NASA Disclosure

Originally posted by Cosmic911
I agree...mostly. Lol. But if a highly trained pilot-astronaut has identified a bogey that he or she can't explain...and it's not space junk or debris.....:

I'm presuming you're referring to the 'bogey' quotation by Frank Borman on Gemini-7?

I'm going to ask a question that may seem really, really unusual to you: Do you know of anybody who actually has asked Borman if he said it and if so, what he meant by it?

And a second question: isn't that an OBVIOUS thing to do before basing your entire world-view on stories such as this?

Originally posted by Cosmic911

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by Cosmic911
Actually, I believe the astronaut says, "Alien Space Craft." Search youtube for secret NASA transmission. It should be easy to find.

Actually, while I don't doubt you believe this nonsense, why does it make it credible for anyone ELSE to believe it? Who originated this story? You can't just say, 'It's out there on the Internet, so it's true."

Profound rebuttal...

The English of which is, "It's out there on the Internet, and that's GOOD ENOUGH for ME!"

It's a fair question. Please take a swing at answering it fairly.

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by cloudyday
//// There are probably NASA employees that see UFOs, but I'm sure they just fill-out a report and send it to some agency like NORAD or file it in the miscellaneous file because they don't know what to do with it.

You being 'sure' of something you've dreamed up to conform to your existing beliefs, is not evidence. How about FOIA'ing such materials you imagine MUST exist? Ever tried it? Has ANYBODY ever tried it, or is merely daydreaming to be accepted as an adequate basis for fervent beliefs?

I guess I imagined that just as commercial pilots and air force pilots have the JANAP 146 procedure that there must be an equivalent for NASA employees and contractors. I'm not talking about astronauts sighting an unknown in space; I'm talking about Joe Schmoe contractor at Cape Kennedy seeing something while he's eating his banana on lunch break.

Originally posted by cloudyday

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by cloudyday
//// There are probably NASA employees that see UFOs, but I'm sure they just fill-out a report and send it to some agency like NORAD or file it in the miscellaneous file because they don't know what to do with it.

You being 'sure' of something you've dreamed up to conform to your existing beliefs, is not evidence. How about FOIA'ing such materials you imagine MUST exist? Ever tried it? Has ANYBODY ever tried it, or is merely daydreaming to be accepted as an adequate basis for fervent beliefs?

I guess I imagined that just as commercial pilots and air force pilots have the JANAP 146 procedure that there must be an equivalent for NASA employees and contractors. I'm not talking about astronauts sighting an unknown in space; I'm talking about Joe Schmoe contractor at Cape Kennedy seeing something while he's eating his banana on lunch break.

Could be -- so wouldn't those 'anomaly reports' be FOIA fodder? And under what authority would an employee's disclosure of them to outsiders be forbidden? It's just that there are so many assumptions people make that essentially forces a set of desired conclusions, absent any real data at all. This applies to all human beings, not just adherents of any particular beliefs. We all need to beware falling into such an abbreviated-thinking trap.

We're getting a little off-topic here...

BTW -- I've played the FOIA game with NASA and they can and do refuse release for cockamamie reasons [not UFO relayed in the cases I've worked]. And their spox are just as likely to bluff or BS as the next rep. That's the way it seems to work -- if we can figure out to live with it and make our way through the snares and detours.

reply to post by Cosmic911


The problem I have is the people who are sworn to secrecy who feel that our government or NASA has the right to keep the most important issue to mankind secret. How can you keep such a secret from your fellow man when you know deep down it's the basic right for the people of the world to know we are not alone in the universe.

Some of you guys would see a UFO land, aliens walk out of it and go to them and try to pull their masks off. Then insist that they're wearing masks and you just can't get them off. Then demand that they fly you to their planet, whereupon you would walk around trying to figure out how this whole big hoax is being perpetrated on you. LOL! I have much respect for your mindset. I just think it's amusing.

Originally posted by WeRpeons
reply to post by Cosmic911

 

The problem I have is the people who are sworn to secrecy who feel that our government or NASA has the right to keep the most important issue to mankind secret. How can you keep such a secret from your fellow man when you know deep down it's the basic right for the people of the world to know we are not alone in the universe.

And you know such people exist at NASA -- how, exactly? Isn't that circular reasoning -- that since they won't confirm your belief that UFOs are real, they are proven liars, so when they say they have no UFO evidence, that proves there is such evidence?

Boy, I get mental whiplash just trying to follow that logic ....

By the way -- sorry for BUNCHES of typos in recent messages!!!

reply to post by JimOberg


What about Edgar Mitchell? Gordon Cooper? Are they lying too?

reply to post by Cosmic911


I agree, you also have to think about the ramifications of proving that E.T.'s exist, there would most likely be mass chaos.

Originally posted by radkrish
reply to post by JimOberg

 

What about Edgar Mitchell? Gordon Cooper? Are they lying too?

Who says anybody is lying? The question is -- can such assertions be shown to be worthy of belief?

Mitchell just reports he believes stories other people have told him. He saw nothing himself, in his years at NASA, or before or since.

Have you read any research into Cooper's stories, where investigatgors checked out any other witnesses and contemporary documentation? Has this ever been disclosed? What might it show? Why would it be important?

Or do you consider such steps superfluous?

