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US, Israeli cyber attack on Press TV fails

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posted on Feb, 22 2012 @ 03:52 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


What has to happen before the messiah gets there(hypothetically speaking, because bull remains bull)? Go on...




posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 12:08 AM
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Originally posted by InfoKartel
I did no such thing. Certain companies, profiteered off Hitler and in that way, gave him what he needed. You can't blame the US for Hitlers actions, just as I can't say that you are responsible for what I'm typing now.

So when you stated Hitler was sponsored by American contractors and the Bank of England you were suggesting what? If you arent going to pay attention to what you type / accusations you make (again without supplying any source to support your claim), then whats the point of you posting? All it does is detracts from the discussion by forcing people to wade through the excrement.

Again, your accusation are suggesting Hitler only got to where he was because of US and Bank of England, while at the same time completely ignoring Hitlers actions.


Originally posted by InfoKartel
And time and time it has been said that these hostilities towards the government of Iran are HURTING IRANIANS. So foreign powers are supplying the Iranian regime with "reasons", and the Iranian regime uses this to galvanize the people behind their religious idiocracy.

Again, problems with the Iranian government, not her people. The Iranian people are being hurt because of actions taken by the IRANIAN GOVERNMENT, not because of US actions. Again, you are attempting to blame anyone and everyone else for the situation the Iranian government has created themselves.



Originally posted by InfoKartel
Yes but you would have to understand that most of them shouting those things are dumb as hell. Some don't have a choice and have to eat... but most because they've been hit over the head by Mullahs since the day they were born...religious government...oh the joys...

So we are now blaming the actions of those Iranians on diminished mental capacity? Again at what point does personal accountability come into your thought process? So far you have done nothing but blamed others and exonerated Iran.

If they are as stupid as you claim, then I will say it again - They have absolutely no business having a nuclear energy program, let alone a nuclear weapon program. Or is that someone else fault as well?



Originally posted by InfoKartel
It's not that, I'm not disputing it here, I even translated it directly for you. But there are several factors in play here...remember that dumb as hell crowd from before? The ones who are ignorant about many things but follow the crowd? Well, if you were giving a speech to dumb folks, you'd need to keep the sentences as short as possible and as close to the intended sentiment as possible. As far as my personal opinion regarding this? Meh, do away with the religious government and people who shout this on the streets will be regarded as "special" cases...like they used to before Khomenei(and co) messed Iran up.

Again you are shifting blame and making excuses for Iran, which doesn't resolve the problem.


Originally posted by InfoKartel
I respect that sentiment, but people who stone women for adultery...I don't want to be near 'em let alone advance with them.

and ignoring those actions by back water countries who have not been able to advance beyond the 9th century is whats holding back the advancement of our human civilization as a whole. Until Iran gets popped in the nose with a rolled up newspaper and told no, we are stuck in this circle.


Originally posted by InfoKartel
The context is this thread...these government big heads bowing to the religious crowd? No? It's the same as you posting a video of a bunch of -60 IQ religiously indoctrinated idiots chanting a disgusting sentence for pay or because they simply don't know better. Quid pro Quo.

No - the context of the video you posted.. When was it taken, where, for what reason? Who are the other people in the room, what was the complete topic of discussion etc etc etc.

You cannot place a random video into context without knowing the back story of the video.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 12:09 AM
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Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
When you posted the phrase "Top Turbin" last night, it was unfamiliar to me. In fact, it seemed to be a misspelling of "turban". I even tried looking up "turbin" on the internet to find what you are referencing to, with zero success. I even looked through the index of an intensive Iran textbook that I have, with no "turbin" in it.

At least you made an effort to research... Top Turbins refers to the ruling guardian council. Now that you are familiar we can move on since there is no reason to have a 2 paragraph conversation on a non issue. It only detracts from the important issues in the thread.


Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
When invaders are running around his house with machineguns

All the more reason so swat Iran down before there is a need for those machine guns to be used to stop the idiot with the machete.


Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
I never said that they are "the top producer". I said they "are a top producer".

defintion of is is?


Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
And who said I got those facts from PressTV? I actually used the CIA World Factbook when I once wrote a report on this very subject.

And yet its not sourced, which takes us back to the discussion from earlier as well as other threads. Way to once again drag the topic off on a different direction in an effort to confuse people.


Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
You're trying to tell me that being in the top five of around two hundred countries isn't significant?

The US is the Saudi Arabia of Coal, yet there are countries who don't need coal because of other abundant resources. Does that make the US significant to those countries? - Nope.

Iran is no more significant than Venezuela, Iraq or Kuwait. Since Iran does not figure into US oil imports, they are insignificant. Secondly respect is earned, not demanded simply because there is oil underneath their feet.


Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
Ever seen the Straight of Hormuz at its tightest point? You can see right across it.

about 25 miles at its narrowest point, and again, Iran doesn't own the straights. Please stay on topic.


Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
And regardless of what you think, this point is in Iran's hands. ..... snipped for room

Maritime / International Law govern the straight, not the US. The straights used for international shipping are international waters, and are not under any jurisdiction from Iran. Since Iran is unable to act like an adult, there is concern the errant child will try to shut down the straights. The US, as well as other nations (that you and others constantly ignore for your own personal reasons) can exercise freedom of navigation through those waters. They can also ensure international shipping is protected from the errant children and their homicide boats.


Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
Your inability to see how significant Iran is, is not my problem. Iran could be number #1 in oil production and you would still find some way to call them insignificant.

Because Iran is not a significant nation. They are a loud mouth child throwing a temper tantrum because they aren't getting their way. So long as Iran has the government it does and treats it citizens the way it does and continually defiles a religion, they are insignificant and will remain so.



Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
The very fact that Iran is an energy exporter, ...snipped for room

Are you going to come back around to the topic or are you going to continually derail the thread in hopes people don't notice you can't defend the other positions of Iran?



Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
Diplomatic... you mean like using proxy militias and intel agents to conduct sabotage and assassinations within Iran?

Diplomatic... you mean like using proxy militias and intel agents to conduct sabotage and assassinations within Israel, India, Thailand, Georgia, the US etc.

I'm all for Israel calling off the black ops. However Iran must do the same and must answer the remaining questions regarding their nuke program. They must end support for Hamas and Hezbullah as well. Since we know that won't happen, I fully support Israeli actions. Maybe Iran should think twice before constantly calling for the Death of Israel / wipe Israel off the map, cut Israel out like a cancer.

Iran is at fault here, not ISrael.



Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
I already do exactly that. I think that you're accusing me of your faults.

LOL



Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
Missile strikes will solve everything? What a fool.

This from the person who is supporting Iran and a clandestine nuclear weapons program. Whose the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows?


Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
And what you think your religious denominations are, means nothing. Your country is Christian; your children and presidents and judges swear allegiance under God. Just as you see Iran as a bunch of violent muslims, they see the US as a bunch of violent christians.

Thank you for demonstrating that you know absolutely nothing about the United States. Not to mention your ignorance on religion in this country. As I said if you did any independent research instead of just believing what your MISIRI handlers tell you to believe, we wouldn't need these round robbin arguments you and some other makes.

Can't beat the facts so you go full speed ahead with left full rudder and hope they get dizzy and go away.


Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
Yet you gladly condone soft power tactics against the Iranian people in order to indirectly attack the Iranian government.

The actions taken against Iran in Iran have been limited to the nuke program and people associated with it, including IRGC commanders.

If the Iranian nuke program is peaceful, please explain to us why the IRGC is running it. The Government of IRan is responsible for the plight of the Iranian people, and no amount of lies / obfuscation / blame is going to change that fact. Continually blaming other countries for the Iranian governments stupidity only works in those countries with no free press, no independent thought nor freedom of religious views, which is to say the only people who buy the Iranian load of BS are the government stooges in the Iranian government.

Or is there some other reason IRan clamped down on media with the upcoming election?.

Again props for once again dragging the thread off topic by introducing non issues in an effort to shift the focus away from those areas you can't defend. Pulled off like a highly trained Iranian government offical - props.


edit on 23-2-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-2-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 12:39 AM
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Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
And what treaty obligations has Iran not complied with?

Oh good, youve come full circle so now we cant start this argument all over again.

IAEA obligations.
NPT obligations when it comes to ballistic missile technology.


Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
Yes, Iran is so responsible. Must be easy to make that claim when your nation's forces surround it on three of four fronts.

Again, stop blaming everyone for Iran's stupidity. On the off chance you are not able to see it, at no point has any western country ever called for the destruction of Iran / wipe Iran off the map. The focus has been on their nuke program, yet here you are, once again, trying to change the story by making claims that are not true while again not providing any source to support your claims. Typical yet not surprising.


Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

First of all, this is bullsh*t. I infact do supply links if I happen to get my facts from them.

Way to sidestep the issue... So when you make up stats, your saying you dont link a source because you couldnt find a source to support the claim. When you do use a fact, you cite the source... LOL


Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
But unlike you I actually study this stuff on a level that puts your little internet research capability to shame. I've put up my significant sources before, many times actually... but since they are books, which require some effort to actually look into, they are often ignored.

Then how in hell can you be so wrong in your conclusions? Research is more than just reading a book and quoting it (while failing to cite your source). When you understand that concept, you might actually learn something.


Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
And quite frankly, the bulk of my knowledge comes from direct lectures by professionals, including scholars, politicians and even book authors and journalists themselves. What do you expect me to do, pick my mind to write an exact quote that I once heard and then write who told me it, when and where? Get real.

Again, you provide no sources / links as to who the scholars are, where they teach etc.

wait...wait... nope not surprised.


Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
Look up the definition of Straussian and then look at your own government after Bush took power.

Again we are discussing Iran, not Bush who has been out of power now for almost 4 years. Again props on obfuscation and trying to shift the topic because you know I am right about Irans ideology and its something you can't defend against. When in doubt, blame someone else / change the channel in hopes no one notices.



Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
And since you won't since you only like facts that are handed to you on a platter, I'll explain it to you. A Straussian practices their power by employing an inferior argument against a rival. If the rival falls for the inferior argument, then the rival is inferior. When the American people fall for the immediate threat of bin Laden's terrorism, Saddam's WMD, and Ahmadinejad's nukes, then that is because they are too inferior to understand the bigger picture. This is how elitist mentality works.

Yup.. exactly how does this info fit into Irans ideology being a fraud? As I stated, quit obfuscating / sidestepping by trying to employ misdirection. That tactic only works in a closed media society, like Iran.


Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
Let me get this straight.

no, no, lets just think about this for just a brief moment...

I post my opinion based on my knowledge based on my training and experience.... and my opinion is of a different perspective of the status quo... and my opinion describes imperialist tactics and geopolitics instead of irrational fears...

And somehow my opinion translates to "death to America" and "death to Israel"?

And once again you ignore whats stated, interpret it the wrong way and somehow turn it into something its not. Typical.


Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
You are seriously screwed in the head if you believe this.

Then I would not be screwed in the head because its not what I said or believe. I would suggest your mental abuility is off kilter though by constantly seeing only what you want while twisting words others say in order to, wait for it, wait for it...... shift the conversation into an area that was not being discussed in hopes people wont notice the shift and your inability to defend the original position.


Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
A country like the US, with a massive nuclear program and extensive nuclear arsenal, has no business telling another country that it cannot develop a nuclear energy program. What is even more ironic is that it was the Americans who started the Iranian nuclear energy program under the Shah, but back then Iran was an American client state so it was all acceptable.

