Why do YOU love Israel?

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by rigel4

 

and what is Israel? Fundamentalist what? A fundamentally democratic society? I agree.

GEEZUS. People make comments here that make no sense at all. Fundamentalist refers to someone who is very religiously conservative. LOOK up Israel, it's society and culture, before you say something as ignorant as "israel is fundamentalist".

Well, some Israelis are actually quite desperate about precisely that. Maybe fundamentalism is not the word they use but orthodox and ultra-orthodox (many of which were not even born in Israel but immigrants from Eastern Europe).

The Israel Democracy Institute has just published a major survey that gives an insight into Israeli society. Its major findings are that an average of 90 percent see Jewish lifecycle rituals as important or very important. Some 87 percent believe food served in public institutions should be kosher, 80 percent believe in God and that good deeds are rewarded, and 67 percent believe that Jews are the chosen people. Some 65 percent believe that the Torah is God Given. Even though only 24% of Israeli Jews are orthodox or ultra-orthodox, Israeli society tends towards religious traditionalism. Israeli society is less religious than the U.S. Some 85 percent of Americans say that religion is important or very important in their lives. But the U.S. has a constitution that makes sure that religion and the state are strictly separated. Also, the U.S. religious landscape is incredibly varied: even the majority religion, Protestant Christianity, is composed of many different churches. As opposed to Israel, where the orthodox establishment has a monopoly on religious affairs, and is powerfully involved in the lives of citizens from cradle to grave. It is therefore time for Israeli society to bury a long-lasting myth: the belief that secular, liberal Israelis are the mainstream that in the future will once again own the country. The mirror image of this belief is the program of the current coalition that says that “the secular left has kept the country captive by controlling the political, judicial and cultural elites. Now that we are the majority, we finally want to rule the country according to our values.”

Haaretz

I love Israel because of Frasier, the Jewish version.

Looks like Iran Supreme religion person sees a "Big Event" on the way:



www.wnd.com...


Iran warns world of coming great event
Says 'evil hegemony' soon will be defeated by power of Allah

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Amid crippling sanctions over its nuclear weapons program, Iran is continuing to prepare itself for war against the West, and now is warning of a coming great event.

“In light of the realization of the divine promise by almighty God, the Zionists and the Great Satan (America) will soon be defeated,” Ayatollah Khamenei, the Iranian supreme leader, is warning.

----

In the book, “A Time to Betray,” the CIA spy in the revolutionary guards reveals the mindset of the Shi’ite clerics and how they aspire for the destruction of the world. They truly believe the end of time is here. As revealed last year, the Iranian secret documentary “The Coming is Upon Us” clearly indicates that the radicals ruling Iran believe the destruction of Israel will trigger the coming of last Islamic Messiah.

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Even the Iran types see a new messiah----and a huge nuclear war.



english.farsnews.com...

Son of Renowned US Director, Sean Stone, Converts to Islam

TEHRAN (FNA)- Son of Oliver Stone, the renowned Oscar-winning US director, converted to Islam in a ceremony in the Central Iranian city of Isfahan on February 14.

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by HattoriHanzou

 

As I said...the U.S. plan is to let Iran implode on itself. The problem only arrises if Irans Old Guard Leadership does something stupid...and when it comes to Iran...syupid is their middle name....why threaten the one of two only things that could actually start a war...that being...threaten to close the Strait with their Navy....the other would be a statement declaring they have Nukes.

In either case if Iran actually attempted or did this...the U.S. would have no option other than to go in.
Split Infinity

If Iran's leadership is so stupid, how have they successfully weathered 30+ years of covert attempts by the west to undermine and destroy it? They turned the CIA / MI6 / Mossad's little Green Revolution inside out with great efficiency. This was only the most recent attempt to take over or destroy their government.

Never underestimate a potential adversary. It may make you feel good to call Iran's leadership stupid, but clearly they are more capable than the CIA, MI6, and Mossad combined. You could read some Sun Tzu and learn why underestimation is an often fatal mistake.

