"180" Movie - A Few Minutes that may change your mind about Abortion

Hello. This is my first thread on AboveTopSecret. I've been here a couple of years but only recently registered. I did not know I could not make a thread until 20 posts, but after about a month I've reached the threshold.

Many people have friends or family who are pro-choice. Perhaps some of you here reading this are as well. Many of you who are and those who you know who are pro-choice have no moral backing for their standing, but rather have it because of what they have been trained to believe because of society in general. I've did a search for this video and could not find a thread about it, so I am sorry if there is one already, I couldn't find it, and certainly didn't see it.

Here is a wonderful documentary that is a must see in my opinion for everyone that may really open your eyes about what abortion really is:

It seems extremely arrogant, and flat out naive, to claim that those who are pro-choice have no moral bacing for it. Personally, I consider claiming to have any right to tell other what to do or how to live is the most immoral thing one can do.


And no, your video did NOTHING to change my mind. At all. I've seen plenty of propaganda before.

reply to post by captaintyinknots

Some people believe that being pro choice is being on the side of freedom. But I can't understand how an act of violence, killing a human being could be comsidered a precious right.
Not to mention people's cavalier attitude towards accepting abortion diminishes all value of life.

Originally posted by knightsofcydonia
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

Some people believe that being pro choice is being on the side of freedom. But I can't understand how an act of violence, killing a human being could be comsidered a precious right.

edit on 16-2-2012 by knightsofcydonia because: (no reason given)

Without devolving this into the nromal abortion topic, that is, pointing out that no human is killed with abortion, ill simply say this:
You have your opinion on the subject. What makes you think you have a right to make others live by your opinion?

reply to post by SubAce


Question: when is it ok to kill a baby in the womb?

Answer: any time before the baby develops consciousness.

If you think the moment the egg and sperm fuse that Human consciousness is spawned, you are just naive.

Originally posted by knightsofcydonia
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

Some people believe that being pro choice is being on the side of freedom. But I can't understand how an act of violence, killing a human being could be comsidered a precious right.

People of good conscience may disagree. THAT is their right.

Your assessment of morality is YOUR assessment. Others may disagree....

reply to post by SubAce

Many of you who are and those who you know who are pro-choice have no moral backing for their standing, but rather have it because of what they have been trained to believe because of society in general.

well, i see you're still learning. although you've got quite a ways to go.

do tell, how does pro-CHOICE equate to pro-abortion ???
are you foolish enough to think pro-choice ppl favor abortion or is that just the propaganda you absorb? did the choice part confuse you?

a suggestion while you're still learning, talk to those who have experience with these things rather the propaganda driven society that appears to be training you. cheers.

reply to post by SubAce


Dear SubAce,

I am against killing babies and I am a Christian and I don't agree with how you have presented your case. I have probably already driven every atheist on the site away from me because of past posts and that is okay; but, we are to do all things in love. Love starts by understanding and forgiveness, it does not start with a lecture. There are women out there who have bought into "pro-choice", had abortions and later come to be believers or at least believe that they made a mistake. God loves all sinners, me and you included and them too. I think we should try and be gentle while discussing the hardest issues, a kind word turns away. Peace.

A man finds a fetus on a park bench, crying, and asks "What's the matter?" The fetus responds, "I just got aborted!" "That's terrible," says the man, "but it could be worse. If you were born you'd probably end up fighting a war you don't support in Iraq."

Do you have memories of being in your mothers womb? When you say life what are you saying consciousness? If not i call you a hypocrite. Life is all around us and we are constantly destroying and creating it no matter who you are. I think what you're saying is you're against the destruction of the possibility life. Why is that bad?

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by SubAce

 

Question: when is it ok to kill a baby in the womb?

Answer: any time before the baby develops consciousness.

If you think the moment the egg and sperm fuse that Human consciousness is spawned, you are just naive.

Is it about consciousness or is it about the spirit? Are they the same? When does the two separate biological items become a person? The problem is that no one really knows the answer to these questions. That is what the disagreement is about.

If you use the argument that when ever a man masturbates he causes genocide because he kills the sperm needed for reproduction, then you must take in account the time when a man (adolescent usually) unconsciously has a dream which causes him to ejaculate, or even when a woman has her period.

I am pro choice, but would not want to see a potential human killed, it is a duality that I and many others suffer from.

reply to post by SubAce


Here's something else to consider: if the current rate of population growth (1.1% per annum), it will only be another 500 years before we have over 1 and a half trillion people on this planet, because the effect is compounding. Imagine if every single pregnant women was forced to have her child, that rate of growth would dramatically increase and the population would increase out of control so quickly. You may think China's one-child policy is simply unfair and cruel, but they are smart enough to realize their population was getting out of control, they realize that their country can only fit so many people on it, and they realize a land packed to the brim with people simply sucks because no one has any space and everyone has to live in tiny rooms in a house with a bunch of other people. You all talk about morality and what's right for our species, but you constantly ignore the simple fact that if we allowed every single child to be born it would be the end of us. The population is already growing to rapidly as it is, that's why many people believe the elite want to initiate a massive depopulation scheme. We are an invasive species and we are out of control because we don't know how to restrain ourselves. We are overrun by greed and we are always living in the moment, with no true thought for future generations and how our actions today will affect them in the future.

