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What have you become America? "America's homeless resort to tent cities"

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posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 06:33 AM
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Originally posted by AmatuerSkyWatcher

I'm British, and no matter what you may think of us, this would not happen here. How can your government justify spending billions on wars and proxy wars, yet let this happen to your own people? How can the richest country on the planet, with the richest population let this happen to their neighbours?

I'm not Catholic, but I have seen the hate dished out to the Catholic church on this site. They may be child molesters and murderers, but it seem's to me, they are the one's feeding and helping these people. What are you doing?

Shame on you.


When you say shame on "you", who exactly are you referring to? The people who were elected to run this country or the common man who has to live in the country they're supposed to be running. You seem a little naive when it comes to this sort of thing so I'm going to cut you a break. This time.

The people who run this country don't care a lot for us citizens. Don't get me wrong, there are a few politicians left who sincerely care, but these are the ones whose respective party leaders are not going to let them run for POTUS. The ones who care are very likely never going to be in a position where they can effect any real change. Why? Because the highest of political leaders have others higher than them to answer to. And it aint us. It's the people and corporations who have the money and contacts to keep politicians in positions that keep them getting elected. Our politicians are bought and sold to the highest bidder basically.

If by "you" you are referring to the common man, what exactly is it that you think we should be doing that we're not? You try and tell us that we're letting our fellow countrymen down without offering up any suggestions of your own. THEN you go on to criticize people for turning a blind eye. All behind the comfort of your computer screen. Again, what is it that you expect us to do? Overthrow our Government? I've got news for you. Our government answers to people who have more money, power and control than them, so we wouldn't be overthrowing our government, we would be overthrowing an entity that we know very little if anything about. And that's when things would really turn ugly. What we do know is that they have the money and power to dictate American politics and therefore the "American" way of life. And it doesn't necessarily have to be the Bildeburgs or Rothschilds either. It could any any number of corporations that have more money than you will ever realize. And this INCLUDES the Catholic church. (You brought them up, not me.)

BTW, by your reasoning it's OK to be a murderer and/or molester as you as you help the needy? Remind me never to take advice from you.

You keep saying over and over that this would never happen in your country. Give it time and it will. I guarentee it. And that guarentee comes from history, not me. History shows us that in situations like this things will have to get worse before they can get better. Take a look at the world around you. Not just America. Everyone is going to a financial hell in a handbasket and things are not looking better right now. Things WILL get worse. And yes, this includes your beloved Britain. You say there are accomodations people can use to keep them off the streets and out of tents. Are you guys building more buildings to where you can keep pace with the growing number of homeless?

www.ons.gov.uk...

www.crisis.org.uk...

www.telegraph.co.uk...

The first link shows a NET growth in construction of 7.3%

The second link shows an overall stagnation or an outright decrease in the homeless population but does not take into account the overall population growth in those stats.

That's what the 3rd link shows. As it stands right now, you don't have the infrastucture in place to accomodate the growth in population which, by the way, seems to be coming from immigrants. ( How does it feel?) Add to that the fact that new building construction isn't keeping pace either. It's just a matter of time before you look out your window and see tents pitched in the dirty moonlight of a deep freeze in the middle of winter. People lie my friend, but numbers never do.

Don't think for a second that Britain is immune from the problems the rest of the world is facing. You guys are nothing special.

youtu.be...

youtu.be...






posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 07:58 AM
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The UK doesn't have "tent cities", though it could be argued that we have caravan cities (gypsies).

We do have a huge homeless problem, as does any developed country. I can take a 10 minute walk from where I live, and show you disused buildings, filled with mattresses and blankets used by the homeless at night.

It is my belief that the only reason we don't have "tent cities" is because the police move them on before they can get established, not because we treat our destitute better. In fact, by not letting them congregate in tent cities, it could be argued that we treat them worse.



posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 08:54 AM
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Originally posted by BMorris
The UK doesn't have "tent cities", though it could be argued that we have caravan cities (gypsies).

We do have a huge homeless problem, as does any developed country. I can take a 10 minute walk from where I live, and show you disused buildings, filled with mattresses and blankets used by the homeless at night.

