It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by Jordan River
Mods, this is News!
Incredible new discovery may find out that this fragment may be a "missing link" To the new testament as being officialy first century writing, instead of the 2nd century theory. This is amazing and may hold a candle stick as being an official document that may authenticate our newtestament translation. Interesting, very interesting in my opinion. I find this very fascinating, but I also believe we are at a pivotal point in history, with vatican corruption/issues
www.wnd.com
(visit the link for the full news article)
Originally posted by Bearack
In reality, about 80% of the original writings were excluded from the final cannon at the first council of nicea. The book we read today wasn't cannonized until about 350 after Jesus Christ death.
Oh, did I mention that the person who initiated the first council of nicea was a Pagon?edit on 21-2-2012 by Bearack because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by palg1
reply to post by fulllotusqigong
1. Please remember that Marcion did not believe that Jesus was related to the God of the Jews, and therefore did not recognize the validity of the old testament.
2. Marcion's idea for the written Gospel was innovative for the Christian era and church historians give him that credit, but remember that that he was a dualist who only recognized the gospel of Luke and the letters of Paul as authentic. Everything else was "gnostic" and was therefore heretical. Please note that It is widely believed by the church and contemporary historians that Marcion himself edited some of those writings in order to suit his message.
3. The Marcionic cult was eventually assimilated into mainstream Christianity before the end of the forth century.
In other words, even the Christians of the day held his teaching and his methods to account and chose other paths to follow.edit on 21-2-2012 by palg1 because: just a few missing details.
First of all, while discussing the non-canonical Christian texts that were presumably considered in some circles also to be divinely inspired, when Price emphasizes that the history of the formation of the New Testament canon is underestimated in importance, he is not exaggerating. For example, upon inspection the various Nag Hammadi texts must not be dismissed merely as the weird rantings of some bizarre Gnostic sect, as they were evidently as "orthodox" as any others prior to the decrees of Pope Athanasius of Alexandria in 367 AD/CE. These texts, then, must be factored into what constituted early Christianity, not just as examples of Gnosticism or even as "Gnostic Christianity." The fact that they were hidden indicates their concealers were squarely considered part of the Christian church and only "heretical" if they had belligerently retained these texts. Many of Price's conclusions, such as that the canonical Gospel of John itself was likely a Gnostic text, will come as a surprise to some, but such assertions are based on logic founded upon the evidence, not on irrational and prejudicial belief with no scientific basis. Concerning John's gospel, Price writes: "As for the vexing question of gospel authorship, we may immediately dismiss the claim that it was one of the twelve disciples of Jesus." (p. 667)
Other of Price's more interesting and surprising conclusions appear under the section exploring the date and authorship of the Gospel of Mark, concerning which Price states: Like the other gospels, Mark seems to come from the mid-second century CE. Probably the crucial piece of evidence for dating the book is the Olivet Discourse, or the Little Apocalypse as Timothee Colani dubbed it, constituting chapter 13 of the gospel. It appears to have been an independent apocalyptic pamphlet circulating on the eve of the Roman destruction of Jerusalem and its temple. Mark picked it up and made it part of his text; but which destruction and which temple were portrayed? As Hermann Detering has shown, the warnings of dangers and dooms outlined in the text fit better the destruction of city and temple during the Roman campaign against the messianic King Simon bar-Kochba in CE 136 than in CE 70 as is usually assumed. This means that Mark has absorbed an earlier document that already stemmed from the third of the second century CE. (p. 69) (Emphasis added.) Thus, the suggestion arises that the gospel of Mark - considered by many to be the earliest of the canonical gospels - must have been composed after the destruction of 135 CE. In supporting this late dating of the canonical gospels, Price cites various anachronisms within Mark, such as "the depiction of synagogues scattered throughout Galilee when in fact they seem to have been largely confined to Judea before 70 CE…" (pp. 69-70) Dr. Price further makes the startling but logical connection between the "heretic" Marcion and the evangelist Mark. In his association of Marcion with Mark, Price comments: We may also note the clear Marcionite tendency of the gospel, with its unremittingly scathing portrayal of the disciples of Jesus as utter failures to carry on the Christian legacy. Indeed, it is not unlikely the subsequent choice of the ascription "Mark" reflects the name of Marcion, the early-to-mid second century champion of Paulinism. (p. 70) It is interesting that the word for "Mark" in Greek is Markos and in Latin Marcus, the latter being the name of "three leading Gnostics," one of whom is depicted by Church father Adamantius (4th cent.) as a Marcionite defender. Moreover, in his Dialogue Adamantius concurred with the assertion of early Church father and bishop Papias (fl. c. 130 CE) that the evangelist Mark had never heard or been a follower of Christ. (Catholic Encyclopedia, "St. Mark")
Originally posted by rebellender
are we just now going to discover a truth?
Deny Ignorance...If we all live our lives in Faith...
Faith was never meant to be blind faith. Faith was always meant to be a faith guided by revealed truth. . .But the demands are so much greater now. Now we can see better how easily we err and how easily we stray. We need a better way to seek out truth, to assimilate the jewels of all our religious teaching into one universal faith founded in knowledge that we can verify as we do the facts of science. . .No one who believes in the truth of any of the world's great religions should fear losing any essential part of that faith by testing its truth against what we can learn with this new science. Those willing to discover an even greater truth in their religion will find untold wonders hidden in what they already believe.
I have my reasons for my anger but on an anonymous forum how do you know anything which I think. Only what I write.
Originally posted by Jordan River
Originally posted by rickymouse
They need to find someone who knows nothing about the writings of mark in the bible. A christian who knows our version will translate it to what he knows. The bible we read now was translated many times throughout history and even though there may be no intent, things change.
agreed but everything remains consistant within the new testament, philosophy and other subjects such as trinity. This is important when you compare christianity to other religions, (other three, islam, judaism) Islam has no real strong theological philosophical background, principles and the such. Judaism does not answer the question to evil, which I believe is an issue
example. 3... father son holy spirit (ghost)
3rd dimension that we live in. Trinity (short exmaple)edit on 20-2-2012 by Jordan River because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by jimbo999
I disagree. There is just 'one fragment' that may be 1st century according to reports. That fragment may only contain a few words. So to assert that somehow the new testament is somehow 'more authentic' because of this fragment is an exercise in futility. It proves nothing in all likelihood. The 'Trinity" and other such concepts were added to the NT much later than the 1st Cen. at the behest of the new Christian authorities - led by the Roman Emperor. The NT has been changed and re-written countless times...edit on 22-2-2012 by jimbo999 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by rebellender
reply to post by Jordan River
How do you know, were you there!!! You cant say either way. Nobody can. WIKI yeah, all of the sudden wiki knows the story, my foot and my backside.
Wikipedia: the know all answer page of the super computer hi-way. Invented by Al Gore
Forget modern scholars: wiki has the answers, how pathetic
Originally posted by Jordan River
Originally posted by rebellender
reply to post by Jordan River
How do you know, were you there!!! You cant say either way. Nobody can. WIKI yeah, all of the sudden wiki knows the story, my foot and my backside.
Wikipedia: the know all answer page of the super computer hi-way. Invented by Al Gore
Forget modern scholars: wiki has the answers, how pathetic
Honestly I am not that interested what became of the NT, more of the first period (first century) than the next 600 years, religioon is more political than the core beliefs anyway. I'm sure God wants you all to be in a specific party/religiion/group/factionedit on 22-2-2012 by Jordan River because: (no reason given)edit on 22-2-2012 by Jordan River because: (no reason given)