Anti-Zionism - An excuse to be openly an anti-semite

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by forklift

 

You can't be serious. I'm as outspoken as any here about Zionism but Duke is a first class racist. His hate doesn't even belong with logical discussion.

Who cares? Because he cares about his heritage? Why is it that white people are the only racists if they want to expose oppression on their race? Want to take about the hate of zionists and fake semetic people? Why are they allowed to express their hatred with no repercussion? There's so much crap spewed to manipulate peoples emotions to automatically be sympathetic and bow to any jew, fake or not. The history of the holocaust is a load of # and anyone willing to look into it, even jews like myself, figure it out.

yaaaaawwwwnnnn.... how tiresome ... more whinging from the genocidal psychopaths israel ...

israel can find sympathy in the dictionary between # and syphilis ... they damn sure get no sympathy from me due to their crimes against humanity.

I don't get it. Arabs are Semitic peoples too. By default, The Palestinian-Israeli conflict is Semite-on-Semite crime.

I have a diagram of the kabala on the back of my right calf. I also have the star of david on my right shoulder. I am not particularly religious, but I have to say that I feel a particular affinity for jewish symbolism and philosophy. Having said that, I despise the modern nation of isreal. ( notice the lack of a capitol letter) I have a close friend who happens to be Jewish and goes to temple often. He is according to you an anti-semite since his views on this are even stronger than mine. We tease each other often over our respective backgrounds. My heritage is Roman-Catholic and his is of course Jewish. One night, when we went for a drink after work, (we both work in the same kitchen) he almost got into a fight with a couple of rather large individuals who we overheard bad mouthing Jews in general. I was right there with him and if things had gotten bad, I am pretty sure that we would have both been beat pretty bad. It wouldn't have stopped me and it would have been worth it. After much yelling and a few serious threats from both sides, it became clear that all of their dislike for "Jews" was actually dislike for the policies and actions of the isreali government. When my buddy managed to make them see the difference between the religion and the country, they gave what we both felt was a genuine apology and a thank-you for the understanding that they now had. They also invited us to join them and bought our next 3 rounds. His ULTRA-Jewish dad who always had an obvious distaste for me, after hearing about the whole ordeal, now calls me his "favorite little gentile son". I also hate the roman-catholic church, but I don't hate anyone for being christian, or even for being catholic. I feel that the Vatican does not accurately reflect the teachings of Jesus. Does that make me anti-Christian? I don't think so. What I hate is people who hide behind their religion as an excuse to commit evils that are directly contradictory to said faith. As a final not on the Zionist versus Jew debate, I think that my biggest problem with the zionist movement involves the haulocost. When you consider what happened to the Jews at the hands of the Nazis, I would think the zionists would have a little more sense than to spend the following sixty-some years the way they have!

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To all the Experts of Talmud and "Jew Lovers" here...please spare me your Crap...The vast of you Promote exactly the same rehtoric that was produced in the early 30's and their whole beliefe system revives around the bulll# axiom that The protoclos of the elderz of zion is true, clearly it is not politicaly correct to site that the Jews are behind it, so the rehtoric stayd, just the subject turnes into Zionists ...That sayd, I consider it pathetic that some here Justify Masacres against Jews and explain to me why jews deserved Their Blood spiled threw History...yet a sentence later, swear they don't hate Jews...please, give me a break....Whyle you are comparing Israel to the Nazis and Denny The Holocaust, your words give in the notion that you can't wait for the next one to happen.

As for the people here Who opose Zionism or the Existance of the Jewish state...I wonder...why from all the People, Its the jews that you oppose their national aspirations?..yes...a good jew for you apperentaly is one that opposes that aspiration...but again...the overwhelming Majority of Jews...Don't.

As for the people who are so concerned about the palastinians...I checked some of the History of threads here on ATS ...and guess what? Hardly any word about the skull cracking in chechnya, China, Turky...infact...here Is a great article about that Typical Hypocracy:

Hypocrisy: How many Muslims did Turkey kill in May?

