The Secret of Freemasonry Seen in the Reflection of a Mirror - What do you see?

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
And of course, being a non-American, of what relevance is the U.S. national debt to me? And more importantly, what fault?

It is your fault because you should at the very least not charge us so much for your oil. I am thinking free is a good price, otherwise you Canadian Masons are just driving up the debt.

Originally posted by starseedflower
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

But WHO is God??? And I bet we all including Enoch, Jesus, the Freemasons, you and me, yes even Atheists have descriptions appropriate to our believes and first or second hand experiences of WHAT he is, still the question hangs right there above our heads, or else we would not be here to have conversation.

We, being frail mortal creatures of limited understanding are incapable of properly describing that which is so far beyond our understanding just as my budgie can't elucidate on nuclear physics. We as mortals have the one advantage of recognising (when we so choose) our limitations in that regard and hopefully acting with humility.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
And of course, being a non-American, of what relevance is the U.S. national debt to me? And more importantly, what fault?

It is your fault because you should at the very least not charge us so much for your oil. I am thinking free is a good price, otherwise you Canadian Masons are just driving up the debt.

Blame OPEC. I'll tell you what on the "free" notion. You provide free water to Alberta so that they can continue fracking with something while continuing to have drinking water and they may consider it. That's the shortcoming in the tar sands equation.

However, that's drifting a little OT.

Fitz

Originally posted by starseedflower
I do apologize guys should I have insulted somebody here with my always questioning, agnostic, I know that I know nothing - attitude.

My God; humility on ATS! I'm impressed!

Well done, young son! May more follow your path

Fitz

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


You Sir are the third person in my life (the other two always called me little brother), though I am a daughter Sir.

Originally posted by starseedflower
reply to post by Fitzgibbon

 

You Sir are the third person in my life (the other two always called me little brother), though I am a daughter Sir.

My apologies. Humility among the male gender is so rare that it should have in and of itself made me assume yours. My bad (though hope springs eternal).

Fitz

And now I am going to read some Greek Myths to my son and ...I' ll be back soon guys, happy food for thought till then.

reply to post by getreadyalready

God cannot be described in human terms, so there is no point in asking. We go wrong the minute we try to describe God. That is precisely the reason so many religions frown upon creating an image of god, or even saying the name of their god. The minute we give a god some shape, or form, or definition, we simultaneously limit the god in some ways, and therefore our portrayal is immediately inaccurate and possibly even offensive.

Rumi has a good answer for this?

At night there is no light, and colors are not seen;
Hence we know what light is by its opposite, darkness.
At night no colors are visible, for light is lacking.
How can color be the attribute of dark blackness?
Looking on light is the same as looking on colors...

...The opposite of light shows what is light,
Hence colors too are known by their opposite.
God created pain and grief for this purpose,
To wit, to manifest happiness by its opposites. 12
Hidden things are manifested by their opposites;
But, as God has no opposite. He remains hidden.
God's light has no opposite in the range of creation
Whereby it may be manifested to view.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


I suppose it comes down to what form of "witch craft" you are comparing to..

Because if you are comparing it to the most common of "witch craft" in the US, that'd be Wiccan, which if I'm not mistaken, was founded by Freemasons. So there certainly would be some connection that would mirror eachother.

I feel sorry for your view of Christianity.. for all the verses you forget a good one:

Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye?

You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye
Matthew 7.1-5

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by SuperiorEd
Works do not save the soul.

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Revelation 20:12

Faith apart from works is dead. I agree. The first are last and the last are first. But, there is something we can do to advocate our case. What you are speaking of is a trial. God is the judge. We are the witness. The accuser is Satan. The advocate is Jesus. Who will the advocate clear of all charges? For one thing, God is Love. Love keeps no record of wrongs. If we are in the name of the Lord, we are represented by his character and not ours. If we take the name in vain, we take the name but not the character. Both need to be present.

he ever liveth to make intercession, Heb. 7:25
to appear in the presence of God for us, Heb. 9:24
advocate with the Father, Jesus, 1 Jn. 2:1
he shall make intercession for all, 2 Ne. 2:9
giving the Son power to make intercession, Mosiah 15:8
he advocateth the cause of the children of men, Moro. 7:28
I am … your advocate with the Father, D&C 29:5 (D&C 32:3; D&C 45:3; D&C 62:1; D&C 110:4).
have I pleaded before the Father for them, D&C 38:4

LINK This is even from the LDS church. Aren't they Masons?

reply to post by Fitzgibbon

In and of themselves, no they don't. Charitable works done for their own sake with no expectation of acknowledgement are of the highest order. Ultimately, one's faith alone should be what propels good works to be done. However, selflessness doesn't come easily to all. If membership and a moral reminder from a second source accomplish what should've happened for one's central faith alone, is that really cause to gainsay the second source?

Not at all. The second source is sound apart from ritual. What is the root of the problem? Only the ritual and association with witchcraft. That's it. If men seek the authority of other men, tyranny and corruption will result. If they seek the authority of a fallen spirit, the same results. If we seek the authority from God, then love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control result. Against such things there is no law.