Again, you are so lost its not even funny. Lets try this again and see if you are intelligent enough to actually read AND comprehend it.

The US has no issues with a civilian nuclear program in Iran, and this has been stated time and time and time and time again. Only the idiots who can't read and see conspiracy everywhere are confusing nuclear program with nuclear weapons program. The quicker you and the Iranian government hafwits understand that, the less lost you will look.

Nuclear weapons program...

NOT nuclear energy program.

Not a hard concept to grasp, even for you. But by all means, keep confusing the issue. Apparently its the only way to counter the nuclear weapons accusations. Change the channel, confuse the issue and hope no one notices. That mentality is exactly the reason Iran is an insignificant nation.

Someone needs to tell the Ayatollah and Ahmadinejad its the second star on the right and straight on till dawn.



Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
A country like Israel, that has ignored the NNPT and has, in fact, proliferated nuclear weapons into a very capable arsenal, has no business telling Iran anything about nuclear issues.

Again please educate yourself. Iran is not a signatory to those treaties, and as such are not subject to the term. Iran, however, is a signatory to those treaties / entities. Quit trying to shift the blame / topic away form Iran to blaming Israel. Since you are apparently so versed in the region, why don't you know this info? Did one of your many scholars fail to tell you that?

Pakistan has nuclear weapons, is siding with IRan and is also not a signatory to those treaties, the same as Israel. Any particular reason you aren't calling out Pakistan? Or does that not fit with your anti Israel / Anti West propaganda?



Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
Oh wait, I think I just posted "death to America" and "death to Israel" in the American language. But I can't be sure, because I am not an American

Thats to bad because if you were an American not only would you be allowed to make those claims, you could criticize the government for its actions and policies, you could access news sites in the West as well as China, Iran and Syria, you could challenge the information provided in those reports, you could criticize Islam in addition to Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, you could personally call out the religious leaders and elected officials.

All without the fear of being arrested for crimes against Allah and executed.

I fell sorry for you in that you will never know that experience. At what point will it sink in that when you compare the West and countries like Iran, you will find that the West has progressed at a much higher rate. Have you ever wondered why that is?

Its because of the acceptance of more than one idea, more than one belief, more than one view point.

A lesson Iran is going to learn the hard way.
edit on 23-2-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 03:15 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 



So when you stated Hitler was sponsored by American contractors and the Bank of England you were suggesting what?


That Hitler was sponsored by American contractors and the Bank of England. The pope at the time was in business with Hitler as well. It is not to suggest something but to highlight the fact that no country is innocent.


Again, your accusation are suggesting Hitler only got to where he was because of US and Bank of England,


There are a few things you need to understand. First one being that without rough resources your tanks won't move...tanks that you cannot make without said resources in the first place. So they did get him to where he was, because, where else would he have gotten the needed money to buy the needed resources?


Again, problems with the Iranian government, not her people. The Iranian people are being hurt because of actions taken by the IRANIAN GOVERNMENT, not because of US actions.


I don't know which world you live on but a sanction does hurt the people and it is the US putting the sanction on Iran. You may scream human rights issue now because your masters want you to, but I've been screaming human rights issue for the last at least 15-16 years of my life about the Iranian issue. Where were those sanctions 10 years ago when people were being hung on mountains with knives in their back?

Now that Iran is threatening to become self-sufficient in energy needs America and co. feel the need to place sanctions. You say it's for nukes? Who cares? Pakistan already has nukes and they vowed allegiance to Iran. Personally, I wouldn't want nukes in the hands of a theocracy, but on the other hand...there are no nukes in Iran!


while at the same time completely ignoring Hitlers actions.


WHAT?


Again, you are attempting to blame anyone and everyone else for the situation the Iranian government has created themselves.


I know exactly who to blame. The theocracy catches most of the blame. But I ask of you; who put that theocracy there? You will find out that again, there were certain "helping hands"...that now have their hands reaching out trying to grab as many resources and geopolitical strategic points as possible. Do you want to debate this? No, you don't, because you are wholly ignorant about the true complexity of these issues. Answer this: Ever read works by Zbigniew Brzezinski? Simple question, yes or no will suffice.


So we are now blaming the actions of those Iranians on diminished mental capacity?


Those Iranians shouting those things? Not really diminished mental capacity but it's pure ignorance. Why do you think the theocracy is doing everything in its power to curb the free flow of information to the people? How long do you think this theocracy will last still?


Again at what point does personal accountability come into your thought process?


I can't hold an ignorant person accountable...it doesn't make sense. I can't hold someone responsible for trying to survive, can you?


So far you have done nothing but blamed others and exonerated Iran.


That's what your limited perspective shows you. I don't really care for your perspective though, you have no stakes in Iran...or do you?


If they are as stupid as you claim,


That's a minority by the way. Not a majority. The majority of people are under 30 years old and do not like the Islamic regime.


then I will say it again - They have absolutely no business having a nuclear energy program,


So just because a minority inside the country is ignorant because they were picked up from rural areas at a young age, got Koran-thumped...the majority of the people deserve rolling blackouts in their capital? They have every right and it is completely THEIR business to have a nuclear energy program. You nor anyone else has a say in this matter...really.


let alone a nuclear weapon program. Or is that someone else fault as well?


I agree with you on this point. No nuclear weapon program. But they don't have one and every source regarding this tripe is exactly that, correct? Besides, like mentioned earlier...if they have another country pledging allegiance in case of war, and that other country has nukes, this really is a moot point.


Again you are shifting blame and making excuses for Iran, which doesn't resolve the problem.


