Why do you love the USA?

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by reaxi0n

 

I was merely stating that as evidence that America is not the greatest country, that it is equal to all others. I could have used any other country as my example but seeing as I live here I decided to use the country I know best.

Originally posted by reaxi0n

Deny it all you want, you still believe your country is superior, which is why you felt the jealous urge to continue your argument this far into the thread.

Jesus, here we go again. Just when I thought we were getting somewhere, you come along and bring us back to square 1.

I am not playing this stupid game with you any more mate. My meaning has been made quite clear multiple times, in nice big letters. If you want to go play silly, childish games, I will no longer respond to you.

edit on 15/2/2012 by Kryties because: (no reason given)

Brother, when all else fails I turn to psychology. Your choice of words has made you transparent to someone who knows what to look for.

It's alright though, I understand your urge to distance yourself from a perceived threat to your thought process, as you and I both know there are no "childish games" going on here.

Cognitive dissonance.

reply to post by Kryties


Did you ever stop and think that maybe the way you thought you were saying things wasn't the way it comes off to other people? You looked like you were all about hating America. You wanted to point out every little wrong thing the US has done and prove that anything anyone said that was good is false. You brought it on yourself.

reply to post by beezzer


Of the 55 people who drafted the constitution, I think 52 of them were very wealthy and well recognized. They did not have the people's interest in mind. You can thank Jefferson for adding the first ten amendments, but we must realize and accept that America was never founded on the basis of liberty, justice, and equality. It has always been a capitalist oligarchical system where the rich become richer and the poor suffer.

I have no love for the government; it has failed its people. However, the government is not America. Furthermore, modern patriotism is actually chauvinism; a patriot is willing to challenge his or her government, especially when it operates in morally and ethically corrupt manners. A chauvinist will blindly say "yes" to his or her government. If the patriots of old were anything like they are today, America would never have come into existence because they would be too blind fat and dumb to challenge the British government.

Originally posted by Kryties

Originally posted by nenothtu
Yes, let's not forget the wars - we DO throw the best wars, too!

While we're on the subject of wars, lets mention Korea, Vietnam, Iraq,, Afghanistan, East Timor - because there at least weren't any Aussies poking their noses into other folks business in THOSE wars, were there? Oh, wait...

Never mind. Scratch that thought...

Why are you still trying to claim that I am saying that Australia is better? I have repeatedly said otherwise. Please go back and read the nice big lettering I left for those posters, like yourself, that keep ignoring this fact.

I just had to re-post the while exchange, so you can point out to me precisely where I made the claim you say I did. Underline it, bold it, do something other than just claiming "it's in there... somewhere..."

You DID, however, say this, relative to this post:

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by jjjigga

 

The difference between Australia and the US is that Australia doesn't go around playing world police, claiming we are the greatest country on Earth and poking our noses into every other countries business.

reply to post by reaxi0n


Ooooook. You sound like a friend of mine who has a few 'issues' himself. He likes to sound all smart and pretend he knows a lot about psychology when he gets into verbal disputes - this despite the fact that he has no degree or knowledge of it whatsoever.

You have actually made yourself quite transparent by the fact you tried to discredit me because I used a smiley at the end of one of my sentences. That reaks of desperation and, as I said before, is something my nutcase friend would say when he is cornered.

But then again, you are just playing games now aren't you? I will not play, sorry. Goodbye.

There are many beautiful things about the USA, for example it has a tradition of open information, at least, in comparison to other nations. It is an entirely corrupt nation, with a mass media that lies and creates public opinion, however for those who wish to look beyond, the chances are there. It is no surprise that many of the great controversial researchers come from the US.

There are elements of American tradition, culture and ideology that I would like see established in a more just world, however the majority of what America represents today can be completely discarded in my opinion, including capitalism.