In May, 73 Kurds were killed by the Turks (meanwhile, there are reports of about 100 killed). In Pakistan, 765 people were slaughtered. In Afghanistan, 249. In Kashmir, 50. The list is long. Muslims are slaughtering Muslims. Its a routine thing. Relatively speaking, the confrontation with the smallest numbers of casualties is the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. 2,255 people have been killed and murdered in the focal points of this type of conflict, according to a count by Dr. Yochai Sela of Bar-Ilan University. Of them, nine were from the flotilla and another three Hamas operatives who tried to infiltrate Israel. Twenty were killed in the Russian federations. The United States killed 85 people in targeted killings. Lets go back and clarify: were talking about last month. It wasnt an especially violent month.

But whos heard about it? The world is silent. The world was inundated by news of the nine devotees of Islamic Jihad, who came on one of the hate ships of the Hamas solidarity trip. The organization that sent them, the IHH, was exposed in the past as having ties to terror. The terrorist ties of the senior operatives in the organization were exposed yet again following the voyage. But the world was not interested. Obama, whose soldiers also killed children in May well get back to them later demanded an investigation of Israel, which is trying to prevent Gaza from turning into a frontline base for Iran or Al Qaida. Turkish flags were flown at the leftwing, petty-wing demonstration in Tel Aviv. This is the same Turkey, that even if we forgive its Armenian massacre, is these years slaughtering Kurds, just as Israel dares not slaughter Palestinians, and good thing, too. But flags of the Islamized Turkey were waved here and at other demonstrations in the West. The world will eventually wake up. Lets pray it wont be too late.

***

The list of the 87 people taken out by the United States in May includes Mustafa al-Yazid, an al Qaida official. He wasn�t alone. His whole family was killed in the operation. His wife, his three daughters, his grandchildren, and other relatives. Widespread searches turned up not a word of criticism against the United States in the mainstream Western press. This is the same press that for many long days has been preoccupied with the nine shahids from the Turkish branch of international Jihad.

What would happen if Israel eliminated a Hamas official with all his family members? If it happened now, the world would blow a fuse. It already happened, when Salah Shehada was assassinated, and there was also a lot of noise against Israel. A petition was submitted to the Supreme Court, which did not rule against the assassinations, let it be said to its credit, but did try to set limits. Haaretz newspaper determined, based on documents leaked to it by Anat Kam, that the army is violating Supreme Court instructions. It was libel. The Chief of General Staff refused to authorize detainment of the wanted men if there were two unidentified persons on site. The American army, as weve revealed in the past, set an index that permits eliminating 29 innocents for the sake of taking out one wanted official. And yet, according to the industry of lies, the IDF is an army of criminals. The NATO and US soldiers are devoted to the nations of the world. Theyre allowed anything.


www.freerepublic.com...

and this is was writen before the disgusting hypocricy of the world about Sirya and the horrible masacre that is happening.

reply to post by Sintabon3


You act like religion is a barrier no one can escape from...I was raised catholic, and despise most of what it stands for. At least most Jews Against Zionist keep their faith and stay true to the book you are criticizing. You act like you are a scholar on this topic while you are really an amateur bigot.

You refuse to acknowledge Jews Against Zionism!

Are self hating Jews automatically kicked out?

Guess what, they don't hate Jews!

They are sick of Zionists, your attempts at defamation will never work.

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by Sintabon3

 

You act like religion is a barrier no one can escape from...I was raised catholic, and despise most of what it stands for. At least most Jews Against Zionist keep their faith and stay true to the book you are criticizing. You act like you are a scholar on this topic while you are really an amateur bigot.

You refuse to acknowledge Jews Against Zionism!

Are self hating Jews automatically kicked out?

Guess what, they don't hate Jews!

They are sick of Zionists, your attempts at defamation will never work.