Again that is your limited perspective.


and ignoring those actions by back water countries who have not been able to advance beyond the 9th century is whats holding back the advancement of our human civilization as a whole.


Excuse me, exactly in how many countries have you marched in protests against the Iranian regime? In exactly how many protests against the Iranian regime have you participated?



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 03:18 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 



and ignoring those actions


And is it me or you that cannot enter Iran because you or me did not ignore those actions? Which family members of you are suffering because of these issues you so lightly talk about as if it were strictly black&white? Grow the hell up and understand who the hell you're speaking to.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 04:06 AM
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Originally posted by InfoKartel
That Hitler was sponsored by American contractors and the Bank of England. The pope at the time was in business with Hitler as well. It is not to suggest something but to highlight the fact that no country is innocent.

Pol Pot killed hundreds of thousands of people, Stalin killed millions, Hitler killed millions. Whether they made the guns / ammo themselves or bought them from another country the ultimate decision to use them in the manner they were used falls back on Hitler / Stalin / Pol Pot.


Originally posted by InfoKartel
There are a few things you need to understand. First one being that without rough resources your tanks won't move...tanks that you cannot make without said resources in the first place. So they did get him to where he was, because, where else would he have gotten the needed money to buy the needed resources?

Good thing they seized the businesses and wealth of Jews and other enemies of the state while using slave labor to make and gather resources needed. Why waste pesky currency when you can just do it for free.

My point - Its the responsibility of the person who gave the order.

We can go to walmart and buy a spoon and go kill someone with that spoon. It doesn't make walmart complicit in the act.


Originally posted by InfoKartel
I don't know which world you live on but a sanction does hurt the people and it is the US putting the sanction on Iran. You may scream human rights issue now because your masters want you to, but I've been screaming human rights issue for the last at least 15-16 years of my life about the Iranian issue. Where were those sanctions 10 years ago when people were being hung on mountains with knives in their back?

Now that Iran is threatening to become self-sufficient in energy needs America and co. feel the need to place sanctions. You say it's for nukes? Who cares? Pakistan already has nukes and they vowed allegiance to Iran. Personally, I wouldn't want nukes in the hands of a theocracy, but on the other hand...there are no nukes in Iran!

Speaking of the world of make beleive...

The Iranian government is the cause for the plight of the Iranian people and no one else. Maybe if the Iranian government spent more on their citizens and less time denouncing the great Satan, maybe they would have the money to build a damn medical center. instead they want homicide boats, nuclear weapons and a ballistic missile program capable of reaching Europe, apparently because Andorra is a threat to Iranian national security.


NO ONE cared about Iran and what it did until they decided to build something in their backyard that can be snuck into our backyard, making it very much our business.


Originally posted by InfoKartel
WHAT?

With regards to Hitler you have made several attempts to spread the blame for his actions to others, and the logic behind that is flawed.


Originally posted by InfoKartel
I know exactly who to blame. The theocracy catches most of the blame. But I ask of you; who put that theocracy there? You will find out that again, there were certain "helping hands"...that now have their hands reaching out trying to grab as many resources and geopolitical strategic points as possible. Do you want to debate this? No, you don't, because you are wholly ignorant about the true complexity of these issues. Answer this: Ever read works by Zbigniew Brzezinski? Simple question, yes or no will suffice.


I know who he is and what he did, but I have not read any of his books. I do know he supported actions in foreign countries to counter Soviet influence in the same areas. None of which has anything to do with the topic at hand does it?

Based on your argument thus far it appears you are saying that the US was the only country responsible for World War II and the cold war.


Originally posted by InfoKartel
Those Iranians shouting those things? Not really diminished mental capacity but it's pure ignorance. Why do you think the theocracy is doing everything in its power to curb the free flow of information to the people? How long do you think this theocracy will last still?

Well since they use the same mentality as Hitler, my guess is a few thousand years. However, the condition of the Iranian people is a direct result of its governments actions, including the results of sanctions.


Originally posted by InfoKartel
I can't hold an ignorant person accountable...it doesn't make sense. I can't hold someone responsible for trying to survive, can you?

I am interested in holding the Iranian government accountable for its actions on the world stage. The Iranian people are the ones required to hold their government accountable at their level. I would not ignore sanctions simply because of the impact it could have on the civilian population. That opens the door for any country to use their citizens as black mail.


Originally posted by InfoKartel
That's what your limited perspective shows you. I don't really care for your perspective though, you have no stakes in Iran...or do you?

I do actually because if they get a nuclear weapon, its not going to be launched at Iraq, China or Andorra. Its going to be Israel and the US. This is one of the issues non Americans are incapable of seeing, comprehending / understanding. Regardless of US foreign policy, there will be people / groups / government who want to do us harm, regardless.

Case in point. A demand of Bin Ladens was for complete withdrawal of US forces in Saudi Arabia. Removing the troops would end the attacks. What people ignore is we did remove all US forces from Saudi Arabia. That was accomplished at the end of 2003. All that is left is a part of one air wing with minimal support personnel.

I dont see any flowers and cards from Al Queida / Arab countries who wanted us out of Saudi Arabia hitting the doorstep do you?

American foreign policy is not the target - America is.


Originally posted by InfoKartel
That's a minority by the way. Not a majority. The majority of people are under 30 years old and do not like the Islamic regime.

Then if they are that intelligent, they know that their government (Iranian) is responsible for the poor economic conditions by choosing a course of action they stated they would not follow (nukes).


Originally posted by InfoKartel
So just because a minority inside the country is ignorant because they were picked up from rural areas at a young age, got Koran-thumped...the majority of the people deserve rolling blackouts in their capital? They have every right and it is completely THEIR business to have a nuclear energy program. You nor anyone else has a say in this matter...really.

