Santorum telling ridiculous lies about my country

Originally posted by zatara
reply to post by SergeantTrammelant

 

I live in The Netherlands, and dutch, and I can confirm anything you say...as can everybody else. Google is our friend..on this one.

S&F

edit on 20/2/2012 by zatara because: (no reason given)

Same here.

Why are you mad at him? Obama is the one who legalized death panels....Oh but hes the first black us president so everything he says and does is right and if you challenge him you are a biggot.

For those who dont think death panels will exist, you are naive and nothing but a sheep.

Originally posted by AphexTwins

Originally posted by Flatfish

Originally posted by Malcher
This thread is the first time i read bout this. Did a search and went to page 10 of the results.

Found this article from 2004. Seems this comes from a book.

Doctors in the Netherlands are also renowned for withholding treatment from psychiatric patients and the elderly. It is no secret that the elderly often avoid hospitalization for fear they will be put to death. In response to this trend, thousands of Dutch people carry papers or where bracelets that say “do not euthanize me.”

www.wnd.com...

There may be some truth to it.

How would we know if it was or was not true?

Do they Euthanize old people?

Good question, and a good find as well. After reading this article linked in your post, I would venture to say that this is, more than likely, the source for the story that Santorum has chosen to speak about, which makes your questions quite pertinent. So, is it true or not, that is indeed the question.

OP explained it well enough, people do have a card that states whether they want to be euthanized or not, it's practically the same as an organ donor card, it's to remind doctors that the patient has a declaration of intent concerning euthanasia. It's used in cases where the patient is unable to communicate anymore, if the patient chose not to be euthanized according to his/her declaration of intent his/her family won't even have a choice in it.

It's baffling how unworldly some of the candidates are

edit on 20-2-2012 by AphexTwins because: discrepancies

Dont be so fast to judge this and at times like this it is more important to look into things.

www.life.org.nz...

Doctors and Hospital Boards are increasingly winning Court battles that give them the right to withdraw and withhold treatment from disabled and terminally ill patients. Those opposed to EAS believe that this is happening for economic reasons. Individual autonomy has increasingly given way to decision-making by health care professionals and bioethicists, whose "futile care theory" measures the value of human life according to the financial cost of keeping the individual alive. In Holland where euthanasia is legal many people now carry anti-euthanasia passports' because they are afraid they may be killed if admitted to hospital. 9

That is NOT from an American source.

What is scary about this is that the elderly and mentally ill are easy to marginalize. They are easier to fall through the cracks, especially if they have no one to "go to bat for them" are alone or not wealthy.

The economy goes / gets bad and corners need to be cut they go after the weakest links and that would be the elderly and mentally ill even before criminals, who have lawyers and other advocates.

More from that source (since you guys are not even looking into this):

The Lancet, estimated that in 2001, Dutch doctors euthanised some 3,000 patients, assisted in the suicide of about 140 patients - but ended "life without patient's explicit request" for some 840 patients.

reply to post by Rafe_

A am sitting here with my jaw to the floor..... This should get posted around some dutch sites it WILL reach the news.

It actually has reached a couple of Dutch news outlets:

www.spitsnieuws.nl...

www.rtl.nl... n.xml

www.zorgvisie.nl...


Spits Nieuws call Santorums remarks fairy tales. Other news simply quote Santorum with a tone of contempt. Everyone back here basically agrees that Santorum is simply painting a false picture.


On page 1 someone posted an article supporting Santorums claims. I will take another look into that and research some stuff. I skimmed through it and it is pretty bizarre. Possibly there is confusion with the fact that some people have a card, bracelet or tattoo that says 'do not revive'. I've heard of that before.

I think it is a requirement of politics these days to be clinically insane. What a #ing retard

This is just another reason to why people who live in other countries label Americans as been a stupid race their really are dumb aint they. Who votes for these type of people honestly?

From what little I have read about Santorum, he makes Palin look intellectual.

The U.S. Republican party has gone completely off the map for this guy to even be considered a possible nominee, let alone the current front runner.

reply to post by nightstalker78


Problem with half-brains aka Sheeple and if they aren't half brained they are already dead and still registered to vote! Scary I recall reading almost 2 million are dead and are still registered vote but nothing was said if they found out if their(the dead) votes were actually casted. I also read in the same thread that people that have never voted are registering to vote in the primaries just to sabotage the GOP.

reply to post by Maponos


Why dont you actually ADD something to the thread? I am NOT a Republican, never voted for a Republican, BUT I am not willingly to blindly follow and attack for the party line.

Point being, there are too many unsourced, unthought out, off topic posts.

Do you remember what the topic is?

reply to post by avatard


RP has no respect for a woman's rights to her own body either. Why doesn't that bother you?

Originally posted by P12SOLD
This is just another reason to why people who live in other countries label Americans as been a stupid race their really are dumb aint they. Who votes for these type of people honestly?

Xenophobes.
Nationalists.
The generally ill-educated.
Anti-Intellectualists.
Religious Extremists.
People who have never, and don't intend to, ever travel outside US borders.
People who don't like anyone from outside US borders inside US borders.
People who think the Cold War is still ongoing.
People that think everything not "American" is inferior or evil.
People that think "Socialism is evil" no matter the degree.

Unfortunately, we seem to have a lot of them in this nation and their proportion within the population has an inverse relationship with population density.

Originally posted by SergeantTrammelant
I just stumbled upon a clip of Rick Santorum. It's actually quite unbelievable.