Well...I replyed to that type of "my jewish freind..." argument too many times on this post....so let me just make it short for me and let you read a detailed article to enlighten the subject:

....."an antisemitic Jew? It can't be so!"

And then there is the usual knee-jerk reaction against the supposedly inflated use of the word "antisemitism". Clearly, not every anti-Israeli critique constitutes antisemitism. There was even a movie made regarding this topic, "Slander", the makers of which argue that there is, in fact, an inflated, manipulative use of the word "antisemitism". There is, in truth, no antisemitism, and if there is, it's a marginal and negligible phenomenon. The movie promotes the argument that it is the Jews, in fact, who hold on to antisemitism because they need to be hated. Being hated by the gentile global community is an inseparable, integral component of the Jewish identity.

That said, the following point should be stressed, for the umpteenth time: not every criticism directed towards Israel is considered antisemitism - under no circumstances is this argument true. Israel should be subject to criticism, just like any other nation in the world. The volume of criticism it merits should be no more or less than that aimed at any other nation. Furthermore: Yes, the old antisemitism is indeed found in the furthest margins of society. The "new antisemitism" is a different, innovative threat to the Jewish people: People conflate the Jewish people with the inhabitants of the Israeli state, or with Zionists. This "confusion" is hardly sophisticated, but it can be easily called on.

What is, then, the difference between legitimate criticism, and when does it cross the line of illegitimacy, and become commensurate with antisemitism?

Indeed, it takes a particularly warped individual to endorse organizations such as Hizbullah and Hamas, and promote their "right of resistance", while at the same time, accusing Israel of being "a Nazi state". Israel does not currently maintain death camps. Israel can be credited with increasing the life expectancy of Palestinians who dwell in the occupied territories. Israel also founded a public health and educational system, which would have been undreamed of without the occupation. The list goes on and on, but Finkelstein is unmoved by the length of this list. For him, Israel is "a Nazi state".

Calling Israel "a Nazi state" is not valid criticism. Such slogans, widely adopted by leftist activists who regularly visit the occupied territories to demonstrate their support of Hamas, do not constitute a valid criticism against Israel. This is because the Hamas organization is fundamentally an antisemitic organization: it espouses the hatred of Jews, as well as antagonism towards Israel. In Hamas' case: these are two of a kind. Many of Hamas' officials publicly call for the destruction not only of the Israeli state, but also that of the Jewish people. This applies to Hizbullah as well, a subsidiary of the Iranian Ayatollah, operating in Lebanon. As opposed to Finkelstein's claim, Hizbullah and Hamas are not "anti-occupation" organizations: Israel ceded its Lebanese and Gazan territories years ago. These two organizations share a common agenda: the complete and utter effacement of the Israeli nation. Granted, Gaza is indeed a besieged city. However, Hamas is not interested in lifting the siege, rather, it has declared an all-out war against Israel, bent on its complete and total destruction. That said, even if the siege is lifted by tomorrow, Hamas won't change its political agenda: the ball is in Hamas' court.

"This isn't antisemitism", immediately cry the Finkelsteins. This, they purport, is anti-Zionism.
What exactly is anti-Zionism? Well, before we can define anti-Zionism, we must first define Zionism itself. Zionism, more than anything else, is defined as the right of self-sovereignty for Jews, in a country that is their own. Nothing more, nothing less. There are many schisms within Zionism, and endless friction between these schisms, and this friction began with the birth of Zionism, and has persisted until today. One may argue about the practicality of the Zionist vision.

(cont)

whole articel: www.mideasttruth.com...

A lot of the Jewish oriented folks in the US do just fine and are accepted by everyone in the US, and it is because the Jewish folks I know don't run around with the politics of Zionism and they all know the problems.

Israel has chosen a bad path via their extreme actions against others.

What most have come to notice is these issues of pogroms against the Jewish in Europe and Middle East happen time and again. It would appear that a Jewish person would not continue to do the same bad things and expect a different outcome, because those that do keep doing the same bad thing and expecting a different outcome fit the issue for insanity. So the old saying goes.