Its apparent to me the Iranian Government is ignorant and I stand by my statement - they have no business developing nuclear energy, let alone nuclear weapons. They are not responsible enough to deal with either scenario, and the disregard for life the show is the clincher.



Originally posted by InfoKartel
I agree with you on this point. No nuclear weapon program. But they don't have one and every source regarding this tripe is exactly that, correct? Besides, like mentioned earlier...if they have another country pledging allegiance in case of war, and that other country has nukes, this really is a moot point.

It highlights that the current safeguards in place for Nuclear energy aren't enough to prevent countries from breaking their agreements.

Pakistan's nukes are a deterrent to India, and India's are a deterrent to Pakistan and Chinas. Russia and the US were a deterrent against each other and later China, depending on their mood. Iran has absolutely NO need for a nuke. Do we honestly expect the world to tolerate a nuclear power using a nuclear weapon against a non nuclear nation (WWII and Japan aside since the rules came out afterwards and if Germany or Japan got their programs first, we would be speaking German / Japanese right now).

Not once has Israel ever stated they would remove Iran from the globe. They have had several wars while possessing nuclear weapons and not once used them or threatened to use them.

Iran, with their inability to be truthful, cant make the same guarantee and be taken seriously. It would be like Somali's navy having 3 modern aircraft carriers. There is no reason for the Somalian navy to have a need for that type of military hardware. The same holds for Iran.


Originally posted by InfoKartel
Again that is your limited perspective.

Not limited.. Its based on your argument to date.


Originally posted by InfoKartel
Excuse me, exactly in how many countries have you marched in protests against the Iranian regime? In exactly how many protests agai

My country does not have Diplomatic relations with Iran. I participate in government, I vote, I send my elected officials my piece of mind on many topics, including Iran. I dont have to take up a sign and go march somewhere, when I can instead contact my government and actually get something done.

I would say we could March in Tehran, but he last time that occurred Iran opened up a can of whoop ass on their own people for having a differing view point, namely being screwed out of an election. We supported that movement, and in my opinion we didn't do nearly enough for them..

All of this is fine and dandy, but has nothing to do with Iran, which is the topic.
edit on 23-2-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 04:45 AM
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Originally posted by InfoKartel
And is it me or you that cannot enter Iran because you or me did not ignore those actions?

I cannot enter because the Iranian regime is a backwards sort sighted arrogant and highly ignorant entity who places more into control through religion and terror than independent thought and civil actions.

As I stated before, a 9th century mentality doesn't work in the 21st century, and they are going to learn that lesson the hard way.


Originally posted by InfoKartel
Which family members of you are suffering because of these issues you so lightly talk about as if it were strictly black&white?

None, because my family members got out of and are in / from countries that don't randomly execute / imprison people in the name of religion or simplify because they feel like it because they are on some perceived Allah trip to distribute justice. The manner in which these ass clowns defile Islam should be enough for the Islmic community world wide to speak up..

Sadly though its not even a whisper from those groups... They remain quiet, as if they were a female covered head to toe riding in the backseat of the car while being watched by the Mutwa./ Bassij. The loudest voices against Islam being defiled are coming from Christians, Jews and other religions who see the current actions for what they are - a perversion of Islam used by a select few to retain control over the masses by keeping them in the 9th century.



Originally posted by InfoKartel
Grow the hell up and understand who the hell you're speaking to.

I am grown up, I don't know who the hell you are and could honestly care less as your status means absolutely nothing. The only people who act in that manner are ones who apparently feel they are above others and demand respect instead of earning it. A typical and old, very old, viewpoint dating back thousands of years, or in other words a mindset from the 9th century that thinks its valid in the 21st.

When you understand the difference let me know.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 05:09 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 



The Iranian government is the cause for the plight of the Iranian people and no one else.


And you know this to be true because you read what?


I know who he is and what he did, but I have not read any of his books.


Then you do not know who he is and what he did. Please, get lost. Your opinion is just that and even more based on logical fallacies and propaganda than most Iranian regime "apologists".

If you had read any of his books then you would know there are more parties to blame than Iran. You have an agenda and it has become ever more clear to me now.


instead they want homicide boats, nuclear weapons and a ballistic missile program capable of reaching Europe, apparently because Andorra is a threat to Iranian national security.


Homicide boats? You mean the military building crafts for the military? Do you call tanks 'homicide trucks' as well by any chance? Or are you going for the literal shock effect of the word homicide? You say nuclear weapons...where is your proof? Or is this like those books you never read? And what about missiles that can reach Europe?

Israeli Professor:
'We Could Destroy All European Capitals'


Ow wait, but now I'm being an apologist for the Iranian regime because I'm pointing you to your errors and your logical fallacies and your inconsistencies. Logical fallacies such as the straw man:

Based on your argument thus far it appears you are saying that the US was the only country responsible for World War II and the cold war.


You cannot BASE that off what I said, since I explicitly stated; "it is not to suggest but to highlight"



Well since they use the same mentality as Hitler, my guess is a few thousand years.


No they don't use the "same mentality".


I am interested in holding the Iranian government accountable for its actions on the world stage.


I wonder how many people WORLDWIDE feel the same way about the US and UK. ;-)


The Iranian people are the ones required to hold their government accountable at their level.


WHAT??? Tell me exactly which populace anywhere on Earth has this kind of say over their government as you are stating the Iranians have? The Islamic regime is already eroding so...again your argument testifies of astounding ignorance about Iran.


I do actually because if they get a nuclear weapon, its not going to be launched at Iraq, China or Andorra. Its going to be Israel and the US.


IF IF IF IF IF IF...US ISRAEL...IF IF IF IF IF IF...that is what I read, feel free to correct me.


This is one of the issues non Americans are incapable of seeing, comprehending / understanding.