It is my belief that the only reason we don't have "tent cities" is because the police move them on before they can get established, not because we treat our destitute better. In fact, by not letting them congregate in tent cities, it could be argued that we treat them worse.


I think the only reason Americas law allows tent cities is because we have alot of unseud lands here. We have more unused land then used land, it is easy for homeless to get lost in the landscapes. its easy to stay out of sight out of mind



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 03:33 AM
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Originally posted by Apollo7

Its Horrible Here!! We are not even really Free!! I have to live with someone, because I cannot afford housing. I work 50 hours a week and still dont have enough to cover all of my bills and housing. I work in Health Care..my job is a Bio-Hazard Risk..I love the people that I take care of..but it is so dangerous!! I am working at CNA Level..next level is LPN and then RN..I make 10.25 an hour..and I take care of 10 people. My Health Insurance Cost is what is tearing me apart..It cost me 300.00 a month to cover me and my child..It is costing me 60.00 a week just to go back and forth to work..Food Prices are outrangeous.


This reminds me of some terrible times when i was still living in the states, so i can understand what you are saying.

But what i don't understand is that you say you work 50 hrs for $10.25/hr which means you are making $2k/month..which is not a whole lot for that crazy amount of work...but it's at least something.
And you say you live with someone..so i cannot see your rent being that high?

I am just a little puzzled because overall this means you are STILL better off than many who do NOT have $2000 per month and do NOT have health insurance.

However, i agree, doctor's bills in the states etc. is all retarded - actually, that whole system over there is screwed up.
edit on 15-2-2012 by flexy123 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2012 @ 05:03 AM
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reply to post by AmatuerSkyWatcher
 


Well tent's are a good idea as a quick fix, but there has to be a way to get them good tents. Military grade tents. Heck even small pre-fab homes the size of a large shed would be something easy and cheap.

They need to throw the construction/housing industry under the bus. It is insane how a bloated industry can create a mafia style racket that causes mass homelessness.



posted on Feb, 19 2012 @ 05:46 AM
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May I suggest a history book to put things in perspective? This is not the first time this has happened. If you go back and look at some of the photos from the 1930s, the Great Depression, and the Dust Bowl Era... you will find many photos of disenchanted and disenfranchised Americans living in tents, canopied cities, and wagons and vehicles.

The problem and circumstance was so prevalent as to be portrayed in most movies depicting the era...example is "Bonnie and Clyde" with Warren Beaty. Or perhaps a book... The Grapes of Wrath or Of Mice and Men. Listen to the songs of Merle Haggard..."Mama's Hungry Eyes" or "Daddy Frank" or "California Cottenfields."

Now this is not to justify the situation... it is sad and pitiful. Things are tough right now, but they are still not as bad as they were then. Talk to those that grew up during the Depression... there are still many around. Listen to their stories. Hunger, dispair, long, hard days of labor for pennies. Imagine picking cotten all day... sunup to sundown for a dollar. Imagine walking a few miles to the saw mill... working 10-12 hours... walking back home and then trying to work your fields in the full moon light. My folks did it, and many more like them.

I myself have been there. Poor, destitute, eating out of trash cans, buying dayold stale donuts for 10cents each so I could eat breakfast and lunch, then coming home to a barn, taking a cup of corn meal, some water, a little grease... and frying corn bread on an open fire...for several weeks at a time until I could save some money. Then I had eggs and corn bread. When I finally had saved enough to buy a woodstove to heat and cook on...man, I was rich.

Point it, we all have made mistakes. We all have to pay for those mistakes. These are costly lessons. But this is where you seperate the weak from the strong... the survivor and the prey. Nothing motivates someone to succeed like being cold and hungry.

I took on as many pert time jobs as I could. I grew a garden. I cut wood. I sold potatoes, tomatoes, firewood.... I cut grass, worked bread routes, snack routes, anything to make a legitamate dollar.... and I survived.

Now, as for the folks in the tents.. it really is up to them if they stay in the tents or move on to something better. And that is the main ideal of America... individualism. It is a two edged sword... full of risks but full of potential for success. That is what, I feel, seperates us from the rest of the world. The chance for the individual to succeed or fail. Many of these tent dwellers have no more than the pioneers and settlers that first came to America and moved across it's plains and mountains. Some will fail... some will excell. It is up to the individual to be strong, creative, motivated, and find a way.



posted on Feb, 19 2012 @ 06:19 AM
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I can't help it but I love the sight of those home and jobless Americans in tents and eventually it will become more and more untill the whole USA is homeless, and I just can't help it, but I love it !!

