The Final Battle, Israel vs... Turkey?

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posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 07:37 PM
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Hellos.

Let me begin by saying I am not a Christian, nor do I belong to any "established" religion. On the same note, I minored in Philosophy and Theology in college and love learning about ancient religion, and how it fits into human thinking at the time.

I was reading through some threads last night about the end of times, the antichrist, and such on ATS... and decided to get out my bible and read-up a bit on the topic. The topic that interested me was the "Gog/Magog" argument, since it named nations that (whether correctly or incorrectly) can still be traced.

"1 And the word of the LORD came to me saying, 2 “Son of man, set your face toward Gog of the land of Magog, the [a]prince of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him 3 and say, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD, “Behold, I am against you, O Gog, [c]prince of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal.
4 I will turn you about and put hooks into your jaws, and I will bring you out, and all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them [d]splendidly attired, a great company with buckler and shield, all of them wielding swords; 5 Persia, [e]Ethiopia and Put with them, all of them with shield and helmet;
6 Gomer with all its troops; Beth-togarmah from the remote parts of the north with all its troops—many peoples with you."

www.biblegateway.com...

There are many threads discussing Magog/Rosh being Russia, but I decided to research the origins of the tribes/areas/titles mentioned to see what I found. From what I have researched...

Gog/Magog = "...toward Gog of the land of Magog..." refers to Gog being the title of the leader of the land of Magog, a land that encompassed Meshech and Tubal. Rosh is known to be a title, meaning chief. Chief prince, or, prince of chiefs of Meshech and Tubal. Gog referred to the leader of the combined lands at the time. Many kings with similar etymologies have been offered for that role that lived at the time, but to narrow it to one is impossible.

For further proof of this, you can look no further than the next chapter in the same book, Ezekial 39:1...

Ezekiel 39: 1 “Son of man, prophesy against Gog and say: ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against you, Gog, chief prince of Meshek and Tubal."

From this we can easily see that Rosh is a title, and Gog is the leader of the land of Magog, that is, Meshech and Tubal. Nothing to do with Russia.

Meshech = Syria/Turkey/Iran/Iraq ( Ancient Anatolia. From the Meshki/Mushki tribes known to Greece and Assyrians. Cities still carry the name today. Not related to Moscow/Russia as many believe. )

Tubal = Lebanon/Syria/Turkey ( From ancient Tabal. Well known and documented civilization. )

Togarmah = Syria/Turkey

Persia = Iran

Ethiopia = Sudan/Southern Egypt ( Specifically the Cush region. )

Libya = Libya

Gomer = Turkey (Gimmarai/Cimmerians. Cappadocia. Known to have fought the Assyrians. Cities still carry the name. )


That's the best list I can come up with based on searchable texts, supposed lineages, and historical data anyways... and it lines up with what is widely accepted to be true. (Aside from the Russia connection)

I know that many people try to link ancient names with modern states, but I do not believe that to be the best course of action. When you look at the known tribes and lands, the area becomes rather small and lines up well to the known nations of the time.

On the same note, and since this is a conspiracy forum after all, I would like to offer my own take on the biblical prophecy that may be just as intriguing...

Instead of reaching for connections, let's look at the nations given and look at what is in the news today...


Syria - Been in the news in a big way recently. It's basically imploding and burning down as we speak.

Iraq - No need to highlight.

Iran - No need to highlight.

Lebanon - Hezbollah. Has been supplied arms and money from Iran for decades. If Iran gets attacked, expect retaliation from Lebanon.

Egypt - No need to highlight.

Sudan - While not widely publicized, still has news going on in its own right. In a soft war with South Sudan, and recently kidnapped and held 29 Chinese workers hostage.

Libya - No need to highlight.

Turkey - Not in the news as much as the other countries in the area, but it is making small waves none-the-less. In the last week, Turkey has gone on the record saying it will continue importing Iranian oil as its main source, and has been trying to form an international coalition to move into Syria to "help stabilize the area".


End-of-Dayers like to connect dots to fit with the verses in the bible, but maybe it's much easier than the theories they are putting forward.

Looking at the list above, the only country that hasn't been involved in a major conflict recently is Turkey. And admittedly Turkey is a fairly Western country... belonging to NATO, the UN Security Counsel, and the G20.

Turkey also has the second-largest armed force in NATO, second only to the United States, and has the strongest military in the entire Middle East (it is stated Israel's military is stronger, but numbers say otherwise). On top of that, Turkey has at least 90 B61 nuclear bombs being held in their coffers. That is the minimum.

en.wikipedia.org...

In the grand scheme of things, Iran is small potatoes. If I were betting on armageddon, I would say it is coming from the north as stated in the book, and that it will be from Turkey.

What better way to start the final conflict, than by arming your enemies. You are guaranteed a victory by your god, so what do you have to fear?

If you are looking for the final sign, I would say to wait for the day we pull Turkey into a war.

Maybe the wars in the Middle East aren't against the countries themselves, but are being waged to piss off their Muslim neighbors (Turkey, Lebanon, et al) to the point of retaliation.

"...from the remote parts of the north with all its troops—many peoples with you."

I would say "with all it's troops" could easily refer to the largest military in the region... and Turkey is pretty far north of Israel (speaking of the given area).

That's my view on it anyways...

Just a little bit of research, mixed with a little bit of fear mongering.


So that's my hypothesis... When Turkey gets pissed... The Middle East will turn into a glass parking lot overnight.

Thoughts?

