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The Secret of Freemasonry Seen in the Reflection of a Mirror - What do you see?

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posted on Feb, 19 2012 @ 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Conspirus
Only reason I brought up FDR putting it on the dollar is because he was not a Christian...


Roosevelt was an Episcopalian, which most certainly made his a Christian.


To be honest, the fact that Mrs. Clinton held seances in the white house and attempted to communicate with Eleanor Roosevelt is really concerning.



Because other than that, any staunch instance where one might remotely call it as being a Christian symbol is on a painting whose author isn’t even proven to be Christian...


So what religion do you postulate Contormo to be if he is not Christian?


Speaking of the quality of sources/posts the fact that you are calling him Contormo really speaks to the quality of your as well. If you are referring to Pontormo and his work "Supper at Emmaus" then you should do more research. Pontormo completed this painting in 1525, however, the eye of providence was not part if his original work. The eye was added sometime later by an unknown artist. Pontormo did not paint the eye in the painting. I am a little disappointed by your post because the following freemasonry site even has this info.


freemasonry.bcy.ca...



OR in churches/cathedrals that can either be traced back to sacred geometry architecture or to the Vatican‘s history.


Which does not negate their relevance as all cathedrals are built using geometery and Roman Catholocism was and is the largest denomination of Christianity. The symbol was and is used by Christians to denote the Trinity.


Even if ancient cathedrals have the eye incorporated into their structure it certainly doesn't mean Christians use the symbol today. You will not find churches built in the last 100-150 years that use the symbol. You are incorrect that it is still a Christian symbol. Knowing it is from the eye of horus Christians should not use this symbol. Then again not many people know it is derived from the eye of horus.




posted on Feb, 19 2012 @ 11:50 PM
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Originally posted by Kyobosha
But the fact that services are non denominational and do not call out the supreme being by name makes it very possible that the deity for a lodge is Satan or lucifer.
Ah, but YOU know God's real name? What is it, if you don't mind my asking? I know Enoch wrote it on a plaque somewhere, but it got buried in a vault... Didn't realize you had found it. Please enlighten the rest of the world!



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 07:44 AM
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Originally posted by Kyobosha
To be honest, the fact that Mrs. Clinton held seances in the white house and attempted to communicate with Eleanor Roosevelt is really concerning.


The relevance of this to Franklin Roosevelt's religious denomination is?


Speaking of the quality of sources/posts the fact that you are calling him Contormo really speaks to the quality of your as well.


My mistake on mis-typing his name. As I stated earlier, there is an extensive thread on this forum where we discussed Pontormo, his painting and the usage of the all seeing eye, with links and sources.


If you are referring to Pontormo and his work "Supper at Emmaus" then you should do more research. Pontormo completed this painting in 1525, however, the eye of providence was not part if his original work. The eye was added sometime later by an unknown artist. Pontormo did not paint the eye in the painting.


I am aware many believe the eye was added at a latter date (late 16th/early 17th century). Regardless, the imagery was used to represent the Eye of God on a painting which can not be construed as anything but Christian. It is also one of the first known and earliest usages.



Even if ancient cathedrals have the eye incorporated into their structure it certainly doesn't mean Christians use the symbol today. You will not find churches built in the last 100-150 years that use the symbol.


If you are going to criticise my posts because of a typo what are you going to do about your own for making blanket statements that two minutes on Google will disprove?

Utenos Dievo Apvaizdos was built in 2005 and prominently displays the Eye of Providence.


You are incorrect that it is still a Christian symbol.


Am I now?


Knowing it is from the eye of horus Christians should not use this symbol.


Tell that to the parishoners of Utenos Dievo Apvaizdos.


Then again not many people know it is derived from the eye of horus.


And not many people really care because its usage in a church do not denote Horus but the Holy Trinity.




edit on 20-2-2012 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer.



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Kyobosha

Knowing it is from the eye of horus Christians should not use this symbol.


Tell that to the parishoners of Utenos Dievo Apvaizdos.


And someone should've told the parishioners of Santa Maria Maddalena in Venice too. And even over the front entrance for good measure!


Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

edit on 20-2-2012 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer.


Be nice!


Fitz
edit on 20-2-2012 by Fitzgibbon because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 11:18 PM
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reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 

Venice is beautiful. I loved every minute there, but Italy in general has stuning architecture (go figure) and rich symbolism.



