God does not grant you freedom, rights, or anything else. Man does.

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posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 05:32 PM
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Originally posted by Visitor2012

Originally posted by andersensrm

Originally posted by Visitor2012
I was born free, I grant myself whatever "rights" necesary to live a free life. No permission necessary. If anyone tries to deny me that which they cannot deny or grant, they might find themselves on the wrong end of a gun barrel.

NO MAN or government (yes small caps), can grant or take away THAT which is NOT theirs to grant or take away.

If you give that power over to another human being, you will never be free. God gave me that freedom and power before I was even born. No slave is going to tell me otherwise.
edit on 17-2-2012 by Visitor2012 because: (no reason given)


If god gave you the freedom, you wouldn't have to fight for it.


I'd fight for what is mine, my body and my freedom, if either comes under violent threat. I am responsible for what God gave me. That responsibility is above all Law and rules of society.
edit on 17-2-2012 by Visitor2012 because: (no reason given)


Right, you have your body, but you don't have freedom. That you have to fight for, so obviously no one has given it to you, otherwise you wouldn't have to fight for it EVER.




posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by andersensrm
 



Originally posted by andersensrm


Oh heres the humans are better than anything else which is why we have the right to everything. BS we don't have any more rights than any other life form in this universe. We are so self centered that we put ourselves upon pedastools above everything else. And this is simply not true. Stop feeling so entitled to everything.



I don't think you could of misrepresented my thoughts and opinions anymore than you did. I happen to believe all living creatures have rights. I find the way humans interact with the rest of life on earth quite appalling.

This discussion was about "god-given rights" or as I call them "natural rights" in the context of people. Me not mentioning animal rights or the rights of the environment when the topic is clearly something else hardly makes me deserving of your diatribe.

Your assumptions and prejudices may serve you well at some points in your life but you should be more discerning in expressing them so carelessly as they have failed you in this instance.

I believe anything that exist has the right to exist. I believe rights are a by-product of life. All Life. Save your anger for those who deserve it and keep your assumptions to yourself until you have some evidence that they may be true. That is my suggestion to you.

This is all pretty surprising to me after reading this post you recently wrote on these forums



...and anyone who is judging you before they know you, let them do as they wish, just don't help them in anyway, and don't create any kind of relationship with those kind of people.


www.abovetopsecret.com...


I would be insulted if it wasn't for the fact that you know absolutely nothing about me. I will blame this on unwillful ignorance. Hopefully we can have a more productive conversation in the future. I am sure we will.

edit on 17-2-2012 by sageofmonticello because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 02:45 AM
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If freedom is a god given right, then why was there ever slavery? Why does the grand ole USA have a history of rampant slavery, and parts of the world still practice this?

Surely God would interject his will and sort things properly...or is gods commands weaker than the average slave trader?

Point being, our collective society has determined freedom for people should be universal and undeniable..this was not a decision by a deity, or a holy book..it was what we as humans have decided in order to persue our greater humanity and what the experience means..it shows also that we can, through discussion, philosophy, and overall understanding of universal desires, improve our species..no prayer required, logical and empathetic discussions is how this comes about.

Since when has a god ever improved the human situation (not individually, but as a species).
Envoking the word of god as to what it has or has not given humanity, when clearly human psychological progression is to credit, only bears false witness unto the lord (isn't that against a commandment anyhow?)

Like saying God gave us advanced medicine...nope..all mankinds doing, not a deity.



posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 03:34 AM
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I don't know about all this conjecture of "God given rights", or what that even means to you. All I know is life created man, man did not create life. Therefore, man must obey only the rules that life sets forth for him, which aren't really 'rules' in the traditional sense since they are what he is. He himself cannot create rules, he can only create illusions which he calls "rules".



posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 03:48 AM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Because men justified their elitism over other men,, that god gave them superior rights, or that they are the ones that give out rights and allow freedom.... for breeding humans must have always been somewhat of a pack animal.... school of fish, flock of birds..... we are complex..... to win over mates there was competition to be alpha.... community was established to split the workload and cooperate to prosper together,, humans were rewarded greatly with their goodwill and peace towards one another,,,, conflicting alpha male traits and superiority still crept in and creep into the humane civl society....... the world can be a utopia where all men view each other as equal and live in peace.... or we can play dog eat dog, rat race, piggy back, im a king your a peasant.. its up the people..... of course the people that weaseled their ways to the top of the pyramid arent going to want to give up their roles in the current rules of the game....... slavery was abolished in america, the game was changed,,,, now we know black people arent hopelessly unintelligent barbarians.....



www.constitution.org...
edit on 18-2-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 04:21 AM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


It's fairly obvious to me - since there is no god anyway.



posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 05:45 AM
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Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


this is also evil preachings ways, blaming humans of what they have no relation to at all in order to kill the concept of truth before any perspective of existence facts

mister, how a mortal being as a human could ever act as powerful one over all? when any human is by definition exclusively through condition of body and minds as relative thing

as truth is in two different ways evil also is following the truth to kill it from two different ways

truth different ways is through absolute positive and absolute superiority

absolute positive is objective existence reality, the fact
absolute superiority is subjective speculations on freedom source, the plus

evil is through those ways reverse

absolute negative is objective existing rights destructions and possessions, this is the max that humans could mean
absolute inferiority is subjective speculations on forcing the end of freedom through creations wills powers as the only freedom ever to ever present and no more, reducing it to one freedom only

so all u can blame humans for is to choose to b positive through negative facts, like enjoying that others are in needs or that objective things are never increasing by meaning their rights to steal from

but this as we observe it in all humans reality fact, isolate humans by forcing them to become more relative then they really already are, since it is in truth through relative freedom rights which is a relative thing that is not yet even a fact

u mean to protect to protect all gods crimes of their evil ways to blame humans of their own knowing areas



posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 06:05 AM
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reply to post by absolutely
 


I really try to read and understand what you mean,, but its hard....

What are you accusing me of doing wrong?

How do you think things should be? ( you will tell me, you cant choose how things will be,,,,, I will tell you, you are ignoring the fact that what humans do is choose how things will, should and could be,,,.,, you will tell me they dont really because the are evil gods)

You block out a lot of important information when you make your vacuum tight absolute logical theories.....


Has anyone ever done anything correct to your standards? or there is no such thing as correct, because correct is subjective..... so everyone should burn everything in kill each other so things can be absolutely free.
edit on 18-2-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)




civilization doesnt fall out of the sky..... Every day is work and fight for life,,,,, if humans didnt cooperate in growing and distributing food, dedicating their lives to build your home, to make the materials to build the home and appliances, to build the sewer systems,,,, if this daily grind didnt grind since the beggining of humankind time,,, then your parents wouldnt have been able to live, work, and meet, and you wouldnt have been able to been born and argue your ideas......
edit on 18-2-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)
edit on 18-2-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)


what im trying to say is the base physical motions and expressions and duties of life are more important,,, then anything else.... because without that first, there would be no platform of human life,
edit on 18-2-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Well then there's a great many issues we need to go back to square one and rethink.
For example, why is this birth control thing even a question amongst different ideologies?

Birth control mandate: beyond our God-given rights

As Christians, we believe these rights come from God; but you don’t need to believe in God to recognize such rights are protected for all citizens by the Constitution.www.washingtonpost.com...
< br />
Same thing with gay marriage. It is only some Biblical passages that prevent all citizens from equal treatment under the law. According to you we should not even be debating these issues since if they come from man they may be adjusted so the load is equally divided and all rights and opportunities are equal. Absolutely right. ANYBODY CAN RECOGNIZE EQUAL

So in a way, I am agreeing with you 100%.

God did not grant anything, God only gave us everything.
There is a big difference...and many religions and philosophies will honor that.
I personally BELIEVE THAT.

Whether it is true or not (And who knows? Maybe our ancestors learned from prior self-extinctions and invented God as a means to save us from ourselves) the thinking guarantees husbandry of the Earth and tender loving care of it so sustaining all life, particularly human, is possible. This, opposed to burning through all resources (gifts) and standing alone and empty handed - with nothing left because you have taken faster than you... intended to replace...but never got around to it. (Reaping and sowing)

I laugh when people talk about leaving debt to future generations
when science tells us we will not have the Chesapeake Bay in 20 years...the rainforest will not be able to function as earths lungs in about 70 years. We are short sighted - short timers here. I think if God WAS passing out the rights we might be better off.

