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Vatican told to pay taxes as Italy tackles budget crisis

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posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 11:55 AM
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Vatican told to pay taxes as Italy tackles budget crisis


www.independent.co.uk< br />

After several years of scandal in which the Catholic Church has faced allegations of financial impropriety, paedophile priests and rumours of plots to kill the Pope, the Vatican is now facing a new €600m-a-year tax bill as Rome seeks to head off European Commission censure over controversial property tax breaks enjoyed by the Church.

The Vatican avoids Ici tax on about 100,000 properties, classed as non-commercial, including 8,779 schools, 26,300 ecclesiastical structures and 4,714 hospitals
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 11:55 AM
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the estimated savings are ranging from 600 million to 2.2 billion euros, ANUALLY!

some are calling this a victory for public pressure.

insiders in the vatican say there's a war raging within the vatican.

'things are falling apart'

well i for one am glad these things are starting to fall apart.

but what do you think about the topic at hand?

should the vatican be required to pay taxes?

i think they should.

www.independent.co.uk< br /> (visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 12:06 PM
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Why would the Vatican pay taxes to Italy? They're independent of Italy. It would be like asking Canada to pay taxes to the US.



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by goldcoin
Why would the Vatican pay taxes to Italy? They're independent of Italy. It would be like asking Canada to pay taxes to the US.


these are property taxes.


As the EC heads closer to officially condemning the fiscal perks enjoyed by the Catholic Church and introduced by the Berlusconi administration, Prime Minister Mario Monti has written to the Competition Commissioner, Joaquin Almunia, saying that the Vatican will resume property tax, or Ici, payments.



The Vatican avoids Ici tax on about 100,000 properties, classed as non-commercial, including 8,779 schools, 26,300 ecclesiastical structures and 4,714 hospitals and clinics.


and i don't think all the property they own is in or around the Vatican



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 12:10 PM
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No they should not. Religious institutions should be free from the state. They should not be subject to the state. It is especially egregious in the case of the Vatican since they are an independent "nation" and they could theoretically classify their churches as consulates or some such.



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 12:14 PM
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I predict a haarp earthquake in Italy within a week......



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by DarthMuerte
No they should not. Religious institutions should be free from the state. They should not be subject to the state. It is especially egregious in the case of the Vatican since they are an independent "nation" and they could theoretically classify their churches as consulates or some such.


Do they not use state facilities, even though they are their own "nation" or whatever? I don't know.
But maybe they should assist in helping bail out their fellow countrymen, especially since 'religion' is all about "helping" their fellow man. haha.

This gesture could help restore faith in the actual message of religion. If one was religious. Or at least show that they stood for what they preached. I dunno.



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 12:25 PM
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Religion should pay its fair share of taxes (seeing as how its a billion dollar industry)

Everyone else has to,
And i'de like to see what kind of 'falling apart' the vatican is doing, i'de like to see their records out for public display from the vatican library, bet there is some interesting information about our history in those vaults.


I bet one of them says "God is in thyself, search for god in thyself and one shall find god"
Instead of "Worship the priests, give them money, and believe god is seperate from yourself" though there are some teachings that have the core values of the first, but have been warped to suit the needs of men.

Worshiping someone because they are a 'man of god' means nothing when all of us are 'man of god', Interesting topic SNF



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by AzureSky
"Worship the priests, give them money, and believe god is seperate from yourself"


Don't generalize Azure, not every Catholic worships priests or pay anything to anyone in the church. Also, there's no reason why we shouldn't believe god is separate from ourselves.



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by Auricom

Originally posted by AzureSky
"Worship the priests, give them money, and believe god is seperate from yourself"


Don't generalize Azure, not every Catholic worships priests or pay anything to anyone in the church. Also, there's no reason why we shouldn't believe god is separate from ourselves.


Sorry, didn't mean to generalize, of course not all religions are like that. And i respect the ones that aren't, its one of the reasons that mainstream religion never really rung with me, But i respect everyone's right to choice in religion.

Seperation from god depends on ones beliefs i suppose.
It only seems logical that we should be looking for god inside rather than outside seeing as how we are all god and god is everything. That is just me though.
I also do not believe in a jealous god, or a vengeful god. Neither of those two are god.
And my personal belief is that religion (mainstream) has been warped to suit the needs of a few people as well, much like how our banking system works and how capitalism works as a while (right now anyways).

My thoughts, dont hate for my thoughts =P.

Ps: I like your signature, its true

edit on 17/2/12 by AzureSky because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by AzureSky
 


While I think they have enough money to feed the world, they are their own nation and their are 2 others, House of WInsor area that extends, surprise surprise to the Bankers street there, and Washington DC.