Originally posted by nenothtu
You DID, however, say this, relative to this post:

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by jjjigga

 

The difference between Australia and the US is that Australia doesn't go around playing world police, claiming we are the greatest country on Earth and poking our noses into every other countries business.

OK, now please tell me how that is contradictory? As I am reading it, it is very definitely not. It clearly states what I have been saying all along, that America, nor Australia, is NOT the greatest country on Earth and that all countries are equal.

Originally posted by Echo3Foxtrot
reply to post by Kryties

 

Did you ever stop and think that maybe the way you thought you were saying things wasn't the way it comes off to other people? You looked like you were all about hating America. You wanted to point out every little wrong thing the US has done and prove that anything anyone said that was good is false. You brought it on yourself.

So bloody what? Americans have extremely loud voices and a bullish way of making their thoughts known to everyone and squashing everyone else's opinions with the "America Hater" punchline. I just decided to up the level of my own voice in order to be heard over the cacophony.

It's not my problem that people cannot read plain English and twist my words because they do not like what I am saying. I defend myself very vehemently, I do not like feeling intimidated or bullied or ganged-up upon.

Originally posted by DestroyDestroyDestroy
reply to post by beezzer

 

Of the 55 people who drafted the constitution, I think 52 of them were very wealthy and well recognized. They did not have the people's interest in mind. You can thank Jefferson for adding the first ten amendments, but we must realize and accept that America was never founded on the basis of liberty, justice, and equality. It has always been a capitalist oligarchical system where the rich become richer and the poor suffer.

I have no love for the government; it has failed its people. However, the government is not America. Furthermore, modern patriotism is actually chauvinism; a patriot is willing to challenge his or her government, especially when it operates in morally and ethically corrupt manners. A chauvinist will blindly say "yes" to his or her government. If the patriots of old were anything like they are today, America would never have come into existence because they would be too blind fat and dumb to challenge the British government.

Whatever the reason, it's still a great document that codifies the fact that rights aren't granted by man.

As for patriots vs government; that's a fight that is perpetual.

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by reaxi0n

 

Ooooook. You sound like a friend of mine who has a few 'issues' himself. He likes to sound all smart and pretend he knows a lot about psychology when he gets into verbal disputes - this despite the fact that he has no degree or knowledge of it whatsoever.

You have actually made yourself quote transparent by the fact you tried to discredit me because I used a smiley at the end of one of my sentences. That reaks of desperation and, as I said before, is something my nutcase friend would say when he is cornered.

But then again, you are just playing games now aren't you? I will not play, sorry. Goodbye.

I have a Masters in Cognitive Psychology, so while you can enjoy pretending I don't see through your act, and need to resort to ad hominem insults, I'll just be here shaking my head.

Take care buddy. Good luck on your mission

Originally posted by Kryties

Whoopdy doo. Good for you. I will continue to point out that you are wrong.

Could you go ahead and get a start on that in the near future?

It would be helpful if you could point out an instance of my "circular nonsense", rather than just making a broad claim that it's "there... somewhere..."

Perhaps where I have repeatedly stated that my whole 'mission' in this thread is to make the point that America is no better or worse than any other country....and that I am not claiming that Australia is better either - you know that statement I keep making that you keep denying and trying to say that I AM claiming otherwise?

It would be good to point out an instance of where I made that claim, rather than just claiming "it's there... somewhere...". If you can't do that, then perhaps you have me confused with someone else?

Here it is again, once more for those who obviously are having eye troubles (perhaps see an optometrist about that?)

Once again...in nice big Sesame Street letters so people cannot misconstrue what I am saying unless they are completely blind:

America is NO BETTER OR WORSE than any other country on Earth.

Clear?

It would be, perhaps, if you had stopped at that - but you didn't. I'd disagree with that statement too, of course, as I would if you made the same claim for Australia by saying she was "no better or worse than any other country" (clearly Australia IS better than many other countries), but at least it wouldn't be getting dragged into all these side issues.