This is the best punishment for those who supported a country who starts wars on global scale, a country which supported slavery back in the days, a country which drains the earth of it's resources on a major scale (oil, gas, water, food), a country which pollutes the air like no other and who indoctrinates the rest of the world with propaganda hidden in sitcoms, movies, music, advertisements, educations and which poisened the rest of the world with bad and unhealthy foods and drinks. Not to mention the extremely bad consequences for the rest of the world which are caused by America and Americans to support their flamboyant lifestyles which is covered in fake glitter and glamour.

This is what happens when you support a country who wants to play the best , and don't come with any excuses, all Americans have automatically chosen to support the USA by living in it and paying taxes for it, not only the government is guilty, but every single American is guilty simly for not paying any attantion to what was really happening (now it is to late)...
edit on 19-2-2012 by yougetwhatyoudeserve because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 01:30 AM
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Originally posted by yougetwhatyoudeserve
I can't help it but I love the sight of those home and jobless Americans in tents and eventually it will become more and more untill the whole USA is homeless, and I just can't help it, but I love it !!

This is the best punishment for those who supported a country who starts wars on global scale, a country which supported slavery back in the days, a country which drains the earth of it's resources on a major scale (oil, gas, water, food), a country which pollutes the air like no other and who indoctrinates the rest of the world with propaganda hidden in sitcoms, movies, music, advertisements, educations and which poisened the rest of the world with bad and unhealthy foods and drinks. Not to mention the extremely bad consequences for the rest of the world which are caused by America and Americans to support their flamboyant lifestyles which is covered in fake glitter and glamour.

This is what happens when you support a country who wants to play the best , and don't come with any excuses, all Americans have automatically chosen to support the USA by living in it and paying taxes for it, not only the government is guilty, but every single American is guilty simly for not paying any attantion to what was really happening (now it is to late)...
edit on 19-2-2012 by yougetwhatyoudeserve because: (no reason given)


What a load of ignorant drivel. Must be a black nationalist or some other similarly nescient trash. No matter. Iran will burn, so too will the rest of the enemies of the Republic burn. Your uninstructed mind simply isn't worth correcting.



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 01:56 AM
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reply to post by AmatuerSkyWatcher
 


Well, I'm going to be honest with you. During the seventies, when I was young, we lived in a tent.
I like my memories of that time, and as one poster remarked, it does somewhat free you from materialism in a way. I have a 1,200 sq ft house, and I'm very happy with it. My bed is under a roof, and the toilet is indoors. I'm happy with that. I have enough.
Sometimes a financial crisis will strike a country, and it's the lower income families that get hit first. My dad was a factory worker, and was on strike a lot, and, we ended up in a tent.
I value that time I had with my family, I value that there was a public library for me. I value that necessity sparked my imagination and creativity.

Some of those tent families you saw could be migrant workers. I've seen them as far up as Ohio. They live in tents, because they are just visiting. They come to work, and go back home across the border after their work is done.

I guess it might be best for a person to sit down with those who live in tents and ask them what's up to see why they are living in a tent. I realize it's hard to do when you are across the ocean looking over here, but as a person that's been in the situation you're writing about, it may not be what it seems.



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 04:52 AM
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Originally posted by TheCounselor
reply to post by AmatuerSkyWatcher
 


Well, I'm going to be honest with you. During the seventies, when I was young, we lived in a tent.
I like my memories of that time, and as one poster remarked, it does somewhat free you from materialism in a way. I have a 1,200 sq ft house, and I'm very happy with it. My bed is under a roof, and the toilet is indoors. I'm happy with that. I have enough.
Sometimes a financial crisis will strike a country, and it's the lower income families that get hit first. My dad was a factory worker, and was on strike a lot, and, we ended up in a tent.
I value that time I had with my family, I value that there was a public library for me. I value that necessity sparked my imagination and creativity.

Some of those tent families you saw could be migrant workers. I've seen them as far up as Ohio. They live in tents, because they are just visiting. They come to work, and go back home across the border after their work is done.

