Time Dilation Near The Speed Of Light May Explain Visitations By Aliens In Flying Saucers

Originally posted by skido
reply to post by blocula

 

As far I remember, the apparent time duration difference may be true as long as the frame of references are different (hence the term Relativity). Once the fast traveler returns back to earth (original frame of reference) and starts to decelerate to zero speed, time will start running much faster and both the time frames will again be in sync. Both the traveler & the stationary observer will be the same age once again.

Thanx for your input,i like it very much when someone introduces a new angle of approach to think about and factor into this mind blowing time travel near light speed phenomena...

I'll have to think for awhile about what you said above,then i'll post a reply detailing what i think about that...

I dont think outside the box,i have thrown the box away..."Anythings Possible"

Originally posted by blocula

Originally posted by skido
reply to post by blocula

 

As far I remember, the apparent time duration difference may be true as long as the frame of references are different (hence the term Relativity). Once the fast traveler returns back to earth (original frame of reference) and starts to decelerate to zero speed, time will start running much faster and both the time frames will again be in sync. Both the traveler & the stationary observer will be the same age once again.

Thanx for your input,i like it very much when someone introduces a new angle of approach to think about and factor into this mind blowing time travel near light speed phenomena...

I'll have to think for awhile about what you said above,then i'll post a reply detailing what i think about that...

I dont think outside the box,i have thrown the box away..."Anythings Possible"

edit on 21-2-2012 by blocula because: (no reason given)

Skido is incorrect in his/her final statement.

When the traveller returns to Earth, his time does return to being 'in synch' with Earth time.

However, the time differential that occurred during the trip still applies.

Just as you have been saying - more time will have gone by on Earth than had been experienced by the space traveller.

Your problem, Blocula, is only that your examples have been too large. That is, at 99% of lightspeed, thousands of years will not pass when only 25 years has gone by in the spaceship.

You'd need about 99.999999% if light speed for that (just an estimate on my part.)

I know it seems like a small difference, but it certainly results in a large time difference.

I showed you the formula. It's actually quite easy to calculate. So, why don't you?

Harte

reply to post by Harte


What I would be curious about is how the time dilation changes during the trip. If we imagine the dinosaurs in the space ship accelerating, coasting, decelerating, turning around, accelerating, coasting, decelerating, and home again on Earth.

For example, if the dinosaurs were talking to their dinosaur controllers on Earth during the coast phase when both are inertial reference frames would there be any time dilation? I imagine there would be a time delay of many years and a doppler shift on the laser frequency, but how about the time dilation?

I just like imagining what it would be like on their journey - that's all.

reply to post by Harte
I've got a good science book that i'll have to dig out and i'll find the part where the authors,after a lot of over my head complex math,came up with specific numbers and equations for the speed and the amout of time that will pass,i'll go look for it right now...

I havent read it in a long time but i'm pretty sure we'll all be surprised at how far into the future a person and their spaceship will actually travel at close to light speeds...

Originally posted by blocula
reply to post by Harte

 

I've got a good science book that i'll have to dig out,its called something like "einstein made easy" and i'll find the part where the authors,after a lot of over my head complex math,came up with specific numbers and equations for the speed and the amout of time that will pass,i'll go look for it right now...i havent read it in a long time but i'm pretty sure we'll all be surprised at how much far into the future a person and their spaceship will actually travel at close to light speeds...

Okay,i found the book,its a lot more complex than i remembered it being,its called Why Does E = M C squared? [i couldnt type in the little 2] it was published in 2009 and thakfully i previously highlighted certain sections and it looks like i was fairly close...

If we managed to travel at 99.99999999 [thats 99. followed by 8 9's] percent of the speed of light,then we could travel out of the milky way galaxy and all the way to the neighboring andromeda galaxy,almost 3 million light years away,in a mere 50 years!!!...WOW !!!

And so a 100 year journey to the andromeda galaxy and back to earth,50 years out,50 years back,at 99.99999999% of the speed of light,6 million years will have passed by on earth!!!

I was off by one 9 a few posts back when i typed out 99. followed by 9's and said that perhaps millions of years would go by in 20 years...