And since you're a cop in America you speak for every American? I'm willing to bet Dr. Ron Paul is a more comprehensive person than you are...bothered to listen to him? Ow wait...you're part of the establishment so your mouth is taped about certain issues...much like your revolutionary guard brothers in Iran.


I dont see any flowers and cards from Al Queida / Arab countries who wanted us out of Saudi Arabia hitting the doorstep do you?


What in the name of hell does that have to do with Iran? Iran has been actively fighting Al Qaeda...and Iranians are not Arabs. So again, way to testify of ignorance.


Then if they are that intelligent, they know that their government (Iranian) is responsible for the poor economic conditions by choosing a course of action they stated they would not follow (nukes).


Yes, these people were part of the "green movement", if you remember? Well, that green movement was being hijacked by FOREIGN forces, but to the Iranian youth it was pretty clear what was happening, so they stopped protesting(for the time being). The youth are building momentum underground as it is, the government has to give up Islamic law piece by piece(and has done so with certain trivial issues).


Its apparent to me the Iranian Government is ignorant and I stand by my statement - they have no business developing nuclear energy,


You have no business to state they have no business developing energy resources. Who the hell are you anyways? Oh yeah, a cop with a bloated ego, almost forgot.


Iran, with their inability to be truthful, cant make the same guarantee and be taken seriously. It would be like Somali's navy having 3 modern aircraft carriers. There is no reason for the Somalian navy to have a need for that type of military hardware. The same holds for Iran.


...again a straw man. You have a straw army there don't you?




Not limited.. Its based on your argument to date.


?? How can we have a debate when you haven't even read Brzezinski's works? It means you are politically UNAWARE, therefore, we have nothing to talk about.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 05:14 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 



All of this is fine and dandy, but has nothing to do with Iran, which is the topic.


All of this exposes you for the ignorant know it all that you pretend to be on this forum!


I cannot enter because the Iranian regime is a backwards sort sighted arrogant and highly ignorant entity who places more into control through religion and terror than independent thought and civil actions.


Nice way to go around that question.


None, because my family members got out of and are in / from countries that don't randomly execute / imprison people in the name of religion or simplify because they feel like it because they are on some perceived Allah trip to distribute justice.


And that gives you the right to...?? You never even protested so what the HELL do you really know?



I would say we could March in Tehran, but he last time that occurred Iran opened up a can of whoop ass on their own people for having a differing view point, namely being screwed out of an election.


We'll see how "fair" the elections in the US turn out and whether or not you will be called upon to beat down your fellow Americans. Then come back to this forum and we'll talk some more...until then, you can regard this to be the last reply of me to you, until you can be bothered to inform yourself( really, read Zbgigniews works ). Take care.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 05:29 AM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


I thought you were about denying ignorance...

what has to happen before the "Jewish messiah" gets here? ( again hypothetically speaking, because nonsense remains nonsense).



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 05:52 AM
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reply to post by InfoKartel
 


Wow.. Nice attempt to completely shift the conversation. Telling me to get lost is classic , yet not surprising, as well since its usually based on the fact that people like you get called out on their claims, are proven wrong, and you then can't figure out how to continue the lies in the thread until that person leaves.

I won't be going anywhere. If you understood the concept of freedom of speech and press, you would better understand how these forums work. Let me help you out - you are required to support your claims with facts and sources. Unlike Iran, you don't get to just post your propaganda and not have it go unchallenged. Acting like Iran, which is to say being called out and you crying about it, won't make me go away either. That tactic may work in 9th century Iran, but it doesn't work here.

But by all means, continue to make demands and scream about me not knowing "who the hell i'm talking to". It wont change the fact that you are just as insignificant as Iran is, or the fact you, like Iran, are severely deluded into thinking you are more important than you actually are.

If you are "so important" then by all means, tell us who you are? You opened the door, now either walk through it or quit making claims you cant support.

Your apologies and explanations for Iran are just never ending.
Yes homicide boats - boats they have packed with explosives to be used against foreign naval vessels in a time of war. Iran has never placed a high value on human life, and this was evident during the Iran-Iraq war when they used school children, forcing them to hold hands and walk through fields of land mines to clear the way for Iranian forces.

Iran - once a coward always a coward.

As for the rest of your rant you are just all over the place, frantically trying to shift the focus off Iran and its actions simply because you cannot counter the facts. When in doubt, bring up Israel, another classic deflection Iran, and people who have no concept of independent media, use.

Iran has gotten themselves into this mess because they see themselves as being something the world does not - A responsible member of the global community. Until that occurs, the only title Iran gets is spoiled brat throwing a temper tantrum, and nothing more.

To bring it back around on topic, since you managed to get us very far off of it, is PressTV. They are notorious for making false claims, and since Iran brainwashes their people by only allowing only one news source, is it a wonder as to why the world doesn't believe them?

As the IAEA has told Iran, and as I told you -
Make the claim, back it up with facts / actions - not words.

Chances are Iranian PressTV employees tripped over a power cord somewhere, knocking them off line. Personally speaking I think if PressTV wants to broadcast to western countries, then Iran should allow western media to broadcast inside Iran.

Gee.. I wonder why the Iranian regime won't allow that. I look forward to your response, I mean as soon as they get around to telling you how to respond to my post that is.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 05:59 AM
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Originally posted by InfoKartel
All of this exposes you for the ignorant know it all that you pretend to be on this forum!

deflection


Originally posted by InfoKartel
Nice way to go around that question.

The truth can be ugly at times, especially when its presented to people not familiar with it.


Originally posted by InfoKartel
And that gives you the right to...?? You never even protested so what the HELL do you really know?

A lot more than the average Iranian, since im allowed to think for myself and read news not put out by the State. Again, something im sure your not familiar with. As far as gives me a right - It sure does, because in my country I can say these things.

