CNN Forced To Admit Ron Paul Tops Favorability Amongst Republicans

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posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by rstregooski
 


Bwahahah well at least you finally have the balls to admit you want to deny education and healthcare to the poor.

How many Paul supporters agree? Thomas Jefferson didn't.

I guess he was one of the bad founding fathers.


Let's clarify your position here.. So you are saying that basic education is a right, but college education is not a right? Or college education is a right, so let's get the government to pay for that too and see how all of that works out.. Think about it..

So if you call yourself American than you must realize that the Constitution defines America. So to stick hard to the Constitution is crazy, is it? Because I've read it several times and it does not allow government to control education..
edit on 16-2-2012 by rstregooski because: (no reason given)
edit on 16-2-2012 by rstregooski because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 08:43 AM
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News Corp, CNN, and MSNBC have allready picked the next president for you. Now it's time for you people to get inline and do what your told! Damn it's getting harder and harder to find good drones now days.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 06:37 PM
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reply to post by rstregooski
 


The reality is that your interpretation of the Constitution is not "the constitution". Smarter people than you and I combined have argued about this since day one and haven't agreed on much of anything, so pretending you "know" the "truth" is BS.

Jefferson campaigned for years for free education and I bet he knew a thing or two about the constitution. Maybe not as much as you, but a thing or two. But maybe you are right. Maybe Jefferson didn't read the Constitution. Maybe you shoulda been there to clear things up for him

The arrogance of your crowd, that you think your completely extreme reading of the constitution is the ONLY real way to decipher it just shows how shallow a thinker you are. An inflexible ideologue. Like your hero. And like his hero, the welfare hating welfare receiving Ayn Rand.

Check out what this Founding Father said:

"The whole people must take upon themselves the education of the whole people and be willing to bear the expenses of it. There should not be a district of one mile square, without a school in it, not founded by a charitable individual, but maintained at the public expense of the people themselves."
— John Adams, U.S. President, 1785

Another Founding Father you know more about the constitution than.

These guys were idiots. They wrote a constitution explicitly stating that free education was a bad idea, and that education should be privatised, then they went out an campaigned for exactly the opposite thing.

Glad your here to let us know that their actions were meaningless; your reading is absolute.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 07:01 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 07:01 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 07:32 PM
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reply to post by captainnotsoobvious
 





Jefferson campaigned for years for free education


Pics or it didn't happen (at least regarding support for government-funded education)..

The idea that you think education should be completely free and government funded shows you to be the most anti-american person I've encountered in a while. Do you enjoy the expansion of government at the rate it's been increasing in the past 30 years? Do you like the idea that the government has to tell us what kind of light bulbs we can and cannot use, what food we can or cannot send our kids to school with now that there are state inspectors searching lunch boxes? And you never answered my question about your thoughts that basic education is a human right that the government should pay for, but college education is not? Or that college education is a human right that the government should pay for as well? You realize we are supposed to have a free-market economy, right? Have you thought this mentality of yours through to the extent it requires??
edit on 16-2-2012 by rstregooski because: beer



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 07:37 PM
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I know it's a mistake to get in the middle of a gunfight, especially between rstregooski and captainnotsoobvious, but is it possible that Jefferson and Adams wanted government schools everywhere, but that they were to be run by the state and not the federal government? That would satisfy me.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 07:49 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


Good point, If I recall correctly, it all began at the community level back in the day.. But the establishment of the Department of Education in the 80's was just one more step in the expansion of government and the dumbing-down of our youth through lower standards year by year by year..



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 01:50 AM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


It's about the level of government running them. It's about defunding them. The Libertarian ideal is to remove free education. It's being argued that free education is unconstitutional.

Do you think that's the case??



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 01:52 AM
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reply to post by rstregooski
 

It's not a good point, from your perspective. Either way relies of taxes to pay for education, which makes it a right, which you claim is unconstitutional.

Get your argument straight.



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 02:59 AM
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reply to post by rstregooski
 


You are so so so delusional.

You just said, "The idea that education should be totally free makes you the most anti-American person I've met in ages" [



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 05:23 AM
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Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by charles1952
 


It's about the level of government running them. It's about defunding them. The Libertarian ideal is to remove free education. It's being argued that free education is unconstitutional.

Do you think that's the case??


You yourself are not willing to fully explain your idea.. If basic education should be free, then how about med students? Should their 8 year post-college education be fully funded by the government?



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 05:29 AM
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reply to post by captainnotsoobvious
 





In his book Notes on the State of Virginia, (1785), Jefferson had described his ideas for public education at the elementary level. In 1817 he proposed a plan for a system of limited state public education for males only, in keeping with the times. It depended on public grammar schools, and further education of a limited number of the best students, and those whose parents wanted to pay for them


LIMITED state public education. Hmm, didn't see the words "UNLIMITED federal government-funded public education" anywhere in there. Dear troll, this thread was about a brief event concerning Ron Paul, and not even what you or I or anyone thinks of his policies, so please get the hell off my thread. Good day!
edit on 17-2-2012 by rstregooski because: oops



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 07:43 AM
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Originally posted by rstregooski

Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by rstregooski
 


Bwahahah well at least you finally have the balls to admit you want to deny education and healthcare to the poor.

How many Paul supporters agree? Thomas Jefferson didn't.

I guess he was one of the bad founding fathers.


Let's clarify your position here.. So you are saying that basic education is a right, but college education is not a right? Or college education is a right, so let's get the government to pay for that too and see how all of that works out.. Think about it..

