I think I found what they were looking for in Afghanistan

Originally posted by WozaMeathed
The US is after Afghans resource's . And if they weren't they would have wiped out the OPIUM crops years ago.
And pray tell,,,,,,,,,,Who is going to save the Afghani's from the American Religious Nuts???????????????????????????
I hope you dont say America.

That's the sad truth, America is the BORG of our world, they invade rape and assimilate. Resistance in their eye is futile because of America's ruthlessness.

The only resistance I see is perhaps the remaining Asian superpower, that loaned them tons of $$$ in the first place...

China

Considering America's weapon of choice in both the Mideast (ie, Afghanistan) and Asia (ie, Japan) has been shown to be long-term NUCLEAR/RADIOLOGICAL destruction.

For the sake of whats left of the world, it wouldnt be so bad if Russia and/or China took on America before its too late - before America plows, rapes, irradiates, and brings virtually whole planet down with it.

reply to post by SLAYER69


I just read your reply to my post on page nine.

I see that people have given you quite a number of stars for what you posted. Yet for some reason, I don't understand why.

I don't understand how you can honestly sit there and tell me that the Taliban wasn't the government of Afghanistan, because they are the "bad guys" that your country, along with CIA assets already in Afghanistan, kicked out of Kabul.

All you seem to be doing, in my eyes, is justifying your country's actions by shifting history, after the fact. Posting some crap about how you think the Taliban are bad people for doing things not acceptable in your country doesn't impress me much either.

And you do realize that the good ol' USA CREATED the situation in Afghanistan, right? That the Taliban are direct remnants of the mujahideen that your country showered with cash, weapons and logistics? So I find it pretty damn ironic that people on this site back what you say. Because I certainly don't, and I'm not afraid to say it.

Perhaps you should learn what blowback means. And I don't mean just read the definition, I mean actually figure out what happens in unstable countries when your intelligence forces back the most violent minority in proxy warfare- the outcome after the war, that is, long after American TV sets stop showing all of the propaganda and move on to a new target. Because the Taliban were, in fact, created from America assistance, took over Afghanistan when assumed to be still allied with the US, and then completely shifted gears when actually in power in order to implement their own autonomous rule.

so please, think twice before you post some of that tripe at me again, where you can't support your obviously untrue argument so you resort to "der, this were the bad guys and we are the good guys though so I am right" conclusion because, quite frankly, I would expect far more from you. And quite honestly, I fear for your country if your attitude is truly representative of your population's perception of their actions upon the rest of the world- where the ends justify the means, especially when the original situation can be re-written to make the end seem even more legitimate.

The fact of the matter is, is that the Taliban was the de facto government of Afghanistan when the October 2001 invasion happened. If you don't like that fact, fine, live in delusion. Perhaps this is what they train Americans in American schools. But the rest of the world doesn't see things that way.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
Because the Taliban were, in fact, created from America assistance, took over Afghanistan when assumed to be still allied with the US, and then completely shifted gears when actually in power in order to implement their own autonomous rule.

Muhammad Ibn Abd al-Wahhab would cry nonsense........if he was alive.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
I just read your reply to my post on page nine.

Cool

I see that people have given you quite a number of stars for what you posted. Yet for some reason, I don't understand why.

Maybe they are tired of the BS that gets flung around here as fact?

I don't understand how you can honestly sit there and tell me that the Taliban wasn't the government of Afghanistan

So, You deny there was a Civil war taking place?

because they are the "bad guys" that your country, along with CIA assets already in Afghanistan, kicked out of Kabul

Fair enough.
Now, Do you Deny the Pakistani ISI moved right on in with their little ("religious students")

All you seem to be doing, in my eyes, is justifying your country's actions by shifting history.....

back into reality?

Posting some crap about how you think the Taliban are bad people for doing things not acceptable in your country doesn't impress me much either.

I didn't know impressing you was a requirement for membership here at ATS.
I'll try better next time


K?