If Iran declared that they had nuclear weapons, there would be nothing we could do any more. Once a nation has nuclear weapons, the only option is negotiation. Kim Jong Il saw the truth of this, and once he tested his nuke we started playing to the tune of his fiddle. If Iran does indeed create nuclear weapons, the game in the middle east will change big time.

Also, regarding the Strait of Hormuz - Iran has threatened to close it as a response to economic war being threatened against them. Bear in mind that it is NATO, not the UN, which has tried to coax Iran into making the first aggressive move. Is Iran off the coast of the USA, threatening to close down our shipping unless we abandon our nuclear program?

You must realize that the double standard you have gotten used to is not applicable any more.

I will give you this....in the past....the CIA and NSA as well as a MULTITUDE of U.S. power players made HUGE mistakes and miscalculations as to dealing with IRAN. In their Western Concepual thinking was the error of misconception...that being...Why would any group of people want to revert back to a STONE AGE version of Law and Action? The Western powers just did not understand why our Chocolate Dipped Strawberry and Stick approach did not work given the vast amount of benifit that would lead to the Iranians if they choose the U.S. Chocolate Strawberry.

It was not until RONALD REAGAN took office that an appropriate relationship between the U.S. and Iran took shape...that being and Reagan said...They may not like us...but they sure as Hell are going to RESPECT US! The moment that Ronald Reagan was sworn into Office as U.S. President...Iran released the American Hostages..as Reagan had made it clear that if they did not....there would be Hell to pay and the Iranians knew he was not bluffing. Here we are again...similar situation...Iran is playing with Fire by not alowing in UN Nuclear Inspectors and Iran is breaking the Nuclear NP Treaty and there is a problem once more aver U.S. signals and communication over this...the STUPIDITY I am refering to is Iranian statements that were obviously not well thought out as these two statement are probably the only two in the world that would make possible a U.S. INVASION of a Country the U.S. already knows in going down in flames all on it's own. A WAR would be just a waste of time because Iran Possesing a NUKE or some febile attempt at an Iranian attempt at Closing the Strait...can be delt with by U.S. Forces but we don't want Israel in the picture but they are screaming bloody murder and we have told them...if one of these two threats actually happens...the U.S. will ATTACK...but we are not going to let Israel to HALF ASS the whole thing by blowing up Iranian Nuclear sites with convetional weapons thus poison the whole region...a Region that we have promised to Russia and China that we would keep their energy demands met if the U.S. had to attack plus we don't want to kill Millions of People who are ALREADY VERY PRO-WEST...the youth of Iran.With any luck...Iranian Leadership will come to it's senses...if not...we will see the U.S. use secret weaponry for the first time in Many Years that are GAME CHANGERS! This will be to protect Tens of Thousands of Special Forces as well as U.S. Airborne Rangers from being put at jepordy from any counter Iranian Groung attack.

IRAN thinks it's a BAD ASS MILITARY POWERHOUSE...but as you yourself have spoken about underestimating a FOE....SUN SZU...any yes I have read ART OF WAR...he wrote alot about provoking your enemy to get them to irationally attack you...continued Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity
Continued....
Provocation of an Enemy in order to get tham to irrationaly attack you at a place and time in which is not of their choice or familiarality in order for you to gain the knowledge of the Land and make it a War on your Turf which you have frst Bobbie Trapped and know where the High Ground is and all the ins and outs.

Well...the U.S. Military does this better than any Military on the face of the Earth Past and Present...SUN TZU is required reading for all leadership and even a grunt reads it. Tactics by X-Enemies such as ERWIN ROMMEL are practiced at all U.S. Tank Schools especially down at Fort Knox. In a strry I am sure alot of you know...during the Iraq war...a entire surrendering Iraqi Republican Guard division was being picked up and sent to the rear and in one case...a Waht was left of a Platoon of Iraqi's were placed inside a Bradly where a am Iraqui Officer increduously asked a U.S. Army Corporal...after seeing a picture of ERWIN ROMMEL stuck uo on the inside Bradley Wall...and this Iraqui officer asked in perfect english...WHY!?! Why do American Soldiers have a Picture of there WWII ENEMY posted on the inside of their Military Fighting Vehicle? The man was GENUINELY CONFUSED and actually became a bit frightened that perhaps He and his Men had actually surrendered to a fake group of another county pretending to be Americans as it was well known at that time that American troops would provide food and water to any rescuing Military.