For the issue of Versailles, the Jewish and European Bankers wanted to cripple Germany over WWI, and that created the resentments that enabled Hitler. That made long term enemies for these overbearing Bankers, generally being Jewish due to the European methods of wealth banking.

Consider the US at the end of WWII, the US helped the Germans recover via the Berlin Airlift and the Marshall Plan to rebuild Germany. The US won long term friends in Germany for doing that brings benefit and good will today.

Each time, it appears the problems track back to overbearing issues put forth against others. The reason some the Jewish power brokers are always in the center of things in Europe was they were the educated ones that were the managers of old world estates and money, and almost everyone else was a Serf. The old worlds Jewish Europeans lived in the Cities and the working non-Jewish lived and worked the countrysides in the old times. Generally speaking, all Cities had considerable Jewish businesses in Europe.

So, it gets back to the Royalist's money methods being the seat of the issues that set up the issues of pogroms. And most of that was derived from the Babylon Talmud methods.

For reasons no sensible person can explain, after seeing this happen some thousand times in Russia and across Europe, these Jewish factions that go over the top keep thinking they'll see a different outcome. Greed appears to be a real hinderance to learning the better ways.

But that old saying on doing the same wrong and expecting a different outcome appears to apply to those following the Babylon Talmud's extremes of beliefs. Certainly, everyone has seen those extremes with the terrorism against the British to move out of Palestine and Divide the Country. Certainly, the entire world saw the issues of terrorism against the Palestinians to fear death and move out of Israel to camps in surrounding countries.

Now, this doing the same old extremes and wrongs appears leading to another insanity phase and a potential world war III all because they can't figure out to abolish the Babylon Talmud and treat everyone the way you want to be treated.

Truly, doing these same extreme wrongs over again and again and expecting a different outcome is akin to religious insanity. imho It would appear, to most normal people, since for 2,000 years this problem has been an issue that some wise persons would change their ways. Yet, No. Money corrupts absolutely and is the root of evil.


So, take the issues into the ways of say Islam. Islam countries ban usury. Islamic Royal countries have the Royal Family as the partner in all businesses, so they retain control of keeping things on the up and up. They appear to take care of their people, and don't do the extremely rich ignoring the poor things. They have control their corporations, espeically the foreign linked ones, so they don't become Beasts or Satans.

The US is going to have to force out these Fed Res usury methods and return the profits to the people of the US, as it appears Jefferson and others intended in keeping the people in control of the banks, not foreign bankers that like to bleed America using usury.

The American People, the working class, are going to have to become a part of every corporation on US Soils, and that applies especially to Foreign Corporations, so the people have a say and can keep things on a benovolent terms via that leverage. The model preferred is employee owned and operated, with no foreign interests on the boards and the boards composed of workers.

Harvesting profits and taking them off for foreign wars and killing others has to stop. It has become clear those that ban usury and have other methods to keep the Babylon Talmud's usury from exploitation of the US is something that is long overdue for correction and essential for the return of prosperity and freedom to Americans.



Both Islam and Communism have battled this exploitive usury beast and they improved the plight of their people's freedoms, happiness, and whole prosperity. The Islams call the US the Great Satan because they so have been enslaved by the Babylon Satan methods that the Essene also resisted. The US people should be taking notes of what works to end the overbearing exploitation of America and shifting policies in the better directions in place of going deeper and deeper into the hole of oppression. JFKwas on the right track with the US Note, but those intend on exploitation of the US killed the man as an example to other free thinking presidents that might want to free Americans.


Americans are learning these problems late, but they are learning quickly the more they see their country slipping away into the like problems of the Weimar Republic's hyper inflation. A Sleeping Giant is awakening and they don't like seeing how they have been exploited by corrupt religious influences stealing their freedom and prosperity.

