History Repeats?

ARE WE ON TRESHOLD OF AN 4E EMPIRE???....... I NOTICED LOTS OF SIMULAIRITY'S LATELY WITH THE 1930 /40YEARS..
HATE AGAINST THE JEWS ARE NOW AGAINST THE ARABICS...
ANEXATION OFAUSTRIA/POLAND COMPAIRS WITH AFGHANISTAN AND IRAK..
SINCE WE KNOW WAT THE 3E EMPIRE HAVE GAVE US WE SHOULD BE SCARED ABOUT IT....



EDIT: Brought to you by the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to ALL-CAPS.

[edit on 19-9-2004 by Kano]

Those who refuse to read history, are dommed to repeat it.

Those who read history but don't attempt to understand it are bound for paranoia...

the allusion to poland and afganistan are not at all similar, either in political situation or any other issue.

If you have George Bush, come out and say so, but this ridiculous similie with Nazi Germany is more appropos to FRANCE than the US. It is in France that hatred for Jews is rising, and it is in France that religious expression is being suppressed.

In the US, there is no hatred for Islam (oh, maybe by a few chuckleheads, but nothing even on the scale of France) nor is there a pogrom against them, nor calls for their expulsion, nor anything even similar.

So that allusion is really only and ILLUSION.

If you really think about it, the world is just as bad overall today as was during the the 1930s: A recession, hurricanes and droughts, the neverending Iraq struggle, a renewed Hollywood, and two new menaces on the horizon. The 2008 Olympics is just as important to China as was the 1936 Olympics was for Nazi Germany. Meanwhile, as China continues to hog the business publications, India simply cannot be ignored as was the case for the Soviet Union. Both China and India have the advantage of building an empire from the ground up whereas the United States and Europe must go through endless public hearings and red tape to get anything done on a wide scale.

The big question is, what path will the two rising nations take once they've retained superpower status? The utilization of their powers for greed as was the case in Europe in the "dirty-30s", one of using their resourses for philantrophy as the U.S. has always done, or end up as Japan becoming completely reclusive. Only time will tell since both nations have shown to be anything but shy yet fully capable of being poetic. If you believe the Edgar Cayce readings than what will most likely occur would be of a policy of non belligerence.

As for the U.S.A., I don't think they pose any threat to the world at all. Time Magazine has just recently reported that it's still far too easy to illegally gain access into the U.S.

I have to admit, I read your post, searching for a point, and just did not find one. Your logic is weak, and you make no cogent argument for anything, just statements of your opinion.

So, have you got a point?

Originally posted by risitar
India simply cannot be ignored as was the case for the Soviet Union.

To the answer to the thread question I don't think so. As I said in a thread before tt is human to find relations between two totally unrelated things, when they find one that they think fits, they label it as being true, without looking at the whole and rather looking at the ones that support their argument.

Originally posted by surfup
[To the answer to the thread question I don't think so. As I said in a thread before tt is human to find relations between two totally unrelated things, when they find one that they think fits, they label it as being true, without looking at the whole and rather looking at the ones that support their argument.

Isn't that the essential definition of a konspiracy kook? to make an association between two unrelated or seeminingly related items, and from that create a whole different reality?

Yes of course, the more stupid the history as revealing profit for a few, the more it is repeated with different stages, lighting, ambiance, and so forth.

The whole thing is the same Punch and Judy puppet show, with different characters to be sure, but with puppetmasters who know where the money can be too easily coined. It is the same tired thing, and it is deliberately programmed that way. Try as you might to illustrate this, a few people will always repeat the same conditions, and profit. It is a far more powerful incentive, with willing participants who fall for the same mendacities promoting nationalism, jingoism, and heavy profits in demolition strategies. Too bad they don't usually evacuate the civilian population, while they are demolishing and breaking things for the next round of usury which requires usury to fund further usury.

Why not spend the money on say a Guaranteed Annual Income, and boost production? Productive people will want more than that of course, but you eliminate boom bust cycles, where elites buy up things for pennies on the dollar. Well the elite think they are less elite when the body of the population is healthy, and able to compete with their view of being the capstone of the pyramid. In the modern digital world, it is possible to have a far higher quality society, indeed the progress of science is the transformation of quality into quantify. The troubles we are having are entirely controlled, because the elite are not willing to cede what they view as control, but is really their own version of a decreasing quality of life for most people, so they can lord over others and inflate their self centered existence. How much better they would be with general prosperity.

[edit on 19-9-2004 by SkipShipman]

some many posts just have no point are based in myth or complete opinnion or are totally fake just to rant on the US. Just a total anti american attitude which is dumb, if it wasn't for america europe would be speaking german

Originally posted by Smokeythebear
some many posts just have no point are based in myth or complete opinnion or are totally fake just to rant on the US. Just a total anti american attitude which is dumb, if it wasn't for america europe would be speaking german

AMEN!!

Originally posted by theron dunn

Isn't that the essential definition of a konspiracy kook? to make an association between two unrelated or seeminingly related items, and from that create a whole different reality?

Thank You.

Yep, Conspiracy look is a type of illusory correlation.

Originally posted by risitar
If you really think about it, the world is just as bad overall today as was during the the 1930s: A recession,

The globe's economy is nothing like the poo-storm that it was in the 30's.

hurricanes and droughts,

These have nothing to do with history, being weather.

the neverending Iraq struggle,

What about iraq now is like iraq when it was a relatively peaceful colony of Britain.