So if you call yourself American than you must realize that the Constitution defines America. So to stick hard to the Constitution is crazy, is it? Because I've read it several times and it does not allow government to control education..
edit on 16-2-2012 by rstregooski because: (no reason given)
edit on 16-2-2012 by rstregooski because: (no reason given)


Control and fund are 2 pair of shoes. And what do you mean "lets see how that works out"? Its been done, goverment healthcare free education, in other countries. I dont know what images come to mind when I say France or Germany, but I dont see how somebody in America could not want some of that.



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 07:51 AM
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Originally posted by Cassius666

Originally posted by rstregooski

Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by rstregooski
 


Bwahahah well at least you finally have the balls to admit you want to deny education and healthcare to the poor.

How many Paul supporters agree? Thomas Jefferson didn't.

I guess he was one of the bad founding fathers.


Let's clarify your position here.. So you are saying that basic education is a right, but college education is not a right? Or college education is a right, so let's get the government to pay for that too and see how all of that works out.. Think about it..

So if you call yourself American than you must realize that the Constitution defines America. So to stick hard to the Constitution is crazy, is it? Because I've read it several times and it does not allow government to control education..
edit on 16-2-2012 by rstregooski because: (no reason given)
edit on 16-2-2012 by rstregooski because: (no reason given)


Control and fund are 2 pair of shoes. And what do you mean "lets see how that works out"? Its been done, goverment healthcare free education, in other countries. I dont know what images come to mind when I say France or Germany, but I dont see how somebody in America could not want some of that.



Control is the product of funding. And by "let's see how that works out", I mean in the midst of this massive government debt and spending crisis, let's see how it works out financially for the country if the government decides to pay every student's college tuition bill in the coutry, since captainsoobvious seems to think education should be fully funded by the government.
edit on 17-2-2012 by rstregooski because: early



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 08:23 AM
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Well admittably Germany and France do not have quite as many foreign military bases and I am not quite sure how much money they give to israel south korea etc.



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by rstregooski
 


Call me a troll all you want, because that's your last refuge. The fact of the matter is you said ANY state funding of education is unAmerican. You made no differentiation based on the extent or at a state of local level.

That's your obvious belief, and it's the Libertarians belief as well.

Trying to walk it back to, say, Jefferson claimed, "limited" state funding is a different story just underlines the size of your lie and the in-defensibility of your position. For about one minute you were honest, then you turned into another political idiot, trying to have your crazy ideology and appear not crazy. Good luck.

The Founding Fathers believed in some form of taxes for some sort of public education. Jefferson, in fact most of them, believed in free elementary education for boys. Something the Libertarian party (and you) claimed was unconstitutional. It is quite obviously not. Something you claimed was unAmerican, It again, quite obviously is not.

Here's the quote again:


The idea that you think education should be completely free and government funded shows you to be the most anti-american person I've encountered in a while.


It's also an incredibly classist and, above all, STUPID idea.

The US is falling behind in almost every category and people like you think that cutting education, or only educating the kids of the rich is gonna HELP. THAT is unAmerican.
edit on 17-2-2012 by captainnotsoobvious because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 03:02 PM
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reply to post by captainnotsoobvious
 




The fact of the matter is you said ANY state funding of education is unAmerican.

Well I'd be interested to see where you saw that. Perhaps I have not clarified this. The whole argument is that FEDERAL government should not be involved at all with education. Are you not aware of the dumbing-down of our youth since the federal government's become increasingly involved? It's because the government gets what it pays for. Our society is getting dumber and dumber every year.

Please Read This before responding...

It's also another way to get rid of ever larger sums of American money, as Robert Welch Accurately Predicted in 1958...

For actual states to fund education, through property and local taxes is completely incomparable, as it is not federally mandated.. Bring me something where you see Jefferson or somebody similar talking about FEDERAL funding and you have an argument, but I know you won't find that..

Lest we forget, the Department of Education has only been in existence for 32 years.. My God, what on earth did we do before then??
edit on 17-2-2012 by rstregooski because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 03:24 PM
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reply to post by rstregooski
 


You'd be interested to see where you said that?

When you said:



The idea that you think education should be completely free and government funded shows you to be the most anti-american person I've encountered in a while.


As for the dumbing down, etc., you are again, in a completely ridiculous move, throwing the baby (and their education) out with the bathwater. FIX THE EXISTING STATE FUNDED EDUCATION SYSTEM. Do NOT throw it out and replace it with a for profit system which leaves millions without a basic education.

Very simple stuff here.

As for your sudden turn that STATE TAXES for education is fine, that completely goes against your previous quote:



The idea that you think education should be completely free and government funded shows you to be the most anti-american person I've encountered in a while.


And actually doesn't make any sense anyway. Someone is still taking your money. There's still no guarantee the education will be good or reflect your values and on top of all of that it contradicts the Libertarian party platform which you were agreeing with earlier.

You're simply trying to hide your stupid mistakes by turning this into a different argument (states rights BS).

At this point, almost 90% of funding for elementary and secondary schools comes from State, local and other sources, that are NOT Federal.

IF you are SERIOUSLY saying that removing 10% of the funding for education is going to fix the problem than you're more clueless than I thought.

It's these kind of harebrained schemes that prevent anyone but the fringes of America from supporting these candidates...
edit on 17-2-2012 by captainnotsoobvious because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 03:30 PM
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reply to post by captainnotsoobvious
 

Dear captainnotsoobvious,

I'm sorry it's taken me so long to respond to your question.

I don't know what the Libertarian ideal is, and I'll never pretend to be well informed about their positions. But my personal answer is that the Constitution should be read so as to grant very limited power to the federal government, and very broad powers to the state.

I could accept the idea of the states controlling and funding their own educational systems free of federal influence. But I'm always open for discussion.

With respect,
Charles1952





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