Unfortunately man has assumed OWNERSHIP of everything in his domain, gifted by God and doles it out according to his own fabricated laws and measurements. These are reputed to be based on some initial decree by God and perhaps they were but they are perverted now and warped beyond recognition.

Mans laws and man has hijacked life on earth.
He has assumed the right to grant freedom, rights and everything else (or not) to every living thing.

It is not man's to give...
and yet he is still acquiring, selling or killing everything in his path.
edit on 18-2-2012 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 05:39 PM
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reply to post by ImaFungi
 


u just proved the evil you are in absolute terms, how are u building anything here, trying to get the confusion with humankind dont create credit to ur words for knowing humans achievements on the contrary, it is the plus that confirm ur wording saying clearly how u know nothing about it at all

as it is obvious how u never mean to ask me anything, not only from what u r creating the words that suit ur business in total opposite terms, while the negative subject towards another is obvious exclusive free sense will there

mister, truth is the exclusive maker of all sense and any while evil as u is the exclusive disconnection with all existence sense, so i cant say see u since u r soon supposed to be forever none



posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 05:48 PM
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anyway u proved alone that my guess about u was absolutely right, since ur reaction was exclusively driven by the fuel to protect and defend gods



posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 05:55 PM
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and ur profound despise to freedom value dont give any free fuel to ur debile justifications when on the contrary it certify ur absolute lost of any common sense



posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 06:28 PM
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reply to post by absolutely
 


I meant to direct nothing towards myself, i dont care about me, wasnt thinking or talking of me,,, you can only respond about other people... you never answer my questions......

you just call me evil, you know nothing about me, not one thing ive done,,,

Ever since I was born I observed people and human history... I understand there are infinite ways a person can live their life, what they can do and think, endless freedom,...... How am I evil towards another, what have I done to harm another? I am merely trying to understand perspective.....


about you thinking I am defending gods... that is a very complex and lengthy discussion which would need a lot of words defined and perspectives understood,, a lot of cooperation and communication.
edit on 18-2-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)


When you judge me,, you are only projecting an image of what you believe or imagine me to be, my intent of the words i use,..... how can you trust yourself that you are even close to correct?
edit on 18-2-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 06:58 PM
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reply to post by sageofmonticello
 


Yea dude sorry, I didn't read all of your post, I was already pissed and I was venting. My bad, after reading your post I take back anything I said about you. I just don't believe in rights. I think our very existence is a privilege and nothing more.



posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 06:58 PM
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Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by absolutely
 


all u repeat are lies and u know it, useless attempt

there is no judgement mister for what is absolutely real, it is by itself free present

ur sentences junctions are one realisation in truth, i see in truth which mean i see what is absolutely clear so normal and i prove it
but i never see urself means i see what truth realize about ur means to truth

that is why to me it is wether evil or right or interesting but then it is personnal to me



posted on Feb, 19 2012 @ 08:44 AM
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Man can take them away too, for when man disbelieves in God he makes himself god.
edit on 19-2-2012 by 547000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2012 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by 547000
Man can take them away too, for when man disbelieves in God he makes himself god.
edit on 19-2-2012 by 547000 because: (no reason given)


no this belongs to absolute liar, which is god

it is through the assumption that subjects are absolute facts, so it is of god possessions to all bodies souls

but in truth, when a mortal as a regular atheist of the world dont believe being of god nor for, he simply act relative in objective terms but also in subjective terms, he knows how to be of logics realities and relative justifications of means



posted on Feb, 19 2012 @ 10:21 AM
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when conscious truly dont believe in god, it inherently know that one do not exist, especially coming out of mortal conscious which is itself the proof that one do not exist, since the conscious free constant sense is the only one to itself in subjective terms

one do not exist bc any and all is only truth, while truth is never one when truth is absolute free existence resolved through its conception being positive superiority constancy






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