In The Netherlands, people wear a different bracelet. And the bracelet is.. 'Do Not Euthanize Me'. Because involuntary euthanasia (?) .. in The Netherlands... about half the people who are euthanized every year (and it's 10% of all deaths in The Netherlands) .... half of those people are euthanized involuntarily at hospitals.

So elderly people in The Netherlands don't go to the hospital. They go to another country. Because they are afraid, because of budget purposes, that they will not come out of that hospital.

I cannot even begin to describe how false these statements are. Nobody wears such a bracelet. I did a search on the internet and it does not appear to even exist.

Euthanasia is a very delicate subject in my country. It is legal to perform if requested by a terminally ill patient and is required by law to be carried out by 2 doctors. Any doctor may refuse the operation at any time.

If the person is being kept alive by machines in a hospital and not in a consicous state and there is no hope for recovery, it is the family that decides to eventually stop the machines. No one ever gets euthanized because of a doctors decision, as Mr. Santorum is implying.


How people can vote for this man is really beyond me.

edit on 19/2/12 by SergeantTrammelant because: (no reason given)

This man is a unbelievable liar, NONE of what he said about the Netherlandsis true. Also I can not believe some Americans are actually voting for this lying piece of poop.

As Sarge says doctors don't have those rights, doctor's actually are the ones who try to talk people out of euthanisations 9 out of 10 times. You have to make it clear in your will who you give that right to.

Also it isn't so easy to practice euthinisation in the Netherlands, it isn't that easy to get permission for euthanisation. It is almost impossible actually, it's a legal and psycological battle to get permission almost without end. You have to proof to several doctors and psycologist that euthanisation is your only option. Even when you do have legal permission it doesn't always mean you will be euthanized.

This lying bastard needs to get his facts straight before talking about another country, this pisses me off!
What he is doing no is spreading lies upon lies.

I think its high time the republicans stop using parody news sources for their understanding of the world

wnd is not news, its noise..its batboy and lobstergirl but for politics (arguably less credible than the examiner come to think of it).
Now we have a main runner for the republican party that thinks batboy is real (uses wnd and other "news" sources as his understanding).

Intelligence does matter when electing someone folks...just because you would enjoy having a fishing trip with the person does not mean they should run the country and have a finger on the nukes.

i would never trust a guy whos last name is a word for a jizz&poo mixture

reply to post by SergeantTrammelant


Santorum is Santorum. Not everybody in the US thinks like him. It is unfortunate, but there are many unthinking folks who believe anything the shiniest candidate says. Not all of us are like this, though, I promise you.

On point:

We have essentially the same thing as the "card/bracelet" Santorum is referring to in the US - it is called a Living Will.

Everyone should have one.

Granted, most people aren't going to be carrying one in their wallet, but it is still important.

Also, OP, you need to remember that people like O'Reilly are not news reporters, they are commentators.

Any show with a person's name in the title will be about that person's opinion. Opinions are not news!

All major news channels have commentators, not all commentators on news channel reflect every ideal held by the news channel's owners, viewers, etc.

That said, the Netherlands video compilations are great responses to misconceptions.

reply to post by ottobot


Living Will is different. You must be thinking of a DNR - Do Not Resuscitate.

en.wikipedia.org...

Difference is that you need to already be dead.

I bet all of his supporters and alot of "average" americans are eating it up.


"Look Cletus, that dang Netherlands country kills it's people! Those dang middle east countries is evil! We should just nuke all those dang nab muslims! Yeehaw!"

reply to post by Malcher


No, I am talking about a Living Will. (

Originally posted by Malcher
This thread is the first time i read bout this. Did a search and went to page 10 of the results.

Found this article from 2004. Seems this comes from a book.

Doctors in the Netherlands are also renowned for withholding treatment from psychiatric patients and the elderly. It is no secret that the elderly often avoid hospitalization for fear they will be put to death. In response to this trend, thousands of Dutch people carry papers or where bracelets that say “do not euthanize me.”

www.wnd.com...

There may be some truth to it.

How would we know if it was or was not true?

Do they Euthanize old people?

well, that book spreads nonsense, I'm afraid.
They do indeed euthanize people in the Netherlands, as they do in Belgium. Not especially elderly, but people who qualify (you can't simply ask for it just because you like it) and who went tru a harsh procedure that has been installed to check if a person is indeed qualified (for example, in Belgium you have to be terminally ill with an irreversible disease, to start with. 3 doctors have to agree and perform actions in the process) and to prevent abuse.
But then again such a procedure can't prevent morons from spreading fear and urban legends.

and that Santorum person make me sick. An arrogant liar.

reply to post by ottobot


OK, i see. A Living Will would fall into this category.

euthanasia.procon.org...

"A living will is your written expression of how you want to be treated in certain medical conditions."
(emphasis mine)

Depending on state law, this document may permit you to express whether or not you wish to be given life-sustaining treatments in the event you are terminally ill or injured, to decide in advance whether you wish to be provided food and water via intravenous devices ('tube feeding'), and to give other medical directions that impact the end of life. 'Life-sustaining treatment' means the use of available medical machinery and techniques, such as heart-lung machines, ventilators, and other medical equipment and techniques that will sustain and possibly extend your life, but which will not by themselves cure your condition

However, that seems to be a relative distinction.

Euthanasia seems to go beyond that. One problem is people with dementia.

One particular case, in the Netherlands, involved a 64 year old woman with dementia. The problem is a person with dementia may lack the ability to make that decision REGARDLESS if that was their wish prior to dementia because if they could they may opt out of death. Who would/could foresee dementia at 64? Can you even purchase an automobile and be held to the contract if you have dementia?

What if their dementia is curable? At 64 five tears down the road their may be new techniques to regenerate cognitive functions.