And for conversational purposes, here is a thread involving the belief that Magog, Rosh, etc are referring to Russia.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Again, I'm not really religious at all, just thought it would make an interesting topic of discussion...
edit on 16-2-2012 by YouAreLiedTo because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 07:43 PM
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You have pretty much detailed what I have found as i researched the same verses.

Instead of saying "Israel vs Turkey", I think it would be better to say "Israel vs Reformed Ottoman Empire" (i.e. restored Caliphate).



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 07:44 PM
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Double post
edit on 16-2-2012 by LonelyGuy because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 07:44 PM
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If Israel gets pissed the middle east will be a sheet of glass. And not just turkey.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 07:54 PM
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reply to post by LonelyGuy
 


Israel is not trying to be the aggressor according to the book. They are trying to be invaded/attacked.

And looking at their foreign policies... they are doing a great job moving to that end...



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 08:06 PM
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I have done many hours of research into this Gog/Magog thing. Going over ancient maps and making comparisons to today's locations versus that of when these scriptures were written. Mishek and Tubal as close as I could find was indeed the areas you highlight. Keeping in mind all of the additional nations described by both name and also by the term "hoards" I agree completely. This is a very good call.
We need to watch Turkey closely as well as all those allied with it along with those that hate Israel that will also ally themselves with this nation.
Currently with the situation in Cyprus and all the gas and oil fields involved, Turkey is forcing it's hand there. Israel also is allying with Cyprus as has been in the news.
Even though Iran appears to be a problem right now, one critical factor has been overlooked.
The Oil and Gas fields Off the Coast of Israel, Lebanon, and Cyprus.
Mishek or (Mesheck) and Tubal along with its hoards are more of a threat to the middle east currently than Iran is. Iran is questionable and small potatoes. Many people are watching the wrong thing in the middle east.
There will be war, but it will not be from where many suppose.
Turkey is indeed part of the King of the North. The leader Gog? Well all we need to do is watch.
I concur with your post, and it should give a heads up to many as Iran is just a false flag in and of itself.
You have done your homework on this. Heads up people....watch the norther kingdoms.
Good Post.
DH



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by 1ibl2ibs
You have pretty much detailed what I have found as i researched the same verses.

Instead of saying "Israel vs Turkey", I think it would be better to say "Israel vs Reformed Ottoman Empire" (i.e. restored Caliphate).


See my thread HERE, for my theory on the reborn Ottoman Empire and the Islamic Papacy called the Caliphate. I already got a working theory on it.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 08:33 PM
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I post this looking for debate, and find for the first time that every ATS poster is agreeing with me...

That is worrying in and of itself...




posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 08:55 PM
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Here is a tangential debate topic for you...

You say you aren't a Christian but you have put some faith into the OT scripture. Is there a reason you don't have the same amount of faith with the NT?



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 08:59 PM
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How would they(science and the media) explain the super natural destruction of Russia and Islamic Allies? I mean it will look like God is real if they got destroyed by hailstones while invading Israel
edit on 16-2-2012 by starwarsisreal because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 09:06 PM
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reply to post by 1ibl2ibs
 


No faith, just looking into the meaning of the book.

Like I said, I have studied many ancient religions, and Judaism just happens to be one that is still around to debate the origins of the stories.

I will happily go into the consonant based historical references for the regions and tribes I have named, but for this post, it doesn't even need to go that far to draw the parallels.

You have to understand the concept of a self-fulfilling prophecy...

If the nations believe it will happen, they will make it happen.

I am not looking to the OT as a historical reference for the telling of the future, just making correlations.

As I said, I don't have faith in the deities being mentioned... but do I have faith that certain peoples will act on their beliefs?

Quite possibly yes.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 09:11 PM
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Thanks for the response.

However, in this case, Israel would be the ones to act since it is "their book" we are pulling text from. That being said, that actual action from the text comes from countries and peoples that do not believe in this book. Why would they act in order to fulfill the prophecy?



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 09:16 PM
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reply to post by 1ibl2ibs
 


They don't have to act based on the Judaism beliefs...

They can be forced to act based on hostility to their friends.

You don't have to believe in Islam/Judaism to defend someone from being bullied.

If someone kicked everyone of your friend's asses every day for the entire school year... on the last day of school I would expect all of you to gang up on them for a last hoorah.

It's retaliation. Again, nothing to do with believing in the book/beliefs mentioned.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 09:20 PM
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Just so I understand, your point is that Israel is bullying Iran (and perhaps other Islamic countries) so that a coalition will be built to attack them.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 09:23 PM
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Originally posted by 1ibl2ibs
Just so I understand, your point is that Israel is bullying Iran (and perhaps other Islamic countries) so that a coalition will be built to attack them.


You nailed it!



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 09:28 PM
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Well, consider this one of the rare occasions where 2 people with 2 different belief systems come to the same conclusion through different paths.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 09:31 PM
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I also want to commend you for doing the fairly easy research into the countries you listed in your OP.

So many people want to point to Russia and Rome when the text clearly states otherwise.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 09:32 PM
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reply to post by 1ibl2ibs
 


Almost scary isn't it?

Star to you sir.



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 09:26 AM
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Originally posted by 1ibl2ibs
Thanks for the response.

However, in this case, Israel would be the ones to act since it is "their book" we are pulling text from. That being said, that actual action from the text comes from countries and peoples that do not believe in this book. Why would they act in order to fulfill the prophecy?


Edit to rephrase: You have to take into consideration that the Qu'ran tells Muslims to fight the Jews.
edit on 17-2-2012 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 09:24 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


Correct, but my point was that the Biblical prophecy is pretty detailed as to the exact coalition members. Those exact Muslim nations would likely not consult the Bible to see if they should join up.





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