There are two reasons why this thread makes no sense
1. Palestinians are semites and yet also anti zionist
2. Most christians are actually jewish: taught jewish law, bombarded with the holocaust, most europeans came to america to flee fascism, called racist names like white supremacist for being their true self, and a victim of a nazi world order currency fraud. They love Hollywood, love Jewish celebrities, love Mel Brookes and Jerry Seinfeld and Jon Stewart. Most Americans are Jewish even though they dont consider them selves as such, because they are taught about Jesus, but they are also taught Jewish old testament rules, their official religion is Judeo Christianity so they are at least half jewish, and although they go to church instead of synagogue its all the same God. They follow the ten commandments which is jewish law, they get circumcised which is jewish law, the justice system is based more on 'eye for an eye' punishment as opposed to forgiveness and mercy, also jewish law, and if you are a 9/11truther you know all about bing persecuted for your beliefs.

reply to post by Sintabon3


Personally I avoid the term 'Zionist' all together. It's a bit of a loaded term, as there are indeed some people that use it as a code word for 'Jews'.

It should be remembered that the term itself does not mean this, however, and plenty of people use it correctly as a way to differentiate themselves from any racist ideology involved with criticizing Israel.

In fact I've seen many American Jews that describe themselves as 'Anti-Zionist'. Are they suggesting that they hate themselves? Of course not! They simply don't like the politics of the State of Israel......Honestly I'd say that most people who call themselves Anti-Zionist are not racist in anyway, but simply don't agree with the agenda of Israeli politics.

Of course...it would be ridiculous for me to suggest that some people don't use 'Zionist' as a code word for 'Jew'...those people certainly exist...but when you start lumping all people that use the term together...you're basically making the same mistake that bigot make when they lump all people of a certain ideology/race/religion together, claiming they are all the same.

reply to post by Sintabon3


I have no issue with the existence of Israel. I have issue with the government on quite a few issues. I have many of the same issues with my government as well. Neither are perfect. Zionism is an issue across the globe. It is a perpetual ring of demonizing people who will do anything to get what they want in my view. It does more harm than good to the everyday Israeli people.

I can disagree with the Zionist movement and the effects it has on my country.
I can disagree with how Israel was given to a people without truly thinking the consequences through.
I can disagree with it's politics and government.

None of that changes the fact that we are all endangered and enslaved by the agenda of Zionism. I think what happens to the Palestinians is terrible but I also think it's terrible that Israel is surrounded by enemies everyday and under constant threat and terrorism is a common occurrence there.

They have it even worse because there exists a government filled with people who I personally feel do more harm than good for the people.

reply to post by Sintabon3


Thank you OP, glad someone put it better than I could. Some of the stuff that get posted on ATS makes me afraid of being but in the Nazi sympathizer list form our "Zionist government"

Yes I don't agree with a lot of what Israel does and ect ect. But a trend I've seen is that most conspiracy theories always come back to the Jews.

reply to post by Sintabon3


With all due respect,
that is NOT how your OP came off.

I do not think Israel should be abolished as a nation.
Despite what's happened and how Israel came to exist, the fact of the matter is that it exists now- and I do NOT support destroying it.

But I also do not support my (and the rest of American's) tax dollars being used to support their terrorist organization, Mossad.
I do not support the Israeli government's killing of innocent Palestinians and Arabs because they (the Israeli government) are seeking vengeance.
I do not support many of the Israeli government's decisions and policies.

It has NOTHING to do with religion.
I'm anti-Zionist.
Not anti-semitic.
I know that there is much controversy over the definition of Zionism-
but for me- Zionism is a political agenda,
not a religious or racial one.

Originally posted by MagnumOpus
reply to post by forklift

 

I have no doubt that Hitler came from some Jewish linked linage. Hitler's elites even appear to have designed the whole Third Reicht deal after things similar to Judaic symbols to gather a following. Hitler appears to have been deeply into Marx writings and connected that to the Versailles problems.

Hitler has the Swastika in place of the Star of David.

Hiler has the Arian People as the Chosen People due to intelligence issues.

