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Marine fatally shot in his car by police in front of his two young daughters

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posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 01:30 PM
Everything is illegal! Get used to it, they will shoot you whenever for whatever they want.

posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 01:32 PM

Originally posted by onequestion
Orange County is a dirty place that is known within its borders as a place that covers up many crimes of its police force and county jail system. Having have gone through the system in OC i know that the police in this part of the country will not think twice before taking violent action on anyone for any reason.

That is exactly what I was saying. I try not to even drive through Orange County anymore unless I'm going to Disneyland or San Diego. That place is so freakin' foul and corrupt...not to mention out of control. A bunch of cowards.

I also speak from experience my family and I had with a Los Angeles County Sheriff's Team who had all previously worked as deputies in the O.C.S.D.. All the way through our trail which we won, these guys and I mean every single one of them, continuously perjured themselves in a court of law knowing that there were multiple witnesses. Case was dismissed but not one of them fired for what they had done to my family nor for their illegal conduct as Peace Officers. Lol....what an oxymoron ehhh....Peace Officers.....yeah right!

Makes me think of the real Wild West days.

posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 01:42 PM

off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 02:05 PM
If a civilian shoots a cop, its a federal crime specifically against police. If a civilian shoots a soldier, its a federal crime specifically against the military. If a police officer shoots a soldier, its apparently fairly okay considering they havent imprisoned the police officer?

Does this make sense?

posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 02:06 PM
reply to post by ravenflt

My friend, if that is the case, I will personally take out any officer who points a gun at me. As the post below mentions, wild west. I dont care what your career designation is, you point a gun at me you better kill me with it. If you dont, I'm feeding it to you.

posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 02:10 PM
Didn't a bunch of American marines recently go unpunished for the Haditha massacre? That involved the killing of 20+ unarmed women and kids. Didn't we see recently a group of American marines pissing on the bodies of dead men in Afghanistan?

These gung ho cops are acting no different than the gung ho marines - only they didn't shoot children point blank in the face! Why are some of you calling for the cops' blood? Why shouldn't they get away with it like the Haditha marines did? Collateral damage works both ways, folks!

If the victim here had been of middle-eastern origin we'd no doubt be hearing the USA - USA - USA - USA chant once more!

posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 02:13 PM
The officer failed to do his job by design on the following fact: the correct weapon for the situation is a taser. Especially around a school. The news is incomplete for the truth.

This leads me to believe that this was not offense related.

What was the occupation of the gunshot victim? The news says he was a veteran, but he isn't a veteran for a living.

Was the officer also a veteran? So you see that the argument of veterans having special privileges to a right to life or seniority to living is misdirection. The other misguided argument is that he with the most badges is right in the situation. Rights go beyond the badge and the service to all people.

If I had to make a theory, it would be that the man in the car was assassinated for something he knew about the shooter.

posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 02:15 PM
reply to post by loam

What it not just last week that a female teacher was shot 6 times by a police officer in a High school parking lot??


thats my soft-spoken opinion.

posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 02:24 PM
9 pages read twice and despite the evidence making the cops either look like complete amateurs or like they set up the thing by letting him into the vehicle so the cop could use the "vehicle as deadly weapon" to coward cap the guy in the back.It is vigorously and well defended as a good shoot until the evidence is in. Or guilty till proven innocent, right?
Again all the story is not out and we will be lucky to get to hear what the girls say, and hear a lot about it from LE. But they failed to act until he was back in the vehicle and then truly endangered the children in the back seat by firing thru the vehicle to shoot him from behind.
The LE response if full of excuses to escalate force and actions based on "perceived threat".
The vigorous defense of same is well researched and has some strong backing. The defense seems to damn more than exonerate when a man's life is decided on another person's fear (perceived threat) of them. When you can kill without penalty for what an unarmed man might do, You need checked.
Will add if they try the vehicle /deadly weapon crap the cop who let him back into the car armed him and is an accomplice, right?
As my kid would say "$H1t is wack "
But it sums it up well.

posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 02:30 PM

Originally posted by loam

Marine killed by O.C. deputy outside school wasn't armed, sheriff says

A Marine sergeant fatally shot by an Orange County Sheriff's deputy in a dark San Clemente high school parking lot this week was not armed and the incident doesn't appear to be alcohol- or drug-related, sheriff's officials said.

A sheriff's spokesman said the deputy feared for the safety of two young girls sitting in a parked car when he shot Marine Sgt. Manuel Loggins Jr. Tuesday. The shooting occurred as Loggins started to get into the SUV where his two daughters — ages 9 and 14 — were sitting, authorities said.

Jim Amormino, a spokesman for the Sheriff's Department, said the deputy was fearful that Loggins — who he said appeared to be acting irrationally — was about the drive off with the girls.