I guess it might be best for a person to sit down with those who live in tents and ask them what's up to see why they are living in a tent. I realize it's hard to do when you are across the ocean looking over here, but as a person that's been in the situation you're writing about, it may not be what it seems.


Your story is appreciated, it's honest and brings the much needed human aspect back this thread. People talk about homeless like they are dirty objects, some of us are homeless, only with a home.

My parents were broke when I was a kid, i remember the story of only eating corn for 2 weeks since the most food we could get for 72 cents that I would eat. Another week it was eggs, i was kinda mad. We were crashing on couches and living out of cars, as a child you don't really know what to make of it, you just know you appreciate what you got, and it typically gets shared. Dad would play music on the street and at this soup cafe for tips. He's a great inspiration and a success because of how well his children turned out despite the circumstances.

Here's a clip of the first 10 min of Dark Days, which is a very graphic but interesting look at the subway dwellers of NY and how the city worked with them to relocate, and some are truly trying to clean up and find serious lives
(WARNING: more than likely to contain some profanity, may be hard to watch for others):


Worth finding the full video, gritty true view of how it is in the big city streets.

edit on 20-2-2012 by Aliquandro because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 05:13 AM
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Originally posted by AlreadyGone
May I suggest a history book to put things in perspective? This is not the first time this has happened. If you go back and look at some of the photos from the 1930s, the Great Depression, and the Dust Bowl Era... you will find many photos of disenchanted and disenfranchised Americans living in tents, canopied cities, and wagons and vehicles.


I myself have been there. Poor, destitute, eating out of trash cans, buying dayold stale donuts for 10cents each so I could eat breakfast and lunch, then coming home to a barn, taking a cup of corn meal, some water, a little grease... and frying corn bread on an open fire...for several weeks at a time until I could save some money. Then I had eggs and corn bread. When I finally had saved enough to buy a woodstove to heat and cook on...man, I was rich.

Point it, we all have made mistakes. We all have to pay for those mistakes. These are costly lessons. But this is where you seperate the weak from the strong... the survivor and the prey. Nothing motivates someone to succeed like being cold and hungry.

I took on as many pert time jobs as I could. I grew a garden. I cut wood. I sold potatoes, tomatoes, firewood.... I cut grass, worked bread routes, snack routes, anything to make a legitamate dollar.... and I survived.

Now, as for the folks in the tents.. it really is up to them if they stay in the tents or move on to something better. And that is the main ideal of America... individualism. It is a two edged sword... full of risks but full of potential for success. That is what, I feel, seperates us from the rest of the world. The chance for the individual to succeed or fail. Many of these tent dwellers have no more than the pioneers and settlers that first came to America and moved across it's plains and mountains. Some will fail... some will excell. It is up to the individual to be strong, creative, motivated, and find a way.


Yes there's alot of lessons people learned from the great depression, good point. The stories of Stone Soup and starving people in China still haunt my childhood memories.

On a local scale, communities when funded to a very small degree could feed and retrain many homeless people. I had an idea once that, to a small degree, is getting implemented here: to take unwanted, unused, and overgrown public city land to develop permaculture, and heirloom farming to the homeless who want to learn. The food would go top local food kitchens and food banks. Once the land was producing excess they would be allowed to sell that for profit at local farmer's markets as their own product, they would get shares in the land and farm over time. It could expand over time to include urban chicken and goat and fruit tree cultivation. Its amazing the amount of skills out there people will give out if its for charity, somebody just needs to have the connections and set it all up.

I also encourage looking into your local homeless paper and supporting it, typically they have much less mainstream sources and use small radical journalists and tiny sponsors and advertisers that don't care as much what they write about.



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by korathin

Originally posted by yougetwhatyoudeserve
I can't help it but I love the sight of those home and jobless Americans in tents and eventually it will become more and more untill the whole USA is homeless, and I just can't help it, but I love it !!

This is the best punishment for those who supported a country who starts wars on global scale, a country which supported slavery back in the days, a country which drains the earth of it's resources on a major scale (oil, gas, water, food), a country which pollutes the air like no other and who indoctrinates the rest of the world with propaganda hidden in sitcoms, movies, music, advertisements, educations and which poisened the rest of the world with bad and unhealthy foods and drinks. Not to mention the extremely bad consequences for the rest of the world which are caused by America and Americans to support their flamboyant lifestyles which is covered in fake glitter and glamour.