Continued below...

So a person traveling in a spaceship at 99.99999999% the speed of light...[99. followed by 8-9's]

100 years traveling at that speed...6,000,000 years will pass by on earth...

50 years traveling at that speed...3,000,000 years will pass on earth...

25 years traveling at that speed...1,500,000 years will pass by on earth...

12.5 years traveling at that speed...750,000 years will pass by on earth...

6.25 years traveling at that speed...375,000 years will pass by on earth...

3.125 years traveling at that speed...187,500 years will pass by on earth...

1.5625 years traveling at that speed...93,750 years will pass by on earth...

0.78125 years traveling at that speed...46,875 years will pass by on earth...

0.390625 years traveling at that speed...23,437.5 years will pass by on earth...

At this point...My knees are weak...My head is reeling...Those numbers are totally mind blowing...I'm Convinced...

The Aliens Within Their Flying Saucers That We See Arriving Here On Earth Amongst Us Are Time Travelers In Time Machines...No Doubt About It...

I like the theory and all but i would be inclined to believe that if such beings were able to create craft that could travel near the speed of light they would allready have known about time dilation and would have accounted for that aspect with some form of machine placed on earth that would be practically impossible to destroy. who knows though

Originally posted by blocula
Lets imagine two people named Mike and Mary who are both 30 years old...

Mike and Mary synchronize their watches...

Mary takes off in a space ship and travels near the speed of light,which is an incredible 670,616,629 miles an hour...

While Mike stays on earth...

Lets say that Mary travels in her space ship at that speed for 70 years...

Lets say that Mike continues living on earth for 70 years...

Now for both Mike and Mary,time will seem to be passing by at the same rate...

Because time is relative to someones perspective...

Mike will perceive 70 years passing by normally for him on earth...

Mary will perceive 70 years passing by normally for her inside her spaceship...

But when Mary returns,the incredible and amazing effects of time dilation will be revealed...

Because in reality,what Mike perceived as 70 years going by and what Mary perceived as 70 years going by,will be very different...

Mary will be 100 years old when she returns to earth...

Mike will be long gone,even though he died when he was 100 years old,he died many thousands of years earlier...

The earth is around 4,500,000,000 years old...

Modern humans have been walking around for about 200,000 years...

We have a hard time figuring out what happened 500 years ago and so what do we really know about who may have came and went many millions of years before us?...Just about nothing...

So theres been way more than enough time for other intelligent species to have evolved on earth that we here and now are more or less totally clueless and completely oblivious about...

The aliens that have been seen and encountered so many times might actually be other species of advanced intelligent life that once existed on earth in the distant past,long before humans arrived upon the evolutionary scene...

Certain groups of those prehuman intelligent life forms may have been astronauts who were sent out upon long range interstellar voyages to explore outer space,perhaps the nearest galaxy andromeda and many groups of them may have been sent out over many years,within many different types of flying saucers,on many different types of missions,all traveling near the speed of light...

By the time they started to return from their deep space explorations,from their perspectives,perhaps 50 or 100 years passed by for them inside their flying saucer spaceships...

But back on earth,many hundreds of thousands,or perhaps even millions of years went by and while they were gone,an unforseen cosmic disaster like an asteroid or comet struck the earth,maybe even a gamma ray burst.Or they may have fallen victim to a self inflicted global nuclear war,the remnants of which we find now as the world wide iridium layer...Either way,the rest of their species died out,they went extinct...

Then humans arose,evolved intelligence and took over the earth...