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Conspirus
 


I suppose the conversation is pointless, because your most basic understanding of Freemasonry is already flawed, and you have ignored the Freemasons attempting to correct it.


Freemasonry is NOT a pyramid structure, and there are only 3 levels to Masonry and pretty much every Mason co-exists on the 3rd level. Time spent in any authority position, or "chair," is one year, by an election process, and there is no campaigning allowed.


Aside from your little paragraph, who else actually "attempted to correct it" other than just telling me I'm wrong? My understanding of the Freemasonry structure is essentially the same as what Kyobosha stated on page 21, to which one of you have already stated as being correct.



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 11:25 PM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
Who is "they?"


Those who know more than you in your organization.


What makes you think there are any Masons above his level? The majority of the Masons you are corresponding with on here are Past Masters, 32nd Degree Scottish Rite Masons, and even Grand Officers in their respective states. KS has more titles than he could probably list in a single post! JoshNorton has just about every book Albert Pike ever wrote, and has the majority of them memorized!

Any masons above whose level?

I think you are misreading my post but that’s alright, I tend to be sarcastic many times and that was one of those times - I KNOW there are high levels here on ATS, that was the point of the post you‘re quoting me in.
Alright then my good fellow then why do they state things that are contrary to what great masons said in the past such as Albert Pike or Manley P Hall?


You are assuming they are "shrimps" because they are nice, and direct, and knowledgeable?

Nope, who I am referring to as shrimps are those in freemasonry in the lower degrees who are led to think they know a lot but really don’t. Didn’t one of your revered freemasons say to bring up the lower degrees making them think they know everything?



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 11:25 PM
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Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Conspirus
 

I did read your posts and responded accordingly.

Hmm, perhaps you need glasses then
jk.



Freemasonry can be traced back to the ancient mystery religion of Babylon and Egypt

According to some, but it is not an established fact. It is an assumption only as as much of this post.

“Freemasonry, successor of the Mysteries, still follows the ancient manner of teachings.  Her ceremonies are like the ancient  mystic shows - not the reading of an essay, but the opening of a  problem requiring research and explanation. “

“A language of hieroglyphics was adapted to the celebrations  of the Sacred Mysteries of ancient Egypt, unknown to any but  those who had received the Highest Degree.  And to them  ultimately were confined the learning, the morality and the  political power of every people among which the mysteries were  practiced.”

masonicworld.com...



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 11:25 PM
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Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Conspirus
 

Where in Masonic lore do we say that Solomon went against God's wishes?

“The pillars of King Solomon's Temple, and in fact that entire group
of structures, were the work of Phoenician artists, according to the
Biblical account. From other sources we gather that these same
designers and craftsmen, initiated Dionysiac architects, were
responsible for the magnificent palaces and temples at Byblos, the
cultural and esthetic center of ancient Phoenicia.”

Now, before the Phoenicians were known by that name, they were called the Canaanites. AND the fact that they were Dionysian architects mark them as pagans. The Israelites were commanded to have nothing to do with the Canaanites, yet they hired the architects from that very group to build GOD’S temple?

“Josephus stated that the
Temple was of Grecian style which implies entablature and
consequently a flat roof, although he had the cart before the horse,
since Greek architecture was derived from Phoenician, not the
Reverse.”

So here we have pre-Grecian style design of the Temple, as in that verse I stated somewhere in my past post, GOD doesn’t see it honorable when things that are done to honor other gods are done for Him.

There is even more reason to believe that perhaps these architects were involved in some kind of brotherhood in which Solomon became involved in as well, as he was calling them brother without any blood relation AND after being told not to have anything to do with them.

So does your lore STATE verbatim “Solomon went against God’s wishes in building His temple”? No. Why would it when they respect the Hirams greatly? But if you know your Bible well Solomon was disobeying by asking them to build the temple because they were Canaanites.

Quotes taken from: masonicworld.com...



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 11:29 PM
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Originally posted by KSigMason
You really don't realize how we're organized. 30+? Well, I'm a 32 degree so I guess I fit in that category of 30+. But there is more to Masonry than just the Scottish Rite. There are various appendant bodies. I'm also a Templar and a member of the Eastern Star. There is no recognized body that goes up to 90, but you are thinking of the Rite of Memphis and Mizraim.