Moral equivalency if for animals - and those who cannot rise to the higher standards of others, preferring instead to claim they're "just as good" based on some alleged moral equivalency, and remaining wallowing in the muck, "justified" that they are "no worse than the rest".

reply to post by reaxi0n


I believe that as much as I believe that Elvis is still alive.

The very fact that you continually and consistently twisted my words is my proof of that.

reply to post by Kryties


You fit in to the American way pretty well.

If we are so bad, why stoop to our level? If you knew what was going to come, why set yourself up for it?

America has some very negative aspects - which most of us on ATS know (NDAA, fake dollar, banksters, hegemonic empire, etc, etc) but I DO love America for one main reason.

I believe America, with it's huge amount of abundance, can be a wonderful role model for how humans could be living. I recognize this has it's ups and downs (easy life, safe, anything you need any time vs lazy, uncaring, ignorant, not in touch with real work)...

Here's an example of why I love America:

Recently I got my family passes to California Academy of Sciences in San Francisco's Golden Gate Park. It's an awesome place with beautiful grounds, safe to walk around in. It has honest science and great learning opportunites for all ages. It has a great planetarium show that flatly stomps the Christian creation myth to the ground with proven science, it's just a wonderful place and engenders "freedom" in many ways.

I wish many, many more people in our world had access to some of what we have in America. It's a great country in a lot of ways!

reply to post by Echo3Foxtrot


There is always hope, and I will never know if I don't try.

On the flipside, why is it that people feel the need to intimidate, bully and call others "America Haters" the minute they hear something they do not like?

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by reaxi0n

 

I believe that as much as I believe that Elvis is still alive.

The very fact that you continually and consistently twisted my words is my proof of that.

Well that must be just dandy for you. Correction. It's what you wish for to be proof, seeing as I haven't twisted anything. Just because you don't consciously understand why it is you pick the wording that you have, doesn't mean there isn't a meaning behind it.

The brain is an interesting organ. As potentially fun as this particular argument could pan out to be, it's getting pretty far off topic, and I thought you were done with the "childish games." For someone not phased, you certainly seem determined to continue an argument no matter the costs - or topic for that matter. Could it possibly be that you hate so much to be wrong, that you need to have the last word? Even if it's something childish - the very thing you have been attempting to discredit me for?

I will let you have the last word. If you make me laugh you get a star.

reply to post by Kryties


America has a pretty strong pride factor. It's a strength and a weakness. Strength as it helps unite the country in the face of an enemy. A weakness because it often will lead to overconfidence.

I like this thread as it is aimed at making one ask themselves the question and leads to some very interesting redigression of their entire lifetime of experience. I also believe that no two countries are equal. They are all different and diversity and culture is what makes the tourism industry thrive. Its the political, economical system and/or foreign policies that might be identical between certain countries which certainly has its own good or bad basic operating principles. I'm sure there are people within the US who probably loves and hates their country similarly to many other countries around the world. However the question is a very simple and straight forward one.

Scenario 1
Q: Why do you love the USA?
A: Sorry. I do not love the USA. No comments.

Scenario 2
Q: Why do you love the USA?
A: I love USA because....comments here...

I'm sure the kids in Kindergarten would do a better job at answering the question.

reply to post by reaxi0n


I have a friend who actually does have a degree in psychology. She is currently residing in a drug rehab in Sydney - as a patient, not a counsellor.

Originally posted by Echo3Foxtrot
reply to post by Kryties

 

America has a pretty strong pride factor. It's a strength and a weakness. Strength as it helps unite the country in the face of an enemy. A weakness because it often will lead to overconfidence.

Yes, I would have to agree with that....not out of malice or a willingness to degrade America but, from an outsiders perspective it is much more obvious than to those who live within.

Australia has its fair share of that problem too....born more out of a sense of Tall Poppy Syndrome though. Having been shoved out of way and mind down the bottom of the world has, until recently, made us feel rather small and insignificant.