First question, why didnt the cop just taser him? Or why not shoot him in the leg? Or a warning shot?
Second, did the cop consider that he could have shot the girls by accident?
Third, was the man under arrest? Why did he not have the right to leave without getting shot?

posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 02:55 PM
reply to post by Iamonlyhuman

Forum cop! You're one of THEM! Come on.. admit it.

I need a "Forum Cop" Badge for when I get pulled over for speeding! Professional courtesy and all that jazz. Might come in handy!

posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 03:07 PM
No Police on here wants to comment on what a ham sandwich is? I will tell you this for a fact. From Seattle to San Diego and Miami to New York and from Chicago to Fairbanks and on to Honolulu, they each know what a ham sandwich is.
I have a relative who has explained how getting called off cases for getting too close can be common for detectives. Usually, it is under the guise of interfering with cases much bigger and more important. Sometimes a reward for fidelity to duty can be in place with non traceable income. Promotion, easy duty, etc. He is retiring. He seems like it is more of a surrendering. His belief is if you wanted to overthrow the USA you would do it financially and from the inside. We spent all this money on military and while the dogs were outside the fence the foxes are in the henhouse.

posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 03:12 PM

Originally posted by Domo1
reply to post by biggmoneyme

Because the majority of citizens in the US don't hate police. I have found that it's usually only the poor, the uneducated, the criminals or people with authority issues that lash out against police. I think the majority of ATS users fit into at least one or two of those categories.

Maybe, but what percentage of the USA the people you describe are part of? 51%? 60%? 70%? If you chose any of those answers then we can safely say that the majority hates them. These days, there are a lot of poor and uneducated people in the "land of the free".

That being said, i really don't agree with you. But maybe the word hate is a big one. I would rather use despise. I know a lot of people that aren't poor, uneducated, criminals or having any known authority issues, and they don't like the behavior of lot police officers these days. They tend to be cocky and treat anyone like criminals.

I think that's what "biggmoneyme" was trying to say. But that's just my opinion.

Peace out.

posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 03:15 PM
Just an update for those that are interested. It appears that the Association of Orange County Sheriff's Deputies states that what the deputy did was justified. There is also a narrative of what happened.

Deputies' Union Defends Fatal Shooting of Marine

On February, 7, 2012, at around 4:30 in the morning, Manuel Loggins Jr., 31, driving with his two daughters, 9 and 14, unseatbelted in the back seat of his GMC Yukon, plowed through a locked gate at San Clemente High School.

The force of the crash left sections of the gate embedded in the bottom of the Yukon and drew the attention of an on-duty sheriff’s deputy who was in an adjacent parking lot writing reports.

After coming to a stop, Loggins got out of the Yukon, ignored repeated orders from the uniformed deputy sheriff, and walked off into the dark, abandoning his two daughters left behind in the Yukon. The deputy began to follow Loggins on foot when he heard children’s screams coming from the car. The deputy then returned to the Yukon, and found Loggins’ two girls.

Loggins, now in a darkened part of the adjacent field, could be heard yelling irrational statements. The deputy radioed for immediate assistance, informing dispatchers of a hit-and-run accident and child endangerment situation.

Additional sheriff’s personnel arrived and comforted the children in the back seat. Loggins’ children told deputies their father had been acting oddly. A few minutes later, Loggins unexpectedly and quickly returned to his Yukon. Deputies repeatedly ordered him to stop. Loggins did not stop, ignoring the deputies who now had their weapons drawn and got into the driver’s side of the car, despite multiple warnings.

Deputies warned Loggins not to start the car. Loggins ignored these and repeated other warnings, started the Yukon and placed it in gear. It was then clear that Loggins was going to drive off and further endanger the children. As the Yukon began to move forward, he was shot by the deputy next to the driver’s window. The car was stopped, the children were removed and medical aid was rendered to Loggins, who did not survive.

Herre is another interesting article.

Stunned Friend Recalls Kindness of Marine Killed by Deputy

I know he would never jeopardize the lives of his girls nor ever disobey an order," said Darlene Patino-Rousch of Mission Viejo, who said she studied nursing with Sgt. Manny Loggins Jr. at Stanbridge College in Irvine.

posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 03:23 PM
reply to post by elouina

And the whitewash is complete.

Cops investigating cops.

Open season on Unarmed citizens continues.

posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 03:36 PM

Originally posted by ThePublicEnemyNo1Remember the retired sheriff's unarmed homeless son that was beaten in front of like 50 witnesses by 6 cops and died a week later from those injuries....that was O.C. too. Wonder what happened to those deputies

His name was Kelly Thomas.

The police, and all their various protectors are circling the wagons hoping it will fade from public memory and it seems to be unfortunately.
I remember though
I also remember how many times the police have used me for a mere revenue source ( tickets- seat belt, parking a motorcycle in a clear spot and when a car moved it sideways and parked behind me I got the ticket, Having once cop use me as an example to ) When I had a person help themselves to my property they snickered...until I tracked it down and found it then (When all the hard work (BTW-Its not that hard) and danger was over) they couldn't act fact enough to grab the credit and stamp a (property recovered star on the file) and wave it around like they actually did something - they didn't, they don't but when it is all safe they are all too willing to grab the credit like the most sneaky bosses pet coworker you will ever cross paths with.

edit on 14-2-2012 by VforVendettea because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 03:49 PM
reply to post by Tw0Sides

Yep cops investigating cops. Of course they are gonna say it was justified.