I don’t eh? Now how is that my good man, you could say how in the same post you know
; I understand there are many many other branches, but was it not Albert Pike himself who said all of freemasonry runs on the same basic premises? The same basic idea?


I have never lied on this forum about my experiences and since you have no actual concept of our structures then you really don't know what I am.

Your experiences? Perhaps there is no need to lie about such , but what about what you know on your 32nd degree status that the lowers don‘t know about? Why the division of the degrees if everyone is essentially the same, in your own words? To be honest, I don’t really care to know about what you are man…you can tell me all about it if you want, I’ll extend that much



Pike and Hall were both men and had their opinion. They are or were not the only ones to ever write a book about Freemasonry. William Schnoebelen also says the following about hismelf:

I see from websites such as Masonic info.com how you all like to list your “enemies” and talk about them as if they are all hypocritical liars; this shows quite easily how, unless that source is embracing freemasonry, they are all garbage in your minds no matter how intelligent they are, how much research they have acquired over many years on the subject, or how legitimate they are - a very one-sided, biased viewpoint. And this is a lot coming from one who started out being neutral on the entirety of freemasonry like me man. And that is one extensive list on that website there, most of the descriptions on that site of some of those persons who I have researched myself, are close to angry ranting, and, from their descriptions exclude even a heads up on what really happened to that person - descriptions to purposely make whoever they’re talking about to sound less credible.

Think about it dude. I see this is a common escape route for many Masonic members here - the “oh your source is bogus” route. Judging from how controversial freemasonry is, 99% of those who have opinions on it will be on one side or the other - this being the case, unless a source is a Masonic source you all favor in your minds the rest are just blowing hot air.

I encourage you to do some more open-minded research, and explore some of what those who your organization claim as hypocrites have been through and have to say before you brush them off as nothing based off of YOUR organization‘s websites or someone‘s say so.


Bill is a con artist.

Ok, like I told whoever else it is here that said the same thing as you, there is nothing wrong with that timeline - he can be many of those things with no conflict. The fact that you all think it’s wrong shows you haven’t really done as much research into all of this as I was getting the impression you had
haha jk, I know you haven’t actually, it‘s quite obvious.

Pardon any curtness if any detected in this post to you - this attitude of yours is not very catchy at all.



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 11:30 PM
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Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by Conspirus
With a human being there’s an enormous amount of energy released.” Bill Schnoebelen


Well there's a trustworthy source!


As soon as Bill's name came up, the die was cast on the 'quality' of your posts.

Fitz


Here it is again, you guys crack me up sometimes


Why man? Because he’s on the “nono/hate” list on your websites, whose description’s written by a dude who‘s near ranting? And think, wouldn’t he be hated naturally if he‘s saying stuff like that against your organization, as the rest of the other sources who have things to say against freemasonry after their experiences with it?

Die was cast on the quality of my posts huh? Cheap way to do away with the rest of my posts man
the great “evidence” on Bill is convincing, entirely (sarcasm)
if that’s you all you have as evidence… I’m speechless.



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 11:32 PM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Conspirus
Worldwide Evil and Misery: The Legacy of the 13 Satanic Bloodlines
I have independent confirmation that Springmeier's book is full of lies. I've even caught a handful myself. His book is useless as a source.

Is that right? Care to give some examples?
Which handful of lies? Did an important freemason tell that to you, and if not, who are you talking about with this important independent confirmation? Logically, why would he say that to you? I know you think you’re pretty high up, but to me as a former neutralist on freemasonry most of what you say means nothing to me after all the research I have done on this. Your claim that his books are useless sources are as ridiculous as some of the other things I remember you saying



Either way, that book is mainly written by de Ruiter (and a few more authors actually), a guy fluent in 7 different languages thus compiling information from other countries on their history of secret societies and freemasonry - a book littered with citation of 500+, a book based on eyewitnesses, most of whom either have been killed or were tortured for spilling the beans on the matter. He used Springmeier as a source due to his extensive knowledge on the family ties of the Illuminati, of which I have researched further myself and see no contradiction yet. If you haven’t read it yourself you cast your own self in a negative light by coming at me with your above statement.



Schnoebelen discredits himself, as others have mentioned.