Ironic that you are still making the argument for me to be quiet.. Exactly the same thing the Iranian government does to its people. At least I can protest in my country without being arbitrarily shot and killed by the Basij./ IRGC.

They are nothing but cowards.. Just like the Iranian regime.



Originally posted by InfoKartel
We'll see how "fair" the elections in the US turn out and whether or not you will be called upon to beat down your fellow Americans. Then come back to this forum and we'll talk some more...until then, you can regard this to be the last reply of me to you, until you can be bothered to inform yourself( really, read Zbgigniews works ). Take care.

Another fine example of a person who has no concept of government or western ideals. I'll get around to honoring that request just as soon as Iran lifts the clamps on the media for their upcoming elections. In the US we are allowed to protest, not riot (which is what you are referring to, albeit in an extremely ignorant manner).

Let me know how many people the IRGC and Basij kill at random. Judging from their 2009 show it should be a real humdinger this year.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 05:59 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 




Wow.. Nice attempt to completely shift the conversation.


You admitted you read nothing by Brzezinski.

The foreign policy mastermind of the US. A foreign policy advisor of president Obama right now. The foreign policy advisor in the time of president Carter( mastermind behind CIA's Iran coupè)

So you basically know nothing about American foreign policy that goes deeper than MSM articles. And you're telling me I'm shifting conversation? You're the one who is completely and utterly politically clueless here!

You're looking at the puppet dancing while I see the strings moving and the puppet master pulling the strings.

Like I said; you are expected not to read into certain things because of your job. Just like Basiji or Revolutionary guards in Iran are expected not to read certain works that could broaden their perspective and make them go: "What the hell am I doing?".



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 06:06 AM
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Originally posted by InfoKartel
You admitted you read nothing by Brzezinski.

Oh goody... We are now back to the round robbin, bringing up parts of a conersation you abandoned a few posts back. Still trying to shift the topic... sad.


Originally posted by InfoKartel
The foreign policy mastermind of the US. A foreign policy advisor of president Obama right now. The foreign policy advisor in the time of president Carter( mastermind behind CIA's Iran coupè)

And your point? I noted this info in my last post, you know the one, where you told me to shut up because I didnt read his books. If you spent more time reading and comprehending post, we wouldn't need to continually go in circles in order for you to get caught up with the conversation.

Should we discuss the support Iran gives to Syria, Hamas, Hezzbullah? all involved in taking out the governments in Lebanon, as well as the Palestinian government in the west bank? I find it humorous that you are incapable of seeing anything but hatred towards the US and Israel.

Which part of Iran are you / your family from anyways?



Originally posted by InfoKartel
blah blah blah.....

If you have something to add to the conversation that is relevant and on topic, feel free to post it. I will read it, and if its not complete nonsense I may even respond to it. Aside from that feel free to take your opinions to the comment section of PressTV. You will find better, and more obedient, company there.

Back on topic -
Do you think PressTV should be allowed to air in other countries and should Iran reciprocate by allowing western media to air in Iran.

If not, why?



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 06:38 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 



Oh goody... We are now back to the round robbin, bringing up parts of a conersation you abandoned a few posts back. Still trying to shift the topic... sad.


You don't even see the need to read those works do you? Now that's really sad. A police officer unwilling to educate himself. I guess your chief must be proud of you. May I ask why though? Is it because you are afraid of what you may read?


And your point?


The point is that you are BLIND to America's foreign policy, other than what you are fed through the MSM. Pretty much like if someone only listened to Iran's PressTV and never hears about the Islamic regime's wrongdoings.


Do you think PressTV should be allowed to air in other countries and should Iran reciprocate by allowing western media to air in Iran.


Let me put it in words you might understand:

I think very little of a regime that stones people. I think even less of their precious PressTV. I find it dangerous how many people in the West seem to be infatuated by PressTV though...again, this would be an avoidable danger were we not dealing with a theocracy.


If not, why?


Because I find it sad that there are "free" people in the West indoctrinated by the Islamic regime. Yes there is something wrong with Western governments and corruption is running rampant, but that doesn't mean that these "free" people should fall in line with some pretty words spoken by a disgusting entity.


A lot more than the average Iranian, since im allowed to think for myself and read news not put out by the State.


So I guess they also interviewed you at the age of 9, while walking in a protest, asking why you believed the Islamic Iranian regime was bad for its people and I bet you also had an answer ready at that age, because we all know, smart 9 year olds become cops?? Ow wait, nobody asked you for an opinion on Iranian matters because you were too busy playing with dolls. I was reading articles and looking through pictures of people abused and murdered by the Islamic regime while you were getting drunk and trying to get laid.


Should we discuss the support Iran gives to Syria, Hamas, Hezzbullah? all involved in taking out the governments in Lebanon, as well as the Palestinian government in the west bank?


Should we talk about the American/Israeli support to Kurdish seperatist groups? Or what about support to the people's mujahedin of Iran? What about Mossad's own involvement inside organizations such as Hamas and Hezbollah?

Or how about Israeli infiltration in a lot of European governments? Should we discuss Mossads involvement in the Breivik case?

No game?

Thought so.


Which part of Iran are you / your family from anyways?


None of your business. Just like Iran's energy concerns are none of your business.


I find it humorous that you are incapable of seeing anything but hatred towards the US and Israel.


Hatred towards the US and Israel? No. I even thank them for certain actions they took, for instance, arming Kurdish rebels. The US set up Camp Ashraf did they not? So there is no hatred towards the US or Israel. There is staunch opposition to military intervention in Iran though.


At least I can protest in my country without being arbitrarily shot and killed by the Basij./ IRGC.