This is what happens when you support a country who wants to play the best , and don't come with any excuses, all Americans have automatically chosen to support the USA by living in it and paying taxes for it, not only the government is guilty, but every single American is guilty simly for not paying any attantion to what was really happening (now it is to late)...
edit on 19-2-2012 by yougetwhatyoudeserve because: (no reason given)


What a load of ignorant drivel. Must be a black nationalist or some other similarly nescient trash. No matter. Iran will burn, so too will the rest of the enemies of the Republic burn. Your uninstructed mind simply isn't worth correcting.


Im not black and also not a nationalist or a racist, I'm Dutch and maybe that is the reason that I've got some difficulties with writing in English if that is what you mean by : correcting. But I'm anti anti anti USA because it is the biggest pile of crap on this whole planet. And why do you call me ignorant? Do you know what kind of terror, misery and destruction the USA brings to certain country's simply by pumping tons of gas out of the ocean? I bet you don't, and this is just one small example of one of the many egocentric misdeeds of the USA to the world.

So just wait, it won't take long before you will lose your house (if you are American)



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 10:34 AM
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reply to post by lbndhr
 


This is a sad sad reality here in America. I see it firsthand everyday, I live in Colorado Springs, and these tent cities have been all along the river for many years now. Downtown in Acacia Park on any given night there are dozens of homeless people sleeping in sleeping bags on the grass, hiding out from the elements on the stage of the old ampatheatre. The homeless with actual tents which most dont even have camp out all along the river in these tent cities. There were nights this last two winters where wind chills were 30 - 40 degrees below zero, I can not even imagine being in a tent or a sleeping bag trying to just survive the night in these conditions. Sad thing is the river and tents cities run right along the interstate, and yes it's true; The city and police come through every few months or so and clear out the tent cities, leaving these people nowhere to go except for the one small shelter in town. It's despicable, this country is going into poverty all around and the city and police have the nerve to drive the homeless out of the only places they have? it's sad. Im lucky to live on the east side of town, I have lived here for 16 years and do you know how i know how bad the economy is? For 15 years i never ever once saw one homeless person out on the street with a sign on this entire side of town., This past year? I see at least 20 of them a day. And there is no parks, shelters, or tent cities for the homeless to stay over here, so that's saying something. It's a sad sad time.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 10:50 AM
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reply to post by yougetwhatyoudeserve
 


you are one of the most ignorant people I have ever seen on this site, It is 'all American's fault for living in this country and paying their taxes to the government'? are you freaking serious? Did you get to choose where you were born? I dont think so. Yeah, well neither did i. None of us Americans chose to be born here. And believe it or not many of us are happy to of been born here. And i by no means support what America does, as you put it, I personally am 'anti anti anti' American Government. Not American people. That is where your ignorance lies. You say you are dutch, what would you do if your government suddenly started war mongering and causing environmental tadegies, what if big oil took over your country? would you go and overthrow your government single handidly? would you quit paying taxes and lose everything you own? I know you would not. Would you move to another country? Possibly, well guess what? here in the U.S.A another country is not just 100 miles away across some dinky border. If anybody here wants out of the country, most are looking at at least 1000 miles distance move and if they want to go to Europe? much farther, do you know how much it costs to relocate a family, a home? Alot. No body here can afford that right now. So what do we do? Stop paying taxes, and rot in jail. Good advice friend. Go out and assasinate the president and be executed? Protest and be made a fool out of by the media like the Occupy movement? again great advice my freind. I wish i was as enlightened as you. I am all for overthrowing the government and giving power back to the people. I am totally against what this country has become. individual people should not suffer because of the tyranny their government creates. For you to wish that they do, is just plain ignorance. I hope karma comes around and when you lose your home and see how funny it is then? hey just blame that on america too (: good day



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 11:01 AM
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The abandon houses, store fronts, tenement buildings, condominiums (endearingly referred to as abandominums) is shocking here in Palm Beach county Florida.