And you do realize that the good ol' USA CREATED the situation in Afghanistan, right? That the Taliban are direct remnants of the mujahideen that your country showered with cash, weapons and logistics? So I find it pretty damn ironic that people on this site back what you say. Because I certainly don't, and I'm not afraid to say it.

AND

I'm not afraid to call you on your BS. So now we're even. The Mujahedin and the Taliban although similar roots are two entirely different animals. Yet, You seem to forget or over look that bit of historical facts.

Most of the Taliban's leaders were educated in Pakistan, in refugee camps where they had fled with millions of other Afghans after the Soviet invasion. Pakistan's Jami'at-e 'Ulema-e Islam (JUI) political party provided welfare services, education, and military training for refugees in many of these camps. They also established religious schools in the Deobandi tradition. Read more: The Taliban — Infoplease.com www.infoplease.com...

Perhaps you should learn what blowback means. And I don't mean just read the definition, I mean actually figure out what happens in unstable countries when your intelligence forces back the most violent minority in proxy warfare- the outcome after the war, that is, long after American TV sets stop showing all of the propaganda and move on to a new target.

What?

You think Blowback only happens to Western Countries?
I see a little of that Blow back occurring in Syria and Iran for their contributions to the wonderfull world of espionage and asymmetric warfare in the region. But that's the topic of another thread.

Because the Taliban were, in fact, created from America assistance, took over Afghanistan when assumed to be still allied with the US, and then completely shifted gears when actually in power in order to implement their own autonomous rule.

You win that argument by default. Because when the Soviets pulled out we stopped supporting the much larger coalition of Afghan Warlords and the "Students AKA Taliban" were able to get the upper hand on the rest. But again you seem to always leave out those important details.

Groups of taliban ("religious students") were loosely organized on a regional basis during the occupation and civil war. Although they represented a potentially huge force, they didn't emerge as a united entity until the taliban of Kandahar made their move in 1994. In late 1994, a group of well-trained taliban were chosen by Pakistan to protect a convoy trying to open a trade route from Pakistan to Central Asia

They proved an able force, fighting off rival mujahideen and warlords. The taliban then went on to take the city of Kandahar, beginning a surprising advance that ended with their capture of Kabul in September 1996. Read more: The Taliban — Infoplease.com www.infoplease.com...

so please, think twice before you post some of that tripe at me again, where you can't support your obviously untrue argument so you resort to "der, this were the bad guys and we are the good guys though so I am right"

I'm using a fair source to support my claims. What have you provided?

Rhetoric?

Opinion?

conclusion because, quite frankly, I would expect far more from you. And quite honestly, I fear for your country if your attitude is truly representative of your population's perception of their actions upon the rest of the world- where the ends justify the means, especially when the original situation can be re-written to make the end seem even more legitimate.

Meanwhile back at the Ranch, this is nothing more than the typical Dimitri double talk when he has lost his direction and kind of meanders about..

Yes, Yes I'm the product of the American Public school system etc etc etc

The fact of the matter is, is that the Taliban was the de facto government of Afghanistan when the October 2001 invasion happened. If you don't like that fact, fine, live in delusion.

A few American Special Forces supporting the Entire Northern Alliance army is not an "Invasion" [Another of your omissions]

Perhaps this is what they train Americans in American schools. But the rest of the world doesn't see things that way.

AND

Only 3 countries recognized the Taliban as the legitimate Government because they were in a civil war. It's not like the US Special Forces pulled the Entire Northern Alliance out of their backside as they parachuted in country.


That's the fact jack.

A really relevant post indeed. I remember reading the article a few weeks ago. Maybe the Soviets wanted Afghanistan for the same reason?

Anyways. You have gone to great lengths to give the proof. The sheer quantum of deposits is Humongous!!! No wonder the US is after it.

SLAYER69-
So, You deny there was a Civil war taking place?