How, by that little chart? I love how people try to dive in so hard to nitpick at things. OK, there is nothing wrong with that timeline, he could be all those things at the same time - it’s not that hard man. The becoming saved part overlapping a little….MIGHT worry me, however, if he was starting to come to that conclusion during his end times with being a Satanist, then there would be an overlap no problem. Just as the church is full of hypocrites who do one thing at church yet do the polar opposite on their free time, if one has no conviction he can be all of those things with no issue. Notice he dropped them all after he became a born again Christian. As for the Satanic line overlapping, those who have been involved deeply with the occult have a rough time getting out of it, as harassments and attempts on their lives are the norm.

Tell me where is the problem with this timeline?

MANY Satanists are two-faced, the yin and yang, much like those in charge at the tip top of your society now. Not just Freemasons lay the hate on him, Wiccans claim he is a bag of lies as well, of which the quotes they site of him saying are not lies at all.

Apart from being a Born Again Christian, ALL those other things you can do at the same time no problem. The only way I’d see a problem in this is if he were claiming to be a born again Christian yet still doing most of those things. His record’s been clear since then as well.


I don't know the Carlisle piece, but it seems unlikely.

I’m sure to you it would
is he in the ‘hate’ list too? Listen man, if you are so sure about yourself and your organization then you wouldn’t be afraid to dive into the information they have to the fullest instead of just grazing around for stuff YOU don’t like or brushing them aside just cuz your organization doesn‘t like them or give them a thumbs down.



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 11:32 PM
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Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
However, if the quality of these other 'sources' have been as diligent investigated as the investigation has been with Bill Schnoebelen, then these other 'sources' are as worthless. Given Schnoebelen's past of claiming to be many controversial things in a relatively short span of time (some of them diametrically opposed to each other at the same time), does it not cross your mind that maybe just maybe he's a religious carny preaching whatever the choir wants to hear?

Is that right man? SHOW me how these other sources are worthless then

AGAIN, he can be all of those things at the same time. Your level of ignorance on this matter is shocking. NONE of those are opposed to each other except being a born again Christian.

Naw, often times the ones that get a lot of flack from multiple orginizations actually have valuable information, as they wouldn’t be cast in such a negative light otherwise. Just as
Jesus was called a liar and a drunk.


If Schnoebelen claimed the sun was shining, I'd doublecheck that

So is being condescending a moral trait of freemasonry as well?



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 11:34 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Roosevelt was an Episcopalian, which most certainly made his a Christian.

Yeah, so what? I could care less of what his official denomination is. How many politicians are honest men? Plus, furthering on what Kyobosha said, if he were a true Christian why would he marry a woman who participates in seances?



Considering the motto did not appear on paper currency until 1957 I do not see the relevance to Roosevelt.

There IS no relevance to Roosevelt with that statement, good job
now if you could tell me what it was relevant to, I just might give you a star instead of just your usual buddies goin around givin you some regardless of what you say.


So what religion do you postulate Contormo to be if he is not Christian?

Who knows, probably something similar to what Leonardo Da Vinci was. Just because they were painting scenes from the Bible or Jesus don’t make them Christian man, you know that right?


Which does not negate their relevance as all cathedrals are built using geometery and Roman Catholocism was and is the largest denomination of Christianity. The symbol was and is used by Christians to denote the Trinity.

Notice I said >sacred< geometry? And yes, you are correct
and yes it would negate their relevance. I wouldn’t call Roman Catholocism Christian anymore man, if it ever was. What of that scuffle would I have called biblical Christian? Likely the Protestants. Either way, here’s a quote for you:

“We should remind ourselves again that the Roman Catholic Church, with its elaborate ceremonies, was once the main support of Freemasonry and the ceremonies connected with that order.  All of the ceremonies of the Christian Church and of Freemasonry contain overtones of the ancient Mystery Religions.”

masonicworld.com...

Note by Christian Church they refer to mainly the Roman Catholic Church, much like you consider Roman Catholics as being Christian. No wonder the Eye of Horus is littered all over the buildings, eh?


And? What is the relevance?

Dude, nice section to quote me, how bout you quote the rest of it? Furthermore it’s like you don’t even read my entire post, the relevance was in my last post, if you don’t get it then well, too bad, ain't got the patience for it right now. How Enochwasright has as much patience with you guys as he does is beyond me. Pardon any curtness, just blowin off some steam before I continue.



How about citing some examples.

You’re a freemason, you SHOULD know all about this, but do you?

