "the man and the woman"... He's speaking about the physical body and the spiritual body... this is the same as Gnostic scripture...

The belief of the body and the spirit in one body...




posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 08:10 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Paul and Jesus say the same things, Paul: "Jesus died for your sins, trust Him." Jesus: "I'm shedding my blood for the forgiveness of sins." Paul; "Jesus died and rose again the 3rd day." Jesus: "I'm going to die and rise again the third day. Paul: "anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved" Jesus: "Anyone who calls upon Me, I will in no wise cast out".


Honestly I am marking this another fad in society and confused interpretation of the bible. Really, a person is a murderer all his life and he calls on the Lord in the last minute and does not go to hell? Just as the sinner who died close to Jesus on another cross? Sometimes we have to look at the picture logically, and know that calling on the name of Jesus will save us but we are saved in life, it's not like one second you are not saved and the next second you are saved because you call on Jesus, I would bet that when you call on Jesus Jesus comes. I think that this life has alot to do with the afterlife, at least initially, so I do ask to be saved for my sins. It is very very logical to believe in this.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 08:20 AM
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Originally posted by OldHag
Is it so difficult to ignore them?


As I wrote my next 2 posts after this one, I realize the true answer to this question. I see that the world Is filled with the flock of Jesus, but the world itself is trying to turn them away. Certainly I am going to show them back.

Why are people taking me so literally on this? I get depressed if I see my exgirlfriend come up and smile in my face while holding her new boyfriend's hand. But also how is it not upsetting when people keep telling you that you are going to die because they are zealous about insanity? I am able to call BS, so be happy with it.


Originally posted by OldHag
What is a FAD?

Just because I use emphasis on a word doesn't mean it's an abbreviation, get a dictionary and increase your vocab.


Originally posted by OldHag
Nope, I won't because the Bible says you are already dead. Because when He died on the cross, whole humanity died, only for them who believe that He is ressurect from between the other dead, get new live with Him!


Dead person, laughing at me and pointing at me with the finger of death, I am life. I am everything inside of life. I am the truth, and I your life, and am learning how to deal with your deep ignorance of everything in you and around you. I am the light, you are the darkness. I am connected, you are apart. I am nothing, you are everything. I am everthing, you are nothing. (both true statements)
edit on 23-2-2012 by greyer because: Flock of Jesus



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 08:30 AM
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Originally posted by MollyStewart
reply to post by greyer
 


For many Christians, their induction into their faith so to speak was via fear based preaching and they simply pass on what they have been taught. I cannot tell you how many times I heard I was going to hell, how much of a sinner I was and the list of my faults that were pointed out to me under the guise of "helping to save me". I discovered on my own that for all the fire and brimstone and judgement, there is hope, compassion, mercy, love and forgiveness.

The latter helped me to understand that those are just some of the qualities we should emulate if we are to have a relationship with Jesus. So perhaps rather than pointing out others failings we could be encouraging people to be more Christ like and lead by example? I think it's worth a mention that whilst many people tend to fall into the doom and gloom trap of worrying about the last days or end of days; some folks simply take it in stride, put their faith in God and try to be as prepared as they can be for any emergency. I will not denigrate someone because they choose to be prepared whether I follow that philosophy or not.

Just some random thoughts.



I think that during your random thoughts there came some profound thoughts, that maybe Jesus was speaking through you if you are not aware that he said to never point out anybody's faults, only work on your own.

This is serious because we communicate with 100s of people every day without even knowing it (body language).

It is the secret. Fear on a subconsciouss level keeps a person from delving spiritually with any spirit especially one so monumental. Simply getting to know the spirit is getting to know the spirit, thats why I know that people are talking too much in the world about things they don't know, or sometimes they don't even know how to talk to people, or sometimes they want to talk about something they don't know for physical purposes. I am not saying it is easy to learn reality but as Jesus taught us - we don't talk to other people about what we don't know, we serve them.

The world is preaching the wrong word. Am I going to preach the right word? No. I am going to show them that I am free in my mind. body. and soul.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by greyer

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Paul and Jesus say the same things, Paul: "Jesus died for your sins, trust Him." Jesus: "I'm shedding my blood for the forgiveness of sins." Paul; "Jesus died and rose again the 3rd day." Jesus: "I'm going to die and rise again the third day. Paul: "anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved" Jesus: "Anyone who calls upon Me, I will in no wise cast out".


Honestly I am marking this another fad in society and confused interpretation of the bible. Really, a person is a murderer all his life and he calls on the Lord in the last minute and does not go to hell?


Yes, because Jesus also died for that murderer. He died for everyone.



Just as the sinner who died close to Jesus on another cross?


Exactly like him. Jesus said "anyone" who called upon Him would be delivered. The thief on the cross and your murderer are included in that group. Jesus highlighted this in His teaching about wages and hiring workers at the 11th hour. He's basically saying, "What's it to you when I save a person? Whether early in life, or right at the end?"


Sometimes we have to look at the picture logically, and know that calling on the name of Jesus will save us but we are saved in life, it's not like one second you are not saved and the next second you are saved because you call on Jesus, I would bet that when you call on Jesus Jesus comes.


It's my belief that you call upon the name of Jesus only after His Spirit has regenerated you. So I think faith and trust and calling out to Him are results of a work His Spirit has already done in you. "Regeneration" comes from two Greek words meaning "new birth". It's what Jesus mentioned to Nicodemus.


I think that this life has alot to do with the afterlife, at least initially, so I do ask to be saved for my sins. It is very very logical to believe in this.


Yes, this life matter, very very much, we only get one chance.



posted on Feb, 24 2012 @ 12:36 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Yes, this life matter, very very much, we only get one chance.

We only get 'ourselves', our 'souls', but the 'chance' lasts however long it lasts, through however many incarnations it takes to learn the lessons, to emulate and be ready to reunite with the Divine Source.
I have to agree with greyer here.....

You seem to be saying that a person can do awful, wrong, sinful things all of his/her life, and at the last breath, simply say "Jesus! I'm sorry! Help me!", and then it'll be all good. You'll be fine.
Sorry, that just doesn't work for me. Too easy, and leaves out too many possibilities.



posted on Feb, 24 2012 @ 01:02 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Real Christians don;'t differ on the principles, (Deity of Christ, Virgin Birth, Resurrection) but differ quite a bit with the application. A lot of the differences in the US are usually type of music, and type of service, not doctrine.

I totally disagree with you on this remark. ^^
'A lot of ' the differences are not the 'type of music, and type of service'; the differences are very much embedded in the doctrine.

The application is the most important thing. How is it you don't get that?

edit on 24-2-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2012 @ 01:14 AM
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Revelation: The end of one's own understanding of the world and the beginning of another understanding of the world.



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