No, not at all. It is only logical that there would be a civil war in a country where the governing body has been forced out of office, leaving a void of power that is to be claimed by whoever will rise to the top of the pack.

However, the fact that there was a civil war does not somehow change the fact that the Taliban were in significant control of the country- in fact, so significant that the US chose to talk to Taliban officials in times of diplomacy (ie, discussions on oil pipeline during the 90s, or when they demanded OBL be handed over to them). The fact that the US does not "negotiate with terrorists," meaning that they refuse to recognize non-aligned organizations as foreign government as being illegitimate (such as Hamas after democratic elections in Gaza), does not change the actual situation within Afghanistan.

Fair enough.
Now, Do you Deny the Pakistani ISI moved right on in with their little ("religious students")

I don't know about "religious students" but it is beyond obvious that the Taliban have always been the offspring of the ISI. This goes into a whole new dimension of geopolitics because Afghanistan is actually a proxy battleground for Pakistan and India- The Taliban are Pakistani proxies, and the Northern Alliance are Indian.

And what is even more ironic is the fact that the CIA and the ISI have been working hand in hand since at the earliest, the early 1980s when the great Soviet menace seeped into the valleys of Afghanistan.

I didn't know impressing you was a requirement for membership here at ATS.

It's not, but respect is a two-way street. I don't expect some piss-poor "Taliban is the bad guys" story within a serious geopolitical discussion, because people who are serious about this realize that this is all grey area and not some black and white/good vs evil struggle that the George W. Bush doctrine dictated. Such ideology is for those who believe in it, not for those who pull the strings.

The Mujahedin and the Taliban although similar roots are two entirely different animals. Yet, You seem to forget or over look that bit of historical facts.

No, not at all. I never said they were the same. In fact, I said that the Taliban movement evolved from the Afghan mujahideen. The mujahideen was a generalization for the islamic fighters' resistance movement against the Soviets. The remnants of the mujahideen, being the hardened combat veterans and ideological fundamentalists that they happened to be, splintered into factions seeking control of the entire country, hence the civil war. The Taliban consisted of mujahideen, supported by the ISI.

I see a little of that Blow back occurring in Syria and Iran for their contributions to the wonderfull world of espionage and asymmetric warfare in the region. But that's the topic of another thread.

Which is? The Kurds?

Because when the Soviets pulled out we stopped supporting the much larger coalition of Afghan Warlords and the "Students AKA Taliban" were able to get the upper hand on the rest. But again you seem to always leave out those important details.

That is most of my point. The US no longer had much interest in little, desolate Afghanistan so they abandoned it, leaving its internal struggles to the conflicting factions that the US originally backed to this point. What else is to be expected from such a situation, where tribal factions are left to fight amongst themselves in a feudal Middle East state? Only the hardest, most experienced and seemingly twisted group would emerge on top. The Taliban was the product of this situation created out of foreign meddling (both the US and the USSR were to blame for this bastard child). But what they happened to be, does not justify what was done to them.

I'm using a fair source to support my claims. What have you provided?

Rhetoric?

Opinion?

Knowledge gained through official and informal instruction of such subject, along with a fundamental understanding of Hobbesian nature of human beings.

Yes, Yes I'm the product of the American Public school system etc etc etc

My comment wasn't so much about American schools, as it was about the nationalist American perspective vs other perspectives. We up here tend to spend time observing just how corrupt American instruction is, just to understand how Americans can accept their geopolitical role and consequences.

A few American Special Forces supporting the Entire Northern Alliance army is not an "Invasion" [Another of your omissions]

Among special forces from the UK, Australia, Canada, France, Germa, Russia (apparently); oh and waves and waves of airstrikes. Not at all dissimiliar from the Libyan "revolution". My country's media was definitely reporting it as an invasion with our boots on the ground at the time.

reply to post by jibeho


Well said and i agree with you i just read about this and had it on the brain thanks for putting it out there !! AS for The Afghanistan resources ..I feel that may be a small bonus but the tactical advantages of controlling the area are IMO the real prize for the Pentagon ..Being right on the border of the other Schoolyard Bully is in advantage for sure ..

reply to post by WozaMeathed


All you need is some evidence to back up your claim.