A language of hieroglyphics was adapted to the celebrations  of the Sacred Mysteries of ancient Egypt, unknown to any but  those who had received the Highest Degree.  And to them  ultimately were confined the learning, the morality and the  political power of every people among which the mysteries were  practiced.  So effectually was the knowledge of the hieroglyphics  of the highest degrees hidden from all but a favored few, that in  process of the time their meaning was entirely lost, and none  could interpret them.”

“The more important Masonic symbols are very ancient, and  their true meanings can only be found by tracing them back into  the past.  This will be found to be particularly the case with the  Third degree; its true meaning can only be realized by the study  of similar rites which appear to go far back into the history of  our race. “

masonicworld.com...



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 11:36 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
It is used much more than 'once or twice' so stop deflecting.

Oh yeah? By other artists just like ‘Contormo’? Sorry dude, patience isn’t one of my strong points by far
Deflecting? Hardly!


It is used much more than 'once or twice' so stop deflecting. And again, just because you have an issue with the Roman Catholic Church does not diminsh the fact that it was and is used as a Christian symbol. The usage of an eye in a triangle does not date back to Egypt and can be traced to Renaissance artists who used it to depict the Trinity and the Eye of God (which is mentioned in Psalms 33:18).

That matters not if that eye is the modern depiction of the Eye of Horus. Renaissance artists huh? There’s your problem
most have thought that the Renaissance was a Christian phenomenon, but some research may indicate otherwise; also, how bout you go do your research into your societies symbols and don’t stop at the Renaissance or you cut the history in half at least.


If you have evidence of this iconography (eye in a triangle) dating to before the Renaissance then please post it.




“An equilateral triangle with the monotheistic symbol of the Deity within symbolizes: the triangle--Heaven, The circle within--the Deity, reading the Deity, the Infinite, dwells in Heaven, Heaven is His abode.
An equilateral triangle with an eye within symbolizes the Deity looking out from heaven. In Egypt it was changed to the all seeing Eye of Osiris looking down from heaven. These two symbols are found in all ancient writings. Rather, they appear in many writings and among all people.”

www.sacred-texts.com...



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 11:36 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
That is your personal interpretation and not what the allegory in the scriptures is conveying. "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid" is pretty clear in its implication. As Heaven and Earth, as far as I can tell, did not pass away in Jesus' time the smallest part of the letter of the Law was not made invalid (of fulfilled as you seem to think).

Alright man, whatever you say. Just learn greek sometime and read it yourself then eh? There are plenty of theologians who have no contradiction with my interpretation, in fact I confirmed it from them; go look around instead of posting your own wisdom as if it’s the only truth, or at least before saying something is my personal interpretation. Your arrogance is highly irritating.

executableoutlines.com...

This is one of many thorough examples. It even address what you brought up below.

Luke 14 (FNT)
44 So he said to them: these are my words which I spoke to you while yet being with you, because it is necessary all the things written in the law of Moses and the prophets and the psalms concerning me be fulfilled.


"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid" is pretty clear in its implication. As Heaven and Earth, as far as I can tell, did not pass away in Jesus' time the smallest part of the letter of the Law was not made invalid (of fulfilled as you seem to think).

By this verse Jesus is saying that you should still try to follow the law, but SALVATION BY WORKS is no longer necessary nor will it work. When he preached this, the old law was still in effect, later the law of Christ takes over.

www.edgewoodcoc.org...



Yes, they were hypocrites as the practiced the Law but did not follow the Law. Jesus was admonishing them not to be hypocrites and practice the Law while also adhering to the Law. Jesus was a Jew and therefore would have followed Mosaic Law.

How did they practice the Law but not follow the Law? How are they not the same thing in your mind? Assuming what you just said makes sense, why do you think he got so much flack from the Pharisees? Remember the instance where they were railing on him because he “did work” on the Sabbath?



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 11:36 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Christians like to pick and choose between the Biblical Laws and apply the ones that fit their lifestyle the best. As an example, Paul, in Galatians, admonishes that anyone who is circumcised will not gain entry into Heaven. Most males in the United States are circumcised and being that the predominate religion here is Christianity, most males, according to the New Testament are going to Hell. Pack your SPF 1,000,000 and say hello to your foreskin when you see it.

Hahaha! You CAN be hilarious
why can't you post like that all the time?
Don’t you pick and choose which verses you like as well? (Note this should not be done by you, me or whoever claims to be a Christian.) But anyways, did you even read the WHOLE passage in Galatians? If not, I would encourage you to read it again. If you read the whole thing instead of pick verses you will find that your comment about circumcision and Heaven is way off.