The young Corporal had to restrain the now frightened Iraqui Officr who was trying to escape...the Corporal pushed him back down into a sitting position and yelled....WHY DON'T YOU...JUST SHUT THE F%@# UP! If you had studied or paid attention to General Rommels teachings....then maybe you wouldn't be a prisoner in my Bradley right now! Rommel also read Art of War.

As far as how this all pertains to Israel...It is not a LOVE for ISRAEL that puts the United States into these positions but rather a Religious Persian plan to gain the respect of Arab nations all the while drawing then in with trust by standing up to the Greatest Military Power that has ever existed all the while IRAN has a third plan on the table that is doomed to failure but they will not admit it and I fear for the Hundreds of Millions of people in the Middle East who Iran is gambling their lives on. Iran WANT'S ISRAEL to ATTACK IRANIAN NUCLEAR FACILITIES. This act will turn the fragile Middle Eastern Mans attitude into one of REVENGE and if this happens...the U.S. will have NO CHOICE....we will have ti once and fro all elliminate the problem.

I hope this does not happen as we are SOOO CLOSE to the day when the Iranian people electng their own leaders and become either a Democratic Republic or a Palimentary system. So hopefully we will not have to pull the trigger as that would be a shame. Split Infinity

Don't worry too much, as I doubt anyone will get the chance to do so. Marry a cell phone to a suitcase nuke, and one doesn't need a delivery system, rocket or otherwise.

But there are also lots of rockets on the loose, and the Libyans may well make a statement from the great beyond:


www.outsidethebeltway.com...

Up To 20,000 Missiles Reported Missing From Libya


“In Libya we’re talking about something on the order of 20,000 surface-to-air missiles,” said Bouckaert. “This is one of the greatest stockpiles of these weapons that has ever gone on the loose.”

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The Mossad is already provoking Iran with sticky bombs on scientist's cars and other dirty deals. The Iranians are playing real cool with complaints to the world court, building their case.

Russian reactor folks also know all the secrets for suitcase nukes and Iran appears more than ready for their "Big Event."

Kiss a few carriers good-bye, and a chuck of the US. The US didn't notice when Cuba was filled with Nukes, and these days the Russians play a much better game than then. In a blink of the eye, all can change.

Plus, depending on who has the Star War biggest game, it goes right past conventional weapons at the speed of light with the power of ten nukes. It makes Russia's Tunguska Blast a toy.


The US is closer now to a nuclear war than JFK was with Cuba.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
reply to post by Truth_Hz

 

But thats the thing, some peoples terrorists are other peoples freedom fighters. Nelson Mandela was once considered a terrorist and put in jail.

It's about the power relationships, if you dont have the power of the state and a military industrial complex, then you must resort to other tactics to make your point. I certainly do not condone the murdering of innocents, but our own governments are just as guilty as terrorist organisations in killing civillians.

Surely it is more cowardly to drop bombs from planes or rockets from an unmanned drone, being operated by someone thousands of miles away? Drone attacks have killed more innocent people in Pakistan than their intended terrorist targets.

I will take it easy on you even though your post at first really pissed me off but then I remembered who it was comming from and that is why at my age....I still fly off to hell holes and work with Military Kids less than Half My Age and try hard to keep up as they fly over terrain at 15 mph wearing full gear while I huff and Puff and try to keep up to supposedy....if intell. is correct....catch our enemy off guard....not to kill them but to TURN THEM...as THAT IS MY JOB....and being able to swoop into an enemies encampment...not to kill them...but to show how easy it would have been for us and we are hear to talk and to leave either as an ENEMY or as a FRIEND....sometimes a paid friend...but we impart the message....we will pay you more than THEY PAY YOU....but if you double cross us....next time we come back....it won't be to talk....it will be at night....and you will never see your son grow up! Split Infinity