Also, they do run businesses, and in that respect, you could be right. But on the donations and tithings, those are already after tax dollars.

I don't know if there is any way to get the money from them, or the Queen, the richest woman on earth, or the Rothchilds to right this world to equality without cosmic arrest teasm.

However, the systems would have to change and so fundamentally that most people would assume it was NWO.

So, instead to get aid to the poor, we have to stop the system of scarsity and start to instigate the system of abundance and we don't need money. And its something people would have to do, to force the change. I would no longer give money to the Churches but put notes explaining the research showing how much land and wealth they have and they need to instead use that to feed the poor. That would be good movement world wide.

And replace the needed businesses and services at local levels without currency or a different grass roots system but run a few for currency that pays everyone's taxes, and health insurance the things that need to be paid, but all the profit would be in a different grass roots system and we'd only buy from each other, so that, we crashed their world and equalized a system of abundance world wide.

But I don't believe they can legally force them to pay taxes, except on properties or businesses run outside their sovereign land.
edit on 17-2-2012 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 12:43 PM
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The clergy have negotiated with great vigor and success insofar as their exemption from having to support the state.

Much was made of the idea that these are separate and mutually exclusive institutions.

The Primates of nations never appeared to be very happy with the arrangement.

But they did agree.

As to whether that should change and by what reasoning ... I'm all for the debate.



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by Unity_99
reply to post by AzureSky
 


While I think they have enough money to feed the world, they are their own nation and their are 2 others, House of WInsor area that extends, surprise surprise to the Bankers street there, and Washington DC.

Also, they do run businesses, and in that respect, you could be right. But on the donations and tithings, those are already after tax dollars.

I don't know if there is any way to get the money from them, or the Queen, the richest woman on earth, or the Rothchilds to right this world to equality without cosmic arrest teasm.

However, the systems would have to change and so fundamentally that most people would assume it was NWO.

So, instead to get aid to the poor, we have to stop the system of scarsity and start to instigate the system of abundance and we don't need money.

But I don't believe they can legally force them to pay taxes, except on properties or businesses run outside their sovereign land.


I agree my friend, and i believe that the accounts of such entities that have taken advantage for the last 200 years have been frozen, i think we are on the brink of change (i hope)
Depending on what sources you think are correct, it seems as if people behind the scenes are starting to get things done, apparently the financial system as it stands right now is only in coasting mode, it has to keep going until the people who have been controlling it are brought to justice,
Then the introduction of a new currency system, one that is beneficiary for all!

If you believe the sources. Im psyched on an NWO if that NWO includes arresting the people who have screwed this planet, giving back the lost wealth to countries we have been robbing for the last 60 years or more(like ecuador, panama, iraq, venzuela, etc). ending the wars, and making peace. I'de be okay with that NWO.



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 12:48 PM
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I suppose you support the world tax by Nato to "Help" the needy. The Vatican is corrupt however , they do help the world in more ways than it harms it. Charity, schools, mission work, and hospitals. You take money from them then you also take money from the people they are trying to help.

This will also further the "cause" for a world tax for the needy purposed by the U.N. I do not agree with me being forced to pay anyone anything they have not earned and would like to keep that to a minimum.
edit on

"The budget figures show that overall income for 2003 at 203,659,498 euros ($252,262,837) and expenses at 213,228,954 euros ($264,116,044)"
They bring in nearly 270 Million US dollars annually it seems, and with 600 million at least in land taxes, the Vatican will be forced to cut over half of its function. Church, Charities, Hospitals, Missions and, etc.
edit on 17-2-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)
extra DIV



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by milkyway12
I suppose you support the world tax by Nato to "Help" the needy. The Vatican is corrupt however , they do help the world in more ways than it harms it. Charity, schools, mission work, and hospitals. You take money from them then you also take money from the people they are trying to help.

This will also further the "cause" for a world tax for the needy purposed by the U.N. I do not agree with me being forced to pay anyone anything they have not earned and would like to keep that to a minimum.
edit on 17-2-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)



A signifact percentage of the worlds needy are orphaned children. How would they earn it??



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 12:58 PM
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GOOD! Now lets hope the U.S. follows this example and demands places of worship put in their fair share too.



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by milkyway12
 


No, I don't support a TAX by NATO. I support an END TO SLAVERY. Banks and money are a system of slavery. Forced labor is a system of slavery. Only near hellzone planets do any of this.

We have semi advanced technology on the ant hill scale of things. Mostly used the wrong way, dark side. But it could have provided an upgrade to level one or two civilizations, and equalized the world.

The Venus Project is roughly how people need to live, however, that particular project seems to be a kind of dicatorship, or run by elites.

No!