As allegorical you like to be, you fail here. Being circumcised is physical symbolism that you are following the law, but the action itself doesn’t save you especially after Jesus‘ death and resurrection - so what Paul is stating here is likely that old actions of the law which used to save your soul will do so no longer, like I was stating earlier.

"For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter [of the law]; whose praise is not from men but from God." Romans 2:28-29

"Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin." Romans 3:19

"Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. ... Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law." Romans 3:31

"For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect, because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression. Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed...." Romans 4:13-16

Full article: www.crossroad.to...



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 11:36 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Remember that generally to be accepted as into the fraternity you need to believe in a supreme being. However, who that supreme being is can be interpereted by the member in any way. In other words, the supreme being could be God or Satan to that person, it just depends who they consider supreme.

“I will be like the Most High.”
Even if he’s not a supreme being in any way, he likes to pretend to be. Thus those that worship him call him Lucifer, not Satan.



If I somehow became aware that a petitioning member believed that the Biblical Satan was their 'supreme being' I would not vote in favor of their membership based on the fact that the Biblical Satan is subordinate to God.

Glad to hear that coming from you, but what about what Albert Pike said about freemasonry as a whole being a Luciferian doctrine?



posted on Feb, 21 2012 @ 12:45 AM
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Originally posted by Conspirus

Originally posted by JoshNorton
I have independent confirmation that Springmeier's book is full of lies. I've even caught a handful myself. His book is useless as a source.

Is that right? Care to give some examples?
Certainly, if it will placate you at all. (Somehow I suspect it won't…)


Ronald Reagan and Walt Disney were good friends and both cut from the same die in many ways. Both men were high ranking Freemasons, both came from socialist backgrounds (Ronald’s mother was Eleanor Roosevelt’s best friend, & Walt’s Dad was a socialist leader), both were paid FBI informants, and both were involved heavily in the abuse of mind-controlled slaves. Walt always generously supported Reagan’s political campaigns, and in turn Reagan did political favors for Walt as Gov. of California. For instance, Disney’s Mineral King mountain resort needed an access route through the Sequoia Nat. Park at a time when there was lots of congressional pressure to preserve the last stands of redwoods. Gov. Reagan got his friend Disney his road through the park.


First: NEITHER Reagan nor Disney were Masons. Only 14 US Presidents have been Freemasons, and the last was Gerald Ford. Walt was not a member either.

As to the bit “Reagan did political favors for Walt as Gov. of California” that would be real tough considering Walt died December 15th 1966 and Reagan wasn't inaugurated as governor of California until January 2nd, 1967, 18 days later.



posted on Feb, 21 2012 @ 01:47 AM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
KS has more titles than he could probably list in a single post!

LOL


Originally posted by Conspirus
Hmm, perhaps you need glasses then
jk.

My LASIK was doing so good too!

As I said, the origin of Freemasonry is not completely known. There is only speculation and theories.

reply to post by Conspirus
 

I'm sure Pike said a lot of things, but to say all of Freemasonry can be summed up using the numbered degree system of the Scottish Rite is not really accurate.

What do I know as a 32nd? Nothing that I really didn't already know. Going through the Reunion I was shocked to know just as much as the Venerable Master, and in some instances more than some of the members about the history of the Scottish Rite (somewhat due to the other ATS Masons here).

As Master Masons we are all equal. These other bodies and orders are not superior, but each impart their own lessons and usually stem from a theory of the founding of Masonry (damn that Chevalier Ramsay!). I know a lot of people won't join other bodies simply because they see the appendant bodies as too dividing.

I joined the York Rite because I was Christian and I was highly interested in the Chivalric Orders.

Bill Schnoebelen is a hypocritical liar; this can be proven by his own words. I go by sources that use rational thinking as well as what I've seen in my travels and experiences. Many anti-Masonic sites are based on hoaxes (such as Leo Taxil), religious bigotry, paranoid beliefs, and fascist tendencies.

Bill is a con artist who fabricates information to give himself credentials to bad mouth the very organizations he is said to have belonged to, but its too bad he can't actually back up anything he's said. Many of those things he said he belonged to would conflict each other and shows that he is not a very trustworthy man.



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