And the amount of homeless sleeping in parks and under the overpasses is heartbreaking. I don't even think these people can afford tents. Quite a few have pets/dogs and feed their pets before they do themselves or at least, share the little they have. I know. I've talked with them.

I wish someone with a heart, who owns these abandoned buildings will let some of these people get out of the elements and have a roof over their heads. What difference does it make? Their buildings are just sitting there with no interested buyers on the horizon.

I know there's no perfect solution but I realize many of us are one check away from being among the growing population of homeless Americans and it's a very scary scene in the year 2012. It looks more like 1912.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by 0subsZero13
reply to post by yougetwhatyoudeserve
 


you are one of the most ignorant people I have ever seen on this site, It is 'all American's fault for living in this country and paying their taxes to the government'? are you freaking serious? Did you get to choose where you were born? I dont think so. Yeah, well neither did i. None of us Americans chose to be born here. And believe it or not many of us are happy to of been born here.

Just leave the country then, most Americans had enough money, when they had a job, to move out. But instead of leaving the states most choose to stay in the USA by buying or renting a home/appartment...


And i by no means support what America does, as you put it, I personally am 'anti anti anti' American Government. Not American people. That is where your ignorance lies.

I'm against both, you say that the people also don't agree with their government, but they also don't want to loose their stuff and in that way are forced to pay taxes. How egocentric of those people, not really hard-core, only big mouthed.



You say you are dutch, what would you do if your government suddenly started war mongering and causing environmental tadegies, what if big oil took over your country? would you go and overthrow your government single handidly?

Remember that I'm not an American, so I know I'm not superman which means I would not try to overthrow the government, besides the Dutch government is doing fine except for that clown Wilders, but almost nobody takes him seriously (only Americans take him seriously I guess)..


would you quit paying taxes and lose everything you own? I know you would not.

Maybe I would, I've got nothing to loose and I'm not afraid of loosing material things...


Would you move to another country?

Maybe..

well guess what? here in the U.S.A another country is not just 100 miles away across some dinky border. If anybody here wants out of the country, most are looking at at least 1000 miles distance move and if they want to go to Europe? much farther, do you know how much it costs to relocate a family, a home? Alot. No body here can afford that right now. So what do we do?


You should have thinked about that before you bought your home with money which mostly wasn't yours, but hey, back in the days the Mighty USA was doing fine so nobody in the states cared about the future....


Stop paying taxes, and rot in jail. Good advice friend. Go out and assasinate the president and be executed? Protest and be made a fool out of by the media like the Occupy movement? again great advice my freind. I wish i was as enlightened as you. I am all for overthrowing the government and giving power back to the people.

Bladiblabla, nice rant.


I am totally against what this country has become. individual people should not suffer because of the tyranny their government creates.

You still supported your country's hunger for war with the tax dollers remember, because you didn't wan't to loose your possessions. I guess "possessions" are more worth than the millions of dead people around the globe caused by American tyranny.. So don't say that the US citizens are innocent and also a victim, they are just as guilty as everybody else in the US


For you to wish that they do, is just plain ignorance. I hope karma comes around and when you lose your home and see how funny it is then? hey just blame that on america too (: good day

Wishing me bad luck is just more positive karma for me my American war-liking friend hehe..



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 02:17 PM
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We don't have any tent cities up here, but the social net is more tightly woven through family and churches. What we do I have, and I image everywhere else in America has as well, is empty houses for sale. Hundreds upon hundreds of houses on the block, no one buying em.

I am surprised that the homeless haven't chosen to join the 'Occupy a Vacant House' movement. Many of them are owned by the bank, and if they laid low they would likely get to stay for a good amount of time before it was discovered.

If I was in the position, you bet I would take a house.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 10:18 PM
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Originally posted by blamethegreys


If I was in the position, you bet I would take a house.


- So first you buy a house with money you lend from a bank without someone who is forcing you to do, and so the money isn't actually yours...

Next:
- Then you loose your house and possessions because you can't pay your loan anymore....

Result:
And then you will "occupy a house" of someone else (the bank), because you failed in the past...

Sound pretty dumb and egocentric in every single way to me...
edit on 27-2-2012 by yougetwhatyoudeserve because: (no reason given)
edit on 27-2-2012 by yougetwhatyoudeserve because: (no reason given)





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