Just keep poking the bear.

Holy crap, guys. This was all part of the whole agreement/exchange of help between the governments. Afghan government was looking for more ways to fund their defense efforts, so the US obliged. What's with all the speculation? Even if the US DID take some of the resources in the future, it's all been worked out ahead of time. It's not like we're stealing anything? Sheesh.

Originally posted by SoulVisions
Holy crap, guys. This was all part of the whole agreement/exchange of help between the governments. Afghan government was looking for more ways to fund their defense efforts, so the US obliged. What's with all the speculation? Even if the US DID take some of the resources in the future, it's all been worked out ahead of time. It's not like we're stealing anything? Sheesh.

edit on 19-2-2012 by SoulVisions because: spelling

The point is that major global powers are in the era of resource accumulation because they all know that resource production has already peaked, and the future is going to be extremely tense. This is exactly why the US has lead a military campaign in the Middle East for the past decade; both to acquire foreign resource assets while denying access to rival powers.

They knew exactly what was in Afghanistan before they invaded.

Why is this website so overwhelmingly anti american/western?

the website?

really now... lol

Originally posted by ignant
the website?

really now... lol

Yea really,seems like the u.s. can only do wrong and places like the middle east, china, are just safe haven utopias. that's what i've noticed.

Originally posted by jjjigga
Why is this website so overwhelmingly anti american/western?

Cause GOD himself got down here
and told me too...

Originally posted by SLAYER69

So, You deny there was a Civil war taking place?

A few American Special Forces supporting the Entire Northern Alliance army is not an "Invasion" [Another of your omissions]

Pull the other one.

Empire friendly drug dealers vs religious old fashioned tribal leaders, who were the leaders of that country.

You support the USofA, you're supporting drug dealers and murderers. That's as simple as it gets: more drugs at lower prices for your convenience and pleasure. It's a free market economy remember? Can't mess with profits.

The Taliban messed with drug profits, and clearly mineral deposits too, if they even knew of those.

Slayer69, you clearly approve of the invasion of a neutral country for personal profit, and whatever human misery follows is considered of no consequence. In fact you use those self same consequences to further justify the illegal and immoral actions of a corporate elite.

The rest of us disagree.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


ive heard that afghanistan is the biggest grower and supplier of opium and thats why were there guarding the fields just what ive heard no prroof that i can find,if anyone knows more about this i would be intrested in reading on any additional post about it

First time poster...

Two things about this whole thread:

1) The U.S. use of depletd uranium in the war in Afghanistan was very minimal. Depleted Uranium is used in anti-tank rounds...not a lot of tanks running around afghanistan.

2) Look at the regions in which the deposits are located. that is some of the most remote and environmentall hostile areas of the country, if not the world. Several countries, not jus the US are severely interested in the resources there (The largest country in the world in both population and soon to be economics actually share a border with Afghanistan and yet China is not mining at those resources either) It is too expensive. the terrrain, both physical and human terrain is just too hostile.

Having been in Afghanistan, i hpe that they can get their act together, and use their availalbe resources to become a stable and prosperrous country. Good luck in that region...

indeed i agree that your ideas consist of detailed thoughts and other points and references what do you think there is area 51 do you think it exist

Originally posted by harryhaller
You support the USofA, you're supporting drug dealers and murderers.

Noted. People like you...

Originally posted by TheHunterOfSouls
indeed i agree that your ideas consist of detailed thoughts and other points and references what do you think there is area 51 do you think it exist

Exists? Of course it "exists." Pull up numerous photos yourself. It's the location of the main enclave that everyone is not really aware of.