Which fruit has Masonry produced overall? Where is the world today after the Masons have applied their craft? 15 trillion in debt and Tyranny coming as a certainty. Warbuck's profit from war is a prime reminder. Orphan Annie might have a parent working to provide if we had invested the warbucks into feeding the sheep.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

I suppose it comes down to what form of "witch craft" you are comparing to..

Because if you are comparing it to the most common of "witch craft" in the US, that'd be Wiccan, which if I'm not mistaken, was founded by Freemasons. So there certainly would be some connection that would mirror eachother.

I feel sorry for your view of Christianity.. for all the verses you forget a good one:

Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye?

You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye
Matthew 7.1-5

I do see your point. There is only one righteous judge. He came to Earth and reminded us of the same message I reflect. Use an equal measure and return a higher context. This is how we reveal the truth. I am all for this process so I can grow. If I have erred in any way, reveal it from my words. I am a sinner just like the rest. I also have a light to shine in a dark place. We are all charged with acknowledging both to others.

1Cor. 6:2-3 Do you not know that the saints [the saved; Christians] will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!

Prov. 3:21 My son, preserve sound judgment and discernment, do not let them out of your sight;

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Jer. 22:3 Thus saith the LORD; Execute ye judgment and righteousness...

Phil. 1:10 so that you may be able to discern [judge] what is best and may be pure and blameless until the day of Christ...

Phil. 1:7 It is right for me to feel this way about all of you [judge you]...

reply to post by SuperiorEd

I also have a light to shine in a dark place.

Most of the time it's best to keep your light to yourself. Everyone has their own methods of dealing with the World and answering their own unique questions and fulfilling their souls in which ever ways it needs fulfilling. No two Humans are exactly the same, and religion, created by Man for Man, is but a tool to use to come to an end which will fulfill you. Others, like myself, see nothing in religion and it's organization or execution that in any way entice me spiritually. I find people attitudes of pushing their beliefs onto others because "they have a light to shine in dark places" to be arrogant on so many levels I find it disturbing. It is the antithesis of spirituality, it's a form of self-righteous spiritual superiority. "My beliefs are better than your own".

Some people are witches. Some think their warlocks. Some are Jews, or Buddhist, or Muslims or Catholics. Some belong to fraternities like Masonry, some get their spirituality from reading texts or watching a preacher on TV, or self meditation. YOU have no right to convert anyone. YOU have no right to say what is and what is not right in the eyes of God. YOU have no right to define God, to presume Gods intentions, or to assume God's will. YOU have no right to judge another persons actions less they directly come into conflict with the well-being of another Human-being. I'm happy your so comfortable with your religious views and everything.. more power to you, but I would urge you to keep it to your self, because by claiming spiritual superiority over those you view as less than yourself you become the very opposite of that which you are trying to be. You'll find that your light illuminates what you point it at, but leaves you in darkness.

reply to post by SuperiorEd

They were suppressing the truth behind ritual and greed. They used their office of leadership to take instead of give.

Whoa.
Wait.
What now? You mean....the CHRISTIANS, right? The Catholics first, then all the others who claim to have the secrets. What do you call incense and candles and low lights and soul-stirring music and tithing and all that 'mystical stuff'?
Christianity? Yep, you got that right.
"Only those who are clergy have authority to preach from the Bible or learn Latin."
"Only those who have received special permission from Rome (the Pope or his underlings) can be admitted to the clergy. Lay persons are not allowed to know the secrets or read the book."

And besides, that video on 'Witchcraft' is a bunch of bunk!!
I was a student, enrolled under a master, took the lessons, and am indoctrinated and took the Wiccan Rede to heart. I am also a baptized, confirmed Christian.
News flash, Ed: The two are not incompatible. they are complimentary.

The former does not require joining a 'cult', it can be practiced independently and freely.
"An it harm none, do as you will."

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

They were suppressing the truth behind ritual and greed. They used their office of leadership to take instead of give.

Whoa.
Wait.
What now? You mean....the CHRISTIANS, right? The Catholics first, then all the others who claim to have the secrets. What do you call incense and candles and low lights and soul-stirring music and tithing and all that 'mystical stuff'?
Christianity? Yep, you got that right.
"Only those who are clergy have authority to preach from the Bible or learn Latin."
"Only those who have received special permission from Rome (the Pope or his underlings) can be admitted to the clergy. Lay persons are not allowed to know the secrets or read the book."

And besides, that video on 'Witchcraft' is a bunch of bunk!!
I was a student, enrolled under a master, took the lessons, and am indoctrinated and took the Wiccan Rede to heart. I am also a baptized, confirmed Christian.
News flash, Ed: The two are not incompatible. they are complimentary.

The former does not require joining a 'cult', it can be practiced independently and freely.
"An it harm none, do as you will."