Both China and India have the advantage of building an empire

What imperial asperations has india engaged in recently? Even china doesn't seem particulalry expansionistic.

The big question is, what path will the two rising nations take once they've retained superpower status? The utilization of their powers for greed as was the case in Europe in the "dirty-30s", one of using their resourses for philantrophy as the U.S. has always done, or end up as Japan becoming completely reclusive.
Japan in the 30's was the total opposite of being 'reclusive'. If it was less active on the world scene after the world war, well perhaps occupation and the dismantling of their military. And even then Japan was still active in international business, hardly reclusive. North Korea after the war, now thats reclusive, or the US in the interwar period.

On the other hand, there is a strong resurgence of Nationalism in various european states, which isn't 'bad' in and of itself, and there is a strong potential for struggle between it an a new (noncommunist) Internationalism, represented by things like the WTO, EU, UN, and various other acronyms.

History repeating itself?

Well...you could make a good argument that in some ways it does. For instance, historically there has been a depression about every 20 years or so. To make a case for history repeating itself in that fashion there is good evidence to suggest that, yes, it does. However, as people have said before, sometimes people think totally unrelated events ARE related when in fact there appears to be no real connection.

I'm not going to go any farther into this, because its too early in the morning for serious thought.

To answer your question. Yes, in some ways...no, in others!

The geopolitical world-stage isn't seeing a repeat performance right now; what IS repeating is the threadposter's attitude.

I mean this perennial urge of the bored high school student, to find evidence that we are about to enter some diabolical, important, or at least interesting phase of history.

I think it comes from an active mind without the opportunity to travel or engage the ideas of the day. When I was in high school, the same people were sure that USSR was about to invade the west, or vice versa.

It is the wish that something would happen, even if it's BAD. Especially if you see yourself as being held back by your own age, inexperience, and lack of social position, you daydream that a revolution would propel you into a position of leadership. Worked for Robespierre, right?

In the early 1930's, millions of Americans were homeless, several thousand starved to death. Not the same.

A half dozen developing nations were turning to the ultra-nationalism of fascism in order to rapidly develop their infrastructures. Not the same.

Free trade was believed to be the cause of the world-wide recession; the antidote was to create central bureaucracies that could issue fiat money, like the Federal Reserve in US; Reichsbank in Germany. Not the same.

People were hoping that big government would produce individual prosperity and happiness. Not the same.

+ + + + +


If I were looking for a parallel period in history, I'd probably choose the 1890's:

A world with no clear polarity; one 'super-power' (UK then, US now) who is unable to enforce it's will without the support of its own rivals for power.

An economy that shows signs of stagnation due to overproduction.

A large minority of Americans who believe that the rich control politics; this minority (the Grange movement then; the Democrats now) is able to offer a blistering critique of the status quo, and even make a credible run for the presidency (william Jennings Bryan), but it cannot present a workable alternative.

The Arab world wrestles with the question of how to deal effectively with the west. Should it Industrialize? Does industrialization automatically mean westernization, and the loss of Muslim identity? The leading muslim power (Ottoman then, Saudi now) is a regime who's titular head teeters on the brink of incompetance, and uses it's financial power and religious aura to try and maintain the status quo, even as doing so brings it on a collision course with the west.

+++++++

Do I believe my thesis any more than the Thread originator's? Of course not, I'm just pointing out how you can do the same with ANY period of History, as long as you substitute generalizations for evidence.

An excellent point of view, Strangecraft.

Where would yuo fit China in the framework you've drawn ?

Originally posted by LTD602
An excellent point of view, Strangecraft.

Where would yuo fit China in the framework you've drawn ?

If see China as a growing power that is going to step into world race, you could compare it with U.S. before the World War 1 and Spanish war. At that time U.S. had some internal problems, like China has now.

I am not that good of a history buff to go into the comparision in detail.

Personally, I'd continue my analogy with the 1890's-1912

China in 2004 most resembles Japan before 1905. Japan at the end of the 19th century had rapidly industrialized by copying western technology and production, but lacked the economy of scale to rival the west. Most people don't realize it; although China today has the largest total population, its economy in dollar terms is roughly equal to the state of California.

China will not be a serious rival with US, or Europe, for another 25 to 50 years, in my opinion. They have copied American dependence on petroleum, yet they have a very limited reserve to work with. Althought this doesn't fit the analogy of 19th century, I personally am looking for a downturn in China's economy over the next decade.

The one thing that put Japan on the (western world's) map was the Japanese/Russian war of 1905. The Japanese navy trounced the Russian fleet, which had sailed all the way from Europe, around Africa in order to meet a crushing defeat. That single battle by Admiral Tojo convinced the west that Japan was a real threat.

Diplomatically, the Chinese have made India extremely nervous. China's best bet is to form a long-term alliance with Russia.

Incedentally, I would compare Japan today with a small European state of the late 1890's. Fully developed economically, but lacking territorial ambitions--yet tenacious enough to frighten off any would-be attackers. Maybe Switserland, or Portugal of the 19th cent with its holdings left in Africa . . .

If you have George Bush, come out and say so, but this ridiculous similie with Nazi Germany is more appropos to FRANCE than the US. It is in France that hatred for Jews is rising, and it is in France that religious expression is being suppressed.

The Frenchies make for great scapegoats eh?