Hitler has the Eagle in place of the Eye of Horus.

Lots of Symbolism from Hitler's Germany mimics old religion. Even his occult stuff is chasing down religious items.

Hitler also borrowed the "master race" concepts of the Talmud, scratched out "Jew" and scribbled in "German." It's just that simple.

Originally posted by ltinycdancerg
reply to post by Sintabon3

 

With all due respect,
that is NOT how your OP came off.

I do not think Israel should be abolished as a nation.
Despite what's happened and how Israel came to exist, the fact of the matter is that it exists now- and I do NOT support destroying it.

But I also do not support my (and the rest of American's) tax dollars being used to support their terrorist organization, Mossad.
I do not support the Israeli government's killing of innocent Palestinians and Arabs because they (the Israeli government) are seeking vengeance.
I do not support many of the Israeli government's decisions and policies.

It has NOTHING to do with religion.
I'm anti-Zionist.
Not anti-semitic.
I know that there is much controversy over the definition of Zionism-
but for me- Zionism is a political agenda,
not a religious or racial one.

edit on 18-2-2012 by ltinycdancerg because: (no reason given)

Well...all you had to do is read the starting thread from top to bottom, reading just the headline is not enough.
as for the american aid to Israel, I think Israel would be much better off without it. after all, when Israel Invented the Lavi fighter Jet, America forced them to take it off the shelf in order for it not to interfier with Americas weapons sales, especialy not with the f-16s fighter jet...American aid to Israel means also more control of America over Israel.

that sayd, maybe Israel has received more direct aid from the United States since World War 2 than any other country, but... Between 1949 and 1973, the U.S. provided Israel with an average of about $122 million a year, a total of $3.1 billion wich more than $1 billion of that was loans for military equipment. Prior to 1971, Israel received$277 million in military aid, all in the form of loans as credit sales. By comparison, the Arab states received nearly three times as much aid before 1971, $4.4 billion, or $170 million per year. Moreover, unlike Israel, which receives nearly all its aid from the United States, Arab nations have gotten assistance from Asia, Eastern Europe, the Soviet Union and the European Community....now I wonder why we don't hear on ATS about stopping the aid to arab countryes...yep...again the usual double standard against Israel.

Originally posted by Sintabon3

Originally posted by ltinycdancerg
reply to post by Sintabon3

 

that sayd, maybe Israel has received more direct aid from the United States since World War 2 than any other country, but... Between 1949 and 1973, the U.S. provided Israel with an average of about $122 million a year, a total of $3.1 billion wich more than $1 billion of that was loans for military equipment. Prior to 1971, Israel received$277 million in military aid, all in the form of loans as credit sales. By comparison, the Arab states received nearly three times as much aid before 1971, $4.4 billion, or $170 million per year. Moreover, unlike Israel, which receives nearly all its aid from the United States, Arab nations have gotten assistance from Asia, Eastern Europe, the Soviet Union and the European Community....now I wonder why we don't hear on ATS about stopping the aid to arab countryes...yep...again the usual double standard against Israel.

Your argument is getting more and more ridiculous. I really don't know who you tryna fool, this ain't your standard FOX news audience you know.

Israel is a deadly mosquito that has been sucking US dry since day one. Only if the American people knew where all their money keeps disappearing to from the Federal Reserve. They would force the US government to Nuke Israel. Forget the money, it's the young American men who the Zionists have been abusing until now sacrificing themselves for the sake of the God's Chosen People. Absolutely disgusting!

And yes you are right, a lot of aid goes to Arabs too like the Zionist puppet called Hosni Mubarak worth multi bilions and Wahabi Al Saud which you keep ignoring when i bring it up:

Special relationship between Zionists and Al Saud

Arab leaders are Zionist puppets, those puppets who betrayed their masters will end up like Saddam, Gadaffi, Benazir Bhutto and soon Bashar Al Assad.

Gadaffi in his own words:

Click here for more information.

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