Sad very very sad.

posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 04:16 PM
reply to post by ClydeFrog42

It was a church parking lot - that is worse than a school IMO.

posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 04:26 PM
I only had time to ready about halfway through this thread and hopefully I didn't miss anything significant, but I felt compelled to reply with my thoughts about this situation, Xcathadra, and LEO's in general...

Unless the suspect is in the act of committing a violent crime, shooting at police, etc, the LEO is usually going to be on the negative side of public opinion when shooting/tasing/roughing up an unarmed person. Right or wrong, this is more often that not the way it will play out because it seems to be happening more and more often, and We The People are getting sick of it.

Regarding Xcathadra - He is obviously intelligent and well spoken (written/typed) which I can respect. He is logical and goes by the letter of the law - something I don't always agree with. Just because it is the law doesn't make it "right". He gets a lot of flack because of this, especially when dealing with issues like this that evoke strong emotional responses in people.

There are even times when I occasionally agree with him (Maybe 10 - 20%). The shooting out tires thing and wounding are a couple in this thread (Beyond that I can't remember as it is pretty rare... lol ) - Shooting out the tires on a vehicle does not stop it from moving. Ever had a flat tire? You know it's not good to keep going, but if you wanted to you could... This is proven on many reality tv shows where a suspect is being pursued and blows out a tire - they keep on going, often with a light show from the sparks and really bad handing, but they keep going for a while... As far as wounding goes, those of us with a military background know that if you are in a situation that justifies the use of a firearm, you aim for center-mass, for the reasons he stated. In addition, if you wound someone,that does not necessarily stop the threat.

With respect to this particular situation, I don't think it was justified (obviously I wasn't there, so this is based on what I have read). Yes, Xcathadra has made it very clear we don't know what this guy said to the cop, so I'll give him that there is a chance (very small) that he said something that would warrant the shooting. But, let's assume that it wasn't for now. Should he have fired? I don't think so... There was damage to his vehicle - ok, so he damaged some property, does that require deadly force? One option would be a taser if available - as much as I dislike its common usage for simple noncompliance, it is preferred to death. Absent that, follow him, run his plates, find out who he is and send someone to his house to see if there is anything going on. Seems that backup was already in the area, have them block his path. Simply getting in your car and starting the engine should not be a death sentence...

Xcathadra likes to keep bringing up the idea of "perceived threat" - LEO's are very well aware of this and WILL use it to cover there ass. Ever hear of a cop admit they were wrong? "Sorry, I f'd up. the guy was innocent and I shot him by mistake". NEVER going to happen. They will spin the story anyway they can and throw the "perceived threat" get out of jail free card every time. Why do you think they always say, "Stop resisting!" when people are not resisting? That's so they can use anyone in the area who heard it as a witness to imply that the suspect was resisting arrest and to justify their use of police brutality.

Here's an example - My son was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Police were looking for someone that had committed a crime in the area. There were 3-4 officers and they had a K-9 with them. They happened across my son and told him to lay down on the ground. He complied, face down, arms spread out. Then they sent the dog to go after him, which then proceeded to bite his arm. While this is going on, the cops are laughing about it. Here's the end result - they took him to the hospital for to get some stitches and a $1000 medical bill. No charges were filed and now his arm is scarred up...

In another situation, the police came to our house to question our son regarding a crime at the local grocery store a couple blocks away since our son is now known to them and they were just sure that he had done it - they were just itching to pin something on him. I was at work and my wife knew our son had been at home sleeping all morning, so she said only if you have a warrant. The the cop tried to bully my wife into giving up her rights to make his life easier saying, "Ok, we'll get a warrant, but then we'll just come and kick down the door. When she wouldn't budge he tried to bully her into submission by writing a ticket for our car being illegally parked in front of our house. Long story short, our son is sick of the BS, comes to the door, their witness says it wasn't him, cop is proven wrong and takes back the ticket. THAT is a serious abuse of authority and ALL TOO COMMON!!!


posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 04:26 PM

Xcathadra, the reason everyone seems to be against you most of the time is because things like this happen way too often and the police assume everyone is a criminal and treat innocent people as such. Well the people are now starting to assume all police are corrupt because of a few (I hope only a few) bad apples...

I will say that I've have had a couple of traffic encounters with LEO's that were courteous, professional, and polite. Even though I was in the wrong and didn't like the end result, I couldn't get mad at them because they acted the right way. If only all of them were like this. But I have also had even more when they were rude/disrespectful for no good reason.

Anyway, it's late and I'm tired. Hopefully I didn't ramble on too much...

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