Originally posted by knightsofcydonia
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

Some people believe that being pro choice is being on the side of freedom. But I can't understand how an act of violence, killing a human being could be comsidered a precious right.
Not to mention people's cavalier attitude towards accepting abortion diminishes all value of life.

edit on 16-2-2012 by knightsofcydonia because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-2-2012 by knightsofcydonia because: (no reason given)

How many unwanted children have you adopted so far and how many more do you plan on adopting? You would be amazed at how cruel some people can be by simply bringing a life into this world.

reply to post by mileysubet

The problem is that no one really knows the answer to these questions. That is what the disagreement is about.

Even if we can't know 100% when a baby really develops consciousness, there are certain tests that let us measure the development of the brain and the brain activity, which can help determine if consciousness exists. That is how we can determine a rough time-frame for when the child should be aborted, but after that I would say it's immoral because the baby might possibly be a conscious being.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


I agree with that. Should be done early enough so that their is no chance of consciousness.

i often wondered if diversion of teachings away from the "cycle of life" would eventually evolve into such discussions and endless research to discover the obvious ... life is a cycle, without beginning or end, it is a cycle.

the act of creation is perpetual, look around you.
the act of decimation is perpetual, again, look around you.
do you avoid every ant that crosses your path ??? somehow i doubt it.
do you swat to kill flying insects ??
have you ever gone fishing ??

please ppl, come to your senses, there are MORE IMPORTANT issues abounding.
it is a cycle of which we participate, not control.
and ultimately, the argument is about a medical procedure ... which will continue with or without legal permission.

I would just like to add a few comments.

I do not espouse this person's religious beliefs, especially that there is a hell or that everyone is going to heaven if they accept Jesus. Also I am not for one political party or another. I am completely neutral and believe there is no human solution to mankind's problems.

To everyone that has come in here and kindly and respectfully commented already I thank you. Although obviously no one here could have watched the video yet. Hopefully some of you will actually eventually do so. And it would actually be nice to hear responses after the video has been watched all the way, if you decide to do so. If not, it doesn't bother me.

To those who make blanket statements and accusations and name-calling I will simply inform you that I care not the least about it. I have spent years dealing with trolls in real life and on the internet, and have learned early to totally ignore you. This will be the extent of my attention given to you. Probably while I have my stay at this website.

Finally to answer the question as to when life, human life begins notice what Job stated under inspiration:

(Job 3:3) . . .“Let the day perish on which I came to be born, Also the night that someone said, ‘An able-bodied man has been conceived!’

When he was conceived in his mother's womb "an able-bodied man" had been conceived. While you may not be able to see that man for another 20 years or so, all of who that man or woman is is already written down in the DNA it received from it's mother and father. This DNA code, or book of life the Creator and Designer of it can see, even while it is in the embryo:

(Psalm 139:16) . . .Your eyes saw even the embryo of me, And in your book all its parts were down in writing, As regards the days when they were formed And there was not yet one among them.

I found it interesting that some of these people stated they would not hesitate to kill Hitler while he was in his mother's womb if given the opportunity to do so. The question is the same to you, would you, if given the opportunity kill Hitler while he was in his mother's womb?

If you haven't thought about it yet, think about it now. You do realize that you just recognized the fact you killed a human being that was not born? That means Hitler was alive even while he was not breathing air, in the protection of his mother's womb.

I'm sorry but a egg growing in your stomach is NOT a life. It is NOT a baby. Not until it takes a breathe!
I mean, it’s just sperm that has matured.. that’s all it is at this stage.
We don’t dish out punishments for people killing sperm, I mean after all its alive isn’t it?

Now, I don’t think that means you can walk around with a sharp stick and stab pregnant ladies without being done for it, but when it comes to abortion people need to grow up and be a bit more realistic.

Having an abortion should be a perfectly acceptable thing, but there should be limits.

If Mary Jane rotten crotch showed up at the same abortion clinic every 4 weeks.. then yes, you need to punish her and give her some counselling.

But if Mary Jane stunning crotch shows up once... in tears saying it’s what has to happen EVERYONE should back off.

People don’t come to the decision to abort lightly.
If parents don’t want the child, or can’t provide/care for it then they have every right to abort the pregnancy.

.. because after all, the child is the only one who will suffer in the end!

Originally posted by Still

Originally posted by knightsofcydonia
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

Some people believe that being pro choice is being on the side of freedom. But I can't understand how an act of violence, killing a human being could be comsidered a precious right.
Not to mention people's cavalier attitude towards accepting abortion diminishes all value of life.

edit on 16-2-2012 by knightsofcydonia because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-2-2012 by knightsofcydonia because: (no reason given)

How many unwanted children have you adopted so far and how many more do you plan on adopting? You would be amazed at how cruel some people can be by simply bringing a life into this world.

Still, it is not your right to take someone else's life because they might suffer. And even many people who are alive and suffer prefer to have life. Just because people commit suicide doesn't mean they are poor or neglected. Many rich and famous people who have everything take their lives every day. And there are very poor and neglected people, whom you may deem unfit to live, that cherish and love their life.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


Again, it is impossible to "kill an unborn human being". There is no such thing.

And, coming and and claiming to not espouse to religious beliefs, and then to quote scripture to back up your point, is hypocritical in a major way.

Finally, I ask againh what makes you think your opinion gives you the right to force others to live your way...