It has to be run by councils of citizens half women and half men only, with TRUTH and DISCLOSURE, FREE ENERGY, and Safe Clean Backup Systems (ie geothermal, tide, wind and solar, for example, with the overunity also), where there is NO MONEY.

High Educations. Volunteering. Students taught early on that without volunteering we go to the caveman days.
So aside from learning real history, not the fake kind, they volunteer at numerous job trainings, and find out what their talents are.

Beautiful land usages, half women is important. We wouldn't put the eco farms on the nuclear waste sites or ugly sites and use the prime land for the elite projects, LOL.

Beautiful cities, using nature for purifying toxins, and natural resins from plant slurries in factories, not from farm lands, those would be FARMS, non GMO.

There is a use for genetically changed plants, but not in the nutrition of food aspects, in the growth. Ie. we have experimental orchard trees growing on what amounts to grape vines in the Okanaga. Apples from the vine.

Could you imagine coconuts, one of the healthiest oils for your body, from the vine and hence easily grown in green houses even in Alaska?

That kind of thing is needed, the changing of the Food portion. NO!

People who can't or don't volunteer, ie, young children, and that would be considered enormous job already, its round the clock, I only cat napped for years with my 5 boys. I put in more hours than my work aholic father for years.

So, for the handicapped, if there were things that could not be treated, and those in need, equal land and food, and able to go and pick up the stuff needed each week, just like everyone else.

There is no forcing.

But everyone is taught to contribute, say 3-4 hours a day, 4 days a week, with young people and singles working longer if they wish to. All hobbies and supplies readily available and inventors, art, music groups tons of vacations, Safe transportation perhaps even teleportation already.

In short like this:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Now another point that I do say and most programmed people do not get. Money and banks, and pyramids, and forcing people to work for lodgings with small amounts left over, to enrich the owners of a corporation (which IS slavery), or giving their power away to dicators they elect, (slavery), in short our entire system of politics, economics, religious theocracies in some areas, ARE ALL SLAVERY.

They are crimes against humanity by even the most basic cosmic laws. The opposite of any virtue.

So our entire world system is reprehensibly evil.
edit on 17-2-2012 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by Unity_99
 


Hold on....The house of Windsor aka Queen Elizabeth II does pay income tax, capital gains tax and VAT although for the good she does for this country she shouldn't have to.
She also opens Bucks Palace and Windsor Castle to the public to pay for thier upkeep!

edit on 17-2-2012 by MissConstrood because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by My.mind.is.mine
 


Then Orphan children rely on charity. Not tax money. Not sure what makes "Orphan" children any better than the man down the street. The needy are needy. No life is any more important than another.

Again how come "Orphan" children need my money more than some one else? It is called nature. Trying to solve every single problem of every person is foolish and will drag you down too.

reply to post by Unity_99
 


No disrespect is intended , but what you just posted is fantasy and is not what the current world is based off of. You coulda woulda shoulda all day long.
edit on 17-2-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by MissConstrood
 


If they do, its because they have agreed to, and they do have property and interests all over the place.

BUT:

www.stateofglobe.com...

By sovereign, under corporate law, they could even erect their own laws and get away with murder. But then the Cat Would Be Out Of The Bag and people could revolt against the tyranny.

By the way Corporate Law is intrinsically fascist and therefore crimes against humanity yet again.

www.stateofglobe.com...

I'm sure some of them do pay some taxes.

They like to run a different set of rules amongst the elite and corporate heads and they really like to keep the public out of the loop for knowledge to keep their plans secret and revolts at bay.

By the way people get sold karmic lies by these dictators all the time. Their governments actions are their karma, they say the people support their policies. Not True In The Least. The people have no voice and only get to choose which brand they want for the same product, the brands obey their leaders, ie the ones pulling the strings, not the people. So choosing a leader is like choosing which type of car or television or toaster you want. I see it as choosing which kind of punishment you want, if they would offer you three choices in court.

Basically we don't share their karma. I live in this world and have to follow certain rules and ways, that are to me crimes against humanity, to operate as a functional citizen, or they would take the kids away even, you can't just opt out, or if you can arrange that, it takes lots of money that was obtained in the system still. ie. land and supplies. So its all fake.

The ones awake, but still living here, because suicide is not an options, are like hostile witnesses in court, forced by nazi's but hand all karma back and explain to them that this is not free will and they don't approve, in fact denounce and renounce it.

I explain it on forums.

If you write into any of the leaders your letters won't get to them. Though I still think a letter and phone call campaign from everyone would be good. But not just the odd one to be targetted. It would take larger numbers.

Online however, certain topics are followed closely by tptb. So speak up everyone.
edit on 17-2-2012 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-2-2012 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)




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