You mean you can at least play agent provocateur in your country without the fear of being looked upon as a protestor, while getting people who are protesting arrested? I watch demonstrations and protests, not riots(nice cop tactic), in America via live feed and I see police officers rushing into masses, firing rubber bullets and pepperspray on and into the protesting people. Trust me, it only takes a spark to light the fuel that is America. Then you will have to face yourself.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 09:08 AM
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Originally posted by InfoKartel

Which part of Iran are you / your family from anyways?


None of your business. Just like Iran's energy concerns are none of your business.


Iranian then.. Gotcha...

it explains a lot with regards to your post.

The US can make it their business, just as Iran is making transit through the gulf their business. The rest of your post is the typical Iranian party line which you continue to argue in circles.

And as far as an answer to my question - Apparently no, you are unable to remain on topic, instead relying on a Iranian Napoleon complex and lashing out.

Iran is insignificant..
Their threats are insignificant..
Their maturity alone should prevent them from having any nuke program..
They are cowards and nothing more.

PressTV is a joke, as is all Iranian State Media..

Im going to head back to the other thread where people blindly loyal to Iran are apologizing for them. I dont think we need multiple topics on Iran since there are only so many of their reps on this site.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 09:11 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


Fear and hatred has blinded you my son...We all pray for you....May peace be upon you.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 01:27 PM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 



Iran is insignificant..


Yeh, I know these cop tactics. Emotional banter.


Their threats are insignificant..


So why are you worked up about it?


Their maturity alone should prevent them from having any nuke program..


And you are the ultimate judge in this because you have a badge? Because you happen to be born elsewhere?


They are cowards and nothing more.


Yes yes, this all adds to the discussion how? Ow wait you are trying to stall the conversation at the point you think is most benefitial for your agenda.


PressTV is a joke, as is all Iranian State Media..


All TV is a joke, the difference in Iran is that the people know TV is a joke...in your country...mweeeh



Im going to head back to the other thread where people blindly loyal to Iran are apologizing for them.


Stagnation really comes to mind here...then again, your arguments are worn out here. Give 'em hell.
edit on 23-2-2012 by InfoKartel because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 



At least you made an effort to research... Top Turbins refers to the ruling guardian council. Now that you are familiar we can move on since there is no reason to have a 2 paragraph conversation on a non issue. It only detracts from the important issues in the thread.


Uh, yeah right


I asked for proof that this isn't a racist slur. I told you that I tried looking it up and I didn't see it anywhere, aside from a sketchy blog. I also said that I looked it up in a big book on Iran, filled with any relevant terms about Iran's theocracy, and again, nothing.

From my view, you're the only one who is stating this phrase and stating what it means.


And yet its not sourced, which takes us back to the discussion from earlier as well as other threads. Way to once again drag the topic off on a different direction in an effort to confuse people.


Why should I have to source the CIA factbook? Are you too incompetent to spend 10 seconds to go to the site yourself?


The US is the Saudi Arabia of Coal, yet there are countries who don't need coal because of other abundant resources. Does that make the US significant to those countries? - Nope.

Iran is no more significant than Venezuela, Iraq or Kuwait. Since Iran does not figure into US oil imports, they are insignificant. Secondly respect is earned, not demanded simply because there is oil underneath their feet.


I honestly don't know if you are lying to carry on your own argument, or if you actually believe this garbage. Iran isn't important to the US because the US doesn't import its oil? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight


By your logic, how important do you think Azerbaijan, Kazahkstan, and Georgia are to the US? Because the US seems to be putting in a lot more into these countries than what they get back from imports. Gee, maybe it has something to do with geostrategy between empires



about 25 miles at its narrowest point, and again, Iran doesn't own the straights. Please stay on topic.


You're just throwing in "stay on topic" when we are both already miles away from it?


And yeah, Iran pretty much owns it. Kinda like how the US claims to own the Northern Passage when it is actually in my nation's waters.


They can also ensure international shipping is protected from the errant children and their homicide boats.


You mean American aircraft carriers/submarines/destroyers? Funny how the US 5th fleet's HQ is right by the strait.


Because Iran is not a significant nation. They are a loud mouth child throwing a temper tantrum because they aren't getting their way. So long as Iran has the government it does and treats it citizens the way it does and continually defiles a religion, they are insignificant and will remain so.


You keep calling Iran a disobidient child... yet last time I checked, Iran through its Persian culture and peoples, have been around eons longer than your country- and it's your country that is screaming bloody murder when Iran does something that isn't acceptable to the US.

And as I said before, the US created the Iranian nuclear program under the Shah. The US puppet Shah doesn't control Iran anymore, so now Iran having a nuclear program is somehow turned into an excuse for regime change, back to a US puppet government.

Except you don't seem to understand how extreme the US puppet government was in Iran. And for some reason, you seem to think that your country has some moral soapbox to stand on when it comes to forcing Iran into regime change again. Do you think the Iranian government, and its people, are so stupid as you like to believe them to be? They are not American puppets anymore. They don't want your "help" or "liberation". They want you to feck off and leave them alone.


Are you going to come back around to the topic or are you going to continually derail the thread in hopes people don't notice you can't defend the other positions of Iran?


Yeah, because I'm the only derailer around here



Diplomatic... you mean like using proxy militias and intel agents to conduct sabotage and assassinations within Israel, India, Thailand, Georgia, the US etc.


You must be joking. You have any evidence of this, or just the immediate press reports after the so called "Iranian terrorist incidents"? People with functioning brains cannot digest such tripe.


I'm all for Israel calling off the black ops.


What about calling off American black ops and psyops too?



They must end support for Hamas and Hezbullah as well. Since we know that won't happen, I fully support Israeli actions.


Why should Iran end its support for the democratically elected government of the Palestinian Authority?




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