We have seen some of them returning recently,we still see others returning now and we unknowingly call them aliens,flying saucers and ufos...Without realizing who and what they actually are...

edit on 17-2-2012 by blocula because: (no reason given)

Sorry to have quoted the whole thing but it is necessary. The figures you are using for Time Dialation are VARIABLE dependent upon what direction the craft is traveling...this is so because traveling toward a vector or position in space that has either a higher or lower quantity of Matter or Dark Matter and Dark energy changes the calculation. Also...continued...Split Infinity

Hi. Good post. I often wondered myself if "prehistoric" advanced civilisations existed on Earth and if they did would there be any evidence left for us to find. I think that is certainly not impossible. These civilisations could have also left the Earthly cradle to go and explore other parts of the universe and I'm also not ruling out the possibility that they might be coming back to visit earth. What I find troublesome is this concept that these civilisations would be trying to travel conventionally through space at near the speed of light. I understand at a rudimentary level the concept of time dilation and do not disagree that it exists, as it has been experimentally proven. But my problem is this: using the equation E=MC^2 it would take infinite energy to accelerate a body with ANY mass (even an electron) to the speed of light. I know we are not talking about travelling at C but very close to (what was it 10 9s) but the sorts of energies we are talking about required to get up to that kind of speed in some kind of spaceship are still mind blowing, even for a grade 3 Kardeshev civilization. So with this in mind surely it would be more likely that these beings would develop some kind of wormhole technology for travel or possibly some kind of warp drive (Albucierre drive) to travel not only near the speed of light but effectively much faster than light, and also not having to deal with the consequences of time dilation?

Some people are now suggesting that T-Rex's and Velocoraptors are now the pilots of UFO's,...oh dear....

The whole idea of Alien species travelling to us at the speed of light and how this happens and the effects upon them and the way they would experiance Time Dilation is based on nothing but stats that are incorrect

Originally posted by cloudyday
reply to post by Harte

 

What I would be curious about is how the time dilation changes during the trip. If we imagine the dinosaurs in the space ship accelerating, coasting, decelerating, turning around, accelerating, coasting, decelerating, and home again on Earth.

For example, if the dinosaurs were talking to their dinosaur controllers on Earth during the coast phase when both are inertial reference frames would there be any time dilation? I imagine there would be a time delay of many years and a doppler shift on the laser frequency, but how about the time dilation?

I just like imagining what it would be like on their journey - that's all.

It's an interestinfg question, isn't it?

The acceleration part comes under the heading of General Relativity, not Special.

What you're thinking about has been used to try and explain the "twin paradox."

What happens during acceleration is the real question.

I'm sure physicists know plenty about it, but General Relativity has equations that are beyond my capabilities.

In fact, there have only been a handful of solutions found for the field equations of General Relativity.

Harte

Originally posted by blocula
reply to post by Harte

 

I've got a good science book that i'll have to dig out and i'll find the part where the authors,after a lot of over my head complex math,came up with specific numbers and equations for the speed and the amout of time that will pass,i'll go look for it right now...

I havent read it in a long time but i'm pretty sure we'll all be surprised at how far into the future a person and their spaceship will actually travel at close to light speeds...

edit on 21-2-2012 by blocula because: (no reason given)

I think my calculations are right, that if you was to travel at the speed of light to the nearest star and back (4 lyrs there and the same back) then the earth would of aged ten thousand years, from that calculation, work the rest out from there to different stars at light speed/ to light years ratio...

Originally posted by TheScale
I like the theory and all but i would be inclined to believe that if such beings were able to create craft that could travel near the speed of light they would allready have known about time dilation and would have accounted for that aspect with some form of machine placed on earth that would be practically impossible to destroy. who knows though

Think about this...Maybe some of these flying saucers originally left earth through some kind of dimensional portal or doorway to get to their deep space destinations and while they were gone that portal was somehow broken or destroyed while they were gone and so the only way they could return to earth was by traveling across great distances at near light speed and thats when the time dilation occurred for them and when they arrived here,they arived into their future,our present...