You are confusing the religion, both Exoteric and Esoteric, for the Bible. I am speaking of God's Word and Living Word in Christ. When I refer to the Church leadership in Rome, we are now speaking of a mixture of religion and governance by private association. The Church is not tasked with the job of ruling mankind, but serving it. If a Christian wants to serve in public office, there is no reason to avoid it. On the other hand, If the Baptist Church wants to place itself as the ruling power of the world, a problem arises. Rome is the power of private associations over the public trust. Government, in its truest form, is represented by the will of the people governed by common agreement for the betterment of the whole. Ideally, this would ultimately reflect God's will of giving and not taking. When private associations take over rule, tyranny results.

The root of evil is not the Craft, or a ritual, or religion (all these things are tools), it is Man himself, because somebody that does not know himself well enough is going to make bad decisions based on prejudice, lacking logic, empathy, responsibility and every single decision we make throughout life is going to affect fellow men depending on the circle of influence.
When I previously asked WHO is God, I was waiting for somebody to question WHO is Man since we all are One reflection or fragment of God living on a nutshell we call our planet travelling through the vast Universe according to laws we still need to fully understand and our bodies being vast universes for particles we start to gasp the precise meaning of.
I am searching for decades now, reading and educating myself, though the best moments are always inspirational active moments, when I decide to stand up and speak for people in need, when I actively decide to act for the good of everybody involved, when I help people I do not know.

reply to post by SuperiorEd

You are confusing the religion, both Exoteric and Esoteric, for the Bible. I am speaking of God's Word and Living Word in Christ.

Isn't that an extremely limited view? Christ's word comes directly from the Bible, and the Bible has been explicitly controlled by the Church, so they are basically one and the same. Plus, Christ was only a major player in a single religion, and there are many other religious figures with equally important messages and accomplishments.

Once you mention God's Word, and Christ, in the same sentence, you are limiting God's reach, alienating the majority of the world's religious views, and blockading yourself from any true understanding or knowing of God. You have fallen victim to the same thought-process you condemn in others.

I'm sorry, but Christ is not the "only" way to the Father as the church would have you believe. He was a wonderful teacher, and he is a great religious icon, but there are infinite ways to reach the Father, and Christ is only 1 of many.

reply to post by wildtimes

And besides, that video on 'Witchcraft' is a bunch of bunk!!
I was a student, enrolled under a master, took the lessons, and am indoctrinated and took the Wiccan Rede to heart. I am also a baptized, confirmed Christian.
News flash, Ed: The two are not incompatible. they are complimentary.

The former does not require joining a 'cult', it can be practiced independently and freely.
"An it harm none, do as you will."

Light and darkness are separated by God. Give it a go, but you will find a problem: One spirit will leave and the other will stay. Deny one and choose the other. One choice leads to more life. The other leads to suffering debt. Taking reward will always lead to suffering. Suffering first will lead to reward. There are no exceptions. Follow the reward by direction and you can confirm the choice as correct or in error.

Originally posted by starseedflower
The root of evil is not the Craft, or a ritual, or religion (all these things are tools), it is Man himself, because somebody that does not know himself well enough is going to make bad decisions based on prejudice, lacking logic, empathy, responsibility and every single decision we make throughout life is going to affect fellow men depending on the circle of influence.
When I previously asked WHO is God, I was waiting for somebody to question WHO is Man since we all are One reflection or fragment of God living on a nutshell we call our planet travelling through the vast Universe according to laws we still need to fully understand and our bodies being vast universes for particles we start to gasp the precise meaning of.
I am searching for decades now, reading and educating myself, though the best moments are always inspirational active moments, when I decide to stand up and speak for people in need, when I actively decide to act for the good of everybody involved, when I help people I do not know.

An honest context. Thank you. What you are saying is very close to what I see in all of this. We are given a kingdom of our own to rule. The body is precisely a kingdom of trillions of cells. Above this kingdom, there are many more moving around us, each influencing our own path. The question is an easy one. Do we give this rule away? Do we allow this rule to be ruled by another? What are the best practices for this rule we possess?

The answer is simple for me. I can only speak for myself by context to what I know. Which part do we possess? We possess the thought and the will to move. That's it. We don't make our hair grow, our digestive track function, the moon full or the sun shine. Ritual magic and theurgy serve a specific purpose that we would be best to avoid. God serves a purpose to us that we must embrace. How do we see the difference?

One is open and offered as a gift. The other is covert and taken as influence. One is open to us and the other is opened by us. One offers us the opportunity to give and the other to take. One gives us the proper will to rule. The other takes our rule by proxy.

There are two spirits. God says give. The other says take.

Originally posted by SuperiorEd
What do you see if you look in the mirror? Yourself. What are you seeing? Check again:

edit on 13-2-2012 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

OK. I looked in the mirror. I saw something that the world doesn't want two of. Trust me.

I used to add content to a certain masonic website ( Don't ask me which one because I won't tell you) a few years back and had the opportunity to talk with some of the members both on a business and personal level. What I'm hearing here of the members who are Masons pretty much "mirrors" what I also have heard from the members I talked to. There is nothing sinister about these guys. The only thing sinister I see is that you think if an organization has secrets, then they're out to rule the world or something. That's a pretty dangerous mindset to be in if you ask me.