Serious question --- and I have my own answers I'll be happy to share in turn.

reply to post by Cosmic911


well you could be right. I thought about this several times.Could the transmissions actually be something like the smoking gun! I mean a trained astronaut and observer talking about a spacecraft and taggin along ore saying we got visitors again, cmon doesn't get any better you would think.
If this is the case that NEVER A STRAIGHT ANSWER is trying to give us little pieces here then they need to give us something much bigger. people still wont believe that something is going on out there.
imagine nasa would leak a picture to the public that clearly indicates that there is something up there with them, even if it was a genuine picture very sharp in detail. People would still say it is a ice crystals, lens flare, or venus lol.
People or so in denial that they probably would claim it was a space baloon

Isn't looking for aliens and exterestrial craft exciting? Since man has been to the moon, nothing as adventurous has smitten the world since. So in our mundane lives, this becomes the new adventure. But this adventure is open to all of us not just a select few. We are no different than the ancients looking for God. It keeps creativity alive with discussions, debates and for some a hope that it is true.

Man has wanted answers from the first creative civilization. Somewhere in man's creative consciousness, that is timeless, has there been this nagging idea of "What's up there" Thousand upon thousand of years of many trillion of brain cells have been asking this question.

I don't think it's just the quest to find aliens, I think it's the detective in humans that want to discover a higher entity than ourselves.
But how lovely that we, in our time, have the resources to go out there and have this adventure.

reply to post by discostu123


I understand your point. The shear numbers make it a possibility that someone who "spill the beans." Look, even the Manhatten Project was infiltrated by spies. But something to consider is this, how many of those NASA employees, contractors, and sub-contractors are going to willfully violate their security oaths? How many of those workers are going to risk their pension, retirement, and family financial security? I'm willing to bet not many. I'm sure I would not.

reply to post by Cosmic911

I understand your point. The shear numbers make it a possibility that someone who "spill the beans." Look, even the Manhatten Project was infiltrated by spies. But something to consider is this, how many of those NASA employees, contractors, and sub-contractors are going to willfully violate their security oaths? How many of those workers are going to risk their pension, retirement, and family financial security? I'm willing to bet not many. I'm sure I would not.

But you might if you were fired. There have been huge cuts in the aerospace industry, yet no-one has "gotten back" at NASA by "spilling the beans."

reply to post by DJW001


Very true, but even former employees are bound by security oaths. I still wouldn't risk prison.

Nasa are scientists. They have admited there are things they cant explain. Scientist generally dont make claims without some facts. They dont admit to aliens because they dont know. They admit there are unexplained phenomena. If they had evidence to back up a claim of alien existence they would probably admit it. Its also possible thwy are afraid to investigate unexplained possible advanced alien tech where it might alert some aluens that we have tampered with things they left behind.

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by objectman

Scaling back NASA while encouraging civilian / private space flight might be the disclosure as well. They won't be able to keep the secret when its seen by civilian / private individuals. A verified sighting by civilians would be an easy way for the government to step in and investigate the encounter and announce it is what the people claimed.

True. And while the privateers go up and take happy snaps of the worrisome discs, NASA will burn all the evidence they have to cover the lie, or at least digitise the info and seal it up for the uber-rich.

Robert Bigelow has already been operating two space modules in orbit with exterior TV cameras -- why do you suppose HE would not disclose 'UFO pictures' if he had them?

You need to consider another alternate explanation -- the entire body of 'space UFO' myths is bunk, promoted by eager-believers and intentional con artists.

So are you saying that is your opinion on the matter? This 'space UFO' is a bunk bit....

reply to post by Xeven


I wouldn't mind them saying..."we got a video of something flying over there..but have no sufficient data to say what it is...here is a video in the public domain...see what you think of it"

...instead we have...."hey, what is that strange light that seems to be flying and rapidly changing direction and was caught on your video while in orbit...errrr...that's...space junk or lens flare...take your pick...oooooor ice particles"

This is one of the funnier ones IMO...

www.youtube.com...

Can't seem to find it now...but I'm pretty sure it was ice particles for this one.
I'm not a scientist most definatelly, but explaining this video as anything else but a unknown (or maybe known) craft, is pure nonsense. Garbage that I won't take any authorities word for.




here is a better link STS-48

I think it is unlikely that astronauts have actually seen a unexplainable UFO in space. Let's say Project Blue Book covered 17 years for 300 million observers and had 701 unknowns. Now let's assume we've averaged 3 astronauts in space for the past 17 years. The probability for an astronaut sighting is 701 * 10^-8 or about 1 chance in 100,000. Maybe I made a math error, but the probability is astronomically small for an astronaut to see a UFO in space. If all these reported astronauts UFO encounters were true we would have a puzzle to explain why astronauts are more likely to see a UFO than a person on Earth.

Originally posted by Cosmic911
reply to post by DJW001

 

Very true, but even former employees are bound by security oaths. I still wouldn't risk prison.

Don't you recognize this as a self-fulfilling fantasy?

NASA won't talk about UFOs.

This proves the coverup is powerful, and that UFOs are real.

Actually, as I've mentioned before, NASA does respond to questions about specific videos and claims -- it's just that the responses don't confirm the UFO believers' views, so the responses are spiked, thrown away, covered up, not put out on the Internet.

Then buffs can go on believing that 'NASA never comments'.

Borman's 'bogey' quote was brought up, and I asked if anybody knew Borman's response to questions about that story. Nobody did. So it seems the coverup of inconvenient testimony -- or its deliberate denial even of existence -- is pretty widespread on these threads.