Originally posted by pigsy2400
The whole idea of Alien species travelling to us at the speed of light and how this happens and the effects upon them and the way they would experiance Time Dilation is based on nothing but stats that are incorrect

I'm not saying light speed travel is impossible, but it seems to me if they needed an infinite amount of energy output in order to chase the coveted speed of light barrier and beyond then they would probably find it easier bending space time to bring the location to them rather than travel the distance between at light speed, or open up a rosenberg bridge (worm hole) which even then would take the output of all the suns in the known galaxy to achieve, but this I think would be easier than chasing the speed of light,
worm hole=finite energy output
speed of light=infinite energy output

reply to post by DARREN1976
I'm sure that a super advanced species like a class-2 or 3 civilization would be able to overcome the problem of needing infinite amounts of energy and some people believe that the aliens control and fly their saucers with their minds, meaning their space machines are telekinetic constructs,explaining the cold fusion process, which is how some alien implant metals seemed to be designed with when they were examined by electron microscopes and these flying saucers were probably designed to travel through wormholes, through outer space and within our oceans, considering the fact that around 70% of all ufo's and flying saucers were seen either flying into, flying out of, or flying over water...

Originally posted by DARREN1976

Originally posted by blocula
reply to post by Harte

 

I've got a good science book that i'll have to dig out and i'll find the part where the authors,after a lot of over my head complex math,came up with specific numbers and equations for the speed and the amout of time that will pass,i'll go look for it right now...

I havent read it in a long time but i'm pretty sure we'll all be surprised at how far into the future a person and their spaceship will actually travel at close to light speeds...

edit on 21-2-2012 by blocula because: (no reason given)

I think my calculations are right, that if you was to travel at the speed of light to the nearest star and back (4 lyrs there and the same back) then the earth would of aged ten thousand years, from that calculation, work the rest out from there to different stars at light speed/ to light years ratio...

Well....you can't just start traveling at Light Speed in a Craft....you have to slowly build up acceleration thus many years would pass before you ever approached the Speed of Light...because too much instantanious accelleration means a VERY DEAD CREW!

E.T. is not using a method of propultion....they are simple creating a Massive Gravity Well to the point of singularity to allow the craft to FALL...from one point to any other point in the Universe. Navigation is the real bitch. Split Infinity

Don't you think that some of the species would stay behind on Earth and so would have stopped any problems that would occur? And if they can travel at or near The Speed of Light then I'm pretty sure they could have inhabited some planet or moon either in an Extrasolar System or even in our own Solar System and so would have survived.

Originally posted by extraterrestrialentity
Don't you think that some of the species would stay behind on Earth and so would have stopped any problems that would occur? And if they can travel at or near The Speed of Light then I'm pretty sure they could have inhabited some planet or moon either in an Extrasolar System or even in our own Solar System and so would have survived.

Interstellar Travel is impracticle at even speeds approaching the Speed of Light. You have the issue of your ship as it approaches the speed of light thus it obtains infinite mass...you would have to have some kind of deflector shield and at speeds close to light...a tiny particle will have the equivelent Kinetic Energy of a 10 Megaton Bomb.
So...just that alone pety much sums up the improbability of traveling interstellar in this method.

The key is to FOLD SPACE. remember when you were a kid...the teacher would ask you....What is the shortest distance between two points? They taught you the answer was....A Straight Line!.....WRONG! IN REALITY the the shortest distance between two points is NO DISTANCE! Because that is how it is in a One Dimentional state. Split Infinity

Originally posted by pigsy2400
Some people are now suggesting that T-Rex's and Velocoraptors are now the pilots of UFO's,...oh dear....

There's probably a big dino in some other galaxy/alternate universe typing the same thing on a forum but the other way around!

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
Interstellar Travel is impracticle at even speeds approaching the Speed of Light. You have the issue of your ship as it approaches the speed of light thus it obtains infinite mass...you would have to have some kind of deflector shield and at speeds close to light...a tiny particle will have the equivelent Kinetic Energy of a 10 Megaton Bomb.
So...just that alone pety much sums up the improbability of traveling interstellar in this method.

The key is to FOLD SPACE. remember when you were a kid...the teacher would ask you....What is the shortest distance between two points? They taught you the answer was....A Straight Line!.....WRONG! IN REALITY the the shortest distance between two points is NO DISTANCE! Because that is how it is in a One Dimentional state. Split Infinity

Am kind of with that, I mean how would they navigate through any debris in their path at that speed? It just seems insane. Would rather think they'd hop from point to point like you were suggesting and just check the other side first somehow to make sure the space they're planning on arriving at is clear for them.